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  (#31) Old
calumnus calumnus is online now
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03-28-2012, 07:03 AM

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Originally Posted by KoreAmBear View Post
I'll support anyone we get and when they enroll at Cal they are ours. But I can't help but feel like sand kicked in my face when I watch on the same video an athletic, back to the basket guy with huge upside, picked up by SDSU and we are scratching and clawing for his teammate in the late signing period. I'm happy for Khalil but I'm talking about why we're not signing the athletic talent to begin with. I'm just confused about this. I think we should be landing some big time prospects. There's isn't any reason we shouldn't.
Agreed--I'll be rooting for Khalil, not to focus on him too much, I just think we have too many guys like him.

I would even understand a project big man, but is there no MSF out there?

Sopoaga?
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calumnus calumnus is online now
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03-28-2012, 07:23 AM

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Originally Posted by wvitbear View Post
Will he be a star? Probably not. Could he be a sold player to help us. I'd say good chance....

Two publications noted he was really coming on strong at the end of the season. This is the second half of recruiting and there is not much out there. So, I 'm not sure it is a big risk if Monty likes him. He just lost a shooting guard.
Those are my 2 cents.
I think the first part is true, the problem is we already have multiple guys on the roster that fit that description that play roughly the same position. There is also a chance he never makes a significant contribution, and takes up a scholarship for 4 years. I think that is a huge risk. The more guys like that we get, we increase our chances of getting production from the position only incrementally, while increasing the chances someone will almost never see the court dramatically (since it becomes a numbers issue as well).

Thus, I don't think it makes sense to continue to fill the roster with those kinds of guys. A JC player is less risky, because at least they only use the scholarship for 2 years.

A project big man would be more understandable.

Otherwise, give Thurman a scholie one more year and save it.
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CalBeast CalBeast is offline
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03-28-2012, 07:41 AM

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Originally Posted by calumnus View Post
Agreed--I'll be rooting for Khalil, not to focus on him too much, I just think we have too many guys like him.

I would even understand a project big man, but is there no MSF out there?

Sopoaga?
If I was going to take a chance on someone, I'd want to take a chance on someone with size or athleticism. I'm not really interested in more undersized post men and more than a little tired of watching mid-majors out-athlete our teams.

More than that, I'm just frustrated with the ineptitude of our coaching staff in recruiting. If Monty thinks that this recruiting stuff is all beneath him, I'm sure there are some nice mid-major programs where he could work and not have the burden of being expected to recruit Top 150 level recruits. But I'm not real keen on extending his contract if he's not going to make improving the quality of guys he gets in here a priority. Even before Rossi announced he was leaving, he had a problem with this year's class because he promised one spot early to a project and had another spot that was being filled by a walkon, combined with a bench full of players that he recruited that (in his eyes) aren't good enough to play. That they are now left scrambling around for the guys that are left in some pathetic recruiting version of musical chairs is entirely a problem that he could have foreseen and that is his responsibility to fix. If his assistants aren't capable of bringing better players in, he needs to be told (since apparently he won't do it himself) to get better ones. If he just doesn't care, then maybe it's time to buy out the contract early and he can go back to being a color commentator and we can get someone who is serious about trying to compete for brass rings.
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berkeleyhigh91 berkeleyhigh91 is offline
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03-28-2012, 07:45 AM

Monty is really wasting a key assistant coaching spot with his son, we need a recruiting rock star or an up and comer instead of a Cal Basketball twitter admin...
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Civil Bear Civil Bear is online now
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03-28-2012, 07:48 AM

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Originally Posted by KoreAmBear View Post
I like this. Good job.
Ditto. Problem is some folks enjoy coming off as an ass.
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CalBeast CalBeast is offline
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03-28-2012, 07:48 AM

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Ditto. Problem is some folks enjoy coming off as an ass.
Tell me more about how the liberals are ruining the country, Mr. "above it all"
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CalBeast CalBeast is offline
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03-28-2012, 07:53 AM

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Monty is really wasting a key assistant coaching spot with his son, we need a recruiting rock star or an up and comer instead of a Cal Basketball twitter admin...
He's wasting at least two spots as near as I can tell. So far as I can recall, Sanders-Frison is the only recruit I've ever read where Jay John was a big factor in landing that guy (and recruiting was not exactly his strength at Oregon State). I never heard of Gottlieb doing anything recruiting-wise other than people talking about how great it is that we have Doug Gottlieb's brother on staff, as if it had ever done anything for us. The one guy you hear consistently about is Decuire, so I suspect he's the best of those three. One of John or Gottlieb will be doing something else next year so Monty can be a nepotist, but we really need at least one other guy to make up for that spot that is being spent on his son.
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Civil Bear Civil Bear is online now
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03-28-2012, 08:12 AM

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Originally Posted by CalBeast View Post
Tell me more about how the liberals are ruining the country, Mr. "above it all"
When you find one of those posts let me know.

Still I have been known on occasion to meet snark with more snark. I'm willing to try and cut back. How about you?
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south bender south bender is online now
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Does This Merit a Response? - 03-28-2012, 08:45 AM

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Originally Posted by CalBeast View Post
I'm ... more than a little tired of watching mid-majors out-athlete our teams.

More than that, I'm just frustrated with the ineptitude of our coaching staff in recruiting. If Monty thinks that this recruiting stuff is all beneath him, I'm sure there are some nice mid-major programs where he could work and not have the burden of being expected to recruit Top 150 level recruits. But I'm not real keen on extending his contract if he's not going to make improving the quality of guys he gets in here a priority. Even before Rossi announced he was leaving, he had a problem with this year's class because he promised one spot early to a project and had another spot that was being filled by a walkon, combined with a bench full of players that he recruited that (in his eyes) aren't good enough to play. That they are now left scrambling around for the guys that are left in some pathetic recruiting version of musical chairs is entirely a problem that he could have foreseen and that is his responsibility to fix. If his assistants aren't capable of bringing better players in, he needs to be told (since apparently he won't do it himself) to get better ones. If he just doesn't care, then maybe it's time to buy out the contract early and he can go back to being a color commentator and we can get someone who is serious about trying to compete for brass rings.
Somehow I feel it does not, but:

Where do you get the notion that Monty feels that recruiting is beneath him?

Since the AD does not share your opinions, and apparently likes having a HOF coach in charge of men's basketball, why not concentrate your fire on her?
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Looperbear Looperbear is offline
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03-28-2012, 08:59 AM

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Originally Posted by calumnus View Post
I think the first part is true, the problem is we already have multiple guys on the roster that fit that description that play roughly the same position. There is also a chance he never makes a significant contribution, and takes up a scholarship for 4 years. I think that is a huge risk. The more guys like that we get, we increase our chances of getting production from the position only incrementally, while increasing the chances someone will almost never see the court dramatically (since it becomes a numbers issue as well).

Thus, I don't think it makes sense to continue to fill the roster with those kinds of guys. A JC player is less risky, because at least they only use the scholarship for 2 years.

A project big man would be more understandable.

Otherwise, give Thurman a scholie one more year and save it.
I definitely do not want another "project big man."
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joshbalt joshbalt is offline
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03-28-2012, 09:09 AM

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Originally Posted by south bender View Post
Somehow I feel it does not, but:

Where do you get the notion that Monty feels that recruiting is beneath him?

Since the AD does not share your opinions, and apparently likes having a HOF coach in charge of men's basketball, why not concentrate your fire on her?
The idea that Montgomery doesn't care about recruiting and those promoting that idea are, politely, "misguided". Please end this incessant drivel.
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socaltownie socaltownie is online now
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03-28-2012, 09:24 AM

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Originally Posted by joshbalt View Post
The idea that Montgomery doesn't care about recruiting and those promoting that idea are, politely, "misguided". Please end this incessant drivel.
Josh - then lets ask the question (or more precisely lets have a reporter ask Monty) what the challenge is. Seriously, is it the lack of a practice facility on campus? Is it that we need a bigger recruiting budget? Is it structural? Is it a failure to understand a grand plan? Is it nothing more than "buts in seats" and that we are hearing consistently from players that they want a more "intense" fan base? Is it the bloody pac-12 TV deal and that Monty expects the greater exposure to be instrumental to bringing in certain kinds of kids.

All of these are plausible and many are empowering to the fan base because, at least for some, they serve as a rallying cry. You want 4 and 5 stars? Fine, write a check to the department, schedule a long weekend to get up to the Bay Area and travel better to support the team.

But right now what we see is frankly an abject failure without explination.

Even if you accept that the Pac-12 is "down" here is what we have achieved (and which pales in comparison to the prior regime and arguably is as good as anyone else in the conference.

Dance invite - three of four years. NIT the other
TWO COnference POY
One Conference Championship; 1 second place a game out
Several ALL conference first team members (too lazy to count)
Seeming academic success by our players


Now we have NOT placed someone in the NBA during the MONTY era. A definite ding compared to other programs in the conference. We have also failed to get to the S16 but again, I wonder how much that REALLY matters to kids in comparative recruiting -- doesn't seem to be hurting UCLA that they failed twice in a row to even GET to the dance and CU hadn't won a NCAA tournament game in 20+ years and they have a good class.

As once a wise man said, so find a solution one must first understand the problem. That is what the press needs to find out from the powers that be.
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seattlebear02 seattlebear02 is online now
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03-28-2012, 09:36 AM

Well said, socaltownie. It is astounding that Jeff Faraudo, John Breech, John Crumpacker, The Daily Cal, Ryan Gorcey, and Bear Insider reporters have not asked Monty the hard questions related to recruiting. Maybe they have, maybe they have not...but I have not read anything specifically about Cal's failure to land impact guys. We have absolutely no idea what the hell the problem is.

Last edited by seattlebear02; 03-28-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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socaltownie socaltownie is online now
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03-28-2012, 09:49 AM

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Originally Posted by seattlebear02 View Post
Well said, socaltownie. It is astounding that Jeff Faraudo, John Breech, John Crumpacker, The Daily Cal, Ryan Gorcey, and Bear Insider reporters have not asked Monty the hard questions related to recruiting. Maybe they have, maybe they have not...but I have not read anything specifically about Cal's failure to land impact guys. We have absolutely no idea what the hell the problem is.
THANK YOU!!! One of my pet peeves is the seemingly lack of guts and basic competence of journalists. I don't know why this is a hard question to come up with and then ask. Heck - if they need others on this board have detailed in EXHAUSTIVE detail the failure of the program to land McD AA while, at the same time nearly EVERY OTHER Pac-12 program has at least one. Use THAT as the entry point. Some of the crap they ask about "So, do you think To$h leaving hurt" just is idiotic.
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joshbalt joshbalt is offline
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03-28-2012, 09:56 AM

Off the top of my head here are some real impediments to recruiting:

1) Despite decent recent success, Cal has very little cachet when it comes to basketball. There are only three current NBA players from Cal, only one of which has any real name recognition (Kidd). Top level recruits care about their potential pro career above anything else and this is a real problem.

2) The academics at Cal are an impediment (not a benefit) to elite recruiting. The elite recruits are rarely scholars and while many might be able to make it at Cal with hard work doing so is considered a road block to their pro career. They want to focus on basketball, not spend all day in the study center. What if they lost time like Solomon? Even if they are interested in academics our success numbers aren't great.

3) The elite recruits are often involved in a very dirty AAU scene and/or have handlers, etc... Forms of pay-offs are common in this world.

4) The facilities are average at best, Haas is not a draw and is a shared facility, and there is no practice facility.

5) Fan support is average, it is a bit of a chicken and egg issue but it is there.

While Montgomery would love to land elite recruits (and it is not like they don't try) it is likely that Cal must build with the next tier of recruits (for whom Cal and the academics are a big draw) until the program and facilities rise and create more of a draw for those just seeking pro basketball careers.
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