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Thread: Off-Season: Comfort Vs. Shake-Up

  1. #16

    Why I hate automatic correction

    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    Some typos stand out more than others.
    OTOH, it does provide some thought provoking.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GOCAL73 View Post
    How about a new head coach that can actually put a team on the floor that look like they know what the hell they are doing out there? Before you all tell me I'm overreacting, look around the Pac-12. Not like it was a few years ago. there are a bunch of excellent coaches in this league. If Cal wants to keep up Mike Williams better do the honest analysis. If that means a head coaching change then get with it! He might want to go after the OSU or UW coaches for starters. Getting Graves away from Oregon won't happen, but those other two might find Cal tempting.
    Especially since Oregon State is paying Rueck third world country pay. That is he is one of the lowest paid coaches verses the success that he has had compared to anyone in the country.

    And OSU will have a downward trending team without weise next year. Can he be bought?

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    And OSU will have a downward trending team without weise next year. Can he be bought?
    OSU will lose Wiese, Hanson, and Orum but will have plenty of talent returning as well as 2 top-100 freshies. And AFAIK Rueck loves OSU, his alma mater.

  4. #19
    Rueck and Tara look to be the cream of the coaching crop in the Pac-12.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    OSU will lose Wiese, Hanson, and Orum but will have plenty of talent returning as well as 2 top-100 freshies. And AFAIK Rueck loves OSU, his alma mater.
    Wiese is just a franchise player. Without her this year they would have had at least five more losses. Even with the returning talent and incoming talent there is no way they wont miss her. She was the glue that held that team together and it was more than just her talent alone. It was her leadership on the court that is hard to duplicate. That type of recruit does not come along every year as we all know.

    So, I don't see them as repeats next year.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    OSU will lose Wiese, Hanson, and Orum but will have plenty of talent returning as well as 2 top-100 freshies. And AFAIK Rueck loves OSU, his alma mater.
    OSU is also bringing in 6'8" center Joanna Grymek who is the #2 JC player, #1 JC Center.

    They lost Jaime Weisner (the Pac12 player of the year), Ruth Hamblin and one other person I don't remember the year before and didn't miss a beat this year.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    Wiese is just a franchise player. Without her this year they would have had at least five more losses. Even with the returning talent and incoming talent there is no way they wont miss her. She was the glue that held that team together and it was more than just her talent alone. It was her leadership on the court that is hard to duplicate. That type of recruit does not come along every year as we all know.

    So, I don't see them as repeats next year.
    Wiese has been terrific all four years. A rare PG who it tall, can handle, and can shoot. I agree that OSU will now go through a rebuilding period. But great coaching will keep them competitive.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by annarborbear View Post
    I think that Lindsay is now facing a basic choice this off-season between “comfort” and “shake-up”. Some basic premises behind these two choices are:

    I. COMFORT

    Premise:

    - Coaching systems are fine. Just need a few more players and better execution from the players that we already have.

    Related Actions:

    - Tinker a bit, but no significant system changes
    - Keep the same coaching assistants
    - Wait for new players to arrive
    - Enjoy the contract extension through 2021, along with the new baby

    II. SHAKE-UP

    Premise:

    - A 10-26 conference record over the past two years shows that something is definitely wrong. Other coaches have caught up to this offensive system and know how to stop it.

    Related Actions:

    - Hire a senior coaching mentor to help evaluate the current situation and find a new offensive system
    - Make coaching assistant changes as necessary to implement that new system
    - Let the players know that there is going to be a shake-up, that everyone will have to re-earn their playing time, and that turnovers will now lead to bench time


    Unfortunately, my own bet is on comfort and denial.

    I am in the mindset that the head coach is 80% of the success but you just might be right it is much less. It is hard knowing what degree the assistant are involved with LG and the game plans. Here is a interesting inside article on the Husky and Duck game from an Oregon writers perspective. It shows the assistants involvement in formulating a game plan against the huskies.

    http://www.goducks.com/news/2017/3/4...px?path=wbball

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayK View Post
    It's possible that the two main new recruits will begin shifting the chemistry a bit ... both Kianna Smith and McKenzie Forbes bring attitudes to the team that maybe haven't been as present in the past.

    But this is just speculation, really ...
    Speculation, really -- as opposed to much of what poses as analysis on this board ;-)

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by 3Cats4CAL View Post
    I posted this question in the Cooper thread- wondering what people think about different coaches for our team?

    Would we have done better if our current roster had a different coach/coaching staff? How much further would the Bears had advanced or individual players improve if say Tara or someone else had been their coach? Would Tara, Graves, Rueck or evenIonescu's former HS coach have gotten the same results with our current team as is? Or is the problem mainly based on our current roster? Will just adding the new players next year make all the difference? Is that enough? Would a coaching change if it is even possible negatively impact our current/returning players and incoming recruits/commits? Would previous recruits like Plum and Ionescu have chosen Cal if we had a different coach or was it that hard for them to choose which school because they wanted to play for coach LG?
    Hmmm, no responses? I think the problem may be that you ask questions that are too tough, possibly even requiring some actual knowledge and analysis beyond mere speculation (see post above).

    Also, you seem willing to entertain too many variables and subtle nuances -- clearly you would do better to pose your query as a binary, all-or-nothing, black-and-white set of the only two possible choices, in order to gain more valuable insights into life in the real world.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
    Hmmm, no responses? I think the problem may be that you ask questions that are too tough, possibly even requiring some actual knowledge and analysis beyond mere speculation (see post above).

    Also, you seem willing to entertain too many variables and subtle nuances -- clearly you would do better to pose your query as a binary, all-or-nothing, black-and-white set of the only two possible choices, in order to gain more valuable insights into life in the real world.
    Thanks you're right. Ok- here is one simple question- do you think our current team would have done better if Tara, Graves or Rueck had been their coach?

  12. #27
    I think the Pac-12 is loaded with good coaches: Tara and Rueck may top the list, but Mike Neighbors went to the Final Four last year, Kelly Graves has resurrected a dead program at Oregon, Cori Close has elevated UCLA into national prominence, Charli Turner-Thorne was down this year but in the past has done a great job, J.R. Payne has revitalized Colorado, and even June Daugherty has made WSU respectable.

    There's little margin for error, as Cynthia Cooper-Dykes discovered, and schools that don't prioritize women's basketball (Arizona, anyone?) will struggle.

    So the real question is where does Lindsey fit on this list? When folks like Kathy Olivier were running programs, it was a lot easier to succeed, but with quality coaches come quality programs, and everyone has to improve every year. Hopefully LG will take some serious steps to upgrade the program at all levels, as it's pretty clear the present process isn't getting it done.
    Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayK View Post
    I think the Pac-12 is loaded with good coaches: Tara and Rueck may top the list, but Mike Neighbors went to the Final Four last year, Kelly Graves has resurrected a dead program at Oregon, Cori Close has elevated UCLA into national prominence, Charli Turner-Thorne was down this year but in the past has done a great job, J.R. Payne has revitalized Colorado, and even June Daugherty has made WSU respectable.

    There's little margin for error, as Cynthia Cooper-Dykes discovered, and schools that don't prioritize women's basketball (Arizona, anyone?) will struggle.

    So the real question is where does Lindsey fit on this list? When folks like Kathy Olivier were running programs, it was a lot easier to succeed, but with quality coaches come quality programs, and everyone has to improve every year. Hopefully LG will take some serious steps to upgrade the program at all levels, as it's pretty clear the present process isn't getting it done.
    Good post. That's 8 coaches right there and I doubt that anyone would argue with anything you wrote. I would add that Arizona has improved under 1st year coach Adia Barnes (who was an assistant to Mike Neighbors). They finished strong and were ahead of Oregon in the 4th quarter in the Pac12 Tournament.. Lynne Roberts (2nd year coach at Utah) certainly knows how to play us.

    In the conference we were 10th last year and tied for 7th this year (1 game above 4 teams tied for last). I like your last statement. That is what we are all hoping for.

  14. #29
    I'm curious to see what kind of impact Wendale Farrow can make as an assistant going into his second season with the Bears. He was added to the staff back in June. Bruin fans at the Pac-12 tournament were saying how much he is missed down there. He had a big impact on the Bruins' recruiting success.

  15. #30
    I certainly agree the Pac-12 has gotten tougher in recent years and I'm sure a lot of that improvement is attributable to better coaches. However I also see increasing emphasis on women's basketball in the Pac-12 and more good players staying home.

    I don't remember many complaints about our coaches when we made the Final Four, which represented national success not just conference success. So what happened? Have our coaches suddenly sunk to mediocrity? Clay once said something to the effect of getting a few good players will make the coach a genius. For example look at Todd Bozeman "coaching" Jason Kidd. IMHO we have suffered a reverse Bozeman where we have had to play two seasons with only two guards, both times one freshie and one soph. That situation is partly attributable to bad luck but also partly the fault of our coaches' recruiting strategy. We're now seeing a shift in that strategy toward more scholarship players and we're filling the guard spots. This is being done with deliberate speed rather than in a mad rush, so I'm expecting the improvement to be steady and sustainable though not necessarily immediate and dramatic.

    Our men's team has had some success filling roster holes with Ivy League grad transfers, though I don't know if there's enough talent in the women's game to make that feasible. Either way I think we're on the right track for next season - we'll have a more experienced and balanced roster along with coaches who have proven they can take us far into the NCAA Tournament.



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