Best Rivalries per The Athletic and its Readers

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ncbears
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11:10a, 7/12/25
Ok - it's NYTimes - and it seems like there is a recency effect.
But, Cal-Stanfurd are way down the list.
Seems like marketing for both schools needs to step it up.
I don't know if this is behind a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6486724/2025/07/11/college-football-best-rivalries-fan-vote/?source=athletic_freeweeklyemail&campaign=602288&userId=12198658
Rivalry Rankings
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BearSD
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1:18p, 7/12/25
Nobody thinks marketing of either team is great, but c'mon.

The 2024 Big Game matched Stanford (3-7) and Cal (5-5). If Cal and Stanford get to the point of being consistently winning teams and the games have real stakes other than who takes the Axe home, and if the rivalry is still then overlooked, then we can start pointing the finger at marketing.
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calumnus
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In reply to BearSD • 2:39p, 7/12/25
BearSD said:
Nobody thinks marketing of either team is great, but c'mon.

The 2024 Big Game matched Stanford (3-7) and Cal (5-5). If Cal and Stanford get to the point of being consistently winning teams and the games have real stakes other than who takes the Axe home, and if the rivalry is still then overlooked, then we can start pointing the finger at marketing.

Exactly. When was the last time Cal had a winning conference record in football? Even in basketball it has been since three coaches ago. And now Stanford is worse (in football).

Moreover, how strong is the rivalry when both our basketball coaches are Stanford alums, former players? And Stanford's last basketball and football coach were former Cal players?

With all the transfer players in football and basketball, how strong can they feel about the rivalry?

Big Game is not the final game and Big Game traditions have lapsed. CMS used to be 50-50 red and blue for Big Game. Now they are just a visitor.

Finally, Stanford is the one that got us into the ACC, a P4 conference, when our leadership was contemplating the MWC or shutting down the program. Hard for me to hate them right now when we are our own worst enemy.

Maybe with Rivera and Luck as managers we can get some of it back.
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okaydo
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In reply to ncbears • 2:52p, 7/12/25
ncbears said:
Ok - it's NYTimes - and it seems like there is a recency effect.
But, Cal-Stanfurd are way down the list.
Seems like marketing for both schools needs to step it up.
I don't know if this is behind a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6486724/2025/07/11/college-football-best-rivalries-fan-vote/?source=athletic_freeweeklyemail&campaign=602288&userId=12198658
Rivalry Rankings


Here's what happened. On Monday, The Athletic's Scott Dochterman posted his ranking of the Top 100 college football rivalries.

(I was going to link to it, but ultimately I just didn't care.

Cal came in at No. 29.

(USC-UCLA was No. 14. Washington-Oregon was No. 21.










The Athletic staff was asked which college football rivalry was overrated:

Dockterman said:





The link you link to is of the fan votes for top college football rivalries. Cal-Stanford came in at No. 24.

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HearstMining
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10:05a, 7/13/25
There's certainly east coast (well, let's call it "east of the Rockies") bias as well as recency bias in this list.

[ul]
[li]Penn St and Ohio St had only faced each other nine times prior to 1993 when Penn St joined the B1G and have only played 39 games total. And on top of that, the B1G doesn't consider them a "protected rivalry" going forward, so they'll only play each other every second year. How can that be a rivalry?[/li]
[li]Michigan and Notre Dame was such a great rivalry that, except for 1942, THEY DIDN'T PLAY EACH OTHER from 1910 - 1977. In addition, they haven't played each other since 2019 and aren't scheduled until 2033. How can that be a rivalry?[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]Washington vs Oregon - this one is a combination or recency and TV hype: I lived near Seattle from 1983-1992 and this wasn't considered a rivalry game. The Apple Cup was a much bigger deal and in fact, UW's games against USC got a lot more attention. One reason it's not a big rivalry is the long stretches where one team dominated. From 1974-1993, UO only won three times and from 2004-2021, UW only won twice. Streaks like that don't support a real rivalry.[/li]
[/ul]

I think a lot of people miss the point of a rivalry. A rivalry irrationally means everything to the two schools/teams regardless of their records. Fans will always show up (well, maybe not Stanford fans) when the two teams are good, but when the two teams both have records below .500 and the stadium still se!ls out, that's a rivalry!
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Anarchistbear
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10:49a, 7/13/25
Army vs Navy
Michigan vs OSU
Oklahoma vs Texas

Alabama vs Tenn, LSU, Ole Miss, etc

Oklahoma vs Nebraska has to be a joke
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HearstMining
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 11:50a, 7/13/25
Anarchistbear said:
Army vs Navy
Michigan vs OSU
Oklahoma vs Texas

Alabama vs Tenn, LSU, Ole Miss, etc

Oklahoma vs Nebraska has to be a joke

The Oklahoma v Nebraska mention is a remnant of when both were in the Big 8 and top teams in the 1960s-1970s. They played a Thanksgiving game that was legendary. Jack Mildren QB'd Oklahoma's Wishbone.
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Anarchistbear
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1:22p, 7/13/25
Well then, Army vs the four horsemen of Notre Dame
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wifeisafurd
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4:59p, 7/13/25
sorry my formatting now shows-up
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ducktilldeath
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10:00p, 7/13/25
Unless it's Army/Navy, rivalries have to mean something. There's a reason Oregon fans yawn about Oregon State and foam at the mouth about Washington.
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calumnus
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In reply to ducktilldeath • 11:06p, 7/13/25
ducktilldeath said:
Unless it's Army/Navy, rivalries have to mean something. There's a reason Oregon fans yawn about Oregon State and foam at the mouth about Washington.


"Meaning something" comes and goes, but a good rivalry does require that the two teams be more than often evenly matched and have some other aspects of rivalry. The Big Game was great when both Cal and Stanford were mediocre, but also has elements of academic prestige and private vs public. The rivalry lessened when Cal was dominant and then when Stanford was dominant.

I'm sure the Civil War was more intense before Oregon became dominant (at least from the perspective of a Duck, Beavers may feel differently) but otherwise the schools have more in common than not. They are two public universities in the state of Oregon, one 1 hr and 20 minutes south of Portland the other another 20 minutes further south. University of Oregon is #109 and Oregon State is #144 according to USNews&WR. Whereas Oregon - Washington has the larger state vs state rivalry and Portland vs Seattle, so it invites in non-alums to be fans and rivals of the other team. With no NFL team in the state, Oregon can serve as the state's "pro" team and Washington as a natural rival, but why would someone in Portland who picked up Oregon as their team hate Oregon State?
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ducktilldeath
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In reply to calumnus • 12:51a, 7/14/25
calumnus said:
ducktilldeath said:
Unless it's Army/Navy, rivalries have to mean something. There's a reason Oregon fans yawn about Oregon State and foam at the mouth about Washington.


"Meaning something" comes and goes, but a good rivalry does require that the two teams be more than often evenly matched and have some other aspects of rivalry. The Big Game was great when both Cal and Stanford were mediocre, but also has elements of academic prestige and private vs public. The rivalry lessened when Cal was dominant and then when Stanford was dominant.

I'm sure the Civil War was more intense before Oregon became dominant (at least from the perspective of a Duck, Beavers may feel differently) but otherwise the schools have more in common than not. They are two public universities in the state of Oregon, one 1 hr and 20 minutes south of Portland the other another 20 minutes further south. University of Oregon is #109 and Oregon State is #144 according to USNews&WR. Whereas Oregon - Washington has the larger state vs state rivalry and Portland vs Seattle, so it invites in non-alums to be fans and rivals of the other team. With no NFL team in the state, Oregon can serve as the state's "pro" team and Washington as a natural rival, but why would someone in Portland who picked up Oregon as their team hate Oregon State?

I don't really understand how this refutes what I'm saying. People complaining about being 24th on some made up list when basically all of the rivalries ahead of them are much more successful programs seems pretty pathetic.

Nobody hates Mike Riley or Clay Helton. Everybody hates Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll.

USC/ND and Miami/FSU Auburn/Alabama, Nebraksa/OU, Michigan/Ohio State have decided national championships. When was the last time the Big Game was meaningful?

The Play has driven the popularity of the rivalry for 40+ years, yet ultimately it was irrelevant. 7-4 beat 5-6. Now think of Auburn returning the missed FG for a 100+ yard TD to beat Alabama. That was for the right to play in the SEC championship game. Auburn won the SEC and played in the Natty. Has the Big Game EVER meant that much? Certainly not in my lifetime. Texas and Arkansas is(was) a huge rivalry because they were competing for conference championships every year for a decade plus.
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TomBear
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In reply to calumnus • 8:02a, 7/14/25

Having gone to Oregon and having played rugby against both Washington and OSU, I can tell you that the Civil War is a really good rivalry. There is a huge dislike between the two schools. But Oregon vs. Washington is actual hate, mostly from Oregon because, to be truthful, Oregon has an inferiority complex to UW. Just walk through the campuses. UW is classic, gothic and reeks of academia. Oregon is (with the exception of only a couple of old buildings) like an over glorified JC. And when it comes to Seattle vs. Portland, there's no comparison. Portland is like San Jose to San Francisco, if that. So that rivalry probably is a step above Civil War. But Civil War means a lot to the people of Oregon, believe me.

I liken the situation to Big Game. It's a great rivalry, one of the best! But I think Bear fans dislike stanford within their admiration for the academics and traditions. When Big Game comes around, that's all you think about. But Cal vs. $C is pure hatred. Kind of like the Giants vs. dodgers.
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wifeisafurd
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1:00p, 7/14/25
Cal vs Stanford is a great rivalry. There is the all the traditions, the long history. dramatic (and perhaps the most dramatic) plays and I could go on. There are not many people outside the Bay Area that appreciate this and that is why the rivalry is rated is so low. There are rivalries that are in the national conversation most years, often in the top 10. While Cal and Stanford have been on occasion good, I can't recall a Big Game when both teams were even in the top 25.
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Anarchistbear
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1:24p, 7/14/25
Cal vs Stanford is great because it draws on private vs public venom, and because a coach can keep or lose his job depending on the result. That passes the test

This whole thing is a little dumb because rivalries are local; very few rivalries capture the national imagination.

Nationally there are only a few games I'd check out every year :

Oklahoma vs Texas
ND vs SC
OSU vs Michigan
Bama vs LSU
Army vs Navy ( more theater than game)
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calumnus
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In reply to Anarchistbear • 1:54p, 7/14/25
Anarchistbear said:
Cal vs Stanford is great because it draws on private vs public venom, and because a coach can keep or lose his job depending on the result. That passes the test

This whole thing is a little dumb because rivalries are local; very few rivalries capture the national imagination.

Nationally there are only a few games I'd check out every year :

Oklahoma vs Texas
ND vs SC
OSU vs Michigan
Bama vs LSU
Army vs Navy ( more theater than game)

I think this is an important distinction. There are great rivalries and there are rivalries that have national consequences. That is a separate category. Only the rivals have to care about a rivalry. It does not matter to the rivals if the game has national consequences. While outside observers don't need to care about the rivalry, they should be able to recognize one and I think this list does a poor job of that, but that just brings us back to the first point: I don't care if outsiders recognize Cal-Stanford as a great rivalry.
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sycasey
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In reply to wifeisafurd • 4:10p, 7/14/25
wifeisafurd said:
I can't recall a Big Game when both teams were even in the top 25.

Pretty sure 2009 was the last time (and a classic game!).
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bearister
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In reply to calumnus • 4:47p, 7/14/25
"When was the last time Cal had a winning conference record …..Even in basketball it has been since three coaches ago."

HEY! We have had two school records in hoop! Two different coaches set a program record of 16 consecutive losses……and with NIL and The Portal we get to keep our minds sharp by memorizing an all new roster each season (like the fans of the team formerly known as the Oakland A's had to do).

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HearstMining
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5:42p, 7/14/25
How about the Oregon- ASU rivalry over which school admits more California students who can't get into a UC?
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calumnus
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In reply to bearister • 6:08p, 7/14/25
bearister said:
"When was the last time Cal had a winning conference record …..Even in basketball it has been since three coaches ago."

HEY! We have had two school records in hoop! Two different coaches set a program record of 16 consecutive losses……and with NIL and The Portal we get to keep our minds sharp by memorizing an all new roster each season (like the fans of the team formerly known as the Oakland A's had to do).



Jones ended his streak with a win over #25 UW and finished out the conference with 3 wins before he was fired finishing with 15 conference losses. Fox's streak was ongoing when he was fired finishing with 18 conference losses.

Jones' 8-23 2nd and final season was really bad, the 4th worst season in Cal history. The 9th worst conference record in Cal history. Cal coaches with worse seasons in conference includes Nibs Price, Pete Newell, Mark Fox, Rene Herrerias and Dick Kutchen.

However, Mark Fox's 3-29 4th season was the WORST in Cal history, and the WORST in the entire country, #363 out of 363! Plus it was the lowest scoring team in the entire country #363 out of 363! Fox's 14 home losses also lead the country at #1! And nearly lead the country in lowest FG%, fewest made 3s, lowest 3pt%, fewest assists….

Mark Fox won his first game of the new year on Jan. 6th then never won another game. 0 for the rest of January, 0 for all of February and 0 for the month of March. And that year he finished with a 16 game losing streak? He started with a 12 game losing streak. And that was not while he was building the team bringing in young talent, that was the result of him running off the talent he inherited from Jones resulting in the worst Cal season of all time and the worst in the entire country. We have had other bad seasons at Cal but nothing comes close to what Mark Fox achieved.
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HearstMining
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In reply to calumnus • 6:32p, 7/14/25
calumnus said:
bearister said:
"When was the last time Cal had a winning conference record …..Even in basketball it has been since three coaches ago."

HEY! We have had two school records in hoop! Two different coaches set a program record of 16 consecutive losses……and with NIL and The Portal we get to keep our minds sharp by memorizing an all new roster each season (like the fans of the team formerly known as the Oakland A's had to do).



Jones ended his streak with a win over #25 UW and finished out the conference with 3 wins before he was fired finishing with 15 conference losses. Fox's streak was ongoing when he was fired finishing with 18 conference losses.

Jones' 8-23 2nd and final season was really bad, the 4th worst season in Cal history. The 9th worst conference record in Cal history. Cal coaches with worse seasons in conference includes Nibs Price, Pete Newell, Mark Fox, Rene Herrerias and Dick Kutchen.

However, Mark Fox's 3-29 4th season was the WORST in Cal history, and the WORST in the entire country, #363 out of 363! Plus it was the lowest scoring team in the entire country #363 out of 363! Fox's 14 home losses also lead the country at #1! And nearly lead the country in lowest FG%, fewest made 3s, lowest 3pt%, fewest assists….

Mark Fox won his first game of the new year on Jan. 6th then never won another game. 0 for the rest of January, 0 for all of February and 0 for the month of March. And that year he finished with a 16 game losing streak? He started with a 12 game losing streak. And that was not while he was building the team bringing in young talent, that was the result of him running off the talent he inherited from Jones resulting in the worst Cal season of all time and the worst in the entire country. We have had other bad seasons at Cal but nothing comes close to what Mark Fox achieved.

Thank you for creating this synopsis. Personally, I wouldn't have the stomach to do it. If I recall correctly what I read on this board at the time(s), an additional similarity that Jones and Fox shared was that Knowlton actually had to have his arm twisted to fire both of them. Truth or urban legend?
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wifeisafurd
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In reply to sycasey • 9:13p, 7/14/25
sycasey said:
wifeisafurd said:
I can't recall a Big Game when both teams were even in the top 25.

Pretty sure 2009 was the last time (and a classic game!).

Yup. Cal was 25 and Furd was 17. Always will remember Vareen pounding the ball and Mickey Mo making the game saving play. Some major talent on the field for both teams that day. Before that is was 1991, and before that 1951. Not really the way to be in the national conversation.
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bearister
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In reply to calumnus • 10:04p, 7/14/25
I think Mark Fox's Al Davis-esq motto at Cal should have been:

"Commitment to Horribleness"

*I have had season tickets since 1987 , contributed $10K to the Haas Pavilion Fund (my wife and I have our names on the wall in the foyer) and…..I finally sh@it canned the tickets after 38 years. Why?

1. The facts outlined in your Big Beautiful Recap;
2. The death of the PAC 12 as we knew it (gosh I hate the ACC including, its f'ing TV analysts);
3. NIL's negative impact on the program;
4. The Portal's negative impact on the program;
5. My college buddies all dropped their tickets already;
6. A complete sense of hopelessness regarding the situation, you know, like the ending of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.


*I hereby pass the Go Bears Support Torch to the younger generation. I now repair to the elephant's graveyard to disappear in a bog.
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ducktilldeath
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In reply to HearstMining • 11:32p, 7/14/25
HearstMining said:
How about the Oregon- ASU rivalry over which school admits more California students who can't get into a UC?

ASU has quadruple the undergrad enrollment.
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ducky23
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11:38p, 7/14/25
Some rivalries matter cause it extends off the field. Like Yale Harvard or cal Stanford. But I wouldn't expect an Oregon grad to understand any of that.
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ducktilldeath
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In reply to ducky23 • 12:22a, 7/15/25
ducky23 said:
Some rivalries matter cause it extends off the field. Like Yale Harvard or cal Stanford. But I wouldn't expect an Oregon grad to understand any of that.

Absolutely. As a fan of west coast football, I'm well aware of the shenanigans, and they are infinitely more interesting than the football games themselves. Therein lies the problem.

BTW, I went to UC Davis, and adored my time there. I did not get in to Berkeley or Los Angeles or Brown or Penn or Chicago or it's a long expensive list.
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HearstMining
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In reply to ducktilldeath • 5:57a, 7/15/25
ducktilldeath said:
ducky23 said:
Some rivalries matter cause it extends off the field. Like Yale Harvard or cal Stanford. But I wouldn't expect an Oregon grad to understand any of that.

Absolutely. As a fan of west coast football, I'm well aware of the shenanigans, and they are infinitely more interesting than the football games themselves. Therein lies the problem.

BTW, I went to UC Davis, and adored my time there. I did not get in to Berkeley or Los Angeles or Brown or Penn or Chicago or it's a long expensive list.

I went to Cal from 1973-1976, back when you filled out a single application to the UC system and listed your preferred campuses in order. I was born and lived in Berkeley, and like a lot of kids, wanted to get out of town, so Davis was my first choice. Davis was hugely popular at the time and I still remember the rejection letter, saying that they were forwarding my application to Berkeley.
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BearSD
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In reply to ducktilldeath • 10:01a, 7/15/25
ducktilldeath said:
HearstMining said:
How about the Oregon- ASU rivalry over which school admits more California students who can't get into a UC?

ASU has quadruple the undergrad enrollment.

ASU wins that one hands down. For as long as I've been living in SoCal, ASU has been the go-to for kids who don't get into a UC but their parents don't want to tell their own friends that their kid is at Cal State _____.

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bearister
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10:07a, 7/15/25
In other news, as Cal athletics withers in the current landscape of college sports…….

"Michigan made history over the weekend, becoming the first school ever to have a first-round pick in the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL drafts in the same year.

NFL: Mason Graham (No. 5)
NHL: Will Horcoff (No. 24)
NBA: Danny Wolf (No. 27)
MLB: Mitch Voit (No. 38)
But wait, there's more: The Wolverines also had a first-round pick in the MLS Draft, with Jason Bucknor going No. 20 to the Galaxy.@
YahooSportsAM
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BearSD
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In reply to bearister • 10:10a, 7/15/25
bearister said:
In other news, as Cal athletics withers in the current landscape of college sports…….

"Michigan made history over the weekend, becoming the first school ever to have a first-round pick in the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL drafts in the same year.

NFL: Mason Graham (No. 5)
NHL: Will Horcoff (No. 24)
NBA: Danny Wolf (No. 27)
MLB: Mitch Voit (No. 38)
But wait, there's more: The Wolverines also had a first-round pick in the MLS Draft, with Jason Bucknor going No. 20 to the Galaxy.@
YahooSportsAM

LOL at including ice hockey, a sport that 90% of Division I schools don't have and even fewer care about, and at calling the 38th draft choice in a 30-team sport a "first-round pick".
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calumnus
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In reply to BearSD • 3:10p, 7/15/25
BearSD said:
bearister said:
In other news, as Cal athletics withers in the current landscape of college sports…….

"Michigan made history over the weekend, becoming the first school ever to have a first-round pick in the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL drafts in the same year.

NFL: Mason Graham (No. 5)
NHL: Will Horcoff (No. 24)
NBA: Danny Wolf (No. 27)
MLB: Mitch Voit (No. 38)
But wait, there's more: The Wolverines also had a first-round pick in the MLS Draft, with Jason Bucknor going No. 20 to the Galaxy.@
YahooSportsAM

LOL at including ice hockey, a sport that 90% of Division I schools don't have and even fewer care about, and at calling the 38th draft choice in a 30-team sport a "first-round pick".

Yet at the most critical time in the history of our athletics program we hired an AD whose sole expertise (other than US military bureaucracy) is ice hockey.
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Sebastabear
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In reply to HearstMining • 4:56p, 7/15/25
Quote:
[color=#000000]Thank you for creating this synopsis. Personally, I wouldn't have the stomach to do it. If I recall correctly what I read on this board at the time(s), an additional similarity that Jones and Fox shared was that Knowlton actually had to have his arm twisted to fire both of them. Truth or urban legend?[/color]

I don't think you have to be Inspector Poirot to get the answer on this one. Jim Knowlton put out a statement after firing Mark Fox talking about how it was an was such a difficult decision to make. Mark Fox who didn't just set the Cal record for losses in a season, or even Pac-12 losses in a season but losses by any coach at any school in the history of the P5.

And terminating him was "difficult."

I shared thoughts on this statement at the time on BI. I said it was humiliating. The correct statement to put out was one saying "We thank Mark Fox for his services and wish him well in his future endeavors but the success of the team this season and honestly the ones that preceded it were wholly unacceptable. We are the #1 public university in the world and we need to have a sports program that is reflective of our commitment to academic excellence. We are initiating a search immediately who can restore Cal Men's basketball to its former glory and win championships for us at Cal."

Instead we said moving on was "difficult."

Amusing side note, was that my contemporaneous rants about this from BI were sent to Jim Knowlton who then forwarded them on to me with a kind of "gotcha" caption. I was somewhat mystified. It's not exactly a secret who I am. Never has been. I wasn't exactly muttering under my breath. I believe my response to him was something along the lines of "Was this not clear? Did I stutter or something." Got no response back.

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In reply to Sebastabear • 5:31p, 7/15/25
Sebastabear said:
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[color=#000000]Thank you for creating this synopsis. Personally, I wouldn't have the stomach to do it. If I recall correctly what I read on this board at the time(s), an additional similarity that Jones and Fox shared was that Knowlton actually had to have his arm twisted to fire both of them. Truth or urban legend?[/color]

I don't think you have to be Inspector Poirot to get the answer on this one. Jim Knowlton put out a statement after firing Mark Fox talking about how it was an was such a difficult decision to make. Mark Fox who didn't just set the Cal record for losses in a season, or even Pac-12 losses in a season but losses by any coach at any school in the history of the P5.

And terminating him was "difficult."

I shared thoughts on this statement at the time on BI. I said it was humiliating. The correct statement to put out was one saying "We thank Mark Fox for his services and wish him well in his future endeavors but the success of the team this season and honestly the ones that preceded it were wholly unacceptable. We are the #1 public university in the world and we need to have a sports program that is reflective of our commitment to academic excellence. We are initiating a search immediately who can restore Cal Men's basketball to its former glory and win championships for us at Cal."

Instead we said moving on was "difficult."

Amusing side note, was that my contemporaneous rants about this from BI were sent to Jim Knowlton who then forwarded them on to me with a kind of "gotcha" caption. I was somewhat mystified. It's not exactly a secret who I am. Never has been. I wasn't exactly muttering under my breath. I believe my response to him was something along the lines of "Was this not clear? Did I stutter or something." Got no response back.

Insane that that SOB was taking a $1.3 million salary from Cal. As I said shortly after he was hired, we will be lucky if our program survives the damage he will do (has done).
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wifeisafurd
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In reply to Sebastabear • 8:32p, 7/15/25
Sebastabear said:
Quote:
[color=#000000]Thank you for creating this synopsis. Personally, I wouldn't have the stomach to do it. If I recall correctly what I read on this board at the time(s), an additional similarity that Jones and Fox shared was that Knowlton actually had to have his arm twisted to fire both of them. Truth or urban legend?[/color]

I don't think you have to be Inspector Poirot to get the answer on this one. Jim Knowlton put out a statement after firing Mark Fox talking about how it was an was such a difficult decision to make. Mark Fox who didn't just set the Cal record for losses in a season, or even Pac-12 losses in a season but losses by any coach at any school in the history of the P5.

And terminating him was "difficult."

I shared thoughts on this statement at the time on BI. I said it was humiliating. The correct statement to put out was one saying "We thank Mark Fox for his services and wish him well in his future endeavors but the success of the team this season and honestly the ones that preceded it were wholly unacceptable. We are the #1 public university in the world and we need to have a sports program that is reflective of our commitment to academic excellence. We are initiating a search immediately who can restore Cal Men's basketball to its former glory and win championships for us at Cal."

Instead we said moving on was "difficult."

Amusing side note, was that my contemporaneous rants about this from BI were sent to Jim Knowlton who then forwarded them on to me with a kind of "gotcha" caption. I was somewhat mystified. It's not exactly a secret who I am. Never has been. I wasn't exactly muttering under my breath. I believe my response to him was something along the lines of "Was this not clear? Did I stutter or something." Got no response back.


I personally saw Sebasterbear in action with Jim, and challenging him on several issues. Sebasterbear wasn't pulling his punches either, it was what you saw on BI. You guys should be proud to have such a strong advocate. Completely and utterly mystified by Jim's gotcha moment.
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In reply to wifeisafurd • 8:49p, 7/15/25
wifeisafurd said:
Sebastabear said:
Quote:
[color=#000000]Thank you for creating this synopsis. Personally, I wouldn't have the stomach to do it. If I recall correctly what I read on this board at the time(s), an additional similarity that Jones and Fox shared was that Knowlton actually had to have his arm twisted to fire both of them. Truth or urban legend?[/color]

I don't think you have to be Inspector Poirot to get the answer on this one. Jim Knowlton put out a statement after firing Mark Fox talking about how it was an was such a difficult decision to make. Mark Fox who didn't just set the Cal record for losses in a season, or even Pac-12 losses in a season but losses by any coach at any school in the history of the P5.

And terminating him was "difficult."

I shared thoughts on this statement at the time on BI. I said it was humiliating. The correct statement to put out was one saying "We thank Mark Fox for his services and wish him well in his future endeavors but the success of the team this season and honestly the ones that preceded it were wholly unacceptable. We are the #1 public university in the world and we need to have a sports program that is reflective of our commitment to academic excellence. We are initiating a search immediately who can restore Cal Men's basketball to its former glory and win championships for us at Cal."

Instead we said moving on was "difficult."

Amusing side note, was that my contemporaneous rants about this from BI were sent to Jim Knowlton who then forwarded them on to me with a kind of "gotcha" caption. I was somewhat mystified. It's not exactly a secret who I am. Never has been. I wasn't exactly muttering under my breath. I believe my response to him was something along the lines of "Was this not clear? Did I stutter or something." Got no response back.


I personally saw Sebasterbear in action with Jim, and challenging him on several issues. Sebasterbear wasn't pulling his punches either, it was what you saw on BI. You guys should be proud to have such a strong advocate. Completely and utterly mystified by Jim's gotcha moment.

Ha. Kind of you to say WIAF. I think I definitely came off of his Christmas card list pretty early. The Mark Fox thing and then of course us letting the city of Berkeley scratch half our starters when we played Arizona on the road because of contact tracing. Because what could possibly be "safer" for the kids? I mean, putting a bunch of students who had never played a snap of football on the road in a P5 game couldn't possibly get anyone hurt could it? He and I had a very unpleasant conversation when that decision came down. Insane.

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