I cannot attend the Stanford meet, but plan on viewing via the Pac 12 Plus stream via Twitter. I was hoping to see Josa in action, but I guess we will have to wait until the January dual meets to see if Josa suits up.
Originally Posted by longseeker
Everyone, Josa is enrolled/taking classes at Cal this semester. He's listed in the UC Berkeley directory.
His absence from NCAA competition in the Fall is most likely due to academic eligibility. NCAA rules state that a student-athlete needs to complete at least 6 units in the preceding semester (summer school would count for purposes of the Spring semester) to be eligible to compete in the current semester. Generally, minimum progress is 24 units per academic year, with 40% of degree requirements (48 units) completed by the end of sophomore year. (Goes up to 60% by the end of junior year.)
Josa took a whole year off from NCAA competition at DII Queens to swim full-time with SwimMAC. Maybe he took a couple of classes in the Fall 2015 semester on his own, but I doubt it. For sure, he would not have taken classes in Spring 2016 while training for OTs in June. You might argue that he should have planned ahead and taken classes in Summer 2016, but for what --- the privilege of swimming in the Fall? Not a big deal and not a necessary use of personal money, especially if he'd have to pay part of Cal's out-of-state tuition on his own (remember, there are only 9.9 scholarships for the whole team of 31 swimmers & divers, so everyone likely pays some out-of-pocket). He's already a junior, and there just aren't that many upper division classes offered in most summer schools.
Josa's definitely training with the men's team and this upcoming meet in Italy is in SCM, so the coaches (and us fans) can convert his SCM times to SCY and see how they rank on the NCAA A/B cut continuum. He can travel with the team to Atlanta, and stay for Winter Nationals instead of hopping on the bus over to Athens. He will get NCAA qualifying times there and join the relays in the Spring.
For a look at who's training with the team, and to which lanes they were assigned, look at Scott Haeberle's recent Instagram post:
- 1: Murphy, Gutierrez, Kao, Coan
- 2: Seliskar, ?, Thomas, Takahashi
- 3: Forker, ? (Jensen?), Lileikis, Song
- 4: Xie, Young, Pebley, Prenot, ? (Shields?)
- 5: ? (Shields?), Williams, Cobleigh, Silverthorn
- 6: Whittle, Hoppe, Stevens, Lynch
- 7: Josa, Sand, Farrar, Arvidsson
- 8: Grigorishin, Sendyk, Haeberle
(Missing: Fiepke, Green, Norman. Also, no: Adrian, Coughlin, Franklin)
(Gwo and Vergani are not listed in the UC Berkeley directory, as we have discussed before. They are not enrolled at Cal, and they are absent from the online roster and the PDF press sheets handed out at meets. They are not coming in the Spring.)
Thanks, BB. Rightly and wrongly, barring injury always assume there's an eligibility issue when somebody doesn't formally compete for the Bears in the Fall. May be 'SC specific, but still don't get how Fall gray shirts actually benefit a program consistently.
I also wanted to mention that people might be thinking, "Well, [so-and-so] red-shirted to prepare for the Olympics. Why are they swimming this Fall?" Some quick examples come to mind:
- Condorelli (USC): He's staying at the same school, which meant USC's compliance officer kept tabs on him and probably arranged for him to do some independent study or online classes last Spring. That's why these compliance officers exist --- to make sure everyone follows the rules. Josa wasn't even a blip on Cal's compliance officer's radar until mid-Summer, when he announced his transfer. By the time they figured out the discrepancy, it was probably too late to retroactively create 6 units of independent study. Lot tougher at public universities where there are layers of bureaucracy to get everything approved in time.
- Runge (Wisconsin): She announced her transfer last summer, so W's compliance officer was again on the ball and probably had her follow the same arrangement as listed above.
- Manuel (Stanford): She took classes like a regular student during the Fall and Winter quarters, but didn't compete with the college team. I think she did not take any classes in the Spring quarter, which, I guess, was OK in the NCAA's eyes since a Winter quarter is in the 2016 calendar year.
And no, gray shirts might be a way to stretch out limited scholarship dollars, but they are a mixed bag in terms of actual helpfulness. Vissering was USC's most prominent gray-shirter last Fall. He was really promising in high school and swam well in the televised Cal @ USC meet last Spring. But NCAAs were not great for him, not to mention OTs. And, he recently got mentioned on Russia's Fancy Bears website (sigh). Just a huge whammy of bad luck. We'll see if he can turn it around with a full year of regular training.
Just converted Josa's SCM times to SCY (using the NCAA-approved conversion factor of 0.906):
Originally Posted by beaverbear
- 100 fly: 00:46.20 (NCAA B cut)
- 100 free: 00:44.52
- 200 IM: 01:45.62 (NCAA B cut)
Associated SwimSwam article below:
Detti And Paltrinieri Duel, While Josa Scores Win At Trofeo Nico Sapio
Bears Head To Stanford For Triple Distance Meet
11/1/2016 11:41 AM | By: Cal Athletics
Michael Thomas Has Gotten Off To A Strong Start In 2016-17 (Skip Stubba)
Just came back from the Triple Distance meet and our Bears looked great. Crowd was sparse but a small Cal contingency was visible and vocal. Cal even had a swim tailgate going just outside the pool. Very nice. Murphy swam and dominated all the back events. His 200 BK looked particularly impressive. If memory recalls, he went 1:41 something. We dominated the shorter events. The only area where we didn't look good was in the distance free. We were swept in both the 500 FR and 1000 FR but I don't think we swam our best swimmers in the event. Stanford had one swimmer who looked very good in the 1000 FR who lapped one of our Bears. One pool record broken in the 200Fly by a furd swimmer who was closely racing a Bear. Sorry, I can't remember their names. Waiting for the official results to be posted.
Thanks for the report. I've been following the results here:
Originally Posted by PalyBear
Norman didn't swim today; as long as he's healthy, we'll be fine in the distance events. Gutierrez and Green still haven't swum yet this Fall.
Seliskar also swept the IM events, so we had two triple event winners! I'll add up all the times and see who else might have "won" based on cumulative times.
Last edited by beaverbear; 11-02-2016 at 05:29 PM.
Reason: Nevermind .... mixed up 200 back and fly ....
I was also at the meet at Stanford's Avery Aquatic Center today. Only new pool record was Jimmy Yoder breaking Gary Umbach's 400IM mark. Both Seliskar and Murphy came very close in setting new pool marks, but I don't think it was a big deal because best marks are usually set in PAC12 and NCAAs.
As noted in posts here, Stanford continues to be strong in the distances and are now under the first year coaching of former great Stanford distance Alum Jeff Kostoff. Wonder if this is why we missed on Sweetser who is a talented 500/1000/1650 Frosh swimmer. Don't know how well Norman would have done today in the distances. Gutierrez would have scored well in the 200/500 had he swum today. As you all know the format for this competition was 50/100/200 free/fly/breast/back. Then 100/200/400 IM with 500/1000 ND 200 medley and 200 free relays. And the swimmers had to swim the same strokes in those events. Regardless, the meet went by quickly having started at 2pm albeit I still got stuck in traffic in Palo Alto on my way home to the East Bay.
Can't wait to see Josa in the Spring, and for the return of Norman and Gutierrez. From what I saw on the program roster today, Stanford had every one on their roster competing.
Cal parents in attendance today included the Arvidssons and the Lynchs. The latter couple set up a neat post meet party table after the meet ended. There were other Cal parents there, too, but I am not sure who they were.
I wasn't able to attend live, but did watch the live stream from Pac 12 Plus. Palybear and Longseeker covered main points. I would add that Pawel Sendyk turned in a nice time to win the 50 free and the stream commentator mentioned that Durden had identified Pawel as someone to keep an eye on. Seliskar is continuing to show steady progress from his fine first year and Murphy is simply golden.
Our breast depth is encouraging and i also thought our freshmen (Sendyk, Jensen, Song, Lileikis and Xie) did a nice job.
Norman may have broken up the Card's distance sweeps, but Shoults and Sweetser are beasts.
btw cheers to everyone here for all the smashing reporting & analysis!
Murphy Returns To NCAA Competition As Cal Takes On Stanford
USA Swimming: The good meet between @stanfordmswim vs @calmenswim today. Four #1 times in the country swum between the two teams. The Pac 12 is strong.
Stanford's Youtube channel had a video preview of yesterday's triple distance meet (just like Cal has these previews/recaps of the previous meet). I heard Ted Knapp say that because the Fall quarter this year is longer than previous years, they'll try to qualify as many guys to NCAAs as possible in December, rather than waiting until Pac-12s like they usually do. Obviously, this is the pattern typically followed by Cal men's and women's teams --- to use the mid-season invite to rest a bit and get some NCAA A cuts. So, be on the lookout to see how well their plan unfolds this year in terms of Pac-12s & NCAAs.
Also, because the triple distance meet is a rare clash of 200 frees between sprinters and distance swimmers, I thought it might be interesting to see how they split the races differently. 17 swimmers in total swam that race yesterday, and it was instructive to see how they approached the swim.
- Those that swim the distance with some regularity, and are good at it (placing in the top 8), all build their swims. That means the final 50 split is faster than the third 50 split. I included in this top group 4 from each school, 2 each of sprint/distance. These swimmers are: Jensen, Lileikis, Kao, Forker (Cal), Shoults, Sweetser, Perry, Cogswell (Stanford).
- Lileikis and Perry are both extreme back-half swimmers whose 2nd 100 is within 0.5 s of their 1st 100. They'd be great as relay anchors, but might need to be a bit faster to convince the coaches that they should be in those spots.
- Kao, Shoults, and Sweetser have that distance mindset where they pretty much keep the same gear throughout the race even though they know they want to sprint that last 50.
- Forker just needs to bring down that 3rd 50 a bit to match the group above; did he recently switch to distance? He is otherwise pretty consistent.
- Jensen and Cogswell are definitely front-half swimmers who are great in the first 50 due to their sprint backgrounds, but still have the endurance to not die in the last lap.
- (I'm going to talk about Fiepke for a bit. I noticed that he paced his swim similarly to Forker, with a slow 3rd 50 but a faster last 50 that is similar in time to his 2nd 50. I know he normally swims the sprints, and is graduating soon, but would he possibly consider swimming distance this year? What's his mix of fast- and slow-twitch?)
I mention this only because we'll probably need to figure out who's swimming the 4x200 free relay. For reference on who swam at NCAAs last year and is on this year's team:
- Gutierrez swims the 200 free like Murphy swims the 200 back --- fast 3rd 50 and holds on in the 4th 50. It's different from the patterns we just discussed, because everyone else is faster on that last 50.
- Seliskar swims the 200 free pretty evenly, unlike his 200 fly where he goes out really fast and has to hold on at the end.
It seems that the most likely candidates to join them on the relay are Jensen and Lileikis, but I could also see Josa or Kao make a push.
Most likely relay lineups that we'll see:
- 4x200 free: Gutierrez, Jensen, Lileikis, Seliskar
- 4x100 free: Gutierrez, Jensen, Lynch, Murphy
- 4x50 free: Jensen, Lynch, Murphy, Sendyk
We have so many good sprint free/fly swimmers that I can't choose between Gutierrez, Jensen, Josa, and Lynch for the back halves of the medley relays! Obviously, they'll be paired with Murphy and Hoppe.
Finally, Durden mentioned in his video that there might be some sort of exhibition swim at Spieker in a couple of weeks, just so they have one more racing opportunity before the UGA invitational; be on the lookout for that.
Georgia Fall Invite
Originally Posted by UrsusArctosCalifornicus
BEARS CLOSE FALL WITH GEORGIA ON THEIR MIND
1/29/2016 1:51 PM | By: Cal Athletics
Andrew Seliskar Will Look To Continue A Strong Start To 2016-17 In Georgia (Skip Stubbs)
BERKELEY - With winter fast approaching and the fall season nearly done, the Cal men's swimming team will take a cross-country trip in search of good competition and fast times as the Bears head to Athens, Ga. to compete in the Georgia Fall Invitational.
Last year, Cal made the same cross-country trek to begin the month of December and came home with a second-place finish as a team. Then-junior Ryan Murphy used the meet to excel in a variety of events, winning his usual 100 and 200-yard backstroke while also adding to Cal's wins in the 400 medley relay, 800 free relay and 400 free relay. Josh Prenot captured the 200 IM and 200 breast, Nick Norman won the 1,650 free and Justin Lynch won the 100 fly during a fast weekend of racing by the Golden Bears.
Several of those stars return for this year's squad and a variety of new faces have joined the fray looking to post their top times of the fall season. Murphy is back for his senior season and, after taking much of the fall off to recover from a busy summer, the three-time Olympic gold medalist will look to continue his training in his second competition of the season.
With a strong fall campaign already in the books, junior Justin Lynch stands a good chance of factoring heavily for the Bears this weekend. Lynch owns the team's top times in the 50 free, 100 fly and 200 fly as well as the squad's second-fastest mark in the 100 free.
Sophomore Andrew Seliskar established himself as one of the nation's most versatile swimmers last year, winning the Pac-12 Freshman/Newcomer of the Year award as well as being named Swimmer of the Meet at the Pac-12 Championships. He has also had a productive fall so far, setting the team's top times in the 200 and 400 IM and trailing only Lynch in the butterfly events.
In the breaststroke, junior Connor Hoppe and senior Hunter Cobleigh have enjoyed strong starts to the season with Hoppe swimming the team's top time in the 100 and Cobleigh doing the same in the 200. Sophomore Nick Norman has set the pace in both the 500 and 1,000 free while freshman Michael Jensen has emerged with the team's best marks in the 100 and 200 free.
Though the Georgia Fall Invitational brings one portion of the season to a close, the work won't stop for the Golden Bears. Cal hosts the annual Cal Invitational all-comers meet on Jan. 14 and 15 and returns to dual meet action on Jan. 20 and 21 at Arizona and Arizona State. USC pays a visit to Spieker Aquatics Complex for on Feb. 3 and the dual meet season concludes against Stanford in Berkeley on Feb. 18.
Thanks UAC for the great summary but also the Schedule.