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  (#31) Old
BeachyBear BeachyBear is offline
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Wow... - 04-11-2012, 12:25 PM

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Originally Posted by SacCityBear View Post
Should he be fired for that and his inability to recruit? Not a chance. You evaluate a coach based on the performance on the court and in the classroom, not winning recruiting national championships. Cal's future might not look great, but until he stops bring Cal to the tournament, you cannot reasonably make a move.
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...So you're happy with the team's performance?

...huh...
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  (#32) Old
SacCityBear SacCityBear is offline
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04-11-2012, 01:14 PM

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Originally Posted by BeachyBear View Post
...So you're happy with the team's performance?

...huh...
As the NCAA tournament is by far the worst way of determining a National Championship in all of sports, I put absolutely zero stock in winning games in it.

I wasn't happy with how Cal played down the stretch, especially since it directly cost the team a conference championship, but if Cal is annually in competition for a conference championship, makes the NCAA tournament most years, and has players go to class and stay out of trouble, I am happy.
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  (#33) Old
calgo430 calgo430 is offline
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transfers - 04-11-2012, 01:31 PM

d j seeley never got a chance to show what he could do. he proved that he was an excellent recruit at cs fullerton last year. i agree with richard lee.
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  (#34) Old
bearchamp bearchamp is offline
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DJ Seeley, Big fish in small pond? - 04-11-2012, 01:41 PM

Posters lament the lack of opportunity for Seeley. Perhaps his success in a smaller environment is proportional to his lack of success in a larger environment?
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KoreAmBear KoreAmBear is offline
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04-11-2012, 01:43 PM

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Originally Posted by bearchamp View Post
Posters lament the lack of opportunity for Seeley. Perhaps his success in a smaller environment is proportional to his lack of success in a larger environment?
Again, the tragedy is that he would have had all the minutes he would have wanted and more, to be a big fish in a big pond in 2010-2011. *sigh*
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ColoradoBear1 ColoradoBear1 is online now
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04-11-2012, 01:57 PM

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Originally Posted by SacCityBear View Post
As the NCAA tournament is by far the worst way of determining a National Championship in all of sports, I put absolutely zero stock in winning games in it.
I wouldn't say the NCAA tournament is the 'worst' way of determining a national champion... but it is a horrible way of determining 2-64. or 2-68. What weekend you make it to is totally dependant on a draw that should definitely be reseeded, but isn't (and you know it would lose 50% of viewer if brackets weren't locked).

The tourney is too big IMO, and severely devalues the regular season. There really should not be conferences getting 8-9 teams in. We all complain about the 1 FCS team we have been playing each year in football as a lame thing to watch, but most preseason basketball is far worse in terms of watchable product. As in games I'd pay money to see because they might mean something to either side.
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OaktownBear OaktownBear is offline
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04-11-2012, 02:17 PM

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Originally Posted by tsubamoto2001 View Post
DJ was a talented kid that needed to be brought along and Monty didn't recruit him, so he didn't even bother. To use an analogy, DJ was sort of the step-child that you kind of care about, but obviously not as much as your own child. Monty likely didn't go out of his way to get to DJ.
I'm sorry, but this is just factually wrong. DJ waivered on his commitment when Monty was hired and Monty re-recruited him and got him to re-affirm. It was clear Monty wanted him.

I don't think the coaches are blameless when a player becomes uninspired, but I have a much bigger issue with the staff on Franklin - whom they identified and recruited and should have known was not a fit - then I do with Seeley. Most of DJ's problem was DJ. He was horrible and he showed no effort. I'm sorry, but you don't reward that crap with more minutes.

Sorry, I have a problem with characterizing this situation as "favoritism". I don't think a coach that says "Gee, I'd like to play the players that bust their ass and do what they are told better than the player that sulks and doesn't get with the program" is exhibiting "favoritism". This is basically the Donyell Marshall question - Do you play the guy who seems to have physical ability but absolutely refuses to do anything to earn the minutes in hopes that his innate ability will come out in games?

In my opinion, playing guys that don't remotely bust their asses is the worst thing for team morale - far worse than playing walkons.

We saw what this guy did on the floor for Cal and he completely checked out. After seeing what the guy did as a soph, I'd say zero minutes and being banned from the team's post-game pizza buffet would have been closer to the right move than giving him MORE minutes to show he didn't give a damn about Cal, his coaches, or most of all his teammates.

Maybe the coaching staff could have done something to prevent him from getting in that head space. But giving him more minutes? Seriously? If he brought it like Murray, I might feel sorry for him, but I'm not going to watch a player dog it like that and then feel bad about his minutes.
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HoopDreams HoopDreams is offline
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PT - 04-11-2012, 03:01 PM

I think another poster pointed out that minutes were going to hard to come by for any soph given that team.

DJ was playing behind POY senior guard Randle, P10 1st team senior guard PC, and senior guard Nikola. Nikola was only a spot player, but he got more minutes than Seeley. Nikola however played solid defense (I remember one game in particular where he locked down an opponent's top scorer. He was clearly told by the coaches to stay in that players pocket, never help, and deny him the ball. He didn't even look at the basket on offense).

Therefore Monty's decision to give more minutes to Nikola is perfectly predictable given Monty's priority on defense, knowing the schemes, and hustle.



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Originally Posted by bearchamp View Post
Posters lament the lack of opportunity for Seeley. Perhaps his success in a smaller environment is proportional to his lack of success in a larger environment?


I dont need easy, I need possible. Jorge Gutierrez
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  (#39) Old
GB54 GB54 is offline
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04-11-2012, 03:38 PM

Seeley was supposed to be some offensive juggernaut who scored 30 points per game in high school. Somewhere between Modesto and Berkeley he forgot how to shoot and how to create a shot. He was terrible even when he started
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Californication Californication is offline
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04-11-2012, 06:20 PM

Blame it on Ben Braun. That's what people always did in the past. Must be the lingering resentment over how he wasn't a players coach, or some b.s.


go bears

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  (#41) Old
ayetee11 ayetee11 is offline
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04-11-2012, 10:38 PM

A couple things I would like to point out. DJ was the leading scorer, but like the OP said, Kwame was the best all around player. I'm very close to Kwame, so I've gotten to watch DJ a lot this year. He's a good kid. He played hard on defense, but that's not saying he's a great defender. He's a flat out scoring machine and Fullerton plays a style that benefits him and other guards. There was an article this year when he returned home to play Pacific saying that he never felt confident because he knew he would get pulled. That's on both parties.

Fullerton may have one of the best backcourts in the west. They also have Darius Nelson who will be eligible in December.
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ReasonableBear ReasonableBear is offline
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04-12-2012, 10:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Richard_Lee View Post
To me, Seeley always had star caliber talent, and his high school Top 50 rating reflected that. His play at Cal State Fullerton further reflected that. He was a slasher who could create his own shot. Basically, he could have been a better Geno Carlisle.

But he never got a chance here. In my opinion, during the Montgomery Era at Cal, he has been Cal's single most talented player, moreso than 2 Pac 10 Players of the Year in Jerome Randle and Jorge Gutierrez. He has also been its single biggest underperformer, and I'm putting that one on the shoulders of our coaching staff.

I really wish D.J. Seeley hadn't left, and I really wish he had received a better opportunity to show his skills at Cal. Seeley was loyal through the coaching turnover from Braun to Montgomery, unlike Garrett Sim, and Seeley's reward was to sit on the bench. Not fair.

We could have used a true scorer against South Florida.
I thank my lucky stars you are not a coach or a talent evaluator for our program.

Most talented player in the MM era? Should I start listing guys...Randle, Christopher, Crabbe, Gutierrez, Kamp, Robertson, Cobbs... I could go on a long time before I get to the name Seeley.

What, may I ask, did he ever show you on the court that leads you to the conclusion that he is a) most talented player in MM era b)could create his own shot? Those skills never surfaced. Were you watching YouTube clips of him or perhaps you were privy to practices that the rest of us don't see? Ludicrous assertion that he's the most talented player in the last 4 years.

Finally, the fact that you use the word "loyal" to describe him is about as preposterous as your earlier assertion. The guy transfered out of the program, which should be your first clue that he's not loyal. Second, he did everything in his power to sulk and scuttle any progress the team was making...how is that being "loyal" in your book? Someone who's loyal buys in to the coaching staff and works hard and doesn't pout...

Would he have helped us more than Brandon this year? Possible/Probably...but don't for a second think that he wasn't a cancer that needed to go elsewhere...
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  (#43) Old
ReasonableBear ReasonableBear is offline
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Not getting a chance?! Really?! - 04-12-2012, 10:45 AM

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Originally Posted by calgo430 View Post
d j seeley never got a chance to show what he could do. he proved that he was an excellent recruit at cs fullerton last year. i agree with richard lee.
Explain yourself.
What do you consider "never getting a chance." Didn't he practice every day with the team? Didn't he play in games? Didn't he control his own body language and effort levels?

If you think that you automatically deserve significant minutes without ever working hard, playing hard, being a team player, and not pouting and sulking then I guess you are right, he never got a chance.

I'm glad he did well at Fullerton. It will give his parents and uncle even more reason to be upset when his basketball career comes to an end in the United States. Enjoy Turkey.
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ReasonableBear ReasonableBear is offline
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04-12-2012, 10:55 AM

There is an old adage in the coaching profession...You love to get transfers...why? Because they have nowhere else to go!

Seeley probably did two things in his move to Fullerton...He probably grew up and got more mature. And he probably came to the realization that if he didn't listen to the coaches and work harder that he would never play there either. I suppose those two things go hand in hand with each other.

The reality is that sure, DJ may have had a come to God type moment at Cal and changed his demeanor, his persona, everything, and been a contributor. But the likelihood of those things happening without a change of scenery is very low.

So Richard, while you try to use his SENIOR statistics for a team that plays in a far inferior conference and level of competition...you leave out a lot of factors that play into WHY he was able to succeed at this lower level of basketball.

When a player has no other options, he's much more likely to buy in, and work hard, and be a team player...it's a pretty simple rationale.

I don't think there's anyone on this board that would disagree with the fact that if he had a good attitude and work rate he would have been a good contributor for Cal this year, and probably the year before also. But those two things were absent while he was at Cal...so...
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  (#45) Old
wifeisafurd wifeisafurd is offline
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Fwiw - 04-12-2012, 10:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Californication View Post
Blame it on Ben Braun. That's what people always did in the past. Must be the lingering resentment over how he wasn't a players coach, or some b.s.
Ben was liked personally, but when his program had mediocre to bad seasons, about half the posters wanted him gone, and the other half supported him. Ben was a polarizing figure. He also had problems graduating players, which fans don't care about, but Sandy does. Monty has had an excellent record, and has done well so far moving the players towards graduation. The concern with Monty for some is based on the perceived lack of recruiting success, and what that will do to the program in the long run. Very different issues.
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