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Thread: It bugs me seeing the "Monty's Arrogance" title...

  1. #16
    Again, I don't know why you guys rip on WB just because he shares an opinion you don't like. I actually find it interesting that he comes on here and comments. He's right - the rest of us, most of us I suspect - are simply Cal fans and have no inside interaction with MM.

    Whatever.

    I guess I'll just say this, WB. It IS true that it is in bad taste to come on here, a public and anonymous forum, and throw out words like A-hole like you did. Stuff like that should respectfully be kept confidential. If you wanted to share your experience, you could have used more tasteful vocabulary.

    If two girls asked you out on a date, you might pick the nicer looking one. But in declining from the other, you wouldn't walk away saying she was a dog. You would be a gentleman and decline politely, saying you had a prior engagement. Instead of a-hole, you could have said that the family didn't "feel comfortable", a "connection" wasn't made. Maybe MM didn't believe in ML to the extent felt merited/required. Hell, you might even go so far as to use the word "arrogant", but not a-hole, as you have twice now done. That raises people's emotion and thus bashing of you.

    Public relations.

  2. #17
    Willie Beamon
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    Quote Originally Posted by concordtom View Post
    Again, I don't know why you guys rip on WB just because he shares an opinion you don't like. I actually find it interesting that he comes on here and comments. He's right - the rest of us, most of us I suspect - are simply Cal fans and have no inside interaction with MM.

    Whatever.

    I guess I'll just say this, WB. It IS true that it is in bad taste to come on here, a public and anonymous forum, and throw out words like A-hole like you did. Stuff like that should respectfully be kept confidential. If you wanted to share your experience, you could have used more tasteful vocabulary.

    If two girls asked you out on a date, you might pick the nicer looking one. But in declining from the other, you wouldn't walk away saying she was a dog. You would be a gentleman and decline politely, saying you had a prior engagement. Instead of a-hole, you could have said that the family didn't "feel comfortable", a "connection" wasn't made. Maybe MM didn't believe in ML to the extent felt merited/required. Hell, you might even go so far as to use the word "arrogant", but not a-hole, as you have twice now done. That raises people's emotion and thus bashing of you.

    Public relations.
    You're right and I respect that

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Beamon View Post
    Unless you have been around him in a closed setting where he didn't have to put up a facade in public, don't question what I have witnessed with my own eyes. I'm not going to air his dirty laundry anonymously on a message board to prove anything to anybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Beamon View Post
    It is so funny to me how you blindly defend somebody whom none of you have had any personal interaction with just because he's the head coach at Cal.
    So why not change our minds by laying it out there what you saw? Put your money where your mouth is so MM can sue you for libel if he wants (haha like he would bother).

    You don't have to spend much time around him to figure out MM has an acidic personality and a sarcastic sense of humor. But if you want us to believe he went out of his way to actively insult Lee and/or his family you're going to have to convince us.

    If you insist on hiding behind innuendo, why are you here? If Cal and MM are such a joke, why do you care? I'm not bashing you or telling you to leave, I'm just saying it makes no sense unless all you're really trying to do is sow the seeds of discontent with MM to hasten his departure in order to further some personal agenda of your own.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by OldBlue1999 View Post
    So why not change our minds by laying it out there what you saw? Put your money where your mouth is so MM can sue you for libel if he wants (haha like he would bother).

    You don't have to spend much time around him to figure out MM has an acidic personality and a sarcastic sense of humor. But if you want us to believe he went out of his way to actively insult Lee and/or his family you're going to have to convince us.

    If you insist on hiding behind innuendo, why are you here? If Cal and MM are such a joke, why do you care? I'm not bashing you or telling you to leave, I'm just saying it makes no sense unless all you're really trying to do is sow the seeds of discontent with MM to hasten his departure in order to further some personal agenda of your own.
    Well said.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by OldBlue1999 View Post
    why are you here? If Cal and MM are such a joke, why do you care?
    That's not really fair. Why are any of us here? Come on, it's obvious. Because we have passion and interest in such matters. Same for wb, tain't nothing wrong with that.

    My guess is that wb et al would have rather been blown away impressed by the Cal pitch, and instead it sounds like it was not at all, to the contrary in fact. I suspect there is a bit of sadness there to the point of anger that it couldn't have been better, a better fit and solution. And you know what, we all share that in common with him.

    Wb is here both because he's interested in Cal and to defend honor. Pretty simple and understandable.

    Wish you all the best wb and ml. We'll always have what could have been, <sob>.




    <burst> (five cries for the five stars that ml is ranked)

  6. #21
    In a world where all knowledge and facts are known to all and where rationality prevails, I'd say mm wins more recruiting battles, because he coaches well and he's a straight shooter (a fact many of us here understand and appreciate). Does mm think recruits live in this world?

    You all have to admit, Calipari has it dialed in this recruiting business. He turns march madness, all the UK anticipatory energy, into the biggest recruiting tool. Other coaches are simply stupid not to emulate.
    You've got to put big bait on your hook if you want to attract the biggest fish.

    Car companies might build a car that gets great mileage, has wonderful power, is quite roomy, and is fantastically safe when involved in an accident. And then they are miffed when people buy this other little model over here because "it's cute" and simply attracted their senses and not their mind. Now UK is not just some cute little model over here' but you get my point. Appeal to the senses, I think, is the lesson here, and always.

  7. #22
    Real Bear
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    Concordtom - why are you so up on Willie's jock?

    He has NO credibility. All I'm reading is a bunch of B.S.

    Monty, on the other hand, has Hall of Fame credibility. Look up his numbers. What the F**K has this clown Willie done, and why are you defending him at every turn?

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SonomaBear View Post
    Concordtom - why are you so up on Willie's jock?

    He has NO credibility. All I'm reading is a bunch of B.S.

    Monty, on the other hand, has Hall of Fame credibility. Look up his numbers. What the F**K has this clown Willie done, and why are you defending him at every turn?
    It appears that Concordtom is completely fixated on TheRise as the enemy. Thus even when TheRise attacks Kentucky and says Lee should reconsider and go to Cal--prompting Willie Beamon to then attack TheRise, Concordtom only sees that Willie Beamon has attacked TheRise and jumps to his support (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), even though he is actually defending an anti-Cal position.

    That said, I agree with much of his defense of Willie B and his right to have an opinion and to post here (I just find it somewhat hypocritical given his(?) request to have TheRise banned).
    Last edited by calumnus; 12-12-2012 at 12:26 PM.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SonomaBear View Post
    Concordtom - why are you so up on Willie's jock?

    He has NO credibility. All I'm reading is a bunch of B.S.

    Monty, on the other hand, has Hall of Fame credibility. Look up his numbers. What the F**K has this clown Willie done, and why are you defending him at every turn?
    1) Why shouldn't I believe him? He's given more clues as to his identity than either you or I.

    2) All he's done is tell some parts of "his" story, whether it's to be believed or not. I don't think his points are invalid - we just don't like them b/c we didn't get ML and he is telling us why. So, in turn, we bash him? For what? I think he's valid to laugh at our reaction.

    3) Please detail for me MM's Naismith HOF credentials. Please start be reviewing where he ranks on the list of all time winningest coaches (on wikipedia), where he ranks in terms of Sweet 16's, Elite 8's, Final Fours and Championship appearances. IMHO, if MM can't get to 700 wins and/or Cal to a Final Four, then it's not going to happen. He'll need to coach for 4 more years at a minimum, and I DEFINITELY hope that happens. But, there are others presumably in line before him, and who is coming up from behind that will leapfrog him while he waits?

    4) Why does supporting someone's comments here have to be debased to "hanging all up his jock"? As I said before, you lower your own credibility, your arguments carry less weight, when you use distasteful language and take the debate into the gutter.

    5) If you posit that WB has nothing to do with ML, that his testament is a complete lie from an outsider designed to slam MM for some personal agenda - okay, that could be true. I understand that, and hopefully everyone else here does as well.

    6) Otherwise, if WB is telling the truth, then he certainly adds some insight for us, doesn't he? It's a fan board, and this falls under the category. I don't think comments are limited/censured to "positivity only", are they?

  10. #25
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    Here you go:
    College coaching careerMontgomery compiled a 547–244 (.692) overall record in 18 years at Stanford (1986–2004) and eight seasons at the University of Montana (1978–1986). He boasts 25 winning seasons in his 26 years as a head coach at both Stanford and Montana. Montgomery's Stanford teams reached the NCAA tournament ten straight times from 1995 to 2004. Stanford reached the Final Four under Montgomery in 1998, the school's first Final Four appearance in 56 years. He made his third appearance along the USA Basketball sidelines in 2002 when he was named an assistant under George Karl for the US national team in the 2002 FIBA World Championship.[1]

    In 2000, Montgomery was named the Naismith and Basketball Times Coach of the Year. He was also named the Pac-10 Coach of the Year four times. Following his career at Stanford, he was awarded the John R. Wooden Legends of Coaching Lifetime Achievement Award.

    Now why don't you come up with something supporting Willie's bashing of Monty without providing any specifics?
    Last edited by SonomaBear; 12-12-2012 at 12:48 PM.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by calumnus View Post
    It appears that Concordtom is completely fixated on TheRise as the enemy. Thus even when TheRise attacks Kentucky and says Lee should reconsider and go to Cal--prompting Willie Beamon to then attack TheRise, Concordtom only sees that Willie Beamon has attacked TheRise and jumps to his support (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), even though he is actually defending an anti-Cal position.
    chuckle!
    Okay, here it is. I view the Rise as the enemy b/c all he wants is Arizona to do well. He doesn't care about Cal that I can tell. He doesn't want AG to come here. He wants Rooks to come here b/c he believes that Jabari Parker is a possibility for Arizona, along with AG. Go check out his twitter feed. He's got his eye on other higher level recruits too. He hopes AZ legacy Rooks goes to Cal so that they get grab higher targets.

    Further, the Rise (note the small "t", not capitalized) is merely using his Marcus Lee criticism of Kentucky to show AG that UK is not a good place to go. So, ML is merely a tool. ML is already signed to UK, there is no coming back to Cal and Rise knows that. So, Rise does not support ML coming to Cal, ML is merely his tool. There's nothing to support in Rise from my perspective, though his comments add knowledge here, as I don't read all the various news flashes he does.

    As for WB, when he talks, I get a sense of emotion about Cal. Why would WB go out of his way to say some of the stuff he does here? Because there is emotion about it. Someone else long ago pointed out that if you don't care, you don't comment. It's like, another universe that doesn't matter to you. So, I see WB as an actual Cal supporter, of sorts, who maybe would have wanted ML to come here. No doubt WB would have been able to watch ML play more often LIVE and in person. In this sense, I've got more in common with WB than tR. He and I *could* have been partying at Haas together. tR and I never would, though we might enjoy talking up hoops and stuff together at the bar - but it would end badly. I don't like Arizona, despite the fact that my 90 year old great aunt still lives in Tucson!

    I don't think I've ever defended WB in a "WB<--->tR" faceoff. I only laughed with WB as he told tR that tR's prognostication that the Harrison twins wouldn't sign with UK was completely wrong with his simple "they signed, dumbass" retort. That had nothing to do with Cal, and it was all tR's formula for trying to discredit UK as a challenger to AZ for AG, JP, and others.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SonomaBear View Post
    Here you go:
    College coaching careerMontgomery compiled a 547244 (.692) overall record in 18 years at Stanford (19862004) and eight seasons at the University of Montana (19781986). He boasts 25 winning seasons in his 26 years as a head coach at both Stanford and Montana. Montgomery's Stanford teams reached the NCAA tournament ten straight times from 1995 to 2004. Stanford reached the Final Four under Montgomery in 1998, the school's first Final Four appearance in 56 years. He made his third appearance along the USA Basketball sidelines in 2002 when he was named an assistant under George Karl for the US national team in the 2002 FIBA World Championship.[1]

    In 2000, Montgomery was named the Naismith and Basketball Times Coach of the Year. He was also named the Pac-10 Coach of the Year four times. Following his career at Stanford, he was awarded the John R. Wooden Legends of Coaching Lifetime Achievement Award.

    Now why don't you come up with something supporting Willie's line of B.S. without providing any specifics?
    Those are certainly all great credentials, and I am not here in any way to slam MM or try to convince you that he sucks, because I don't believe that at all!!! But, if you were a betting man, would you put money on it that he gets to The HOF? Great credentials, but only so many get thru each year and how many guys might be in line before him. Make that list, and make a list of guys nipping at his heels. Honestly, give it a try. Then place your bet where appropriate. Hey, I definitely hope I'm wrong, and last year I was all about, "hey, MM is HOF material!" But then I thought more about it, and I think he needs to keep coaching and achieving to get there. I hope he does!

    I'd admit that there are more coaches in the HOF that I would have suspected, and that many of the guys I deemed "ahead" of MM are already in there, wow. Perhaps they should slow down on the election of coaches and add in more players. We could have a separate thread on this - handicapping who the next 5-10 coaches in the HOF will be.

    There is nothing I can say to substantiate or give ANY credibility to WB. Nothing. But that doesn't mean he's not real and that it's not true.

  13. #28
    Real Bear
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    Quote Originally Posted by concordtom View Post
    1) Why shouldn't I believe him? He's given more clues as to his identity than either you or I.
    Not true, I've been on this board since its inception, and the West Coast Hoops board before that. There is a decade of transparency in my posts here.

    2) All he's done is tell some parts of "his" story, whether it's to be believed or not. I don't think his points are invalid - we just don't like them b/c we didn't get ML and he is telling us why. So, in turn, we bash him? For what? I think he's valid to laugh at our reaction.
    It's the no specifics thing, plus we don't know him OR his potential other motives. Also, Monty finished 2nd in this recruitment to National Brand Kentucky, so the "facts" don't exactly support Willie either.

    3) Please detail for me MM's Naismith HOF credentials. Please start be reviewing where he ranks on the list of all time winningest coaches (on wikipedia), where he ranks in terms of Sweet 16's, Elite 8's, Final Fours and Championship appearances. IMHO, if MM can't get to 700 wins and/or Cal to a Final Four, then it's not going to happen. He'll need to coach for 4 more years at a minimum, and I DEFINITELY hope that happens. But, there are others presumably in line before him, and who is coming up from behind that will leapfrog him while he waits?
    See above, plus Monty is already in the Long Beach HOF, will be in the Stanford HOF, and Pac10 HOF, and in all likelyhood the Naismith HOF as well. Are you REALLY questioning what he's done as a hoops coach??? What's your motive here?

    4) Why does supporting someone's comments here have to be debased to "hanging all up his jock"? As I said before, you lower your own credibility, your arguments carry less weight, when you use distasteful language and take the debate into the gutter.
    Just curious about your motivation. Others are too.

    5) If you posit that WB has nothing to do with ML, that his testament is a complete lie from an outsider designed to slam MM for some personal agenda - okay, that could be true. I understand that, and hopefully everyone else here does as well.
    Personal agenda, yes.

    6) Otherwise, if WB is telling the truth, then he certainly adds some insight for us, doesn't he? It's a fan board, and this falls under the category. I don't think comments are limited/censured to "positivity only", are they?
    See my comments on Firing Tedford and Firing Braun many years before

  14. #29
    ct, I just wish you would have waited to see if Willie would answer my questions before jumping in and answering for him. Maybe he will still answer; maybe he never would have answered regardless. Either way I don't see what it had to do with you, and I guess at least one other person sees it that way too. No offense, but I'd rather hear Willie's take on why Willie says what he says than yours.

  15. #30
    Just see the italics for my responses: Plain text and Bold is old news.

    1) Why shouldn't I believe him? He's given more clues as to his identity than either you or I.
    Not true, I've been on this board since its inception, and the West Coast Hoops board before that. There is a decade of transparency in my posts here.
    Okay, well, I haven't read all your posts, though I've seen your name, so I don't know you and haven't inferred an identity. That's okay. I guess your point is that WB is new to posting and so what's his "angle" - whereas your angle is known for 10 years as a Bear supporter. Cool!

    2) All he's done is tell some parts of "his" story, whether it's to be believed or not. I don't think his points are invalid - we just don't like them b/c we didn't get ML and he is telling us why. So, in turn, we bash him? For what? I think he's valid to laugh at our reaction.
    It's the no specifics thing, plus we don't know him OR his potential other motives. Also, Monty finished 2nd in this recruitment to National Brand Kentucky, so the "facts" don't exactly support Willie either.
    Well, I take it he doesn't want to get too specific because then his identity will truly be known. There were probably already only a few people in the recruiting room (in house) that WB described. Those present should already know who he is.

    3) Please detail for me MM's Naismith HOF credentials. Please start be reviewing where he ranks on the list of all time winningest coaches (on wikipedia), where he ranks in terms of Sweet 16's, Elite 8's, Final Fours and Championship appearances. IMHO, if MM can't get to 700 wins and/or Cal to a Final Four, then it's not going to happen. He'll need to coach for 4 more years at a minimum, and I DEFINITELY hope that happens. But, there are others presumably in line before him, and who is coming up from behind that will leapfrog him while he waits?
    See above, plus Monty is already in the Long Beach HOF, will be in the Stanford HOF, and Pac10 HOF, and in all likelyhood the Naismith HOF as well. Are you REALLY questioning what he's done as a hoops coach??? What's your motive here?
    I have no motive to slam MM. I was just talking it through and a speculative fan. Seriously, make your list of who the next coaches are to go into the HOF. Maybe MM is up at the top. Great! But I do point out that he has only 1 FF appearance, only 3 Sweet 16's, and that's not much, you have to admit! Hey, here's a neat list of coaches and their NCAA tournament wins: http://www.dbwoerner.com/basketball/hofframe.html

    4) Why does supporting someone's comments here have to be debased to "hanging all up his jock"? As I said before, you lower your own credibility, your arguments carry less weight, when you use distasteful language and take the debate into the gutter.
    Just curious about your motivation. Others are too.
    My motivation? I'm just a fan who likes to watch and talk Cal sports. My family started going to Berkeley over 100 years ago, great aunts and uncles. My grandparents met there. My grandfather was in the band. My parents met there. My aunt went there. My sister went there. I've spent the majority of my life in the East Bay between Oakland and Concord. The family has had prime football tickets since before I was born. I grew up hating the Red Shirt, was at The Play. What more do you want? Now go ahead and slander me, too. Put me in a box of what kind of idiot you think I am. But there's no need to question my motivation, as if I were some sort of outsider trying to bring down Cal!

    5) If you posit that WB has nothing to do with ML, that his testament is a complete lie from an outsider designed to slam MM for some personal agenda - okay, that could be true. I understand that, and hopefully everyone else here does as well.
    Personal agenda, yes.
    Maybe so.
    6) Otherwise, if WB is telling the truth, then he certainly adds some insight for us, doesn't he? It's a fan board, and this falls under the category. I don't think comments are limited/censured to "positivity only", are they?
    See my comments on Firing Tedford and Firing Braun many years before
    I'd really rather not go hunting and chasing for it. If you want to summarize here, fine. But I don't know why you would bring this up because I would not support any discussion of replacing MM until HE DECIDES to retire.

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