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concordtom concordtom is offline
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Who is happier with their post-season? Cal, Furd, UW? - 03-24-2012, 07:13 AM

A couple of weeks ago I was on a couple boards over at CGB's and everyone was fretting about what seed in the NCAA we'd get if we were win 1 more Pac12 tourney game. I offered up the concept that it wouldn't be such a bad thing to lose and go to the NIT b/c we didn't have a NCAA level team and our seed would likely mean that we'd get bounced real early. Like, maybe we could win 1 game, but certainly we'd be done quick.

On the flip side, if we were to get dropped to the NIT, we could potentially have a nice post-season run, with a couple of games at Haas and a trip to NYC a distinct possibility. I imagined everyone bringing back the Kamp and Gut heads, the band playing "Jorge, Jorge, Jorge", and Monty relaxing back into his chair during the post-game interviews.

The idea was soundly dumped by those present, and so I quietly went away .

However, now I see UW (14-4 in Pac12) will play Minnesota (6-12 in the Big10), while Stanford (10-8 in Pac12) will play UMass (9-7 in the A10) at Madison Square Garden on Tuesday evening.

What do you all think now?
Would you rather have had Cal's NCAA experience, or still be alive in the NIT?
Is it better to have had 1 night with Gina Lollobrigida, or spent a lifetime with Lucille Ball?

(I will add this. When Cal got the Play-In game, while that is a somewhat insulting game to have to play within the current tournament format, I felt they had a chance to win vs another 12 seed, then a 5 seed, then a 4 seed. Hope had sprung eternal. But, no. They were who I thought they were. And will be again next year, and the year after that. Because Zona and UCLA are loading up, and Monty is recruiting like Monty. But I digress....)
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SacCityBear SacCityBear is offline
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03-24-2012, 07:19 AM

Making the NCAA tournament, even the play-in game, is better than winning the NIT unless you have an extremely young team who can benefit from the additional playing time and use it as a springboard to a deep NCAA tournament run the next year.
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calumnus calumnus is online now
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03-24-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by concordtom View Post
A couple of weeks ago I was on a couple boards over at CGB's and everyone was fretting about what seed in the NCAA we'd get if we were win 1 more Pac12 tourney game. I offered up the concept that it wouldn't be such a bad thing to lose and go to the NIT b/c we didn't have a NCAA level team and our seed would likely mean that we'd get bounced real early. Like, maybe we could win 1 game, but certainly we'd be done quick.

On the flip side, if we were to get dropped to the NIT, we could potentially have a nice post-season run, with a couple of games at Haas and a trip to NYC a distinct possibility. I imagined everyone bringing back the Kamp and Gut heads, the band playing "Jorge, Jorge, Jorge", and Monty relaxing back into his chair during the post-game interviews.

The idea was soundly dumped by those present, and so I quietly went away .

However, now I see UW (14-4 in Pac12) will play Minnesota (6-12 in the Big10), while Stanford (10-8 in Pac12) will play UMass (9-7 in the A10) at Madison Square Garden on Tuesday evening.

What do you all think now?
Would you rather have had Cal's NCAA experience, or still be alive in the NIT?
Is it better to have had 1 night with Gina Lollobrigida, or spent a lifetime with Lucille Ball?

(I will add this. When Cal got the Play-In game, while that is a somewhat insulting game to have to play within the current tournament format, I felt they had a chance to win vs another 12 seed, then a 5 seed, then a 4 seed. Hope had sprung eternal. But, no. They were who I thought they were. And will be again next year, and the year after that. Because Zona and UCLA are loading up, and Monty is recruiting like Monty. But I digress....)
I think you posit two different questions:

1. At the end of the regular season, would you prefer to be in the NCAA or the NIT, knowing of course that you chances of advancing in the NIT are greater?

2. Knowing after the fact that we lost the play-in game of the NCAA and knowing that Stanford and Washington are playing in the NIT Final Four in Madison Square Garden, would you prefer to switch places? Would it be more fun?

I think the answer to #1 is you ALWAYS choose the NCAA. Making the Tournament is the goal for a reason. First you get your name on millions of brackets. Second, there is a chance you will be a Cinderella. A minor leaguer always wants a shot at the majors. You don't turn down a promotion at work. You step up to the challenge even if there is a lot more risk involved than staying at a lower level where you are comfortable.

I think the answer to #2 is yeah, assuming we know we lose the NCAA play-in and know we would be in the NIT Final Four, (if we had a time machine or something) I would have enjoyed the NIT more. You didn't know that going in though. There was a decent chance you lose an NIT game too and a decent chance we win at least one game in the NCAA. For me, if we JUST won that first game, I'm already leaning back toward the NCAA.

Think about it, if we didn't know we would be in the play-in game and lose it, can you imagine how PISSED we would be if the NCAA did not select us with our record and RPI and then we went on to win the NIT, proving in our minds that we should have been in the NCAA all along? The injustice of the Pac-12 only having Colorado in the Tourney? We would not enjoy our NIT victory at all, we would be headed toward NCAA HQs with torches and pitchforks. The only way we could enjoy the NIT run is with the certain knowledge that we would have lost that first NCAA game. So in any real world situation where we don't absolutely know how things turn out, we definitely want the NCAA bid. Thus, I'm not sure UW is enjoying their NIT run much, since they think they were better than us and should have been in the NCAAs. Therefore, of the three schools, I say Stanford is enjoying their postseason the most. They did not expect better than what they are getting.

Last edited by calumnus; 03-24-2012 at 09:10 AM.
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bearister bearister is offline
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03-24-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by concordtom View Post
...On the flip side, if we were to get dropped to the NIT, we could potentially have a nice post-season run, with a couple of games at Haas and a trip to NYC a distinct possibility. I imagined everyone bringing back the Kamp and Gut heads, the band playing "Jorge, Jorge, Jorge", and Monty relaxing back into his chair during the post-game interviews.

....Would you rather have had Cal's NCAA experience, or still be alive in the NIT? Is it better to have had 1 night with Gina Lollobrigida, or spent a lifetime with Lucille Ball?...
1. Much better to keep playing well into a post season, even an NIT post season, to prove to the team and the fans that the team is on track and has good momentum going into next season. I am still trying to figure out how circling the NCAA runway dumping fuel before landing and then crashing in a First Four game was good for team or fans;

2. I would prefer a lifetime with someone who makes me laugh. If being a hot babe was enough, celebrity marriages and relationships would last longer than they do. Besides, Lucille Ball wasn't exactly a dog when she was young (I would take her minus the booze issues, however). P.S. You must be an old dude to mention the names of two women that would only be recognized by someone of my generation.


Last edited by bearister; 03-24-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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GB54 GB54 is offline
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03-24-2012, 08:25 AM

If we won the NIT we would have been subjected to numerous "we were a final four team " posts. It's better to learn where you stand vs the rest of college basketball
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HoopDreams HoopDreams is offline
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03-24-2012, 08:36 AM

NCAA period. NIT is only good if you win it, but NCAA is always better.

Yeah I wanted to see Jorge/Kamp one more time in Haas, but not in the NIT. I don't like long goodbyes and watching them in their last game with 3000 fans in Haas would be a terrible way for them to leave. There could have only been one Jorge Ole Ole Ole moment. I would have wanted to see them one last time, but in Nashville, not Haas.

One of the goals of this team was to go to the Dance. They achieved that goal, and although we flopped it was still better than sitting there on selection Sunday with the last team called, and no Cal. It's also good for the remaining team. They have been there now and that will help them in the future.

What is very disappointing to me however is we made a negative out of a positive. Losing the 'play-in' game means we don't get any post-season bounce from the success we did have. We can say we won 24 games, 2nd in P12, and got to the Big Dance, but people (and teams recruiting against us) will say, 'yeah but...'

It reminds me of when we won the conference championship. We beat WA for championship but they got the 'better' seed and went to the Sweet Sixteen. WA got the big boost from that season.

So as I said before NCAA > NIT, and I mean 100% of the time.

Last edited by HoopDreams; 03-24-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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gobears gobears is online now
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03-24-2012, 09:24 AM

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Originally Posted by HoopDreams View Post
NCAA period. NIT is only good if you win it, but NCAA is always better.

Yeah I wanted to see Jorge/Kamp one more time in Haas, but not in the NIT. I don't like long goodbyes and watching them in their last game with 3000 fans in Haas would be a terrible way for them to leave. There could have only been one Jorge Ole Ole Ole moment. I would have wanted to see them one last time, but in Nashville, not Haas.

One of the goals of this team was to go to the Dance. They achieved that goal, and although we flopped it was still better than sitting there on selection Sunday with the last team called, and no Cal. It's also good for the remaining team. They have been there now and that will help them in the future.

What is very disappointing to me however is we made a negative out of a positive. Losing the 'play-in' game means we don't get any post-season bounce from the success we did have. We can say we won 24 games, 2nd in P12, and got to the Big Dance, but people (and teams recruiting against us) will say, 'yeah but...'

It reminds me of when we won the conference championship. We beat WA for championship but they got the 'better' seed and went to the Sweet Sixteen. WA got the big boost from that season.

So as I said before NCAA > NIT, and I mean 100% of the time.
Stanford by large margin..
they end the season by knocking out the Bears from winning the Pac12 league title... make a nice run in Pac12 playoffs, and now a good run in the NIT.

WU? they win the Pac12 league outright and not invited to NCAA's.. they were scratching their heads, wtF...

Bears? had two chances to take Pac12 league title (or co champs)against teams lower ranked and lost... clear path to take Pac12 playoffs and got booted by CU... (lower ranked)... ending season losing 5 of last 7 games (or something like that, I am trying to forget)..

Cal is not the only team with a sour taste entering the summer.. Duke got spanked good... etc, etc.. so...
a few weeks off, spring break, finals.. and then skills training/body development in preparation for next season.

Last edited by gobears; 03-24-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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Bobodeluxe Bobodeluxe is offline
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Few care about any of these teams. - 03-24-2012, 09:29 AM

They are all PAC 12 quality programs.
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SacCityBear SacCityBear is offline
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03-24-2012, 10:01 AM

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Originally Posted by gobears View Post
Stanford by large margin..
they end the season by knocking out the Bears from winning the Pac12 league title... make a nice run in Pac12 playoffs, and now a good run in the NIT.
Beating ASU does not count as a nice run.
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FingeroftheBear FingeroftheBear is offline
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03-24-2012, 11:07 AM

NCAA > NIT

Cal > UW > Furd
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wallyball2003 wallyball2003 is offline
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03-24-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by calumnus View Post
I think you posit two different questions:

1. At the end of the regular season, would you prefer to be in the NCAA or the NIT, knowing of course that you chances of advancing in the NIT are greater?

2. Knowing after the fact that we lost the play-in game of the NCAA and knowing that Stanford and Washington are playing in the NIT Final Four in Madison Square Garden, would you prefer to switch places? Would it be more fun?

I think the answer to #1 is you ALWAYS choose the NCAA. Making the Tournament is the goal for a reason. First you get your name on millions of brackets. Second, there is a chance you will be a Cinderella. A minor leaguer always wants a shot at the majors. You don't turn down a promotion at work. You step up to the challenge even if there is a lot more risk involved than staying at a lower level where you are comfortable.

I think the answer to #2 is yeah, assuming we know we lose the NCAA play-in and know we would be in the NIT Final Four, (if we had a time machine or something) I would have enjoyed the NIT more. You didn't know that going in though. There was a decent chance you lose an NIT game too and a decent chance we win at least one game in the NCAA. For me, if we JUST won that first game, I'm already leaning back toward the NCAA.

Think about it, if we didn't know we would be in the play-in game and lose it, can you imagine how PISSED we would be if the NCAA did not select us with our record and RPI and then we went on to win the NIT, proving in our minds that we should have been in the NCAA all along? The injustice of the Pac-12 only having Colorado in the Tourney? We would not enjoy our NIT victory at all, we would be headed toward NCAA HQs with torches and pitchforks. The only way we could enjoy the NIT run is with the certain knowledge that we would have lost that first NCAA game. So in any real world situation where we don't absolutely know how things turn out, we definitely want the NCAA bid. Thus, I'm not sure UW is enjoying their NIT run much, since they think they were better than us and should have been in the NCAAs. Therefore, of the three schools, I say Stanford is enjoying their postseason the most. They did not expect better than what they are getting.
This. Good post.
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LethalFang LethalFang is offline
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03-24-2012, 03:35 PM

Every time you play an NIT game, you're reminded that you didn't make it to the real tournament.
I'd rather have our brief appearance than stanfurd's constant reminder that they were banished to the little sisters' tournament.
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RicoRico RicoRico is offline
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03-24-2012, 04:24 PM

Better for the program to get to the '1st round' (we're not allowed to say 'play-in game', as Roxie reminded us) of the ncaa.
Recruits want to hear 'we've gone to the tourney 3 years out of 4.'
They don't want to hear 'well no, but we did make a nice run in the NIT back in 2012')

Having said that, I do think winning the NIT is a great experience and accomplishment.
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GoCal80 GoCal80 is offline
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03-24-2012, 04:31 PM

I think that the NIT is really awesome - teams battling it out to see which one will earn the right to call themselves the 69th best team in the country!
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sycasey sycasey is offline
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03-24-2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearister View Post
1. Much better to keep playing well into a post season, even an NIT post season, to prove to the team and the fans that the team is on track and has good momentum going into next season. I am still trying to figure out how circling the NCAA runway dumping fuel before landing and then crashing in a First Four game was good for team or fans;
Yes, but playing well in the NIT makes you feel like you have good momentum to do what? To make the NCAAs next year! Because that is the whole point, to get to the real championship tournament.

It's always better to make the NCAA Tournament.
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