Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 110

Thread: transfers out

  1. #46

    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
    Ben was liked personally, but when his program had mediocre to bad seasons, about half the posters wanted him gone, and the other half supported him. Ben was a polarizing figure. He also had problems graduating players, which fans don't care about, but Sandy does. Monty has had an excellent record, and has done well so far moving the players towards graduation. The concern with Monty for some is based on the perceived lack of recruiting success, and what that will do to the program in the long run. Very different issues.
    Side topic...but who liked Ben personally? His players? Laugh. The media? Perhaps. Other coaches? Laugh. His own staff? C'mon...The fans? I guess you mean the fans, which for the most part never had any actual dealings with him...

    How many ex BB era players do you see coming back to game at Haas. I see 1 on a regular basis. Lampley. That should tell you something.

  2. #47
    True Blue Golden Bear KoreAmBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Somewhere along the Ko`olau Summit Trail
    Posts
    22,822
    Quote Originally Posted by ReasonableBear View Post
    Side topic...but who liked Ben personally? His players? Laugh. The media? Perhaps. Other coaches? Laugh. His own staff? C'mon...The fans? I guess you mean the fans, which for the most part never had any actual dealings with him...

    How many ex BB era players do you see coming back to game at Haas. I see 1 on a regular basis. Lampley. That should tell you something.
    What ballers have time to come back to see their alma mater play on a consistent basis, period? Not many. I would bet most don't even live in the Bay Area.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ReasonableBear View Post
    Side topic...but who liked Ben personally? His players? Laugh. The media? Perhaps. Other coaches? Laugh. His own staff? C'mon...The fans? I guess you mean the fans, which for the most part never had any actual dealings with him...

    How many ex BB era players do you see coming back to game at Haas. I see 1 on a regular basis. Lampley. That should tell you something.
    I think the perception is Braun was personally liked by Sandy, the Administration in general (donated his own money back for student tutoring) and by key members of the Haas family. Oh, and the restaurateurs of Berkeley, the greater Bay Area and every Pac-10 city. Probably his wife too.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ayetee11 View Post
    A couple things I would like to point out. DJ was the leading scorer, but like the OP said, Kwame was the best all around player. I'm very close to Kwame, so I've gotten to watch DJ a lot this year. He's a good kid. He played hard on defense, but that's not saying he's a great defender. He's a flat out scoring machine and Fullerton plays a style that benefits him and other guards. There was an article this year when he returned home to play Pacific saying that he never felt confident because he knew he would get pulled. That's on both parties.

    Fullerton may have one of the best backcourts in the west. They also have Darius Nelson who will be eligible in December.
    Since I'm the OP you quoted, I would have to agree with you, and it was the gist of my original post: sometimes players thrive after leaving an environment that was toxic--either self-created or with the complicity of the coaches or teammates. I've seen a few Cal games and a few CSF games, so I think I have a pretty good handle on Seeley this past season (not his previous two seasons at Cal).

    One of two outcomes was going to happen post-CSF transfer: he would either continue to be lackadaisical, dripping in potential, but being largely unproductive--or he would flourish under Burton's wide-open, guard-friendly style of play. I think it's clear the latter occurred for Seeley.

    Agreed partially with both sides of the debate.

    One dig I will inject: the Big West wasn't that much worse than the PAC 12--Long Beach St. had a much better offseason than the PAC 12, in fact (see their nonconference play against Pitt, Xavier, UNC, Kansas, SDSU, Creighton, and Louisville). Not a single blowout loss--OK, they lost by 17 to Kansas St. But the others they either won or were in it until the very end.

    So while DJ Seeley's numbers were much gaudier, don't assume it was solely due to the poor competition. Yes, the bottom of the Big West is terrible, so some of his numbers were inflated due to the lower level of competition, but his performance at CSF was a quantum leap better than his limited play at Cal (duh).

    Let me put it this way: because he transferred to CSF, he will probably get an invite to Portsmouth next season (I think Omoke got an invite--not sure if he accepted it), which means he has a remote chance of the NBA--albeit an extremely slight chance. If he had languished on Cal's bench, there would be no conversation.

    At the end of the day, as I originally posited, I think it worked out for both parties when they parted ways. Anyway, the discussion has been insightful. If I can add some impartiality: there's nothing wrong as a fan to want your program to improve, but also don't forget to be grateful that you still ended up 2nd in the PAC 12 and went dancing--even if it was a "disappointing year." It could be a lot worse. Thanks for letting me post and I look forward to recording more Cal games.

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by ReasonableBear View Post
    There is an old adage in the coaching profession...You love to get transfers...why? Because they have nowhere else to go!

    Seeley probably did two things in his move to Fullerton...He probably grew up and got more mature. And he probably came to the realization that if he didn't listen to the coaches and work harder that he would never play there either. I suppose those two things go hand in hand with each other.

    The reality is that sure, DJ may have had a come to God type moment at Cal and changed his demeanor, his persona, everything, and been a contributor. But the likelihood of those things happening without a change of scenery is very low.

    So Richard, while you try to use his SENIOR statistics for a team that plays in a far inferior conference and level of competition...you leave out a lot of factors that play into WHY he was able to succeed at this lower level of basketball.

    When a player has no other options, he's much more likely to buy in, and work hard, and be a team player...it's a pretty simple rationale.

    I don't think there's anyone on this board that would disagree with the fact that if he had a good attitude and work rate he would have been a good contributor for Cal this year, and probably the year before also. But those two things were absent while he was at Cal...so...
    Agreed on Seeley probably maturing and coming to Jesus at CSF to explain his improvement.

    Don't agree on the Big West being far inferior to the PAC 12--only because the PAC 12 only had one "good" win--against Colorado St. (top 50 rpi) during the regular season. Top to bottom, yes, the Big West was terrible, but the top 3 teams could play with most power conference teams. Heck, the bottom of the PAC 12 was pretty terrible, too.

    Also, last season was Seeley's JUNIOR season, not his senior season. He's got one more year left. If he continues to improve, he may disappoint a lot of naysayers.

    I've seen players improve vastly from a new environment, for whatever reasons. One kid transferred up from SIU to Valpo to starting for Michigan St. What most people don't realize is div. 1 basketball is div. 1 basketball. Despite Cal blowing out UCSB this past season, it is Orlando Johnson who is a projected 2nd rounder in the NBA draft. Not guaranteeing he will be drafted, but he is rated higher than most if not all PAC 12 seniors. And Casper Ware of Long Beach was a finalist for the Bob Cousy award. He and two of his teammates were invited to Portsmouth also.

  6. #51
    True Blue Golden Bear KoreAmBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Somewhere along the Ko`olau Summit Trail
    Posts
    22,822
    Quote Originally Posted by dakyne View Post
    Agreed on Seeley probably maturing and coming to Jesus at CSF to explain his improvement.

    Don't agree on the Big West being far inferior to the PAC 12--only because the PAC 12 only had one "good" win--against Colorado St. (top 50 rpi) during the regular season. Top to bottom, yes, the Big West was terrible, but the top 3 teams could play with most power conference teams. Heck, the bottom of the PAC 12 was pretty terrible, too.

    Also, last season was Seeley's JUNIOR season, not his senior season. He's got one more year left. If he continues to improve, he may disappoint a lot of naysayers.

    I've seen players improve vastly from a new environment, for whatever reasons. One kid transferred up from SIU to Valpo to starting for Michigan St. What most people don't realize is div. 1 basketball is div. 1 basketball. Despite Cal blowing out UCSB this past season, it is Orlando Johnson who is a projected 2nd rounder in the NBA draft. Not guaranteeing he will be drafted, but he is rated higher than most if not all PAC 12 seniors. And Casper Ware of Long Beach was a finalist for the Bob Cousy award. He and two of his teammates were invited to Portsmouth also.
    I would have taken Casper Ware over pretty much any guard in the P-12.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by KoreAmBear View Post
    I would have taken Casper Ware over pretty much any guard in the P-12.
    Agreed, most wrote him off cuz he's short and he's at a mid-major, but he pretty much outplayed or played even against all the point guards he went up against. He also had the unique distinction of being BW POY and defensive POY in 2011. Having said that, I think Wroten is a stud, as is Cobbs. I originally thought Crabbe would be a better NBA prospect, and he may still be, but you can't argue against Cobb's production and athleticism.

    FWIW, LB's only loss in the BW conference season was to CSF in the final regular season game.

    Given what's returning next season, Seeley is a lock for 1st team all-BW, and some say he is a candidate for POY. I don't even think he's their best player on his own team (Vaughn), but it's a lot better than where he came from.

    In any case, I think the Gauchos will play Cal again in Haas before a trip to the Thunderdome the following season. I think you guys blow us out by 30 next time, but I still look forward to it.
    Last edited by dakyne; 04-13-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  8. #53

    Breaking news: both Seeley and Vaughn are transferring out of CSF

    Not sure why they would do this, as they have already used up their redshirt year when they transferred into CSF.

    Their only chance to play is to drop down to NAIA--or play overseas.

  9. #54

    unexpected

    isn't Seeley a junior, going into his senior year?
    If that's the case, you're right...he can't transfer to another D1 school


    Quote Originally Posted by dakyne View Post
    Not sure why they would do this, as they have already used up their redshirt year when they transferred into CSF.

    Their only chance to play is to drop down to NAIA--or play overseas.
    I dont need easy, I need possible. Jorge Gutierrez

  10. #55
    This news should be enough to extend the thread another 4-5 pages for sure!

  11. #56
    True Blue Golden Bear KoreAmBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Somewhere along the Ko`olau Summit Trail
    Posts
    22,822
    Quote Originally Posted by dakyne View Post
    Not sure why they would do this, as they have already used up their redshirt year when they transferred into CSF.

    Their only chance to play is to drop down to NAIA--or play overseas.
    That's strange -- sounds like it's we did well to have Seeley leave, then. More drama for him.

  12. #57
    Someone on CSF's staff said Vaughn and Seeley were leaving, but now someone else on their board said Seeley wasn't. Who knows, but Coach Burton is obviously losing some of his players; even a few outgoing seniors who wanted to quit before their CIT game.

    Like I said, Cal may have some recruiting challenges, but it could be a lot worse. As a few others have stated, having Solomon, Cobbs and Crabbe around as juniors certainly helps maintain the momentum of the program.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by GB54 View Post
    Seeley was supposed to be some offensive juggernaut who scored 30 points per game in high school. Somewhere between Modesto and Berkeley he forgot how to shoot and how to create a shot. He was terrible even when he started

    He was a freshman and sophomore who smoked too much pot and who incredibly got stuck behind both Nikola and Brandon Smith in the rotation. The first issue was his fault. The second issue was the fault of the shortsightedness of our coaches.

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ReasonableBear View Post
    I thank my lucky stars you are not a coach or a talent evaluator for our program.

    Most talented player in the MM era? Should I start listing guys...Randle, Christopher, Crabbe, Gutierrez, Kamp, Robertson, Cobbs... I could go on a long time before I get to the name Seeley.


    None of those guys, except for Crabbe, were national Top 50 guys in high school. D.J. Seeley, on the other hand, was a consensus Top 50 recruit. That isn't just my opinion. That's the opinion of Clark Francis, Bob Gibbons, Van Coleman, and others who have been at the recruit ranking game for years and decades.

    Crabbe also came after Seeley, so when Seeley was here, he wasn't among the players in the Mike Montgomery era.

    Randle, as great a college player as he was as an upperclassman, was limited by his size and, at times, his decision-making. Patrick Christopher had the athleticism but didn't ever develop into the dominating wing that he could have been.

    I love Jorge Gutierrez, Harper Kamp, and Theo Robertson, but those three are examples of players who maxxed out their talent and then some. That was through hard work, effort, and practice.

    Seeley had and still has the natural skills. Those were God-given. Player development is a different issue, and you appear to be confusing the two.

  15. #60

    February 23, 2012 article: "Refound Confidence Makes Seeley a Titan of Force"

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesaxe View Post
    I think you overrate his talent level, although he showed flashes of ability on offense. I was sorry he left, because I thought he might become a pretty good player. However, his defense was horrible and his hustle pretty much non-existent. I'm okay with a coach having a problem with that. I put his lack of PT on him way more than on the coaches.


    I think everyone here is underrating Seeley's talent. Talent doesn't go away just because your coach doesn't like your attitude or your style and sits you on the bench behind Nikola.

    Here is an article with quotes from Seeley's current basketball coach about his defense and his basketball I.Q. Very complimentary of Seeley, and a marked contrast to the general consensus here among people who have never played or coached the game:

    http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.d...ORTS/202230307

    Here are some very telling quotes:

    "He's a terrific player," Burton said. "He can do everything. He has a high basketball IQ, can really shoot it, bounces it pretty good and can really defend. We wouldn't be where we are right now if we didn't have him."
    Seeley chose to sign with Cal, but the man who recruited him, former Cal coach Ben Braun, was fired before Seeley arrived in Berkeley in the fall of 2008. Seeley appeared in 51 games in two seasons at Cal, but he averaged less than 8 minutes per contest and always feared he would be benched if he made a mistake.

    "I went from being one of the best players in the country to being the last person to get off the bench," Seeley said. "It was a big adjustment. When I did get in, I wasn't playing my game. I was just trying not to mess up."

    Seeley said he had more than 30 family members and friends in the crowd when Cal played Pacific at Stockton Arena on Dec. 9, 2009. The Golden Bears rolled to a 79-54 victory, but Seeley logged just nine scoreless minutes. He said that evening marked one of his lowest points at Cal.

    "I didn't know how to feel," Seeley said. "I was just more depressed than anything."
    "He was above our heads," Burton said. "He was a top-50 player in the country out of high school, but, of course, we are the Transfer U of the world. Kids know this is a great place to transfer to, especially with the style that we play and the location and everything."
    "I'm having fun," Seeley said. "I've got my confidence back now, and I'm playing my game."
    Depression, complete lack of confidence, confusion, and lack of minutes. Thanks a lot, Coach Montgomery and Coach Jay John, for screwing up D.J. Seeley and a chance to develop a true scoring star with real pro player-type talent. We needed that against South Florida.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •