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Thread: guards

  1. #1

    guards

    Credit to Shocky1 who has posted similar sentiments on our men's board:

    We aren't going to beat a lot of good teams with crooked shooting. Maybe our perimeter players should put up 500 shots per day in the off-season. Off the catch, off the dribble, off a screen, pull up, step back, whatever else I didn't think of. After 10,000 shots they should get a little straighter.

    Maybe our coaches should look for a few players who already shoot straight. One of my fondest memories of Cal women's basketball was watching exemplary student-athlete Mikayla Lyles drain 4 threes to help us beat Stanford.

    We also need better rebounding from our guards and wings. When a shot goes up they should be screening someone and/or moving toward the ball rather than standing around or heading the other way. Brittany Boyd and Gabby Green provided great examples while Layshia Clarendon and Mikayla Lyles also hustled after rebounds. Next season we should have enough guards to rotate in and keep everyone fresh.

    #guardswin

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    Credit to Shocky1 who has posted similar sentiments on our men's board:

    We aren't going to beat a lot of good teams with crooked shooting. Maybe our perimeter players should put up 500 shots per day in the off-season. Off the catch, off the dribble, off a screen, pull up, step back, whatever else I didn't think of. After 10,000 shots they should get a little straighter.

    Maybe our coaches should look for a few players who already shoot straight. One of my fondest memories of Cal women's basketball was watching exemplary student-athlete Mikayla Lyles drain 4 threes to help us beat Stanford.

    We also need better rebounding from our guards and wings. When a shot goes up they should be screening someone and/or moving toward the ball rather than standing around or heading the other way. Brittany Boyd and Gabby Green provided great examples while Layshia Clarendon and Mikayla Lyles also hustled after rebounds. Next season we should have enough guards to rotate in and keep everyone fresh.

    #guardswin
    I wanted to see how crooked our shooters are so I thought I would compare them to someone who is probably not considered a crooked shooter - Kelsey Plum.

    If I compare Range to Plum, as freshmen Plum was 4% better overall and 14% better on 3's. As sophomores, they we very close (Range was 1% better overall and Plum was 3% better on 3's). As juniors, Plum was 1% better overall and the same on 3's.

    Comparing Cowling to Plum, Cowling was 10% better overall than Plum and 3% worse on 3's as freshmen. As sophomores, they were identical overall and Plum was 1% better on 3's. As juniors, Cowling was 4% better overall and 8% worse on 3's.

    Comparing Thomas to Plum, Plum was 1% better overall and 1% better on 3's. As sophomores, Plum was 4% better overall and 3% better on 3's.

    Comparing Davidson to Plum, as freshmen Davidson was 7% better than Plum overall and 3% better on 3's. As sophomores, Davidson was 5% better overall and 18% worse on 3's. As juniors, Davidson was 6% better overall and 4% worse on 3's.

    Overall one could argue that Range was as good a shooter in her sophomore and junior years as Plum. Cowling is a better overall shooter than Plum but worse than her on 3's. Plum is a slightly better shooter than Thomas but it is close. Davidson is a much better overall shooter than Plum but much worse on 3's.

    Also, Cowling, Thomas and Davidson are much better overall shooters than Ionescu, but Ionescu is a better at 3's than Cowling and Thomas and the same as Davidson as a freshman.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by GATC View Post
    I wanted to see how crooked our shooters are so I thought I would compare them to someone who is probably not considered a crooked shooter - Kelsey Plum.

    If I compare Range to Plum, as freshmen Plum was 4% better overall and 14% better on 3's. As sophomores, they we very close (Range was 1% better overall and Plum was 3% better on 3's). As juniors, Plum was 1% better overall and the same on 3's.

    Comparing Cowling to Plum, Cowling was 10% better overall than Plum and 3% worse on 3's as freshmen. As sophomores, they were identical overall and Plum was 1% better on 3's. As juniors, Cowling was 4% better overall and 8% worse on 3's.

    Comparing Thomas to Plum, Plum was 1% better overall and 1% better on 3's. As sophomores, Plum was 4% better overall and 3% better on 3's.

    Comparing Davidson to Plum, as freshmen Davidson was 7% better than Plum overall and 3% better on 3's. As sophomores, Davidson was 5% better overall and 18% worse on 3's. As juniors, Davidson was 6% better overall and 4% worse on 3's.

    Overall one could argue that Range was as good a shooter in her sophomore and junior years as Plum. Cowling is a better overall shooter than Plum but worse than her on 3's. Plum is a slightly better shooter than Thomas but it is close. Davidson is a much better overall shooter than Plum but much worse on 3's.

    Also, Cowling, Thomas and Davidson are much better overall shooters than Ionescu, but Ionescu is a better at 3's than Cowling and Thomas and the same as Davidson as a freshman.
    I think the difference is that Plum is obviously a reliable volume scorer who can get her own shot time after time after getting a ball screen, and who can also get a huge number of free throws in the process. There probably are many better pure shooters. But she scores, leads her team aggressively, and wins games.

  4. #4
    I think the difference is that Plum shoots her shots and Davidson, Thomas et al don't.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GATC View Post
    I wanted to see how crooked our shooters are so I thought I would compare them to someone who is probably not considered a crooked shooter - Kelsey Plum.
    Shooting by our regular perimeter players in 2016-2017 conference games, not including the tournament:
    Code:
              FG%  3FG%   FT%
    Brown    .440  .333  .750
    Cayton   .426  .313  .567
    Cowling  .433  .226  .747
    Thomas   .379  .343  .813
    -------------------------
    Plum     .530  .412  .861
    I didn't include Davidson, who has played only forward, or Range, who has played mostly forward and has not looked healthy lately. Since the FG% includes a fair number of layups I think 3FG% is more indicative of shooting skills. For comparison consider TEAM 3FG% for the Pac-12 leaders:
    Code:
    Oregon        .381
    Washington    .374
    Oregon State  .371
    Stanford      .368
    Also consider that with Anigwe inside our outside shooters should be getting good looks.
    Last edited by stu; 03-03-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  6. #6
    It is very difficult to fix a broken shot at the college level. To make it work, those 500 shots a day need to be supervised for form corrections. It doesn't do any good -- in fact, it's a negative -- to continue to practice with bad form.

    I've always maintained that girls need to learn to shoot in middle school, as they start reaching their full growth. If the mechanics are locked in then, the years of repetition that follow will lead to consistency, which is the most important thing. Just as baseball pitchers talk about repeating their motion, so basketball shooters need to have a repeatable motion that is fundamentally sound. But if they spend their pre-college years going to the basket so their teams can win games -- and their parents are happy -- they have to be lucky to have good form.

    One big aspect of this whole issue, for Cal and everyone else, is that parents don't understand the game and their daughters' place in it. They spend their money on clubs and instead of demanding player development, they demand wins; they go to trainers, and instead of demanding skill development, they want the girls to come home tired and are happy that they are dribbling with two basketballs.

    As a result, very few players are functional shooters at the Power 5 level, as watching Cal and many, many others (we're looking at you, SEC) reveals.
    Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

  7. #7
    After watching the Oregon-Wash. game, did anyone compare our players with Bano of Ore.? She certainly looked like a straight shooter.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by roqmoq View Post
    After watching the Oregon-Wash. game, did anyone compare our players with Bano of Ore.? She certainly looked like a straight shooter.
    Bando killed us in Berkeley. She did even better last night against Washington (when she was defended mostly by another shooter, Natalie Romeo).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayK View Post
    I've always maintained that girls need to learn to shoot in middle school, as they start reaching their full growth.
    Excellent point from one who sees the results first-hand!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    Shooting by our regular perimeter players in 2016-2017 conference games, not including the tournament:
    Code:
              FG%  3FG%   FT%
    Brown    .440  .333  .750
    Cayton   .426  .313  .567
    Cowling  .433  .226  .747
    Thomas   .379  .343  .813
    -------------------------
    Plum     .530  .412  .861
    I didn't include Davidson, who has played only forward, or Range, who has played mostly forward and has not looked healthy lately. Since the FG% includes a fair number of layups I think 3FG% is more indicative of shooting skills. For comparison consider TEAM 3FG% for the Pac-12 leaders:
    Code:
    Oregon        .381
    Washington    .374
    Oregon State  .371
    Stanford      .368
    Also consider that with Anigwe inside our outside shooters should be getting good looks.
    I didn't use Plum's senior year as a comparison since I could only compare it to Range who is apparently injured this year. Plum had a great year and great career no doubt - one of the best in history. My point was that as great as she is, our players are not that far off. But bringing up Plum's senior year brings up another point - she has gotten better each year whereas our players have not improved and in some cases they have regressed.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by GATC View Post
    Plum had a great year and great career no doubt - one of the best in history. My point was that as great as she is, our players are not that far off.
    The numbers look pretty far off to me, but as you point out our players aren't seniors.

    But bringing up Plum's senior year brings up another point - she has gotten better each year whereas our players have not improved and in some cases they have regressed.
    We have only 2 perimeter players who've been here more than a year. For all games (I can't find past conference stats):
    Code:
    Cowling  14-15  15-16  16-17
    FG%      .493   .430   .448
    3FG%     .338   .390   .253
    FT%      .678   .539   .765
    
    Thomas   14-15  15-16  16-17
    FG%       ---   .379   .394
    3FG%      ---   .358   .373
    FT%       ---   .778   .774
    Cowling is all over the place, Thomas has improved slightly, no data for Brown or Cayton. I'll wait till next year to comment further. Well, next hour. But I'll wait a year to draw conclusions.
    Last edited by stu; 03-04-2017 at 05:20 PM.

  12. #12
    Looks like Cowling has spent too much energy on ball handling duties and not enough energy attacking the basket. Hope that she is back full-time at the wing next year.
    Last edited by annarborbear; 03-04-2017 at 04:48 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by annarborbear View Post
    Looks like Cowling has spent too much energy on ball handling duties and not enough energy attacking the basket. Hopes that she is back full-time at the wing next year:
    I agree with that 100%.

    More data, from perimeter players no longer with us:
    Code:
    Jefflo  13-14  14-15  15-16
    2FG%    .321   .382    ---
    3FG%    .209   .324    ---
    FT%     .553   .597    ---
    
    Green   13-14  14-15  15-16
    2FG%     ---   .337   .291
    3FG%     ---   .294   .229
    FT%      ---   .581   .471
    Looks like Jefflo improved but Green got worse. FWIW I don't consider any of those numbers to be good, but both were very good defensive players.

  14. #14
    UCLA and OSU are within 1 point midway in the 3rd quarter, UCLA is shooting less than 10% on 3's and OSU less than 20% on 3's. OSU is out rebounding them 35-20 so far. Pretty close game. They are holding Gulich in check.

    I don't know why we can beat UCLA or play very well against them and we get over whelmed by OSU every time.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GATC View Post
    I don't know why we can beat UCLA or play very well against them and we get over whelmed by OSU every time.
    IMHO Oregon State is better organized and has better shooters. Canada was amazing but, like Anigwe, couldn't do it all herself.

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