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  (#31) Old
calumnus calumnus is offline
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12-12-2012, 02:10 PM

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Originally Posted by concordtom View Post
chuckle!
Okay, here it is. I view the Rise as the enemy b/c all he wants is Arizona to do well. He doesn't care about Cal that I can tell. He doesn't want AG to come here. He wants Rooks to come here b/c he believes that Jabari Parker is a possibility for Arizona, along with AG. Go check out his twitter feed. He's got his eye on other higher level recruits too. He hopes AZ legacy Rooks goes to Cal so that they get grab higher targets.

Further, the Rise (note the small "t", not capitalized) is merely using his Marcus Lee criticism of Kentucky to show AG that UK is not a good place to go. So, ML is merely a tool. ML is already signed to UK, there is no coming back to Cal and Rise knows that. So, Rise does not support ML coming to Cal, ML is merely his tool. There's nothing to support in Rise from my perspective, though his comments add knowledge here, as I don't read all the various news flashes he does.

As for WB, when he talks, I get a sense of emotion about Cal. Why would WB go out of his way to say some of the stuff he does here? Because there is emotion about it. Someone else long ago pointed out that if you don't care, you don't comment. It's like, another universe that doesn't matter to you. So, I see WB as an actual Cal supporter, of sorts, who maybe would have wanted ML to come here. No doubt WB would have been able to watch ML play more often LIVE and in person. In this sense, I've got more in common with WB than tR. He and I *could* have been partying at Haas together. tR and I never would, though we might enjoy talking up hoops and stuff together at the bar - but it would end badly. I don't like Arizona, despite the fact that my 90 year old great aunt still lives in Tucson!

I don't think I've ever defended WB in a "WB<--->tR" faceoff. I only laughed with WB as he told tR that tR's prognostication that the Harrison twins wouldn't sign with UK was completely wrong with his simple "they signed, dumbass" retort. That had nothing to do with Cal, and it was all tR's formula for trying to discredit UK as a challenger to AZ for AG, JP, and others.
I like the "drinks in a sports bar" analogy. I do find this board amusing. More personality driven than the football board. I little like "Cheers." All of the characters add color.
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concordtom concordtom is offline
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12-12-2012, 03:34 PM

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Originally Posted by OldBlue1999 View Post
ct, I just wish you would have waited to see if Willie would answer my questions before jumping in and answering for him. Maybe he will still answer; maybe he never would have answered regardless. Either way I don't see what it had to do with you, and I guess at least one other person sees it that way too. No offense, but I'd rather hear Willie's take on why Willie says what he says than yours.
Okay, sorry. Please ask again, and direct your question to WB directly. I'm confident he will answer your question, one way or another. Thanks in advance, WB.
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OldBlue1999 OldBlue1999 is offline
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12-12-2012, 04:52 PM

If Willie wants to answer me he will. I doubt he does.
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Willie Beamon Willie Beamon is offline
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12-13-2012, 12:50 AM

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Originally Posted by OldBlue1999 View Post
If Willie wants to answer me he will. I doubt he does.
Anytime a head coach is dismissive of questions that the parent of a recruit has , doesn't deserve to sign the kid. The questions that were asked had nothing to do with any promises of minutes or anything like that. They were legitimate questions that all parents should ask. It was almost like the parent(s) were just a necessary evil that he had to deal with to get the kid. Not a good way to make a kid want to be a part of your program. Everyone in the room was put off by his attitude. I was warned about MM before all of this started and me not liking to judge a person before I meet him, gave him a chance and he proved everybody right that warned me about him prior.
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OldBlue1999 OldBlue1999 is offline
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12-13-2012, 08:08 AM

Thanks for the reply, Willie. Still not a lot base an opinion on though. That's fine, I understand there are nuances to these things and you're reluctant to go into specifics. But to me dismissive does not necessarily equal asshole, which is what you said before. That would depend a lot on what the subject of the question was, among other things. You say "They were legitimate questions all parents should ask" but we have no idea what that really means. What you think every parent should ask I, or MM, might not. You're asking us to blindly take your word and adopt that conclusion because you tell us to. I won't do that.

For the record I respect that ML is betting on himself and taking his shot to see if he has what it takes to compete at the absolute highest level. I can't say I wouldn't do the same in his shoes, and I wish him no ill. Still, it's curious that you are so negative about MM and Cal yet ML had them a (somewhat?) close second and you seem to have no reason to care other than his now severed relationship with them.

ps "doesn't deserve to sign the kid" is a very interesting choice of words, IMO

Last edited by OldBlue1999; 12-13-2012 at 08:10 AM.
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Willie Beamon Willie Beamon is offline
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12-13-2012, 04:17 PM

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Originally Posted by OldBlue1999 View Post
Thanks for the reply, Willie. Still not a lot base an opinion on though. That's fine, I understand there are nuances to these things and you're reluctant to go into specifics. But to me dismissive does not necessarily equal asshole, which is what you said before. That would depend a lot on what the subject of the question was, among other things. You say "They were legitimate questions all parents should ask" but we have no idea what that really means. What you think every parent should ask I, or MM, might not. You're asking us to blindly take your word and adopt that conclusion because you tell us to. I won't do that.

For the record I respect that ML is betting on himself and taking his shot to see if he has what it takes to compete at the absolute highest level. I can't say I wouldn't do the same in his shoes, and I wish him no ill. Still, it's curious that you are so negative about MM and Cal yet ML had them a (somewhat?) close second and you seem to have no reason to care other than his now severed relationship with them.

ps "doesn't deserve to sign the kid" is a very interesting choice of words, IMO
Graduation rates seems to be legit to me

Last edited by Willie Beamon; 12-13-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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OldBlue1999 OldBlue1999 is offline
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12-14-2012, 08:14 AM

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Originally Posted by Willie Beamon View Post
Graduation rates seems to be legit to me
Yes, that's a legitimate subject. But any kid who chooses Kentucky over Cal loses almost all credibility that academics really mean much to him at all.

I'm also curious why a kid who you've pronounced as being an NBA lock after at most 2 years is worried about graduation rates. It is virtually impossible to graduate from Cal in 2 years. I'm not sure, but I assume the same is true even about Kentucky. So if you're planning on leaving school after 1 or 2 years for a lucrative and long NBA career those graduation rate studies don't really apply to you, do they?

If it's true that MM failed to explain the flaws in those graduation rate studies then that's a shame because, as I showed in an earlier thread, it's easy to do. But if by explaining that they're not really very meaningful, particularly to early entry guys, he was perceived as ”dismissive” of them then that's another story altogether...

Last edited by OldBlue1999; 12-14-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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Willie Beamon Willie Beamon is offline
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12-14-2012, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by OldBlue1999 View Post
Yes, that's a legitimate subject. But any kid who chooses Kentucky over Cal loses almost all credibility that academics really mean much to him at all.

I'm also curious why a kid who you've pronounced as being an NBA lock after at most 2 years is worried about graduation rates. It is virtually impossible to graduate from Cal in 2 years. I'm not sure, but I assume the same is true even about Kentucky. So if you're planning on leaving school after 1 or 2 years for a lucrative and long NBA career those graduation rate studies don't really apply to you, do they?

If it's true that MM failed to explain the flaws in those graduation rate studies then that's a shame because, as I showed in an earlier thread, it's easy to do. But if by explaining that they're not really very meaningful, particularly to early entry guys, he was perceived as ”dismissive” of them then that's another story altogether...
Look man, you asked and I gave you a tidbit of information and you still find a way to make an excuse for Montgomery. Bottom line is when you're trying to get a kid to come to your school you answer any and every question with a smile on your face. His mother asked the question because she's not a basketball head, she's concerned about her son's education and life beyond basketball. Montgomery didn't say " it doesn't matter since he won't be here longer than 2 years anyway", even if he thought it was an unnecessary question he wasn't supposed to show that. Just because he has the ability to be an early entrant doesn't mean that it's guaranteed to happen and Montgomery should've just answered the damn question. Him not answering led to him not getting a kid that he needed. You sound like a Montgomery apologist. It's like it's hard to believe that Montgomery isn't a saint because you're a Cal fan and you don't want anything negative said about the God of coaches in your eyes.

Last edited by Willie Beamon; 12-14-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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sluggo_Cal sluggo_Cal is online now
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12-14-2012, 12:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Willie Beamon View Post
Just because he has the ability to be an early entrant doesn't mean that it's guaranteed to happen and Montgomery should've just answered the damn question. Him not answering led to him not getting a kid that he needed.
While I agree with your point that a coach should be on his best behavior when recruiting, it seems ludicrous that not properly answering a couple
questions led Lee to choosing such a dramatically different college experience. You argued previously that UK is dramatically better for his basketball development. That was not the key factor?

If true, he sure showed Monty.

Sluggo
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Shocky1 Shocky1 is offline
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12-14-2012, 12:29 PM

wb, i appreciate your insights re: monty's recruiting interactions with your family

people are flawed including monty...time will only tell how honest coach cal was in ml's recruitment

re: the graduation question, the cal monster class thread has all the hs gpas for the 2013 cal bb team...given the impressive academic credentials of these student athletes, it would be very surprising if 100% (unless they declare early for the nba) of them do not graduate from cal with a diploma

graduation rates for cal, pre monty, were not favorable but other than being interesting are not relevant to monty's high academic standards and documented success with his bb players

hope you keep posting
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calumnus calumnus is offline
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12-14-2012, 12:48 PM

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Originally Posted by OldBlue1999 View Post
Yes, that's a legitimate subject. But any kid who chooses Kentucky over Cal loses almost all credibility that academics really mean much to him at all.

I'm also curious why a kid who you've pronounced as being an NBA lock after at most 2 years is worried about graduation rates. It is virtually impossible to graduate from Cal in 2 years. I'm not sure, but I assume the same is true even about Kentucky. So if you're planning on leaving school after 1 or 2 years for a lucrative and long NBA career those graduation rate studies don't really apply to you, do they?

If it's true that MM failed to explain the flaws in those graduation rate studies then that's a shame because, as I showed in an earlier thread, it's easy to do. But if by explaining that they're not really very meaningful, particularly to early entry guys, he was perceived as ”dismissive” of them then that's another story altogether...
1. Clearly, Monty should seize any opening to discuss academics, especially when he is dealing with a good student like Lee and the competition is Kentucky. He should be discussing Cal's academic support program (in the brand new SAHPC) and he should say any student-athlete of Marcus' ability can graduate and get a degree from the top public university in the world if that is his goal--he will have help, but no one is going to do the work for him. I am surprised he did not have his academics spiel down--he recruited to Stanford for decades after all.

2. The Lee family is local and should know that a degree from Cal is far more valuable that a degree from Kentucky--10 times more so if Lee returns to Northern California after his playing days. Even after the NBA as the business connections he will have here as a Cal alum will be far superior. Sad that they did not see that and that Monty was not able to get them to see that.
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HoopDreams HoopDreams is online now
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suggestion... - 12-14-2012, 12:53 PM

....let it rest.


‘I don’t need easy, I need possible.’ Jorge Gutierrez
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calumnus calumnus is offline
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12-14-2012, 01:25 PM

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Originally Posted by HoopDreams View Post
....let it rest.
Agree that we should move past the specific recruiting of Marcus Lee and wish him well. The issue of why Monty may or may not be connecting with recruits is important on a "going forward" basis. If he is not effectively selling Cal's academics over programs like Kentucky (should not be a difficult job), then that is a problem. Final Fours are one thing, but academics...?

It would be good if Theo were more than the GA and were allowed to recruit. As an African American Cal graduate from the same general area as Lee, he could have been with Monty and directly addressed Mrs. Lee's question both for himself and many of the players who did not get their degrees (yet) but with whom he keeps in regular contact (most are playing professionally overseas).
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petalumabear petalumabear is offline
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12-14-2012, 04:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Willie Beamon View Post
Graduation rates seems to be legit to me
Interesting... for a supposed 2 and done kid, what difference do grad rates make?
serious question willie..
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calumnus calumnus is offline
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12-14-2012, 07:14 PM

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Originally Posted by petalumabear View Post
Interesting... for a supposed 2 and done kid, what difference do grad rates make?
serious question willie..
Willie said it was Lee's mom that asked, which sounds plausible that she is not thinking 1 or 2 and done (like Marcus and Willie), and that it was the way Monty dealt with the question that was the turnoff, which I have to admit, is believable.

We know how Monty can be, he is old school and curmudgeonly--much of our fan base relates and loves him for that (though we hated him at Stanford). It is just not the prototypical "sales" or "recruiting" personality--but I think that if he gets to know players and their parents earlier on in the process they will grow to understand him better and more importantly, really trust him, because he is nothing if not a straight shooter.
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