Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 42 of 42

Thread: Game Theory and Trump: Haas Style

  1. #31
    Here at the tax march in Washington DC. Guy here with a Cal hat and sign that says "Free the NOL's". That kind of higher level signage makes me proud of Cal.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by dajo9 View Post
    Here at the tax march in Washington DC. Guy here with a Cal hat and sign that says "Free the NOL's". That kind of higher level signage makes me proud of Cal.
    I hear you. Though Trump's business is a privately held consolidated corporate structure, with about $9 billion in revenues and 20K plus employees. So its: "Free the ELA's." You want to really know what is going on, look at his business returns. Some interesting potenetial issues:

    1) There are 36 "mini-Trumps", as Forbes termed, which are the domestic and international partners -- often described as "billionaires" -- with whom The Trump Organization has worked over the years. Some of them may be leaders of countries
    2) Most of Trump's expenses probably were paid by the corporation
    3) He may not be drawing huge salary or other income out, so his personal income tax returns would lead to a conclusion he is personally is not worth that much (see number 2 about who pays his expenses), as the leaked page of the return suggested. With $9 billion in revenues each year, Trump s/b making way more income and paying way more taxes.
    4) Trump Inc may not own many projects named Trump, and instead has a royalty for the name Trump
    5)Trump's stock portfolio is in the corporation and likely includes investments in hedge funds run by democrats he has criticized.

    One thing the personal returns would show supposedly is speaking fees. Make an interesting comparison to Clinton. But you want the good stuff, go after the corporate consolldated return.

  3. #33
    I think the mistake pollsters made, and it was understandable, was the expectation that if a voter went to the polls in a presidential election, they would make a choice for President. In 14 states 2.4 million voters voted for US Senator but did not vote for President. Frequently elections are lost by a poor turnout, but this may have been the first decided by voters at the polls not casting a ballot for President even though they "voted". I've seen some stories saying Clinton would have won with 22,000 more votes in Key States. I suspect that those 2.4 million abstentions were far more important and ignored by the pollsters and their predictive models.

    Quote Originally Posted by Go!Bears View Post
    None of the polls were "wrong" per se. You get what you pay for. State polls are often not done with the same investment as national polls and so they get a lower quality data. Garbage in, garbage out. If there was a mistake it was putting faith in polls you should know will be unreliable.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
    I hear you. Though Trump's business is a privately held consolidated corporate structure, with about $9 billion in revenues and 20K plus employees. So its: "Free the ELA's." You want to really know what is going on, look at his business returns. Some interesting potenetial issues:

    1) There are 36 "mini-Trumps", as Forbes termed, which are the domestic and international partners -- often described as "billionaires" -- with whom The Trump Organization has worked over the years. Some of them may be leaders of countries
    2) Most of Trump's expenses probably were paid by the corporation
    3) He may not be drawing huge salary or other income out, so his personal income tax returns would lead to a conclusion he is personally is not worth that much (see number 2 about who pays his expenses), as the leaked page of the return suggested. With $9 billion in revenues each year, Trump s/b making way more income and paying way more taxes.
    4) Trump Inc may not own many projects named Trump, and instead has a royalty for the name Trump
    5)Trump's stock portfolio is in the corporation and likely includes investments in hedge funds run by democrats he has criticized.

    One thing the personal returns would show supposedly is speaking fees. Make an interesting comparison to Clinton. But you want the good stuff, go after the corporate consolldated return.
    You shouldn't take the protests literally but you should take them seriously

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by dajo9 View Post
    You shouldn't take the protests literally but you should take them seriously
    Of course.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
    You want to really know what is going on, look at his business returns.
    I was curious about this. If he was getting big loans from Russians, they wouldn't have been personal loans, right? I always thought the main reason Trump doesn't want his personal returns made public is that they would make him appear to be worth far less than the $10B he claims to be worth.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TouchedTheAxeIn82 View Post
    I was curious about this. If he was getting big loans from Russians, they wouldn't have been personal loans, right? I always thought the main reason Trump doesn't want his personal returns made public is that they would make him appear to be worth far less than the $10B he claims to be worth.
    You can't assess once net worth by looking at income tax returns. Thought Cal people would know this. Look at Tesla's income tax return. I rest my case!

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Goobear View Post
    You can't assess once net worth by looking at income tax returns. Thought Cal people would know this. Look at Tesla's income tax return. I rest my case!
    You can learn a lot about somebody's net worth by looking at the income generated by their assets. Probably enough to call bullshit on Trump's $10 billion claim.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by dajo9 View Post
    You can learn a lot about somebody's net worth by looking at the income generated by their assets. Probably enough to call bullshit on Trump's $10 billion claim.
    Sorry not true for those who own appreciated assets.. Especially with appreciated unrealized real estate gains. Again Tesla profit and loss statement indicative of market value i.e. Net worth? I think not...

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Goobear View Post
    Sorry not true for those who own appreciated assets.. Especially with appreciated unrealized real estate gains. Again Tesla profit and loss statement indicative of market value i.e. Net worth? I think not...
    That is true certainly true with your standard business. The balance sheet in the corporate tax return on any large company is based on GAAP, which has very little to do with actual value. With commercial real estate assets, I can get a fairly good idea of value by revenue stream and market cap rates (less true on resort properties btw), and I assume the preponderance of Trump Inc's assets are real estate assets (I could be wrong).

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
    That is true certainly true with your standard business. The balance sheet in the corporate tax return on any large company is based on GAAP, which has very little to do with actual value. With commercial real estate assets, I can get a fairly good idea of value by revenue stream and market cap rates (less true on resort properties btw), and I assume the preponderance of Trump Inc's assets are real estate assets (I could be wrong).
    Wife you know cap rates and sometimes they cannot get you there. Maybe you can come up with Gross Values but how about debts and other busines assets and stock holdings. I have prepared thousands of returns and can tell you it's far from accurate. If it was easy the IRS could do estate tax returns by itself and would not require appraisals and valuation opinions.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Goobear View Post
    Wife you know cap rates and sometimes they cannot get you there. Maybe you can come up with Gross Values but how about debts and other busines assets and stock holdings. I have prepared thousands of returns and can tell you it's far from accurate. If it was easy the IRS could do estate tax returns by itself and would not require appraisals and valuation opinions.

    I don't disagree. And there are many more variable like guarantees, contingent liabilities, etc. But I think Dajo is looking for a major ball park assessment here, not precision. There will be a huge difference in clash flow (which I can calculate roughly from Schedule M-1) and debts (which I can get roughly based on reported interest expense ) from real estate worth a net 10 billion versus say 1 billion. Clearly, I can't get that accurate if we are talking 10 vs 8 billion of net value.

    The best way to get net value is to get a list of the properties, do a title search for mortgages, and give same to local commercial brokers. But corporate tax returns don't have that type of detail.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •