My takeaway: If the network does not give you a sufficient budget for first cabin quality CGI, then pass on it. The deepfakes of Al Davis and Pete Rozelle were so cheesy and bizarre as to be distracting. It looked like cheap video game graphics.


Nothing Can Prepare You for the 30 for 30 Deepfakes of Al Davis and Pete Rozelle - The Ringer


https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/2/5/22267485/al-davis-pete-rozelle-deepfakes-30-for-30

Yeah, I saw the first few minutes of it this afternoon. I was like, "oh no" when they explained it.

It reminds me of an American Experience documentary on Orson Welles' War of the Worlds stunt a few years back.

Rather than have a straightforward documentary, they filmed actors in black and white pretending to react to the radio broadcast.

That deep fakes **** was weird. Especially since the rozelle one looks more like kevin from the office than rozelle.

bearister said:

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My takeaway: If the network does not give you a sufficient budget for first cabin quality CGI, then pass on it. The deepfakes of Al Davis and Pete Rozelle were so cheesy and bizarre as to be distracting. It looked like cheap video game graphics.


Nothing Can Prepare You for the 30 for 30 Deepfakes of Al Davis and Pete Rozelle - The Ringer


https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/2/5/22267485/al-davis-pete-rozelle-deepfakes-30-for-30

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It was terrible. And I had the same thought as the article - when you start making up quotes and (essentially) attribute them to the person, which they did by having Rozelle and Davis's reanimated corpses narrate the movie, it stops being a documentary. Interesting story, I didn't know the details of the legal battle because I was a young lad at the time, but it was hard to take it seriously.

I did find a new hero, though. The guy who traveled from SF to LA for the Super Bowl parade to sell LA Raider fans buttons from their Super Bowl win 3 years prior because "they are too stupid to know the difference." LOL

My Dad knew Al Davis well from working out at William's Health Club on 14th Street in Oakland (top floor of the old VA building, across the street from the old Merchant's Parking Garage). What my Dad said about Al: "You couldn't have a better friend....or a worse enemy."

My Dad took his dad to the long closed Mirabeau restaurant (Kaiser Center roof garden) for my grandfather's birthday circa 1970. My Dad bumped into Al in the restroom and asked him if he would stop by the table and wish my grandfather a Happy Birthday. Al did just that and treated my grandfather like an old friend (Don Rickles tells a joke involving the same scenario with Frank Sinatra....however when Sinatra comes by the table to wish Happy Birthday, Rickles said, "Frank, can't you see we're talking here.").

Here's the deepfake video for those who haven't watched:

I watched it out of curiosity since more and more media will be incorporating deepfake technology and holograms of dead people like 2pac at coachella.

Short version, it was weird. Longer version, just like with The Last Dance it should not legally be called a documentary. Davis and Rozelle in the 30-for-30 are crafted from public statements which means that even if they're reasonable facsimiles of Davis the character and Rozelle the commissioner neither of them is representative of the actual people.

I don't really get how it's ethically considered OK either. Even if you get a Michael Jackson hologram to perfectly recreate one of his old performances or Al Davis that looks and sounds like he did when he was commissioner of the AFL why is that OK to do? If those guys were alive would they have moved on creatively or as people? Would they give their consent to deepfake/hologram mimicry? Should we allow public figures and entertainers to live on through past work and their time on Earth or should we march their (virtual) corpses up on stage and command them like puppets?

I'm just saying that the result is a dishonest story because the principal parties had no input, it's unnerving and weird, and honestly it seems shady as hell. We really shouldn't expect the NFL (in this case) or the NBA (with The Last Dance) to objectively tell stories that don't paint them in a good light anyway. Either give up creative control to a third party or don't call it a documentary, call it an historical recreation or some ****

Bearly Clad said:

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I watched it out of curiosity since more and more media will be incorporating deepfake technology and holograms of dead people like 2pac at coachella.

Short version, it was weird. Longer version, just like with The Last Dance it should not legally be called a documentary. Davis and Rozelle in the 30-for-30 are crafted from public statements which means that even if they're reasonable facsimiles of Davis the character and Rozelle the commissioner neither of them is representative of the actual people.

I don't really get how it's ethically considered OK either. Even if you get a Michael Jackson hologram to perfectly recreate one of his old performances or Al Davis that looks and sounds like he did when he was commissioner of the AFL why is that OK to do? If those guys were alive would they have moved on creatively or as people? Would they give their consent to deepfake/hologram mimicry? Should we allow public figures and entertainers to live on through past work and their time on Earth or should we march their (virtual) corpses up on stage and command them like puppets?

I'm just saying that the result is a dishonest story because the principal parties had no input, it's unnerving and weird, and honestly it seems shady as hell. We really shouldn't expect the NFL (in this case) or the NBA (with The Last Dance) to objectively tell stories that don't paint them in a good light anyway. Either give up creative control to a third party or don't call it a documentary, call it an historical recreation or some ****

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The video I posted above is from the Raiders YouTube channel, so I'm presuming it's authorized.

Yea but authorized by the person vs. authorized by the estate isn't the same. Just look at Mark Davis's haircut, should anyone really trust his judgement?

Al Davis was a football genius. Period.

Al Davis said the only two words that matter in football are "speed kills."
if you have speed, you always have a chance .
If you don't have speed, try another profession. The world always needs bartenders...

...and...

In addition, like in many areas in life, time passed him by. He did not leave gracefully when he aged out. Few do.

In the 1983 draft, Irsay and the Colts traded the #1 pick (John Elway) to Al Davis and the L. A. Raiders, who had just won the Super Bowl. It would have set up the next decade of all California Super Bowls, Raiders vs Niners, Elway versus Montana, LA versus San Francisco. It would have been epic and solidified the Raiders as LA's team, made Davis rich and made Elway a superstar. For that last reason I'm glad Pete Rosell overturned the deal as "not in the best interests of football" (the only time the commissioner ever has before or since).

Well, in football at least. Don't forget the NBA was the caretakers of the New Orleans Hornets when their GM agreed to trade Chris Paul to the Lakers. That would have extended Kobe's career and maybe/probably gotten Chris Paul a ring (and another for Jerry Buss before he died). Instead the trade got vetoed, the Lakers got desperate and tried to build around Howard and Nash, Nash got hurt, and Kobe ruptured his Achilles trying to carry that team to the playoffs.

I guess it's arguable whether Stern was acting in his role as commissioner or temporary governor of the Hornets, but that would mean that the other 28 owners nixed a trade between two franchises that none of them owned. No one's crying for the LA teams but those are pretty classic examples of old school commissioners basically being sports tyrants