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Thread: Bowers vs. Forest - Who you got?

  1. #46
    True Blue Golden Bear going4roses's Avatar
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    Demeanor is one of the visible differences I have noticed.

    Either one will get the job done.

  2. #47
    With the loss of Wallace, Borrayo, Cochran and Moore, the Oline is going to be a challenge. For that reason, the QB with the best ability to escape the rush will probably be Baldwin's choice. That sounds like Bowers to me, unless the transfer becomes immediately eligible.

  3. #48
    True Blue Golden Bear going4roses's Avatar
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    Chase has gotten stronger and more comfortable in regards to mobility. Plus he has matured Physically.

    Whomever leads the offense just don't turn the ball over!!!

    just let the skill players do the work there are nice pieces

    And some defensive stability wouldnt hurt

  4. #49
    Loyal Bear Fyght4Cal's Avatar
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    Baldwin appears to favor an athlete at QB, who can run as well as he passes. To me, that means that Cal will likely have many more Black quarterbacks in the future than we've ever had in the past. I'm here for it. I hope our fanbase is ready for fundamental change.
    "Give 'em the axe. Where? Right in neck. There!"
    The California Axe Yell
    The proper response to, "We Want The Axe!"

  5. #50
    Still too early for me to have a reason to prefer one horse to the other. We only saw Forrest very sparsely and Bowers not at all (not counting practice). One of them is going to get the nod for opening day and then it'll be up to him to win the job on the field. If he struggles too much, the other guy will get a shot to win the job on the field. I'm just hoping at least one of them has it. I thought they both looked pretty good in the spring, but that's against our defense (which is just really starting to figure out how to play at all). Whoever wins the job is going to get whacked by all that FBS football can throw in the first half in the season. I really wish the season started at home vs Weber not @UNC at 9:30 AM PT.

  6. #51
    True Blue Golden Bear KoreAmBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cave Bear View Post
    Still too early for me to have a reason to prefer one horse to the other. We only saw Forrest very sparsely and Bowers not at all (not counting practice). One of them is going to get the nod for opening day and then it'll be up to him to win the job on the field. If he struggles too much, the other guy will get a shot to win the job on the field. I'm just hoping at least one of them has it. I thought they both looked pretty good in the spring, but that's against our defense (which is just really starting to figure out how to play at all). Whoever wins the job is going to get whacked by all that FBS football can throw in the first half in the season. I really wish the season started at home vs Weber not @UNC at 9:30 AM PT.
    Yah and we shouldn't discount Forrest just because Bowers seems to have more upside (read: he can run). I remember before the 1990 season, all of Berkeley (including fans, students, alums, coaches and the Daily Cal) were ready to crown Perry Klein as the new QB because he once went 46 for 49 at Palisades HS. We all knew Paws was a gamer, as he volunteered to be part of the kickoff team because he was bored. But we had no idea that he had some throwing skills. To the contrary, I remember the Daily Cal saying that Paws' throwing mechanics was one of a shot putter. Ouch. It didn't look good at all for him. Who knew that he would become one of the all-timers at the position.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by KoreAmBear View Post
    Yah and we shouldn't discount Forrest just because Bowers seems to have more upside (read: he can run). I remember before the 1990 season, all of Berkeley (including fans, students, alums, coaches and the Daily Cal) were ready to crown Perry Klein as the new QB because he once went 46 for 49 at Palisades HS. We all knew Paws was a gamer, as he volunteered to be part of the kickoff team because he was bored. But we had no idea that he had some throwing skills. To the contrary, I remember the Daily Cal saying that Paws' throwing mechanics was one of a shot putter. Ouch. It didn't look good at all for him. Who knew that he would become one of the all-timers at the position.
    Good example. Another one is Steve Levy and Joe Ayoob. If Ayoob hadn't been thought of going in as much more talented, Cal might have won an extra couple of games with Steve Levy at the helm all the way through the season after Longshore went down. UCLA, Oregon State and Oregon all should have been wins, and that would have made 2005 as spectacular a season as 2004.

  8. #53
    KoreAMBear - Good example. Who can forget the opening game in 1992 against SJS when Barr started and was brilliant, and then came Perry Klein. He threw an int but was a good enough athlete to run across the field and prevent a pick 6? Klein was the wrong guy in the wrong place twice in his career. He then transferred to CW Post for his senior year.

  9. #54
    The cupboard is not bare, the coaches have demonstrated ability, what is missing is confidence that comes with working together through a full season. Coaches probably 'break' more players than they create. Time will tell on that account, it seemed that was Sonny's problem, as well as Tedford's. Each had a system that the players had to conform to; the new staff seems more willing to accommodate each players strength into a team result. That is refreshing and encouraging. Like many, I played on teams in a lot of sports and saw a wide range of coaching talent. What was particularly dismaying was that only a few coaches ever paid attention to the players who made everyone better by their presence. Call them contributors, they aren't always stars, but the better teams seem to have them. When the games are played we will soon see which players make the team better.

  10. #55
    I trust Baldwin to make the right decision.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyght4Cal View Post
    Baldwin appears to favor an athlete at QB, who can run as well as he passes. To me, that means that Cal will likely have many more Black quarterbacks in the future than we've ever had in the past. I'm here for it. I hope our fanbase is ready for fundamental change.
    I really doubt that having a QB who runs as well as he passes would present a problem for the Cal fans. As long as he wins.

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Cave Bear View Post
    Good example. Another one is Steve Levy and Joe Ayoob. If Ayoob hadn't been thought of going in as much more talented, Cal might have won an extra couple of games with Steve Levy at the helm all the way through the season after Longshore went down. UCLA, Oregon State and Oregon all should have been wins, and that would have made 2005 as spectacular a season as 2004.
    Levy threw for barely over a hundred yards against Stanford, much of it coming on a jump ball that Desean came up with and took to the house. In the bowl game, the coaches devised a game plan that allowed him to just throw bubble screens and outs with a few heaves. They avoided throwing over the middle. Ayoob was much more talented. There were games that Ayoob lost, but there were also games that Levy would not have won that Ayoob did. The coaches were able to work around Levy's flaws for two games, but if they had put him in early in the season everyone would have seen that he couldn't throw to 80% of the field and we would have been doomed after a couple of games. The coaches knew we weren't in a good spot to begin with and were totally screwed once Longshore went down, but their only hope was to coach up the guy that had the skill set to develop into a viable QB.

    They needed to put in Levy when they did. I don't think Ayoob, at that point in the season, beats Stanford. But I don't think Levy beats Stanford (or a lot of other teams) if we played him from game 2 on.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by KoreAmBear View Post
    Yah and we shouldn't discount Forrest just because Bowers seems to have more upside (read: he can run). I remember before the 1990 season, all of Berkeley (including fans, students, alums, coaches and the Daily Cal) were ready to crown Perry Klein as the new QB because he once went 46 for 49 at Palisades HS. We all knew Paws was a gamer, as he volunteered to be part of the kickoff team because he was bored. But we had no idea that he had some throwing skills. To the contrary, I remember the Daily Cal saying that Paws' throwing mechanics was one of a shot putter. Ouch. It didn't look good at all for him. Who knew that he would become one of the all-timers at the position.
    From what I saw in the few practices that I attended and from the Spring "Game", Bowers appeared to have that "something extra" (and I don't mean just the ability to run). But Chase was not bad at all.

  14. #59
    I have very little knowledge about how well they throw, handoff, manage the line of scrimmage, but other things being equal I like more athletic QBs and I think Bowers is that

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by OaktownBear View Post
    Levy threw for barely over a hundred yards against Stanford, much of it coming on a jump ball that Desean came up with and took to the house. In the bowl game, the coaches devised a game plan that allowed him to just throw bubble screens and outs with a few heaves. They avoided throwing over the middle. Ayoob was much more talented. There were games that Ayoob lost, but there were also games that Levy would not have won that Ayoob did. The coaches were able to work around Levy's flaws for two games, but if they had put him in early in the season everyone would have seen that he couldn't throw to 80% of the field and we would have been doomed after a couple of games. The coaches knew we weren't in a good spot to begin with and were totally screwed once Longshore went down, but their only hope was to coach up the guy that had the skill set to develop into a viable QB.

    They needed to put in Levy when they did. I don't think Ayoob, at that point in the season, beats Stanford. But I don't think Levy beats Stanford (or a lot of other teams) if we played him from game 2 on.
    Which of the games they won with Ayoob do you think they would probably have lost with Levy? WSU was the only particularly close game that year (and that was one of Ayoob's better games).

    I think you have miscalculated the effect of having Levy as starter through the whole season. Stanford was both his first career start and his first week as starter in practice. I think being the starter the whole season would have allowed Levy to get better and more effective. The opportunity for development with the practice and playing time that comes with being the starter would have been the key to this. I think you're overstating the structural effect of having Levy as starter. They only let Ayoob throw 27 attempts per game when he was starter. It was going to be a conservative offense regardless of which of them was starter. The difference was Ayoob's game killing interceptions. That's what lost the OSU and UO games and that would not have happened with Levy.

    But I suppose you're not surprised at this opinion, since I had already declared Levy would have been superior. I'd be interested in how other Cal fans view/remember this.



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