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  (#31) Old
sluggo_Cal sluggo_Cal is online now
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03-19-2012, 10:02 PM

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Originally Posted by HoopDreams View Post
IMHO, DeBears has lots of credibility.

If true (and I believe it is) then we just lost a prototype Cal/Monty player. To me he is EXACTLY the type of player we want at Cal. It's a big blow to the program because I think he is an elite shooter, has high hoops IQ (judging from his HS and AAU background + what I heard and saw from him), and a good student and representative for the University (judging from his leadership in the Cal NCAA sports/academic org).

Wish Rossi the best. Sorry it didn't work out for you here. Sorry, no way to paint any upside on this one.
Huge loss. If you assume Cobbs, Crabbe, Kreklow, Kravish and Solomon start, then the bench next year is two freshmen (one of whom is a project) and guys who either can't play or probably can't play (I will let you decide who is in what category, I have my opinions). Rossi was someone I thought could play, both from his limited minutes and his background.

Cal needs a power player and a wing in the spring in the worst way.

Sluggo
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calumnus calumnus is offline
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03-19-2012, 10:47 PM

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Originally Posted by sluggo_Cal View Post
Huge loss. If you assume Cobbs, Crabbe, Kreklow, Kravish and Solomon start, then the bench next year is two freshmen (one of whom is a project) and guys who either can't play or probably can't play (I will let you decide who is in what category, I have my opinions). Rossi was someone I thought could play, both from his limited minutes and his background.

Cal needs a power player and a wing in the spring in the worst way.

Sluggo
Hard to say how huge the loss of Rossi is. We may never know. Like I said though, the few minutes I saw him play I could say Powers looked better than Rossi--similar but stronger, better athlete and a better shooter.

Cobbs, Crabbe, Kreklow, Kravish, and Solomon with Wallace and Thurman first guard and big off the bench with at least one other player stepping up is not horrible. If we can get someone who is an upgrade over any of those guys, great, but if we see normal progression we have already seen from these players under Monty I don't think that team does worse than this years team.

Last edited by calumnus; 03-19-2012 at 10:52 PM.
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tsubamoto2001 tsubamoto2001 is online now
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03-19-2012, 11:00 PM

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Originally Posted by calumnus View Post
Hard to say how huge the loss of Rossi is. We may never know. Like I said though, the few minutes I saw him play I could say Powers looked better than Rossi--similar but stronger, better athlete and a better shooter.

Cobbs, Crabbe, Kreklow, Kravish, and Solomon with Wallace and Thurman first guard and big off the bench with at least one other player stepping up is not horrible. If we can get someone who is an upgrade over any of those guys, great, but if we see normal progression we have already seen from these players under Monty I don't think that team does worse than this years team.
If you think Powers, a walk-on, is better than Rossi, what does that say about Monty's ability to evaluate and recruit?
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alarsuel alarsuel is offline
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03-19-2012, 11:32 PM

How can this be seen as negative? Rossi either wasn't good enough or healthy enought to play. Now we get a chance to replace him 2 years early. Hopefully Smith, Bak, Behrens, and Murray have "family issues" too.
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LessMilesMoreTedford LessMilesMoreTedford is offline
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03-19-2012, 11:52 PM

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Originally Posted by alarsuel View Post
How can this be seen as negative? Rossi either wasn't good enough or healthy enought to play. Now we get a chance to replace him 2 years early. Hopefully Smith, Bak, Behrens, and Murray have "family issues" too.
Nice that you treat our basketball players like disposable employees. Nick Saban would be proud of you.
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6956bear 6956bear is offline
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03-20-2012, 02:41 AM

Crabbe is Cal's best outside threat. He can get hot and put up points in a hurry. The opponents do make him a priority. He needed to play big minutes. That does not mean Monty needed to play him 36 minutes. He could have played the bench (Rossi, Behrens) more.

We all know Crabbe has some limitations and he did wear down, but is a very important piece in what Cal does. Besides Kreklow for next year, Cal is also recruiting Jabari Bird and others that project at Rossi's position. I take this at face value and hope for the best for Alex. Monty and his staff need to get out on the road and find some players.
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Civil Bear Civil Bear is offline
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03-20-2012, 05:46 AM

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Originally Posted by alarsuel View Post
How can this be seen as negative? Rossi either wasn't good enough or healthy enought to play. Now we get a chance to replace him 2 years early. Hopefully Smith, Bak, Behrens, and Murray have "family issues" too.
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DaBears24 DaBears24 is offline
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03-20-2012, 06:53 AM

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Originally Posted by alarsuel View Post
How can this be seen as negative? Rossi either wasn't good enough or healthy enought to play. Now we get a chance to replace him 2 years early. Hopefully Smith, Bak, Behrens, and Murray have "family issues" too.
it's negative b/c you're not looking at the big picture...we had serious depth issues this year and now we're losing Jorge, Kamp and Rossi and we could lose others. Next year we're just not going to be that good, period. It's not b/c Rossi won't be here but it will be, in part, because we have walk-ons playing serious minutes.

Also, to say he wasn't healthy or good enough is negative because it seems like you're saying he couldn't get healthy...well at one point Kamp wasn't healthy enough to play and he came back and did a great job for us. Rossi was healthy enough to play in all of 2012.
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bluesaxe bluesaxe is offline
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03-20-2012, 06:58 AM

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Originally Posted by tsubamoto2001 View Post
If you think Powers, a walk-on, is better than Rossi, what does that say about Monty's ability to evaluate and recruit?
Not a thing. He just isn't.
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bluesaxe bluesaxe is offline
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03-20-2012, 07:05 AM

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Originally Posted by tsubamoto2001 View Post
This. Crabbe ain't Ray Allen. Or even Klay Thompson. He wore down as the season went along and really didn't impact the game that he needed to be out there as much as he was.
I think he was pretty essential, actually. Everyone is talking about shooting, but Crabbe defended and rebounded as well. His replacement, whoever it was, would not do nearly what he did. Sure, a few minutes more rest per game would have been nice, but it's silly to short-sell Crabbe to make the point.
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tsubamoto2001 tsubamoto2001 is online now
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03-20-2012, 07:05 AM

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Originally Posted by DaBears24 View Post
it's negative b/c you're not looking at the big picture...we had serious depth issues this year and now we're losing Jorge, Kamp and Rossi and we could lose others. Next year we're just not going to be that good, period. It's not b/c Rossi won't be here but it will be, in part, because we have walk-ons playing serious minutes.

Also, to say he wasn't healthy or good enough is negative because it seems like you're saying he couldn't get healthy...well at one point Kamp wasn't healthy enough to play and he came back and did a great job for us. Rossi was healthy enough to play in all of 2012.
Bingo.
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DaBears24 DaBears24 is offline
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this is funny... - 03-20-2012, 07:13 AM

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Originally Posted by calumnus View Post
Hard to say how huge the loss of Rossi is. We may never know. Like I said though, the few minutes I saw him play I could say Powers looked better than Rossi--similar but stronger, better athlete and a better shooter.

Cobbs, Crabbe, Kreklow, Kravish, and Solomon with Wallace and Thurman first guard and big off the bench with at least one other player stepping up is not horrible. If we can get someone who is an upgrade over any of those guys, great, but if we see normal progression we have already seen from these players under Monty I don't think that team does worse than this years team.
I'm not sure what you saw in Powers to say he was a better athlete as I saw ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he did as being even remotely athletic. Say what you want about Rossi, but to say Powers was 1. better and 2. more athletic is delusional. And "a better shooter" are you high? Rossi was considered one of the top shooters in the COUNTRY what did ESPN or Rivals say about Powers?.....oh that's right they only ranked good to decent players...not D3 level players (and I almost feel like apologizing to D3 players with that). Here's the link: http://insider.espn.go.com/college-s..._%3dalex-rossi

This post exemplifies what's wrong with the average Cal fan....you're defending a walk on who isn't good...period. Powers is a walk on and not even a good one. The fact that he played any meaningful minutes at all shows the seriousness of our depth issues. I have insights into practice and I can tell you flat out that Rossi is much more athletic than given credit for on this board - I saw, with my own eyes him, in practice have several very impressive dunks in half court sets. I also saw Murray play extremely well in practice for stretches that lasted days, not just minutes. Murray may not have been highly recruited, but he is a great athlete, probably the best on the team (with Solomon in the discussion) and that's the kind of kid we should be developing because at least he has upside...unlike Smith and Bak and yes, even Powers. I'll say this right now, if Powers is playing next year....at all....then we're not going to be good...that's not even debatable in my mind. Rossi on the other hand had tons of offers from high major programs and got hurt...so therefore he's suddenly seen as "not good enough", which is just stupid. Had I no insights into practice at all and just listened to what the announcers said about him on TV during the games he played in and then took what I saw of his jump shot (how quick it is along with how good it looks) I'd have to assume that he has major upside. Good teams have guys like that coming off the bench...not walk ons.

There is an assumption that if Monty doesn't play someone it's because they're not good or in Rossi's case, because he's hurt. Is it at all possible that it's because he's too set in his ways to change and that his stubbornness may have hurt the team a little this year? My thought is along the lines of others on this board....what would it have hurt to play Rossi, Murray and Christian more???......knowing that the end result of playing our starters so much would be that they got tired and less productive I think the risk of those 3 not doing well would have been worth it. Also, to blindly support the coaches views on things means that one must have thought that Smith and Bak were actually doing better than I and most others thought. You don't get it both ways..."in Monty we trust" and "Smith sucked" - he's the one who continued to play Smith despite one horrid performance after another. (as a side note, I think Smith could have been handled differently to avoid him having a complete lack of confidence which in turn led him to play scared and thus poorly).

Also, as another poster mentioned in a different thread, we haven't heard much about Ricky this year in practice and when compared to all the talk about Cobbs doing so well last year it makes one wonder how good he will be. I tend to agree with the thought that Ricky will start next year as I know coach likes him (although coach liked Smith this year too) but I saw Cobbs last year and knew in 2 minutes that he'd start and said as much on hear very early in the season last year. Nobody is saying that about Ricky yet we're willing to pencil him in as a starter as if he's some sort of savior....I just wouldn't get my hopes up that high.

Last edited by DaBears24; 03-20-2012 at 07:17 AM.
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RollOn RollOn is offline
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03-20-2012, 07:34 AM

Rossi's gone - sad but true. To me this seems like an opportunity to free up another schollie and bring in a post player - which we need more desperately then another wing.

Never know what this could mean to the program in the long-term. I'm looking forward to seeing what Monty has in store for this new opening
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tsubamoto2001 tsubamoto2001 is online now
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03-20-2012, 08:14 AM

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Originally Posted by bluesaxe View Post
Not a thing. He just isn't.
Not a thing, eh?

Let's look at his evaluation and recruiting record since he's been here at Cal.

2008:
He gets fortunate (and some may even say "lucky") with Jorge Gutierrez after Garrett Sim decides to ask out of his LOI. There simply wasn't a ton of evaluation or even recruiting going on here. Most high-major prospects are evaluated and courted for at least a year (and longer for the best prospects), while Jorge's process with Cal was literally like two weeks.

2009:
Cal strikes out on most of its top targets and we end up with a class of MSF (good get, Jay John connection from his days in Oregon--as much I bag on John, credit should be given where it's due), Brandon Smith, and Bak. Well MSF is gone, and we are left with a 2012-2013 senior class of Smith, Bak, and Thurman (former walk-on transfer from D-III--Monty's really starting to look like Braun with all these walk-on's; watch Powers get a scholly for next season once we strike out on everyone). Hopefully Smith can recover and be serviceable his SR year. Bak has been Bak and Thurman has been somewhat of a pleasant surprise, but not what you want to depend on as a high-major program with ambition.

2010:
This was supposedly the Class that was going to bring Cal to "prominence." The commitment of Allen Crabbe jump-started the class, which then was followed by commitments from Top 150 players Alex Rossi and Richard Solomon. Then came the unfortunate decision of Monty to reject the verbal commitment of Jordin Mayes and take Gary Franklin's commitment. As he conveniently likes to forget, CalBeast (formerly known as Mike Zillion, Bear Island, genykologist, etc.), along with numerous others, railed on me for saying it was a mistake to take Franklin. After a complete HS season of seeing Franklin prove himself unfit to be Cal's PG of the future, Monty makes a good decision in pursuing and landing Minnesota transfer Justin Cobbs. However, after being out-recruited by Gonzaga for the services of 2011 combo guard Gary Bell, Monty decides to offer Canadian "combo guard" Emerson Murray a day after Bell's commitment to Gonzaga.

As of today, Franklin and Rossi, considered to be two of the best shooters in the HS class of 2010, have left the program. Only Crabbe and Cobbs have made significant contributions on the court thus far. The jury remains out on Solomon and Murray, whose butt must be sore from being glued to the bench for most of the year.

2011:
Coming off a PAC-10 regular season championship, there were big expectations from many fans for a boost in recruiting. However, Cal again missed on many of its top targets (Gary Bell, Kyle Wiltjer, Juan Anderson among others) and ended up securing only the signature of David Kravish, a thin post from Missouri. Kravish was overlooked by local schools Kansas and Missouri due to his frail-looking frame but has proven to be a solid get for Mike Montgomery and could be a possible All-League player as an upperclassman. Once again, Monty is left having to fill up his scholarships with Spring Late Period signees and transfers. This time he procured Ricky Kreklow, a transfer from Missouri (and is apparently the front-runner to replace Jorge next season at the 2) and Christian Behrens, who chose Cal over schools like Seattle and Eastern Washington.

2012:
In a surprising move that caught many fans and observers off guard, Cal accepts an early verbal commitment from a prospect from Colorado named Kaileb Rodriguez. Rodriguez is not projected to be an early contributor but has some athletic upside. Rodriguez is not considered to be as good a prospect as Bak was when he signed with Cal in Fall 2008, but perhaps his career turns out differently, at least we all hope. And once again, Cal struggles to gain traction in recruiting its backyard--the Bay Area--as elite national prospects Brandon Ashley and Dominic Artis, both of whom Cal had been recruiting since their freshman year in HS, both spurned the Bears for other PAC-12 schools. One very positive development was the commitment of Tyrone Wallace, one of the top guards on the West Coast.

Yet again, however, Cal is looking to fill scholarships with Spring Late period signings.

Anything else to add?

Last edited by tsubamoto2001; 03-20-2012 at 08:27 AM.
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  (#45) Old
socaltownie socaltownie is online now
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03-20-2012, 08:28 AM

tsubamoto2001

Here is what I dislike about posts like this - it is a litany of bad news. Yes, our team and program suck. We are cursed as bear fans. Life shits on us along with Bears in the woods.

Whats your answer? Mine is that either Monty Jr. or John Jay gets replaced by a guy who is willing and able to recruit.
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