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Thread: Tough to evaluate Murray

  1. #46
    Murray has the size and athleticism to become a solid defender. In one of his interviews he recognized he'll need to improve his defense at the next level. If this young man has the right attitude, I'm confident Monty and DeCuire can "coach-him-up" to become a capable D-1 defender.

  2. #47
    Mike Zillion
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by LafayetteBear View Post
    You don't need highlight film to evaluate 6'4". He may not be anything close to Jerome in terms of his outside jumper (I am just hoping for a decent shooting touch to compliment his dribble penetration and ball distribution skills), but he will certainly be a better defender than Randle.
    We have no way of knowing that, even allowing for the fact that Randle was pretty dreadful on that end. But even if he's not particularly good now, he may eventually become a decent defender. A lot of it has to do with how receptive he is to the coaching he'll receive. In Randle's case, part of it was that there wasn't much he could do once a guy got near the rim because he was smaller than everybody else, so he needed help there.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Zillion View Post
    We have no way of knowing that, even allowing for the fact that Randle was pretty dreadful on that end. But even if he's not particularly good now, he may eventually become a decent defender. A lot of it has to do with how receptive he is to the coaching he'll receive. In Randle's case, part of it was that there wasn't much he could do once a guy got near the rim because he was smaller than everybody else, so he needed help there.
    I didn't have any problems when opposing players shot over Randle.....it's when they blew by him like he wasn't even there that was bothersome. A guy 5'9" should be able to stay in front of pretty much anybody but Randle seem to give up a lot of uncontested layups.

  4. #49
    Mike Zillion
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by jyamada View Post
    I didn't have any problems when opposing players shot over Randle.....it's when they blew by him like he wasn't even there that was bothersome. A guy 5'9" should be able to stay in front of pretty much anybody but Randle seem to give up a lot of uncontested layups.
    I agree.

  5. #50
    ESPN Rates him an 89 and has this to say about him:

    April, 2010: Murray is a 6'3 combo guard who is more of a shooting guard than a true point. He can provide help at the 1 but is much more suited skill-wise to play the 2. He possesses high major athleticism which is the key to his whole game. An explosive athlete with a lightning quick first step, he does a great job of putting his head down and getting to the rim. Emerson is a good, not great, shooter who can be streaky out to the arc. He's a good rebounder from his guard spot and is a above averaged defender who can guard both the one and two. He'll need to hone his PG skills, especially his decision making, at the next level but he is a good ball handler who can help break a press. Murray missed most of his senior year with an ankle injury which caused a lot of High Major schools to fall off but he is regaining his explosiveness and could be a steal for the Golden Bears.
    http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recru...14&season=2010
    Last edited by SoCalBear323; 04-29-2010 at 02:21 PM.

  6. #51
    drunkoski
    Guest
    nice. thanks for the link socal

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by 6956bear View Post
    Murray likely would have had more offers had he not broken his ankle. He was unable to play until late in the season and many teams had their class of players already. Cal had a need and Murray was available and has potential to be sure. Some other schools started to get back involved, but the Spring signings almost always are for late bloomers, academic risks and JC guys.
    I'm sure the injury did hurt him but then again the early signing period (where 90% of recruits commit) occurs before or at the same time as the start of the high school basketball season. The big evaluation is junior year of HS + summer AAU play.

    Perhaps geography and a limited AAU schedule for Murray led to less exposure? The other factor is Gonzaga. Word is they were on him early and liked him a lot but backed off last Fall (perhaps as a result of his injury). It's possible other suitors saw him as a Gonzaga lock through the Fall signing period.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by GregRichardson View Post
    I'm sure the injury did hurt him but then again the early signing period (where 90% of recruits commit) occurs before or at the same time as the start of the high school basketball season. The big evaluation is junior year of HS + summer AAU play.

    Perhaps geography and a limited AAU schedule for Murray led to less exposure? The other factor is Gonzaga. Word is they were on him early and liked him a lot but backed off last Fall (perhaps as a result of his injury). It's possible other suitors saw him as a Gonzaga lock through the Fall signing period.
    I think the limited AAU exposure plays a big part in a lot of prospects' recruiting. Russell Westbrook was a guy that had very limited exposure and did not play for a well-known AAU team. Thus, he did not get any high-major offers until ASU and UCLA came in the Spring of 2006. (Keep in mind that this happened even though he played in the basketball hotbed of Los Angeles.)
    Last edited by tsubamoto2001; 04-29-2010 at 03:44 PM.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by tsubamoto2001 View Post
    I think the limited AAU exposure plays a big part in a lot of prospects' recruiting. Russell Westbrook was a guy that had very limited exposure and did not play for a well-known AAU team. Thus, he did not get any high-major offers until ASU and UCLA came in the Spring of 2006. (Keep in mind that this happened even though he played in the basketball hotbed of Los Angeles.)
    Yes I guess Greg didn't read my reply to one of his earlier posts where I also mentioned Westbrook. There is no "perhaps" about it...And has everyone forgotten that Monty's best ever pg, Brevin Knight, had no offers out of high school until Stanford?

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by SFBearz View Post
    Yes I guess Greg didn't read my reply to one of his earlier posts where I also mentioned Westbrook. There is no "perhaps" about it...And has everyone forgotten that Monty's best ever pg, Brevin Knight, had no offers out of high school until Stanford?
    Murray could be every bit the sleeper that Westbrook or Gilbert Arenas or Jorge Gutierrez were, no doubt about it. His profile is closer to JG than Westbrook however. UCLA was actively recruiting Westbrook during his junior year even if they didn't offer until later. And to be clear, Westbrook had plenty of offers. Cal started recruiting Murray three weeks ago and to that point he had no other offers.

    Here's the Orange County Register's recap of Westbrook's recruitment:

    " On Memorial Day weekend, before his junior year, Westbrook played in a tournament at Pauley Pavilion, which the UCLA coaches weren't allowed to watch. The word got to assistant coach Kerry Keating. One guy was playing at a different speed.

    Westbook excitedly got an invitation to a tournament in Las Vegas. Such schools as Creighton, San Diego and Kent State were aware of Westbrook. Keating quietly hoped no one else was.

    Keating sat next to Purdue coach Matt Painter in Vegas, and Painter was telling him how much he liked Darren Collison, who already had committed to the Bruins. "I was glad to hear him say that," Keating said, "because, on the next court, Russell was there going a million miles an hour.

    "The kid had huge hands, huge feet. He had the grades. He had a great family background. Maybe if you saw him at the time you thought he had maturity issues, because he'd get knocked down, and the play would go the other way and he'd stand there like he was hurt. But it was a matter of him learning how to handle all that competitiveness."

    As a senior Westbrook began to percolate, with a 25.7 points-per-game average.

    "Pretty soon Arizona State and Wake Forest and Miami got interested," said Keating, now Santa Clara's coach. "Russell even took a visit to Miami. But by then we'd developed a trust."

    Let's all agree that Monty is pretty fair judge of talent and that Murray based on his HS production, his highlight reel, the ratings of him by Canadian prep hoops folks and Gonzaga's interest in him has real talent and potential.

    I hope that he comes in next Fall and knocks our socks off. I'm guessing that Tsubamoto is right in his guess that Murray played a limited AAU schedule and was not really being tracked by anyone outside of Gonzaga.

  11. #56
    As a Canadian and a Cal alum I am ecstatic that the Bears have finally landed a Cdn recruit and I hope they continue to recruit there.

    But, I think some are overestimating how touted Murray was among Cdn hoop experts. He was, pre-injury, ranked as the 9th best Cdn in the class of 2010. Canada usually produces one or two impact guys at the high D1 level each year, maybe 3 or 4 in a strong year.

    E.g., 02 had Denham Brown to UConn, but that was about it for high major guys.

    03 had Olu Famutimi (McDs all american) to Arkansas, Levon Kendall to Pitt and Sheray Thomas to Kentucky.

    05 was a banner year with 5 guys going to major programs - Ryan Wright to UCLA, Jevohn Shepperd to Michigan, Maurice Joseph to Michigan State, Andy Rautins to Syracuse, and Theo Davis to Gonzaga.

    06 was a down year, with Kai Williams (South Dakota State) and Scott Brittain (Boston U) probably being the two best guys.

    07 had Rob Sacre to the Zags and Olu Ashaolu and DJ Wright as other fringe top 150 guys (both to La Tech).

    08 had Devoe Joseph (Minn) and Kris Joseph (Syracuse) as top 100 guys.

    09 was a touch deeper, with Junior Cadougan (Marquette), Manny Arop (Zags), and Jason Calliste (Detroit) as top 150 guys and Kelly Olynyk (Zags) and Alwayne Bigby (Northeastern) as other fairly touted guys.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that although Canadian hoops is getting a lot better, it is not yet at the point that the someone outside the top 5 in a class could reasonably be expected to make an impact at a program like Cal.

    Maybe 2010 is an exceptional year for Cdns, and among big men I think it is (Tristan Thompson, Dwight Powell, Kadeem Green, Stefan Nastic, and Maurice Walker are all going to fairly major programs). But let's not overstate how good 9th best Cdn in a class usually translates to at the D1 NCAA level.

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by GregRichardson View Post
    Murray could be every bit the sleeper that Westbrook or Gilbert Arenas or Jorge Gutierrez were, no doubt about it. His profile is closer to JG than Westbrook however. UCLA was actively recruiting Westbrook during his junior year even if they didn't offer until later. And to be clear, Westbrook had plenty of offers. Cal started recruiting Murray three weeks ago and to that point he had no other offers.

    Here's the Orange County Register's recap of Westbrook's recruitment:

    " On Memorial Day weekend, before his junior year, Westbrook played in a tournament at Pauley Pavilion, which the UCLA coaches weren't allowed to watch. The word got to assistant coach Kerry Keating. One guy was playing at a different speed.

    Westbook excitedly got an invitation to a tournament in Las Vegas. Such schools as Creighton, San Diego and Kent State were aware of Westbrook. Keating quietly hoped no one else was.

    Keating sat next to Purdue coach Matt Painter in Vegas, and Painter was telling him how much he liked Darren Collison, who already had committed to the Bruins. "I was glad to hear him say that," Keating said, "because, on the next court, Russell was there going a million miles an hour.

    "The kid had huge hands, huge feet. He had the grades. He had a great family background. Maybe if you saw him at the time you thought he had maturity issues, because he'd get knocked down, and the play would go the other way and he'd stand there like he was hurt. But it was a matter of him learning how to handle all that competitiveness."

    As a senior Westbrook began to percolate, with a 25.7 points-per-game average.

    "Pretty soon Arizona State and Wake Forest and Miami got interested," said Keating, now Santa Clara's coach. "Russell even took a visit to Miami. But by then we'd developed a trust."

    Let's all agree that Monty is pretty fair judge of talent and that Murray based on his HS production, his highlight reel, the ratings of him by Canadian prep hoops folks and Gonzaga's interest in him has real talent and potential.

    I hope that he comes in next Fall and knocks our socks off. I'm guessing that Tsubamoto is right in his guess that Murray played a limited AAU schedule and was not really being tracked by anyone outside of Gonzaga.
    There's some factual errors and assumptions on your part. First, comparing Murray's recruitment with any of these guys is intriguing but there are some differences. For one, Murray played his high school ball in Canada, whereas Westbrook, JG, Arenas, etc. played in the States - meaning they had much more exposure than Murray. Yet they still flew under the radar a bit. Imagine how it was for Murray with the injury added (which probably was the main reason for the drop-off in his recruitment, IMO).

    And as far as Westbrook goes, he was the ultimate sleeper prospect. He grew 3 inches in his junior year. I followed his recruitment. Greg Hicks (essentially the guy who gave Keating the "word") was telling posters Westbrook had more potential as a pro than Arron Afflalo and Jordan Farmar and everyone was telling him he was crazy. UCLA was not "actively" recruiting Westbrook during his junior year. Because the summer before his junior year, he was a 5'11" shooting guard and a low to mid-major prospect. Keating may have been following him, but they were not "actively" recruiting him. (If you want to talk about "actively" recruiting someone, UCLA did that with Josh Smith, who was offered very early in his high school career.) And he didn't have "plenty" of offers. There wasn't a war to get Russell Westbrook. He was sort of an afterthought. James Keefe was the one considered to be the big get in UCLA's 2006 recruiting class. Westbrook had mid-major offers at the beginning of his senior year and the high-majors like ASU, Wake, and Miami came in April. He wanted to sign early with a mid-major (San Diego, from what I recall in late 2005) but Keating kept asking him to wait to see what Farmar and Afflalo would do after the season. UCLA didn't offer until Farmar went pro.

    As far as Murray goes, he actually did have offers. They were from mid-majors, but he was waiting to "get the offer he wanted," which was why he was headed to prep school if he didn't get it. According to this article from Scout.com dated April 1, 2010,

    In addition to Washington State, Murray is talking to Baylor and UCLA, said Bains. Murray holds several “mid-major” offers, such as ones from St. Mary’s and Portland State, but if a full ride from WSU, Baylor or UCLA doesn’t materialize for the late-signing period, Bains said Murray’s plan is to go to a prep school for a year and then re-enter the recruiting landscape.
    For me, the St. Mary's offer is intriguing and says a lot, because I consider Randy Bennett to be one of the better evaluators on the West Coast.

    Murray is definitely intriguing and is shaping up to be the mystery man of this class. I agree, let's hope he knocks our socks off. But even if he doesn't, I hope people don't write him off as a prospect. Remember, Westbrook didn't do much his freshman year (well, he was on a great team and was behind Afflalo on the depth chart, but still).
    Last edited by tsubamoto2001; 04-29-2010 at 10:55 PM.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Frumble View Post
    As a Canadian and a Cal alum I am ecstatic that the Bears have finally landed a Cdn recruit and I hope they continue to recruit there.

    But, I think some are overestimating how touted Murray was among Cdn hoop experts. He was, pre-injury, ranked as the 9th best Cdn in the class of 2010. Canada usually produces one or two impact guys at the high D1 level each year, maybe 3 or 4 in a strong year.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that although Canadian hoops is getting a lot better, it is not yet at the point that the someone outside the top 5 in a class could reasonably be expected to make an impact at a program like Cal.

    Maybe 2010 is an exceptional year for Cdns, and among big men I think it is (Tristan Thompson, Dwight Powell, Kadeem Green, Stefan Nastic, and Maurice Walker are all going to fairly major programs). But let's not overstate how good 9th best Cdn in a class usually translates to at the D1 NCAA level.
    2010 is an exceptional year for Canadian prospects (you don't mention Cory Joseph who is considered a top 15 player in the US class) and not long ago Hoopstars Canada had Murray as # 5 in that class and the top player in the class playing in Canada. His injury really makes the rankings sort of meaningless though...

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Frumble View Post
    As a Canadian and a Cal alum I am ecstatic that the Bears have finally landed a Cdn recruit and I hope they continue to recruit there.

    But, I think some are overestimating how touted Murray was among Cdn hoop experts. He was, pre-injury, ranked as the 9th best Cdn in the class of 2010. Canada usually produces one or two impact guys at the high D1 level each year, maybe 3 or 4 in a strong year.

    E.g., 02 had Denham Brown to UConn, but that was about it for high major guys.

    03 had Olu Famutimi (McDs all american) to Arkansas, Levon Kendall to Pitt and Sheray Thomas to Kentucky.

    05 was a banner year with 5 guys going to major programs - Ryan Wright to UCLA, Jevohn Shepperd to Michigan, Maurice Joseph to Michigan State, Andy Rautins to Syracuse, and Theo Davis to Gonzaga.

    06 was a down year, with Kai Williams (South Dakota State) and Scott Brittain (Boston U) probably being the two best guys.

    07 had Rob Sacre to the Zags and Olu Ashaolu and DJ Wright as other fringe top 150 guys (both to La Tech).

    08 had Devoe Joseph (Minn) and Kris Joseph (Syracuse) as top 100 guys.

    09 was a touch deeper, with Junior Cadougan (Marquette), Manny Arop (Zags), and Jason Calliste (Detroit) as top 150 guys and Kelly Olynyk (Zags) and Alwayne Bigby (Northeastern) as other fairly touted guys.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that although Canadian hoops is getting a lot better, it is not yet at the point that the someone outside the top 5 in a class could reasonably be expected to make an impact at a program like Cal.

    Maybe 2010 is an exceptional year for Cdns, and among big men I think it is (Tristan Thompson, Dwight Powell, Kadeem Green, Stefan Nastic, and Maurice Walker are all going to fairly major programs). But let's not overstate how good 9th best Cdn in a class usually translates to at the D1 NCAA level.
    Personally, I've stated that I'm with-holding judgment on the kid until I see him play a few times, but I really don't think the rankings mean all that much. First, they do seem to be biased toward the Eastern Canadian (Ontario, specifically) kids. (East Coast bias exists in Canada, too, eh?) Not that Murray should "be rated higher" so to speak, but that is an element in play, IMO. One guy you forgot was Marc Trasolini from Santa Clara, a BC kid, who is a pretty good player himself. Personally, I'm not expecting Murray to be Derrick Rose as a freshman, but I can see him being a contributor. Anyways, all we can do as fans is hope Monty knows what he's doing.

  15. #60

    The M Factor

    I don't know what the coaching staff did to sell M & family on their program but whatever it was I commend them.
    I know Canada don't they live in igloos ! lol
    M has incredible family values which I accredit to Mike and Jane his mom and dad.
    A ten minute visit with them will confirm my feelings, they are both steel and for real.
    Although I loved my parents I can't help wonder what if! lol
    If you are ever fortunate to have them for dinner guests which I have you will get my drift!
    I am electrified M is going to Cal.
    I only hope the pressure isn't to great.
    Don't get me wrong i have never seen an athlete like M excel to the degree he does under pressure.
    If for some strange chance M does not meet my lofty claims please be patient with him.
    You will not be disappointed!

    BTW I was banned from Cougs website for telling them about the one that got away! lol

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