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Thread: Have to disagree

  1. #16
    I don't think anyone is willing to give JW a "free pass". I do think that most people expect improvement across the board - better D and ST play and a more balanced O. Translating that type of improvement into a specific number of wins is problematic due to the very tough schedule. I am guessing 4 or 5....

    Besides Wilcox isn't a whiner like his predecessor. Dykes was an embarrassment on the sidelines....

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 1979bear View Post
    Wilcox can't be worse than Dykes and won't be. Dykes was allowed all sorts of excuses for his failures, Twenty years from now he'll still have the worst season in history and thankfully no one will still offer up the excuses for his excessively bad coaching. Wilcox👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
    Well said. Agree 100%.

  3. #18
    I was and continue to be excited by the Wilcox hiring. Two of our three most successful coaches in the post-Waldorf had no head coaching experience but were respected assistants: Mike White and Jeff Tedford. Sure, Bruce Snyder had head coaching experience, but so did Marv Levy, Keith Gilbertson, and Sonny Dykes.

    Of course, I would rather have had Petersen, but he wasn't going to come to Cal.

  4. #19
    I'm really looking forward to football season. Wasn't really excited last year. Hopefully we won't have to go through a year 0 under Wilcox. I'd like to think that there's some talent on the team... at least on offense. And that better coaching will pay dividends on defense.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Meister Petz View Post
    I'm really looking forward to football season. Wasn't really excited last year. Hopefully we won't have to go through a year 0 under Wilcox. I'd like to think that there's some talent on the team... at least on offense. And that better coaching will pay dividends on defense.
    Sounds like rather than trying to win with a tripped up offense that compromised us defensively, we are moving forward with good coaching and teaching to improve fundamentals across the board.

  6. #21
    It's pretty clear that the University doesn't care about our revenue sports being anything more than mediocre.
    Over the past 25 years, we hired one MBB coach (Monty) who had any potential of being better than mediocre, and they gave him zero support on the recruiting end.
    Since then it's been "hire small," then "hire smaller." Hiring Jones shows the University doesn't care about MBB, just field a team and to hell with building a program.
    In FB, people like to point to Tedford, but he never won the Pac 12 and usually got 8 wins, which is about at the level of Leach at WSU. Since then the hiring pattern has been "hire small."
    They made a half-hearted effort for Petersen, then settled on Dykes and refused to back him up on assistants. Then they hired Wilcox and again refused to give him what he asked for re. assistants.

    It's clear, after 50 years of the same pattern, nothing is ever going to change. "Success" in football is 8 wins and a bowl, or 7 wins + a bowl win. "Success" in MBB is sometimes making the Dance. That's it. There's zero hope of the programs ever escaping that level of mediocrity. Maybe on a rare year the MBB team will get lucky and make the Sweet Sixteen. Maybe once in a blue moon the FB team will win *10* games and still be light years from a conference championship. Most of the time the teams will never get close to that level and often the teams will have losing/ .500 seasons.

    It's been like this for generations and nothing going on now indicates it will change. Hope is a waste of energy. The teams are what they are and most people don't get excited over a commitment to .500 athletics.

    Guarantee - if Wilcox or Jones somehow break out of the mediocre box, they'll be gone and Cal won't fight to keep them. And the next coach will be another no-name assistant or minor league coach with hope as his resume.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Uthaithani View Post
    It's pretty clear that the University doesn't care about our revenue sports being anything more than mediocre.
    Over the past 25 years, we hired one MBB coach (Monty) who had any potential of being better than mediocre, and they gave him zero support on the recruiting end.
    Since then it's been "hire small," then "hire smaller." Hiring Jones shows the University doesn't care about MBB, just field a team and to hell with building a program.
    In FB, people like to point to Tedford, but he never won the Pac 12 and usually got 8 wins, which is about at the level of Leach at WSU. Since then the hiring pattern has been "hire small."
    They made a half-hearted effort for Petersen, then settled on Dykes and refused to back him up on assistants. Then they hired Wilcox and again refused to give him what he asked for re. assistants.

    It's clear, after 50 years of the same pattern, nothing is ever going to change. "Success" in football is 8 wins and a bowl, or 7 wins + a bowl win. "Success" in MBB is sometimes making the Dance. That's it. There's zero hope of the programs ever escaping that level of mediocrity. Maybe on a rare year the MBB team will get lucky and make the Sweet Sixteen. Maybe once in a blue moon the FB team will win *10* games and still be light years from a conference championship. Most of the time the teams will never get close to that level and often the teams will have losing/ .500 seasons.

    It's been like this for generations and nothing going on now indicates it will change. Hope is a waste of energy. The teams are what they are and most people don't get excited over a commitment to .500 athletics.

    Guarantee - if Wilcox or Jones somehow break out of the mediocre box, they'll be gone and Cal won't fight to keep them. And the next coach will be another no-name assistant or minor league coach with hope as his resume.

    Fight On!
    fify

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Uthaithani View Post
    ...Then they hired Wilcox and again refused to give him what he asked for re. assistants...
    I did not know this. Is this true? Seems like we got some pretty good assistants.

    I have no idea how well Wilcox's teams will do, so I personally am in wait and see mode (but will continue to be a ESP donor!). But any optimism that I've noticed around Wilcox prior to the season seems to be largely related to his ability to get assistants such as Baldwin, Greatwood and Azzinaro (sp?) who are all well-regarded. Of course the proof is in the results, but I did not know that we didn't give Wilcox what he needed for his assistants.

  9. #24
    The bashing of some posters is at best disheartening and laughable.

    Agreed with the earlier poster who said that the Wilcox hire is comparable to the Tedford hire. iirc, Tedford brought aboard a nice mixture of veteran and less experienced assistants. The biggest difference is the talent Wilcox inherits with less than a month to bring in his own recruits (without perhaps some serious tampering). On defense overall and the offensive line, there is a lack of elite talent and depth.

    Most fellow alums I speak with are down about the administration (including IA) for how messy things have been overall for the last decade plus (not exactly chronological):
    - stadium remodel & financing;
    - threatening to cut baseball, rugby, etc.;
    - academic and on field performance collapse under Tedford;
    - the inconsistency of baseball;
    - lackluster hire of Dykes (partial blame due to the toxicity of the program at that time - academics in particular);
    - cloudy circumstances under which Corso left the women's water polo team and the length of time it took to bring on Coralie that left about as much time to close the recruiting class as Wilcox has just gotten;
    - CM's underperformance and complete incompetence in balancing the classes - even when NO ONE expected Ivan to come back for a second year;
    - once CM left the above was certainly a factor in attracting the top talent to coach
    - the continued looming debt and the ever increasing disparity between the Pac 12 and the other P5 conferences' TV revenue (SEC & B10 in particular);
    - the seeming inability of the IA to generate any positive buzz about athletics@Cal (Rugby, Tennis, M&W Swimming, Men's Water Polo, M&W Crew, Women's BBall)
    - any others I'm missing?

    All of this contributes to a degree of pessimism that is higher than I've ever experienced in my 4 decades of following Cal.

    In years/decades past, I would see a lot more enthusiasm for the Wilcox hire...while I actually think that the staff he's assembled is better than Tedford's original staff, the talent level is such that expectations are very low for this fall.

    It may sound like a broken record, but, again, my judgement will be based on how much more competitive football is across the board - whether it's 3 wins or 6...or more. Basketball may require holding judgement until the year following because the talent cupboard is even more bare.

  10. #25
    Loyal Bear barabbas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakbear View Post
    "Cal Athletics wanted to save money, period. While both guys may do some good things for Cal, these two hires don't come with anything near the excitement we had when Dykes and Martin were first brought on board. With Dykes, we had the pipe dream of the Bear Raid. With Martin, we had someone who was red hot with success at Tennessee.
    There was NO excitement when Sonny was hired; I don't know what alternate universe you're in? There was some capital left in the hearts of Cal fans after the Tedford regime; Sonny drained the swamp in that regard. If "they" were out to save money, they would have kept Sonny and hired Decuire after Monty retired. The administration overruled the AD, Barbour, and was willing to pay Cuonzo 1.5 million more annually than they would have had to pay DeCuire

  11. #26
    i disagree with Uthi, if wilcox is successful, they'll pay him and keep him just like they did with Tedford. The issue with Cal will be if they pay for all the other things that allow for a coach to be successful or continue their success, ie. assistant coaches, academic support, recruiting budget.

    I'd like to think Cal has learned their lesson with the systematic dismantling of JT by going cheap on the academic support, but you never know, Cal historically has always operated with the mindset of a penny wise, a pound foolish.
    Last edited by gobears725; 04-17-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by 91Cal View Post
    The bashing of some posters is at best disheartening and laughable.

    Agreed with the earlier poster who said that the Wilcox hire is comparable to the Tedford hire. iirc, Tedford brought aboard a nice mixture of veteran and less experienced assistants. The biggest difference is the talent Wilcox inherits with less than a month to bring in his own recruits (without perhaps some serious tampering). On defense overall and the offensive line, there is a lack of elite talent and depth.

    Most fellow alums I speak with are down about the administration (including IA) for how messy things have been overall for the last decade plus (not exactly chronological):
    - stadium remodel & financing;
    - threatening to cut baseball, rugby, etc.;
    - academic and on field performance collapse under Tedford;
    - the inconsistency of baseball;
    - lackluster hire of Dykes (partial blame due to the toxicity of the program at that time - academics in particular);
    - cloudy circumstances under which Corso left the women's water polo team and the length of time it took to bring on Coralie that left about as much time to close the recruiting class as Wilcox has just gotten;
    - CM's underperformance and complete incompetence in balancing the classes - even when NO ONE expected Ivan to come back for a second year;
    - once CM left the above was certainly a factor in attracting the top talent to coach
    - the continued looming debt and the ever increasing disparity between the Pac 12 and the other P5 conferences' TV revenue (SEC & B10 in particular);
    - the seeming inability of the IA to generate any positive buzz about athletics@Cal (Rugby, Tennis, M&W Swimming, Men's Water Polo, M&W Crew, Women's BBall)
    - any others I'm missing?

    All of this contributes to a degree of pessimism that is higher than I've ever experienced in my 4 decades of following Cal.

    In years/decades past, I would see a lot more enthusiasm for the Wilcox hire...while I actually think that the staff he's assembled is better than Tedford's original staff, the talent level is such that expectations are very low for this fall.

    It may sound like a broken record, but, again, my judgement will be based on how much more competitive football is across the board - whether it's 3 wins or 6...or more. Basketball may require holding judgement until the year following because the talent cupboard is even more bare.
    The amount of games 7 PM PST or later Cal plays compared to other Pac 12 schools.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by gobears725 View Post
    i disagree with Uthi, if wilcox is successful, they'll pay him and keep him just like they did with Tedford. The issue with Cal will be if they pay for all the other things that allow for a coach to be successful or continue their success, ie. assistant coaches, academic support, recruiting budget
    That is my concern as well. We have proven with Tedford that the school and the donors will step up if they believe in the coach. However, it can't just be paying the head coach. It has to be a full dedication to a successful program, with resources for hiring and retaining the other coaches and providing for reasonable path for competing on a reasonably level playing field in recruiting.

    But I think part of the failure isn't just in hiring the right coaches. The main problem is in building a connection with the donors so that they have the money and will to hire the top coaches. Without building up the donor base and fan excitement, you can identify the right candidates...you just won't have the resources to hire them.
    Last edited by calbear93; 04-17-2017 at 11:20 AM.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Uthaithani View Post
    It's pretty clear that the University doesn't care about our revenue sports being anything more than mediocre.
    Over the past 25 years, we hired one MBB coach (Monty) who had any potential of being better than mediocre, and they gave him zero support on the recruiting end.
    Since then it's been "hire small," then "hire smaller." Hiring Jones shows the University doesn't care about MBB, just field a team and to hell with building a program.
    In FB, people like to point to Tedford, but he never won the Pac 12 and usually got 8 wins, which is about at the level of Leach at WSU. Since then the hiring pattern has been "hire small."
    They made a half-hearted effort for Petersen, then settled on Dykes and refused to back him up on assistants. Then they hired Wilcox and again refused to give him what he asked for re. assistants.

    It's clear, after 50 years of the same pattern, nothing is ever going to change. "Success" in football is 8 wins and a bowl, or 7 wins + a bowl win. "Success" in MBB is sometimes making the Dance. That's it. There's zero hope of the programs ever escaping that level of mediocrity. Maybe on a rare year the MBB team will get lucky and make the Sweet Sixteen. Maybe once in a blue moon the FB team will win *10* games and still be light years from a conference championship. Most of the time the teams will never get close to that level and often the teams will have losing/ .500 seasons.

    It's been like this for generations and nothing going on now indicates it will change. Hope is a waste of energy. The teams are what they are and most people don't get excited over a commitment to .500 athletics.

    Guarantee - if Wilcox or Jones somehow break out of the mediocre box, they'll be gone and Cal won't fight to keep them. And the next coach will be another no-name assistant or minor league coach with hope as his resume.
    Yup, I agree. My hope is gone!

  15. #30
    True Blue Golden Bear going4roses's Avatar
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    That mind state of "we will pay up when etc etc" is weak at best and clearly will not build a semi consistant championship program ever.

    Just spinning wheels on ice.

    Real programs have support staff that you can promote from within plus no pay restrictions (not to say just pay anything)




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