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Thread: Concussions

  1. #1

    Concussions

    Went to a dinner where a neuroscience heavyweight spoke, and a short period of time was spent discussing eliminating the impacts of brain trauma. A lot (i.e., most) of the discussion was above my pay grade, but basically there is process that is accelerated where asctrocytes eat synapses when brain trauma occurs and neuroscientists can now see and test this process (this advance has occurred in the last year or two). When more synapses are being destroyed than being formed (when you get older), the brain shrinks, plaque develops and the result is various brain disorders. So the two takeaways that were discussed for football is: (1) you should be able to monitor the brain in a way to tell when players are over concussions and can play; and importantly (2) there are two drugs on the market right now that could be given at the time of the concussion that will slow down the acceleration synapses destruction, eliminating, or at lessening, the long term impacts of concussions. This well take a few years to get approved given the archaic US regulatory system and probably will be used in other countries first (and I'm not saying the names of the meds less I start an investment bubble on the companies that produce the drug). So the "cure" to concussions may be in medicine rathe than helmets, though from a player's and team's standpoint, not getting the concussion in the first place clearly is preferable. Also, this is not cure for syndromes related to repetitive head impacts, that are not concussions.

    Another item that was discussed is that Furd named a neuroscientist as its new President, and surprisingly, did not elevate their provost, which is a break from past practice. The neuroscientist is replacing a President who was an electrical engineer, perhaps, at least symbolically, denoting a changing in the guard in where academic science is headed.

    All that aside, concussions and repetitive impact syndromes are a long run threat to the game (most parents I know would not let the son play football), and science hopefully is the answer to this threat.

  2. #2
    CTE being discussed on KQED Forum right now. 88.5 on the FM dial. On the interwebs:
    http://www.kqed.org/radio/programs/forum/

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
    Went to a dinner where a neuroscience heavyweight spoke, and a short period of time was spent discussing eliminating the impacts of brain trauma. A lot (i.e., most) of the discussion was above my pay grade, but basically there is process that is accelerated where asctrocytes eat synapses when brain trauma occurs and neuroscientists can now see and test this process (this advance has occurred in the last year or two). When more synapses are being destroyed than being formed (when you get older), the brain shrinks, plaque develops and the result is various brain disorders. So the two takeaways that were discussed for football is: (1) you should be able to monitor the brain in a way to tell when players are over concussions and can play; and importantly (2) there are two drugs on the market right now that could be given at the time of the concussion that will slow down the acceleration synapses destruction, eliminating, or at lessening, the long term impacts of concussions. This well take a few years to get approved given the archaic US regulatory system and probably will be used in other countries first (and I'm not saying the names of the meds less I start an investment bubble on the companies that produce the drug). So the "cure" to concussions may be in medicine rathe than helmets, though from a player's and team's standpoint, not getting the concussion in the first place clearly is preferable. Also, this is not cure for syndromes related to repetitive head impacts, that are not concussions.

    Another item that was discussed is that Furd named a neuroscientist as its new President, and surprisingly, did not elevate their provost, which is a break from past practice. The neuroscientist is replacing a President who was an electrical engineer, perhaps, at least symbolically, denoting a changing in the guard in where academic science is headed.

    All that aside, concussions and repetitive impact syndromes are a long run threat to the game (most parents I know would not let the son play football), and science hopefully is the answer to this threat.
    Does this neuroscientist have a name?
    And....... are you (he) suggesting one should in the future, or one should now, be able to monitor the brain to tell if concussion healed?
    As well as.....
    If there are "two drugs on the market right now", then FDA has already approved them. Perhaps you mean, drugs in development.

    Again....no helmet can prevent concussions. The concussion occurs by having the brain rattle around in the fluid, slamming into the skull wall, as well as tearing fibers.
    Figure out how to "freeze" the cerebral fluid, making the brain stationary, and you might solve the concussion problem.....and create another problem.
    Cheers!!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
    Went to a dinner where a neuroscience heavyweight spoke, and a short period of time was spent discussing eliminating the impacts of brain trauma. A lot (i.e., most) of the discussion was above my pay grade, but basically there is process that is accelerated where asctrocytes eat synapses when brain trauma occurs and neuroscientists can now see and test this process (this advance has occurred in the last year or two). When more synapses are being destroyed than being formed (when you get older), the brain shrinks, plaque develops and the result is various brain disorders. So the two takeaways that were discussed for football is: (1) you should be able to monitor the brain in a way to tell when players are over concussions and can play; and importantly (2) there are two drugs on the market right now that could be given at the time of the concussion that will slow down the acceleration synapses destruction, eliminating, or at lessening, the long term impacts of concussions. This well take a few years to get approved given the archaic US regulatory system and probably will be used in other countries first (and I'm not saying the names of the meds less I start an investment bubble on the companies that produce the drug). So the "cure" to concussions may be in medicine rathe than helmets, though from a player's and team's standpoint, not getting the concussion in the first place clearly is preferable. Also, this is not cure for syndromes related to repetitive head impacts, that are not concussions.

    Another item that was discussed is that Furd named a neuroscientist as its new President, and surprisingly, did not elevate their provost, which is a break from past practice. The neuroscientist is replacing a President who was an electrical engineer, perhaps, at least symbolically, denoting a changing in the guard in where academic science is headed.

    All that aside, concussions and repetitive impact syndromes are a long run threat to the game (most parents I know would not let the son play football), and science hopefully is the answer to this threat.
    It's not too difficult to figure out which bios are working on this.

  5. #5
    Dr. Omalu, who was portrayed in the movie Concussion, is coming to my classroom to talk to my physio students in two weeks. I'm really interested to hear what he might suggest as a solution besides just banning football.. I wonder if he has seen the brain from a former boxer? I can't imagine they all escape CTE's??

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bears2thDoc View Post
    Does this neuroscientist have a name?
    And....... are you (he) suggesting one should in the future, or one should now, be able to monitor the brain to tell if concussion healed?
    As well as.....
    If there are "two drugs on the market right now", then FDA has already approved them. Perhaps you mean, drugs in development.

    Again....no helmet can prevent concussions. The concussion occurs by having the brain rattle around in the fluid, slamming into the skull wall, as well as tearing fibers.
    Figure out how to "freeze" the cerebral fluid, making the brain stationary, and you might solve the concussion problem.....and create another problem.
    Cheers!!
    The drugs are on the market now.

    Cal-Furd are also working on drugs that will impact more than the injury (reverse brain deterioration), but that is in development and shows how schools have become entrepreneurial. So if you hear about a bunch of post-docs leaving to form a company...

    I don't know enough about concussions to discuss helmets and equipment, but that and the limiting of certain types of collisions is where the NFL is at the moment. They don't want hear about any of this neuroscience stuff.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
    The drugs are on the market now.

    Cal-Furd are also working on drugs that will impact more than the injury (reverse brain deterioration), but that is in development and shows how schools have become entrepreneurial. So if you hear about a bunch of post-docs leaving to form a company...

    I don't know enough about concussions to discuss helmets and equipment, but that and the limiting of certain types of collisions is where the NFL is at the moment. They don't want hear about any of this neuroscience stuff.
    Huge market for ALZ and brain injury treatments.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bears2thDoc View Post
    Does this neuroscientist have a name?
    And....... are you (he) suggesting one should in the future, or one should now, be able to monitor the brain to tell if concussion healed?
    As well as.....
    If there are "two drugs on the market right now", then FDA has already approved them. Perhaps you mean, drugs in development.

    Again....no helmet can prevent concussions. The concussion occurs by having the brain rattle around in the fluid, slamming into the skull wall, as well as tearing fibers.
    Figure out how to "freeze" the cerebral fluid, making the brain stationary, and you might solve the concussion problem.....and create another problem.
    Cheers!!
    I'm assuming he meant the two drugs are on the market, but are not approved for this treatment, which would require additional FDA testing and approval, just like the fact that minoxidil was actually developed as a blood-pressure drug, and was only discovered as a hair grower as a side effect.

  9. #9
    He actually spoke last night in SF. He does not oppose banning football, on personal freedom grounds, according to the Mercury-News account of his talk. He did say that kids should not play it, because they are more susceptible to brain injury than adults.

  10. #10
    Again, does this guy have a name?

    Off-label use of drugs is common.
    I'm guessing one of them is IV magnesium and pure oxygen inhalation.

    You don't have to know about helmets and equipment to know that the brain sits in fluid and moves around within the skull.
    Transitional (x,y,z axis) and rotational (pitch, roll, yawl)forces are involved.
    Helmets can't prevent those.
    Helmets prevent skull fracture.

    cheers!
    Go Bears!!
    Last edited by Bears2thDoc; 02-05-2016 at 02:46 PM.

  11. #11
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    ...and now this...

    LINK: Goodell warns of “risk” in sitting on the couch

    Consider this a friendly warning: — watching Super Bowl 50 on your couch could bring unexpected danger.

    NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell suggested as much near the end of his annual state-of-the-league news conference Friday in San Francisco. One reporter pointed out that seven high-school football players died this past season as a result of injuries sustained in games or practices. Then the reporter asked Goodell if he still felt comfortable encouraging parents to let their teenage sons play football.

    Goodell called the high-school deaths “tragic” and defended his league’s work in developing better coaching and better tackling techniques.

    And his personal take on the matter?

    “From my standpoint, I played football for nine years through high school and I wouldn’t give up a single day of that,” he said. “If I had a son, I’d love to have him play the game of football because of the values you get. There’s risk in life. There’s risk in sitting on the couch.”

    Goodell’s comment, not surprisingly, sparked widespread mocking on social media. Consider one tweet from a man named Brennan Sommers: “Um no. I don't expect to get knocked out crossing the middle of my living room when reaching for 7 layer dip Sunday.”

    Click through the gallery to see more Twitter reactions to Goodell's remark.

    Ron Kroichick is a San Francisco Chronicle staff writer.

  12. #12
    “From my standpoint, I played football for nine years through high school and I wouldn’t give up a single day of that,” ... There’s risk in life. There’s risk in sitting on the couch.”

    Sadly, that sounds like the statement of a guy who may have played too much football.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Go!Bears View Post
    “From my standpoint, I played football for nine years through high school and I wouldn’t give up a single day of that,”
    That is REALLY FUNNY!
    LOL!!!

  14. #14
    I played at cal around 1960. the average lineman was around 200-210 lbs. there were no size enhancing drugs, no wt-lifting and no off season programs. I recall 1 concussion in my 4 yrs at cal. I mean 1 total concussion of all the players. I then coached hi-school ball for close to 30 yrs up to 1990. I do not recall a single concussion suffered by any player.

    through the years tho along came the drugs, lifting programs and the size,speed and strength that accompany those things and also along with the added size,speed and strength came the concussions.

    also came the increase in games played both at the college and pro level. pro players today play 2 seasons in 1 as compared to 40 years ago.

    have u ever seen the driver ed film that shows 2 cars hitting head on travelling at either 5 or 10 mph. the collision was horrific. that is exactly what is happening in todays game.

    here are the solutions

    no wt lifting
    no off season programs
    wt limits for positions- that in no case would exceed 250 lbs

    is it going to happen???? no way

    so the other solution is that football will be a way out of the ghetto and only ghetto kids will play. sad- it was a great game

  15. #15
    Interesting that so much of the discussion you attended seems to have discussed concussive forces. Whereas Forum's discussion talked about these forces, but more importantly, the multitude of sub-concussive forces that a football player's brain sustains throughout a career. Sounds like the drugs being developed are designed to mitigate the effects of concussion. If this is the case, which is obviously an assumption on my part, then this won't even come close to addressing the issue of CTE.



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