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SacCityBear SacCityBear is offline
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Pac-16 Expansion: What if someone balks? - 09-05-2011, 03:26 PM

Lost in the discussion of a possible Pac-12 expansion to 16 is the fact that the fan bases of the 4 schools who gave up absolutely nothing in regards to Pac-12 expansion/divisional alignment (Arizona, ASU, Utah*, and Colorado) are largely opposed to expansion if it puts them into an eastern division with the Texas and Oklahoma schools. As the solutions to that ("zipper" or "pod" divisions) are either against NCAA rules or were nixed by Larry Scott last time around as being too hard to market, there is the distinct possibility that those schools could balk and prevent further conference expansion because they consider the increase in revenue to be not worth being separated from the state of California.

The question is: what does the conference do if Oklahoma/Texas want in but Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado don't want them?

*Note: Yes, Utah agreed to a staggered revenue sharing, but even without television revenue this year, they are making more than last year and every successive year is a huge financial windfall.

Personally:
I'm not sure what the rules are regarding conference expulsion are and I know it goes against the idea that the conference is an equal partnership, but I'd follow a vote against expansion with a vote towards expelling the schools that voted against expansion. (If that isn't viable for whatever reason, have the Pac-8 schools leave and dissolve the conference)

Colorado and Utah were brought in solely for the money (Colorado originally as part of a Pac-16), so it is not like this is a completely new idea being sprung upon them. The money was more than expected, but not enough to push everyone so far into the black that they can just give up additional revenue. Balking now would show that they are unwilling to make the sacrifices for the greater good that every other school made and as such are schools with which I would have no desire for Cal to be associated.
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Cal84 Cal84 is offline
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09-05-2011, 03:59 PM

You ask a very good question. If you peruse the Utah and Colorado fansites, you'll see that they are vehemently against bringing in Texas. Perhaps less so for Okie and Okie Lite. Actually some of it is rather funny, especially when the Utah and Coloado partisans start dissing Okie Lite as being academically inappropriate in a conference that includes themselves, Furd and Cal. Hahaha....

But back to our topic....I'd be surprised if last year's offer to Utah and Colorado wasn't contingent on them not blocking a 2010 move to also bring in the Four Stooges. After all, that was the plan. Whether such a clause would also extend to 2011...well who knows?
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SacCityBear SacCityBear is offline
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09-05-2011, 07:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Cal84 View Post
But back to our topic....I'd be surprised if last year's offer to Utah and Colorado wasn't contingent on them not blocking a 2010 move to also bring in the Four Stooges. After all, that was the plan. Whether such a clause would also extend to 2011...well who knows?
As all 6 schools would have joined the conference at the same time, they would have had no standing to prevent expansion.

And even if Utah and Colorado agreed to not block the move, Arizona and Arizona State could. Unless things have changed, expansion required a unanimous vote.
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FiatSlug FiatSlug is online now
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09-05-2011, 07:37 PM

There's no invitation without Larry Scott having authorization to extend same.

Same as it was last year. Book it.
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SacCityBear SacCityBear is offline
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09-05-2011, 07:47 PM

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There's no invitation without Larry Scott having authorization to extend same.

Same as it was last year. Book it.
If Larry Scott goes to the University Presidents and says that Texas/OU/et all want to come and Arizona/ASU/Colorado/Utah say no, you cannot invite them, it is essentially the same thing.
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Cal84 Cal84 is offline
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09-05-2011, 07:51 PM

I think DoubleD is saying that such an action was pre-approved last year. Whether such authorization was for a window of time that extends through this year or another authorization is required is another question.
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FiatSlug FiatSlug is online now
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09-05-2011, 07:53 PM

Do you think that the University presidents and chancellors haven't yet given their assent?

If they haven't, then why hasn't there been talk to that effect?

Logically speaking, the question at the outset of this thread makes no sense. How is it that if someone currently in the Pac-12 membership objects to inviting Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and/or Oklahoma State, those objections have not been aired or been reported?

Fans with Colorado, Utah, and the Arizona schools may not like the idea of Texas joining the Pac-12, but it doesn't mean that they call the shots, nor does it mean they reflect the positions of their respective university CEO.
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LafayetteBear LafayetteBear is offline
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09-05-2011, 09:09 PM

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Originally Posted by DavidDempster View Post
Do you think that the University presidents and chancellors haven't yet given their assent?

If they haven't, then why hasn't there been talk to that effect?

Logically speaking, the question at the outset of this thread makes no sense. How is it that if someone currently in the Pac-12 membership objects to inviting Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and/or Oklahoma State, those objections have not been aired or been reported?

Fans with Colorado, Utah, and the Arizona schools may not like the idea of Texas joining the Pac-12, but it doesn't mean that they call the shots, nor does it mean they reflect the positions of their respective university CEO.
Seems logical to me, DD, but we'll soon find out in any event.
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ninetyfourbear ninetyfourbear is offline
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09-05-2011, 11:59 PM

IIRC, Utah does not get a vote for another year or two.
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SacCityBear SacCityBear is offline
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09-06-2011, 06:36 PM

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Originally Posted by DavidDempster View Post
Logically speaking, the question at the outset of this thread makes no sense. How is it that if someone currently in the Pac-12 membership objects to inviting Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and/or Oklahoma State, those objections have not been aired or been reported?
University of Colorado president Bruce Benson said this morning he is wary of further Pac-12 expansion, particularly if Colorado is placed in an "East" division with former rivals from the Big 12 such as Oklahoma and Texas.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18834617
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BearLineman BearLineman is offline
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09-06-2011, 06:45 PM

This is a big money deal with a tremendous amount of public interest. I cant see Scott agreeing to anything of this magnitude without prior approval of the schools...not approving for admission but even talking about it.

Didnt the schools give Scott permission to expand at will?
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Cal_Fan2 Cal_Fan2 is offline
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09-06-2011, 06:48 PM

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Originally Posted by BearLineman View Post
This is a big money deal with a tremendous amount of public interest. I cant see Scott agreeing to anything of this magnitude without prior approval of the schools...not approving for admission but even talking about it.

Didnt the schools give Scott permission to expand at will?
Not sure if at will be he had prior approval to expand to 16...not sure why it still isn't in force....it could end up the pretty much the same teams as last year... not sure why the Pac 12 would scoff now if they approved it before
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BearLineman BearLineman is offline
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09-06-2011, 07:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Cal_Fan2 View Post
Not sure if at will be he had prior approval to expand to 16...not sure why it still isn't in force....it could end up the pretty much the same teams as last year... not sure why the Pac 12 would scoff now if they approved it before
Trying to find it...i remember him getting approval last year. Cant find if it expired with the CU/Utah deal. Sounds like all hell is about to break loose with word of aTm invitation. Gonna be a fun ride.
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Cal_Fan2 Cal_Fan2 is offline
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09-06-2011, 07:07 PM

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Originally Posted by BearLineman View Post
Trying to find it...i remember him getting approval last year. Cant find if it expired with the CU/Utah deal. Sounds like all hell is about to break loose with word of aTm invitation. Gonna be a fun ride.
yup...

http://bearinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46688

I'd love to know what you found about last years deal.... popcorn time..
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FiatSlug FiatSlug is online now
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Colorado doesn't have a vote this year - 09-06-2011, 07:25 PM

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Originally Posted by SacCityBear View Post
University of Colorado president Bruce Benson said this morning he is wary of further Pac-12 expansion, particularly if Colorado is placed in an "East" division with former rivals from the Big 12 such as Oklahoma and Texas.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18834617
Ergo, they can't block expansion.
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