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Thread: Wj's roster shake-up plus or minus.

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesaxe View Post
    Last I heard he was gone. Well, that was quick.
    That was quick. Less than an hour after I posted, I think.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecohen View Post
    There's an awful lot of "glass half empty" on this Board
    I'd take half empty at this point.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civil Bear View Post
    I'd take half empty at this point.
    There are some good pieces. Lets see how they fit before despair takes hold. And let's see how others progress before we write them off. And I think 2018 will be a good recruiting cycle.

    The glass is filling.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by parentswerebears View Post
    There are some good pieces. Lets see how they fit before despair takes hold. And let's see how others progress before we write them off. And I think 2018 will be a good recruiting cycle.

    The glass is filling.
    Adding Paris Austin filled a big need. Grades weren't good enough to come in with IR, but BSU did its job as a juco and PA improved his grades enough to transfer back to Cal. Will have 3/2 starting in 2018.

  5. #50
    Biggest plus: gaining Jones and losing Martin. Martin was the penultimate micro manager. Jones will let them play basketball. Martin tried to execute the floor game from the bench,

    PG: Moore was a scorer, not a real PG. Martin tried to make him a pass first PG and it did not work. By the end of the season he was neither a pass first PG or a scorer. Winston can be just as good.

    SG: Baker would have been a nice player to have. He was a high 3 star. Nowhere near a 5 star. Everybody overlooks the fact that he was a 33% shooter from three for his final 2 years in HS. Both Dyson and Sueing were better albeit they did not shoot many threes. 33% is not elite. 40% is. Dyson and Coleman will fill this spot nicely.

    SF: A healthy Bird is a big loss. Frequently we did not have a healthy Bird. Sueing will be a good player. Not a Bird at his best

    PF/C: Lee and Okoroh will be as good as Rabb/Rooks. They will hold their own with anyone in the Pac 12. This will be Lee's fifth year of basketball. Okoroh has been on an upward path every year. He is one of the better defenders and rebounders in the league. We could use Rooks for depth. Last season, when Rooks was hurt, Okoroh played more minutes and played his best basketball. He did not have to look to the bench and wonder when he would get pulled.

    Bench: Last year we had zero offense on the bench, This year, of the Sueing/Dyson/Coleman/Anticevich group, two will come aff the banch. We still need another player or two. If we get at least one, our bench will be a big plus. Davis is still a complete unknown. If he is no better than last year he is a bench sitter. If he takes a big step forward, he can be Lee's backup. Chauca will wave a towel.

    This group has all Summer and the early OOC schedule to get ready for the conference. They can be just as good as last year. Is Coleman anywhere near as good as the 26 pts he put up against Bakersfield? He is a wildcard. This coming year the starting SG spot is his to lose. He is probably better starting than coming off the bench.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by caltagjohnson View Post
    Biggest plus: gaining Jones and losing Martin. Martin was the penultimate micro manager. Jones will let them play basketball. Martin tried to execute the floor game from the bench,

    PG: Moore was a scorer, not a real PG. Martin tried to make him a pass first PG and it did not work. By the end of the season he was neither a pass first PG or a scorer. Winston can be just as good.

    SG: Baker would have been a nice player to have. He was a high 3 star. Nowhere near a 5 star. Everybody overlooks the fact that he was a 33% shooter from three for his final 2 years in HS. Both Dyson and Sueing were better albeit they did not shoot many threes. 33% is not elite. 40% is. Dyson and Coleman will fill this spot nicely.

    SF: A healthy Bird is a big loss. Frequently we did not have a healthy Bird. Sueing will be a good player. Not a Bird at his best

    PF/C: Lee and Okoroh will be as good as Rabb/Rooks. They will hold their own with anyone in the Pac 12. This will be Lee's fifth year of basketball. Okoroh has been on an upward path every year. He is one of the better defenders and rebounders in the league. We could use Rooks for depth. Last season, when Rooks was hurt, Okoroh played more minutes and played his best basketball. He did not have to look to the bench and wonder when he would get pulled.

    Bench: Last year we had zero offense on the bench, This year, of the Sueing/Dyson/Coleman/Anticevich group, two will come aff the banch. We still need another player or two. If we get at least one, our bench will be a big plus. Davis is still a complete unknown. If he is no better than last year he is a bench sitter. If he takes a big step forward, he can be Lee's backup. Chauca will wave a towel.

    This group has all Summer and the early OOC schedule to get ready for the conference. They can be just as good as last year. Is Coleman anywhere near as good as the 26 pts he put up against Bakersfield? He is a wildcard. This coming year the starting SG spot is his to lose. He is probably better starting than coming off the bench.
    I kind of think this team is going to be underrated. People are not expecting much- maybe in the 10-12 range in the league and I will bet that we will be better than that for sure.

  7. #52
    I think we will be in the top 6. The team is young and will be better at the end of the season than at the start. This is the opposite of the Martin era.

  8. #53
    Love the optimism. I assume it's based on something other than our current roster?

    - We have no PG
    - We have no outside shooting
    - We have only two big men
    - Lee, King, Dyson and Sueing are nice pieces but they are either role players (Lee - shotblocker, rebounder, transition offense; King - Defender, shotblocker) or true frosh.
    - If we're picked above 10th, I would be shocked. In terms of the narrative as to how we overachieve and get to sixth, it'd have to do with a stifling Louisville style defense that turns teams over, a massive jump in performance from Chauca and Coleman and either Dyson or Sueing would have to be strong Pac12 frosh of the year competitors.

    This thread is about plus and minus. We're clearly in a significant minus situation. Lost Rooks, Moore, Baker and Sarr. Added Winston, whose recruiting resume marked him as a marginal P5 recruit. So for 2017, it's a MASSIVE minus. For 2018, we've added Austin whose a nice piece. Beyond that, we have no one committed. We desperately need an immediately eligible veteran who can make three pointers for 2017 and then we need a strong 2018 class anchored by Jordan Brown. I like the staff's recruiting potential and can imagine a strong 2018 class. As for 2017, I think we all need to hold our noses.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by CalHoopFan View Post
    Love the optimism. I assume it's based on something other than our current roster?

    - We have no PG
    - We have no outside shooting
    - We have only two big men
    - Lee, King, Dyson and Sueing are nice pieces but they are either role players (Lee - shotblocker, rebounder, transition offense; King - Defender, shotblocker) or true frosh.
    - If we're picked above 10th, I would be shocked. In terms of the narrative as to how we overachieve and get to sixth, it'd have to do with a stifling Louisville style defense that turns teams over, a massive jump in performance from Chauca and Coleman and either Dyson or Sueing would have to be strong Pac12 frosh of the year competitors.

    This thread is about plus and minus. We're clearly in a significant minus situation. Lost Rooks, Moore, Baker and Sarr. Added Winston, whose recruiting resume marked him as a marginal P5 recruit. So for 2017, it's a MASSIVE minus. For 2018, we've added Austin whose a nice piece. Beyond that, we have no one committed. We desperately need an immediately eligible veteran who can make three pointers for 2017 and then we need a strong 2018 class anchored by Jordan Brown. I like the staff's recruiting potential and can imagine a strong 2018 class. As for 2017, I think we all need to hold our noses.
    Agree 100% and that ain't no glass-half-empty assessment.

  10. #55
    Calhoopfan, I can't get away from you. I put you on ignore when I was on Rivals. Then I left Rivals, but you followed me here. Hopefully, they have an ignore option. I am also on Scout. You are one of these sanctimonious, self appointed "experts". No sense in answering your post because I don't agree with anything you said. However, I will be at my courtside seat when the season starts and will enjoy it. Cal will have a good team and Jones and his staff will be excellent coaches. And I will again contribute $30,000 for the priviledge of sitting there and supporting the Excellence in Basketball Fund.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by caltagjohnson View Post
    Biggest plus: gaining Jones and losing Martin.
    I'm cautiously optimistic that Jones' prep and game coaching will be better than Martin's. The actual personnel change was Robertson and Walker for Martin and Webster, giving us two coaches who want to be at Cal for two who don't.

    Players we lost are Rooks, Moore, Baker, and possibly Sarr. I find it interesting that none of the four ended up with Martin - I interpret that as none of them wanted either to be at Cal or to be with Martin, only Baker would have stayed because he had signed a LOI. We've added two players, Winston and Paris, who clearly want to be at Cal. As with the coaches, I consider that a big plus.

  12. #57
    CHF, my post is my opinion. Period. Maybe no one agrees but that is ok. I put my money where my mouth is. Your posts are always "stated facts" as if they came to you as tablets from the mount.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by caltagjohnson View Post
    Calhoopfan, I can't get away from you. I put you on ignore when I was on Rivals. Then I left Rivals, but you followed me here. Hopefully, they have an ignore option. I am also on Scout. You are one of these sanctimonious, self appointed "experts". No sense in answering your post because I don't agree with anything you said. However, I will be at my courtside seat when the season starts and will enjoy it. Cal will have a good team and Jones and his staff will be excellent coaches. And I will again contribute $30,000 for the priviledge of sitting there and supporting the Excellence in Basketball Fund.
    There's no reason at all to attack CalHoopFan, who's been on here for nearly a decade or maybe more (I've been on this forum since 2005 and lurked on cyberbears when it was on Scout). If you want to be overwhelmingly optimistic about the outlook of next season's team, you have every right. You'll likely find others here that agree with you. For the people that disagree, it does not mean we want Cal to fail or be bad next season. Most here, myself included, hope next season is surprisingly (and it would be a surprise) good.
    Last edited by tsubamoto2001; 05-18-2017 at 12:00 PM.

  14. #59
    Dyson, Winston, Sueing and Anticevich are all top students and wanted to be at Cal. Winston is a 4.0 with some college credits. Sueing's goal is to become a surgeon. The 3.0 GPA requirement was no hurdle for any of these guys. Kudos to Paris for getting his academic record up to Cal level. I am fully on board with the 3.0 requirement. As a non athlete you need a 4.0 to get in Cal.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by caltagjohnson View Post
    CHF, my post is my opinion. Period. Maybe no one agrees but that is ok. I put my money where my mouth is. Your posts are always "stated facts" as if they came to you as tablets from the mount.
    I'm glad you're optimistic and support the program. I agree that going from Martin to Jones will be positive. Some rolling of the dice involved, with Jones, but I like his chances and it was probably the best we could do, given our situation.

    Finishing 6th or better in the conference this season? That would be amazing, given the roster, I think. But let's put Lee and Okoroh out on the court and make our opponents try and deal with them!

    Hey, keep posting here: We need more basketball (and football) posts!

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