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Thread: Kravish developing into Tim Duncan

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkoski View Post
    this is college, not the pros. I see no reason why you can't mostly lean on your starting 5 for 40 minutes for 30 games.
    Have you been listening to the post game Monty pressers? He is constantly talking about how he doesn't want to burn out his starters like he did last year.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicoRico View Post
    Way to set the bar low for Krash -- Duncan is arguably the 3rd best big man in NBA history (I'd rate him above Shaq, because of his consistency/longevity).
    Was fun to watch DK play last night, but give him a little wiggle room in his comparisons!

    I'd compare him to Brian Hendrick -- also just a pleasure to watch.
    Rico,
    I'll give up, but I would be totally satisfied with pre-injury Hendrick.

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    Who starts doesn't make one lick of difference as far as that goes for "bench production." What does matter in figuring this out is who the best players are at those positions and playing those guys the majority of the minutes. Cobbs is clearly a better player than Smith (anyone who can't see this doesn't understand what they are watching)
    Cobbs certainly has more talent than Smith. The reason I like Cobbs coming off the bench for now is that he adds some scoring punch to the second unit particularly when Crabbe sits. That said, Cobbs should absolutely start playing more and more minutes at Smith's expense.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanJuanBear View Post
    Cobbs certainly has more talent than Smith. The reason I like Cobbs coming off the bench for now is that he adds some scoring punch to the second unit particularly when Crabbe sits. That said, Cobbs should absolutely start playing more and more minutes at Smith's expense.
    Agreed 100%.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubanPete View Post
    If Smith starts and Jorge goes to the bench, the backcourt is Smith and Cobbs. If Cobbs starts and Jorge goes to the bench, the backcourt is Smith and Cobbs.

    If Solomon starts and Kamp goes to the bench, the frontcourt is Solomon and Kravish. If Kravish starts and Kamp goes to the bench, the frontcourt is Solomon and Kravish.

    Who starts doesn't make one lick of difference as far as that goes for "bench production."
    Quote Originally Posted by FingeroftheBear View Post
    Bench production absolutely matters for the simple reason you'll burn your starters out eventually if they don't get some rest. That's what happened last season
    Terrific job of completely missing the point.

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    7-Man Rotation

    Cobbs and Kravish are terrific, because they give Cal a legitimate 7-man rotation, so that Gutierrez and Kamp don't have to play 38 minutes. That is all Cobbs and Kravish have to be right now, but even better than that, they are actually contributing just like starters. If Montgomery can come up with one more quality time contributor, that would be great. But the 7-man rotation is critical, and these guys have brought that to the Bears in 2011.

    One additional bonus from Kravish, is that he is pushing Solomon to be more assertive, defend and rebound, and go up strong for the dunk instead of settling for a weak little block-able bank shot.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmoephobic View Post
    Have you been listening to the post game Monty pressers? He is constantly talking about how he doesn't want to burn out his starters like he did last year.
    Jorge averaged 36 in conf games last season. I think it would be beneficial if this came down to 32 or less, but we don't need a 5th guard/wing to emerge for this to happen. Adding Cobbs to the mix is enough. Regardless of who starts, Cobbs, Smith, Jorge, and Crabbe should each each see 30 mins a game, +/- maybe 3 mins.

    I am hoping for Murray as much as anybody, but I don't expect to see him play meaningful minutes, and we don't really need him to (barring injury or foul trouble to Cobbs. Smith, Jorge, or Crabbe).

  8. #53
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    If they keep building double digit leads, there'll be plenty of opportunities to expand the rotation and lower the mileage on Kamp and Jorge. Kamp is the one I'm most concerned about but Jorge's style means he's always just 1 collision away from an injury.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Frumble View Post
    Jorge averaged 36 in conf games last season. I think it would be beneficial if this came down to 32 or less, but we don't need a 5th guard/wing to emerge for this to happen. Adding Cobbs to the mix is enough.
    Assuming that Crabbe, Jorge, Smith, and Cobbs split up the minutes at the 1-3 positions (with Jorge swinging over when Crabbe is off the floor), you could split up that 120 minutes of game time very easily by giving each guy about 30 minutes each. Crabbe would probably get the largest amount of PT with Jorge only really needing to swing over to his spot for about 5-7 minutes a game plus the breaks you get from mandatory timeouts.

    Where you might want a fourth guard or a true backup 3 would be if one of those guys is in foul trouble and you want to keep them on the bench extra time or if, god forbid, somebody gets hurt. Then we're back where we were last year.

    I am hoping for Murray as much as anybody, but I don't expect to see him play meaningful minutes, and we don't really need him to (barring injury or foul trouble to Cobbs. Smith, Jorge, or Crabbe).
    I expect him to only see minutes in situations where one team has a large lead (either way) or at the end of games, pretty similar to what he's doing now. At least until he shows he can provide some dependable shooting.
    Last edited by Man Hands; 11-17-2011 at 06:04 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59bear View Post
    Jorge's style means he's always just 1 collision away from an injury.
    Most likely that injury will be to the opponent.

  11. #56
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    Maybe a Monty player at Stanford, Matt Haryasz? Came to Stanford at super skinny 6'10" 215 lbs, but shot decently, blocked shots, had good fundamentals and played smart and tough?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubanPete View Post
    Fun facts.

    If Smith starts and Jorge goes to the bench, the backcourt is Smith and Cobbs. If Cobbs starts and Jorge goes to the bench, the backcourt is Smith and Cobbs.

    If Solomon starts and Kamp goes to the bench, the frontcourt is Solomon and Kravish. If Kravish starts and Kamp goes to the bench, the frontcourt is Solomon and Kravish.

    Who starts doesn't make one lick of difference as far as that goes for "bench production." What does matter in figuring this out is who the best players are at those positions and playing those guys the majority of the minutes. Cobbs is clearly a better player than Smith (anyone who can't see this doesn't understand what they are watching) and Kravish and Solomon are real, real close at the moment. If I was going to give one of them an edge, I'd honestly give it to Kravish. However, Solomon has more upside because he's stronger and more athletic, so if you can get him to cut down on mistakes, he can make a bigger impact.
    That assumes that you automatically start the guy who is "better" instead of looking at who works best with the starters and who can elevate the second unit. And in this case I like Smith playing with the starters, because there's plenty of scoring and he doesn't have to be anything but a guy who takes care of the ball, sets up the offense and distributes. If Cobbs starts the entire unit is a bit more potent but his skills are less likely to be put to maximum use.

    I like Cobbs coming in when one or two of our other scorers are out because he's a threat on his own, will probably get some time against the other team's subs and be even more of a mismatch, plays very well with Kravish as well as the starters, and just adds a different dynamic to the second unit. Plus, since he can sub for two spots he can end up in the closing unit and play as many or more minutes.

    Bench chemistry is important and bench production is important. Depth is important.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkoski View Post
    this is college, not the pros. I see no reason why you can't mostly lean on your starting 5 for 40 minutes for 30 games.
    Have you ever seen a team do that and not wear down toward the end of the season?

    No one can play as hard for 40 minutes as they can for 30 week in and week out. Doesn't matter how nicely conditioned you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesaxe View Post
    That assumes that you automatically start the guy who is "better" instead of looking at who works best with the starters and who can elevate the second unit.
    As I already established, who you start doesn't affect the "second unit." We have a three man frontcourt rotation and a three man backcourt rotation. There is no "second unit" unless we're in garbage time. Any mix of players will always include three starters on the floor at any one time.

    And in this case I like Smith playing with the starters, because there's plenty of scoring and he doesn't have to be anything but a guy who takes care of the ball, sets up the offense and distributes. If Cobbs starts the entire unit is a bit more potent but his skills are less likely to be put to maximum use.


    Seriously, it's just sad reading this board sometimes.

    Cobbs is a guy who can penetrate into the key, dish from the key if the shot isn't there, and shoot an acceptable percentage if he's open for a jump shot. With only one other guy in the starting lineup who can set up his own shot or set up shots for others (Jorge), this is a valuable skill to have in the starting lineup since we don't have any post guys who will demand an automatic double team and pass out of it.

    Brandon Smith mentally understands how to play the PG position, from what I can see. If he manages to get into the key, he will make the correct pass if it's there. The problem is that he doesn't possess the ballhandling skills to get there very often. If he does get there, he is not a very good finisher in traffic or if he gets bumped, things that Cobbs has already shown he can do at a pretty good level. If he gets fouled, he will on average make fewer free throws than Cobbs.

    If there was some skill Smith possessed that Cobbs lacked, like if he was a elite defender or a very good free throw shooter or a good catch and shoot player or a better drive and dish guy, I could understand this position. But he isn't better at any of these skills. The defense of him as a starter basically comes down to the standard Cal internet fan ethos of defending the status quo because the coach can never be wrong about anything. In this case, it's not as bad as Tedford gifting the QB job to Maynard due to who his brother is because both guys play quite a bit and there is no fourth guy who would reduce either guys' minutes to the point where you had one guy rotting on the bench behind a better player. Cobbs will get 20 plus minutes a night regardless, as will Smith.

    I like Cobbs coming in when one or two of our other scorers are out because he's a threat on his own, will probably get some time against the other team's subs and be even more of a mismatch, plays very well with Kravish as well as the starters, and just adds a different dynamic to the second unit. Plus, since he can sub for two spots he can end up in the closing unit and play as many or more minutes.

    Bench chemistry is important and bench production is important. Depth is important.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesaxe View Post
    Have you ever seen a team do that and not wear down toward the end of the season?

    No one can play as hard for 40 minutes as they can for 30 week in and week out. Doesn't matter how nicely conditioned you are.
    Kamp certainly can't go 40 minutes, I think the 33 he gave us last year may be pushing it.

    What will likely happen is Monty will play a lot of guys when he can, and will tighten up the rotation in big games and at the end of the season.

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