There is also the benefit of tech workers of one company living close to other tech workers in general for several reasons:
Originally Posted by sycasey
1. There is general movement of tech workers between companies. Therefore an isolated tech company sitting far away from a large number of other companies is not attractive.
2. Technogical advances grow faster when tech people in one industry share ideas with other tech workers in that industry and in other industries.
3. The infrastructure for tech companies is better in urban areas is better than in isolated areas.
4. Young techies. Are still young people with all the same desires as other young people. Those desires are satisfied better in an urban area. Especially when they are paid well enough to indulge their desires.
This is what has driven the development of tech in places like SF and Oakland.
Not all techies are married with children or hermits.
BTW. I question your use of the word "friendly". If you mean "tax friendly". Lower taxes are only a part of the equation in what makes up a "friendly" Location. For many of us it is only a small part.
As for me, I get to live only one lifetime on Earth.
Why waste it by living in a place which is only your 2d, 3d or 4th choice.
Last edited by GivemTheAxe; 02-23-2017 at 08:13 AM.
I lived in the Tacoma area for almost 2 years. Weather is good if you like rain, rain, and more rain. On many "sunny" days it only drizzles. Definitely depressing for most people used to California sunshine.
Originally Posted by burritos
Admittedly on the true sunny days the area is hard to beat. But there were so few "true" sunny days (primarily between mid/late June to early September) that I could not wait to get out of there.
There is a completely different culture in the bay area than there is in many other places.
In the bay area I find people are far more loyal to each other than they are to their current employer. You will often find the same group of people working at different companies as they bounce around. Additionally, quality engineers are expected to move around a fair amount here. A lot of it is like buying lottery tickets. People in the silicon valley are trying to strike it big by being part of the next big thing...the next google. The best way to ensure that is to work at as many start ups as you can in an effort to be in the right place at the right time. Having to move all over the country to allow that just wouldn't work.
Its worth noting that a big part of the mentality of the silicon valley is that each startup you work at is a gamble. You are trying a new idea to see if it will sell or if there is any real need for it. Having a space like that where it is more or less ok to fail is why there is so much innovation here. Of the places that i have worked in the silicon valley the place with the best engineers, best management, and best working environment had the worst product and sold for the least. The engineering was so good that it allowed the subpar product to persist, but it wasn't going to make anyone an instant millionaire.
The place that worked at with the worst environment had the best product that sold for the most. The idea in and of itself was good enough/desired enough to get by without any polish on the product itself. With that in mind engineers know that it isn't the quality of their work that determines success in the start up industry, its the quality of the idea.
You actually see this a lot here. In the silicon valley its standard practice to create proof of concept products that barely work to prove interest in something without investing more time/money/people than you have to. Companies that work in this state sell for billions of dollars. In other industries going to market with an unfinished product can kill the company before it gets off the ground. Again...just a different mentality here.
Outside the bay area I find people tend to be more loyal to the company than each other. That makes a lot of sense if there aren't a lot of other similar jobs available in your area. As someone who has worked at a company that was ultimately acquired by someone outside the bay area twice there is often a culture shock for the acquiring company. They don't understand the bay area turn over / culture from a business standpoint and always seem shocked when there is turnover.
Moving from inside the bay area to outside the bay area to follow a company is a difficult proposition as well. If you are in the bay area and the company doesn't do well or you need a change of scenery here its no big deal, you find a job at another startup/company within easy commuting distance. If you follow one of those companies elsewhere you aren't going to have the same job opportunities that you will here. Do you really want to up and move to Denver to follow your job only to have to try to move back in 3 years? Moving back to the bay area after you get used to the cost of living elsewhere is an extremely difficult task as well. Several of us have friends who did follow that job elsewhere and were never able to come back.
My wife loves rain. Almost ended up there, but due to a little bit of fate, we ended in Socal. But had we ended up the Puget Sound area, my wife would have been in heaven. Plus because of cola delta amortized over 17 years and no state income taxes, we probably would have been rich by now.
Originally Posted by 68great
BTW, we kind of had this discussion almost 6 years ago, but WTH I'll bring it back:
Last edited by burritos; 02-23-2017 at 06:09 PM.
Yes, AT&T allowed WFH a decade ago. Then they outsourced their entire mainframe group to IBM. IBM said sure work from home your entire group is scattered all across the country. For the final 7 years of my tech career I worked from home. And then IBM, as if a collective light bulb went on, said if you can do your job from home we can get someone to do it from their, much cheaper home in Brazil. And within a month my job and that of my two co-workers was handed over to two cheaper and much less skilled WFHers across the world.
Originally Posted by Cal89
I hope your WFH experience goes better than mine.
LOL...did you feel like you stumbled onto the Furd board by mistake?
Originally Posted by dajo9
Of course, there are other desirable places to live--Seattle, Boston, etc.--and they do have burgeoning tech industries. But the places with cheaper labor, less traffic, more fast food are not where many more educated folk want to live. You can get cheap housing in rural Louisiana or Mississippi or Kentucky. Of course, you'll have to put up with pollution that is literally lethal in some places. The advantages of urban areas that have major universities and cultural institutions are significant. Entrepreneurs who generally have disposable income prefer places where there is something to spend it on.
Tax friendly =\= diversity friendly, and for some the latter is way more important.
Not to make it into politics, but if you don't look "traditionally American", chances are places that are more diverse like the Bay Area will make you feel safer and more comfortable. Tech companies have diverse employees that perhaps wouldn't feel as welcomed in other parts of the country unfortunately. I have a hard time thinking that those Garmin engineers that got shot in Kansas would have had the same fate here. I know that's an extreme and rare example, but just imagine everything else that happens to a less degree that would most likely not happen here.
I'm not trying to be a Bay Area snoot, but I think some people take this into consideration.
Last edited by ferCALgm2; 02-24-2017 at 09:18 AM.
I doubt that. My brother is a senior partner at an A+ level LA law firm and he and I both joke that as native Texans, we recognize that living in California comes with a resort fee akin to that in a five-star hotel. Apple, Oracle, and many other hugely successful companies know that Silicon Valley is home base for the tech world as LA is home base for entertainment. Manufacturing is mainly outsourced in both industries to other states or countries, but the research and brain trust remain where the very best and brightest want to live.
Originally Posted by Goobear
If you like rain, Seatle is a great location. To each his/her own.
Originally Posted by burritos
So is Northern California, right? It's all relative I suppose. I'm starting to hear grumblings down here in socal about how there is too much rain. To me, it's not enough.
Originally Posted by GivemTheAxe
True Blue Golden Bear
Only about every five years or so.
Originally Posted by burritos
Is that where all these "on the line" companies are?
Originally Posted by MrGPAC
I haven't heard it referred to as THE Silicon Valley. Reminded me of Vince Vaughn's character; just poking fun!
What percentage of Silicon Tech companies is made up of Southeast Asians/Arabs/Persians/Anyone proximate to the Middle East(ie:Greeks)/Africans?
The man, Adam Purinton, 51, of Olathe, is scheduled to appear in court Monday. He has been charged with first-degree murder and first-degree attempted murder. According to witnesses, Purinton yelled "get out of my country" at two 32-year-old Indian men, Srinivas Kuchibhotla and Alok Madasani, before he opened fire at Austin's Bar and Grill in the Kansas City suburb on Wednesday evening.
Kuchibhotla was killed and Madasani injured. The two had come to the U.S. from India to study, and they worked as engineers at GPS-maker Garmin. A third patron, Ian Grillot, 24, was wounded when he tried to intervene.
Not that everyone in the Red states are like this, but there are a few highly volatile drunk/out of luck/armed/Trumpsters who can't tell the difference. You could be just on your merry way at a bar/parking/barbershop and your life could just end because you "look" muslim. From a statistical point of view a fear of this is improbability would be considered irrational. But do you think the value added engineers of the silicon valley want to be anywhere near flyover country with Trump dog whistling hatred about brown people for the next 8 years?
Last edited by burritos; 02-27-2017 at 01:21 PM.
Let me offer some anecdotal information about moving out to cheaper locales. I worked all of my career for aerospace companies in LA and the Bay Area, and here are some things I was told by friends who moved. Several companies moved their whole plants to lower cost locales (Lockheed from Burbank to Marietta, Hughes Aircraft from Canoga Park to Tucson, Honeywell from Minneapolis to Clearwater, FL) in the 90's with disasterous results. Within 2-3 years, the better people who I knew started moving back to California or north. The reason explained to me was essentially incompatibility with the politics and culture of the area the new plant site was located. Engineers who had the technical abilities either transferred to another subsidiary of the home company, or went to work for another company. Cost of living was less of an issue, while quality of life was a big deal. I can't prove it, but in each of the cases I mentioned, that division never fully recovered from the "brain drain" either before of after the move.