Looperbear;842318049 said:

---

I think things may have been different with JT. He inherited a team with a losing record and got the same players to 7-5. It took him seven years or so to have a losing season and when he did he came back with a winning record and the Holiday Bowl. Then he had another losing season and got canned. At the time I thought it was the right decision but now I don't think so. I think we'd have done much better with JT last year than we did with Dykes and academics were in the process of getting corrected.

---

His deal with the Devil had expired and those left in the wake were sickened by the stench. Thus, 3-9 and turmoil aplenty. I don't know where you find a second win, even, with him at the helm last year. They were so thrilled to play for him that he might not even have fielded a full team, at least one that would play hard.

6bear6;842318058 said:

---

2013:
1. youngest team in the country;
2. most injured team in the country;
3. one of the hardest schedules in the country;
4. starting a true freshman QB
5. OL, upperclassmen injured, balance untested as a group;
6. DL, riddled with injury;
7. defensive backfield, CBs and Safety out injured;
8. few experienced LBs available due to injury;
9. running backs without a power back;
10. defensive coordinator unsuited for the position;
11. inability to score inside the opponent's 20 yardline; and,
12. Pac12 arguably the toughest conference from top to bottom.

2014:
1. Seven home games(incl. Levi's) and two BYEs;
2. experienced freshmen of 2013, now able to play D1 ball;
3. defensive coordinator Kaufman replaces Buh;
4. QB, one year smarter, stronger and knowledgeable of D1 ball;
5. QB of defense - Avery - is back and healthy;
6. McClure is back and healthy;
7. OL solidified with Moore, Borrayo, Adcock, M. Cochran and Rigsbee and backups Crosthwaite, A. Cochran, Bunte, Fairly, Frazer, Hinnant, Okafor.
8. Incoming QB Rubenzer, has played TF's offense;
9. Incoming running backs: Enwere and Watson = power and elusiveness;
10. Disruptive influences gone;
11. APR is up;
12. DL has some major pickups for depth;
13. Arguably the best receiving corp. in the Pac12;
14. A simplified playbook;
15. Improved defensive backfield coach;
16. Your choice here...
:gobears:

---

You've got youth being a negative in 2013 and a positive in 2014. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

calgo430;842318061 said:

---

I think dykes should be given every opportunity to turn the last two years around. My question is can he do it with our current players ? Much of the 2014 team was recruited by jt. I am a realist. If we can somehow win 4 games and suffer no blowout losses this will be a successful season.

---

Yeah, that would be huge, but I don't know how we're going to be able to avoid ANY blowout losses, when a few teams seem so much better than we do.

I'd settle for LESS blowout losses, if the blowouts seemed like significantly less was being blown out than last year.

Darby;842318068 said:

---

You've got youth being a negative in 2013 and a positive in 2014. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

---

Well, starting true freshmen in 2013 is a negative. Having those true freshmen get playing time in 2013 is a plus for 2014.

Man ...

Looperbear;842318049 said:

---

I think things may have been different with JT. He inherited a team with a losing record and got the same players to 7-5. It took him seven years or so to have a losing season and when he did he came back with a winning record and the Holiday Bowl. Then he had another losing season and got canned. At the time I thought it was the right decision but now I don't think so. I think we'd have done much better with JT last year than we did with Dykes and academics were in the process of getting corrected.

---

The Pac-10 was not very good at the beginning of JT's tenure.
Look at Sagarin
Teams in top 25
2002 3 of 10
2013 7 of 12 (and 4 of 12 in top-11)

Cal's Schedule difficulty
2002 31
2014 4

Also JT inherited a stocked roster including a senior at QB. Dykes inherited a mess academically and medically on a roster with massive holes (QB, OL, and DB). JT had everything going for him in 2007 and completely destroyed the program in five years. That's pretty incredible. Frankly, I wish the JT era never happened. It's hard to believe we'd be in a worse place right now. It's easy to say JT might have won more games last year but given the circumstances (injuries, monsoons, etc) I think the blowouts would have been WORSE as I think everyone would have quit on him and for good reason. He had no answers and his flaws were obvious to everyone.

hbbear;842318099 said:

---

The Pac-10 was not very good at the beginning of JT's tenure.
Look at Sagarin
Teams in top 25
2002 3 of 10
2013 7 of 12 (and 4 of 12 in top-11)

Cal's Schedule difficulty
2002 31
2014 4

Also JT inherited a stocked roster including a senior at QB. Dykes inherited a mess academically and medically on a roster with massive holes (QB, OL, and DB). JT had everything going for him in 2007 and completely destroyed the program in five years. That's pretty incredible. Frankly, I wish the JT era never happened. It's hard to believe we'd be in a worse place right now. It's easy to say JT might have won more games last year but given the circumstances (injuries, monsoons, etc) I think the blowouts would have been WORSE as I think everyone would have quit on him and for good reason. He had no answers and his flaws were obvious to everyone.

---

We'd be in a worse place if Tedford weren't here because the fanbase would have no hope of success. Tedford's greatest contribution was restoring hope to Cal Football and elevating our standards and in the end it brought his downfall since he wasn't able to meet the heights he reached early on.

Without Tedford we'd probably be crowing if we got bowl eligible once every three years rather than expecting it. Basically what lies in our near future if Dykes doesn't reverse trajectory fast.

StillNoStanfurdium;842318103 said:

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We'd be in a worse place if Tedford weren't here because the fanbase would have no hope of success. Tedford's greatest contribution was restoring hope to Cal Football and elevating our standards and in the end it brought his downfall since he wasn't able to meet the heights he reached early on.

Without Tedford we'd probably be crowing if we got bowl eligible once every three years rather than expecting it. Basically what lies in our near future if Dykes doesn't reverse trajectory fast.

---

For anyone like me who went to Cal after Joe Roth and before Bruce Snyder, this is the absolute truth. In between we had nothing except The Play, and of course the 1979 Garden State Bowl in New Jersey.

The talent we have is way, way better than 1-11. [U]With competent coaching we should be in a bowl game every single year.[/U]

+1

I was thinking whether Duke had the horses to go to a bowl game, and now is trending up? I mean Duke and Indiana have been the proverbial BDWs for decades. Cutcliffe has done a great job. Yah it's the coach.

Strykur;842318111 said:

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The talent we have is way, way better than 1-11. [U]With competent coaching we should be in a bowl game every single year.[/U]

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So what the hell happened to Tedford's teams the last three years?

hbbear;842318099 said:

---

Also JT inherited a stocked roster including a senior at QB. Dykes inherited a mess academically and medically on a roster with massive holes (QB, OL, and DB). JT had everything going for him in 2007 and completely destroyed the program in five years. That's pretty incredible. Frankly, I wish the JT era never happened. It's hard to believe we'd be in a worse place right now. It's easy to say JT might have won more games last year but given the circumstances (injuries, monsoons, etc) I think the blowouts would have been WORSE as I think everyone would have quit on him and for good reason. He had no answers and his flaws were obvious to everyone.

---

Total revisionist history. JT inherited such a stacked squad he went out and signed a boatload of Jucos. SD had far more highly recruited HS kids on his roster and did far less with them. Some want to blame the kids now because we have another rodeo with Sonny. That's a cop out, IMHO.

6bear6;842318058 said:

---

2013:
1. youngest team in the country;
2. most injured team in the country;
3. one of the hardest schedules in the country;
4. starting a true freshman QB
5. OL, upperclassmen injured, balance untested as a group;
6. DL, riddled with injury;
7. defensive backfield, CBs and Safety out injured;
8. few experienced LBs available due to injury;
9. running backs without a power back;
10. defensive coordinator unsuited for the position;
11. inability to score inside the opponent's 20 yardline; and,
12. Pac12 arguably the toughest conference from top to bottom.

2014:
1. Seven home games(incl. Levi's) and two BYEs;
2. experienced freshmen of 2013, now able to play D1 ball;
3. defensive coordinator Kaufman replaces Buh;
4. QB, one year smarter, stronger and knowledgeable of D1 ball;
5. QB of defense - Avery - is back and healthy;
6. McClure is back and healthy;
7. OL solidified with Moore, Borrayo, Adcock, M. Cochran and Rigsbee and backups Crosthwaite, A. Cochran, Bunte, Fairly, Frazer, Hinnant, Okafor.
8. Incoming QB Rubenzer, has played TF's offense;
9. Incoming running backs: Enwere and Watson = power and elusiveness;
10. Disruptive influences gone;
11. APR is up;
12. DL has some major pickups for depth;
13. Arguably the best receiving corp. in the Pac12;
14. A simplified playbook;
15. Improved defensive backfield coach;
16. Your choice here...
:gobears:

---

+1
If we have enough DT's and our injuries are not as numerous or catastrophic as last years, we could win six or seven. We do have the horses going into summer camp. I think the coaching will be fine. We need a few breaks.

hbbear;842318099 said:

---

Also JT inherited a stocked roster including a senior at QB.

---

Complete revisionism.

hbbear said:

---

JT had everything going for him in 2007 and completely destroyed the program in five years.

---

Since Tedford was the coach from '02 to '07, if indeed he had everything going for him in '07, wouldn't that be a testament to his abilities as a coach?

hbbear said:

---

Frankly, I wish the JT era never happened. It's hard to believe we'd be in a worse place right now. It's easy to say JT might have won more games last year but given the circumstances (injuries, monsoons, etc) I think the blowouts would have been WORSE as I think everyone would have quit on him and for good reason. He had no answers and his flaws were obvious to everyone.

---

Because the modern history of Cal football is great without Tedford? By several meaningful measurements, Tedford brought more success to Cal than any football coach in the last 50 years. But it's great for you that you wish his tenure had never happened, because it's unlikely we're going to see that kind of success anytime soon.

hbbear;842318099 said:

---

Also JT inherited a stocked roster including a senior at QB. Dykes inherited a mess academically and medically on a roster with massive holes (QB, OL, and DB). JT had everything going for him in 2007 and completely destroyed the program in five years. That's pretty incredible. Frankly, I wish the JT era never happened. It's hard to believe we'd be in a worse place right now. It's easy to say JT might have won more games last year but given the circumstances (injuries, monsoons, etc) I think the blowouts would have been WORSE as I think everyone would have quit on him and for good reason. He had no answers and his flaws were obvious to everyone.

---

[SIZE="5"]LOL. [/SIZE]

you have made the funniest statements I have heard all off-season. :bravo

beeasyed;842318178 said:

---

[SIZE="5"]LOL. [/SIZE]

you have made the funniest statements I have heard all off-season. :bravo

---

A partial list of Holmoe's holdovers. Some pretty good players there. 7-5 in 2002 was impressive but the signature wins (ex. Mich St) were a lot less so by the end of the year.

Kyle Boller
Tully Banta Cain
Lorenzo Alexander
Scott Fujita
Nnamdi Asomugha
Joe Igber
Terrell Williams
Chase Lyman
Geoff Mcarthur
Langston Walker
Lashaun Ward
Jemeel Powell
Mark Wilson
Matt Nixon
etc

Now here's a thought experiment. What if Tedford didn't find Aaron Rodgers while looking for a TE? Sure, he should get some credit for it but you can't dismiss the element of luck. Without Rodgers, do the Bears dominate in 2004? I think not. I think the recruiting pipeline would have dried up even sooner than it did and Tedford would've been gone several years earlier.

Do you think the players you listed ended up being pretty good players by themselves?

What did Boller's first 3 years look like under Holmoe for example?

hbbear;842318216 said:

---

A partial list of Holmoe's holdovers. Some pretty good players there. 7-5 in 2002 was impressive but the signature wins (ex. Mich St) were a lot less so by the end of the year.

Kyle Boller
Tully Banta Cain
Lorenzo Alexander
Scott Fujita
Nnamdi Asomugha
Joe Igber
Terrell Williams
Chase Lyman
Geoff Mcarthur
Langston Walker
Lashaun Ward
Jemeel Powell
Mark Wilson
Matt Nixon
etc

Now here's a thought experiment. What if Tedford didn't find Aaron Rodgers while looking for a TE? Sure, he should get some credit for it but you can't dismiss the element of luck. Without Rodgers, do the Bears dominate in 2004? I think not. I think the recruiting pipeline would have dried up even sooner than it did and Tedford would've been gone several years earlier.

---

Like most things, somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

slider643;842318136 said:

---

So what the hell happened to Tedford's teams the last three years?

---

Opinions vary. I'll go with moderately incompetent coaching due to burnout combined with recruiting failures at a key spot (OL). Talent was average to below average, not FCS-level like our 2013 results.

Darby;842318144 said:

---

Total revisionist history. JT inherited such a stacked squad he went out and signed a boatload of Jucos. SD had far more highly recruited HS kids on his roster and did far less with them. Some want to blame the kids now because we have another rodeo with Sonny. That's a cop out, IMHO.

---

And JT inherited a bigger mess--team was on probation, Holmoe was asleep at the switch.

Wishing the Tedford era never happened? Then you did not go to the games. The first five and a half years were the best since at least the last Rose Bowl.

I absolutely loved going with my brothers, both Bears, to Bowl games to watch the team play in Phoenix, San Diego, Vegas and San Diego again.

Tedford convinced those of us who were here when 8 games were never won that Cal football did not have to suck.

1979bear;842318270 said:

---

Wishing the Tedford era never happened? Then you did not go to the games. The first five and a half years were the best since at least the last Rose Bowl.

I absolutely loved going with my brothers, both Bears, to Bowl games to watch the team play in Phoenix, San Diego, Vegas and San Diego again.

Tedford convinced those of us who were here when 8 games were never won that Cal football did not have to suck.

---

Yep. All the Big Game wins, making UW his bitch after the streak against us, all the winning seasons...Good times for me and my long suffering buddies and with my kids who got a much different intro to Cal football than I did (Joe Kapp). I'll always be thankful to JT for all the good times he brought us and his loyalty to the Bears.

You said it better than I. It was the Big Game wins and beating Washington--ending a streak from before I started at Cal--that was unbelievable.

hbbear;842318216 said:

---

A partial list of Holmoe's holdovers. Some pretty good players there. 7-5 in 2002 was impressive but the signature wins (ex. Mich St) were a lot less so by the end of the year.

Kyle Boller
Tully Banta Cain
Lorenzo Alexander
Scott Fujita
Nnamdi Asomugha
Joe Igber
Terrell Williams
Chase Lyman
Geoff Mcarthur
Langston Walker
Lashaun Ward
Jemeel Powell
Mark Wilson
Matt Nixon
etc

Now here's a thought experiment. What if Tedford didn't find Aaron Rodgers while looking for a TE? Sure, he should get some credit for it but you can't dismiss the element of luck. Without Rodgers, do the Bears dominate in 2004? I think not. I think the recruiting pipeline would have dried up even sooner than it did and Tedford would've been gone several years earlier.

---

Holmoe was freakin awesome!!!

Reality:

Walker and Fujita graduated before Tedford got here.

Terrell Williams played sparingly - never gained more than 146 yards in a season for Tedford

Boller was a basket case who never came close to 50% completion rate before Tedford made him a first round pick.

Lashaun Ward was a lousy defensive back before Tedford moved him to WR and made him decent.

Nnamdi was an decent safety that the NFL never heard of before Tedford made him a first round draft pick at corner.

Fans wanted nothing to do with any of the guys on your list based on their performance pre-Tedford.

Ask those guys how they feel about what Tedford did for them.

Thought experiment: If ARod never came to Cal, and Tedford started Reggie Robertson in 2004, how badly could that team have decimated Cal's 2013 team?

Reality: Since 1980, Cal coaches not named Tedford have 4 winning seasons out of 23. Cal Coaches named Tedford have 9 out of 11.

Reality: 2002-2006 was the best record Cal has had over a 5 year period since 1952.

Reality: That success built a stadium and training facility that no one ever thought would happen in 2002.

So yes, let's throw that out because you can't put the last three years in perspective. Especially, let's throw it out so that we can defend the worst year in Cal history. I know I like 1-11 much better than 10-2.

But you keep convincing yourself that the difference between 1-11 and 10-2 is basically luck.

Damn it, I agree with Oaktown on this. There is a good chance that a better coach would've had a lot better season with Cals roster last year. However, Sonny ain't getting fired tomorrow, and I still have some faith that 2014 will be much improved. Either way, all this anti-Sonny stuff blows.

oski003;842318292 said:

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Damn it, I agree with Oaktown on this. There is a good chance that a better coach would've had a lot better season with Cals roster last year. However, Sonny ain't getting fired tomorrow, and I still have some faith that 2014 will be much improved. Either way, all this anti-Sonny stuff blows.

---

Bottom line, if sonnyshiners don't post how great Sonny is or how things aren't his fault, I won't post in rebuttal. But they don't get free reign because they are "positive".

OaktownBear;842318294 said:

---

Bottom line, if sonnyshiners don't post how great Sonny is or how things aren't his fault, I won't post in rebuttal. But they don't get free reign because they are "positive".

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Oaktown, there are plenty of people who are extreme on either side. I see you largely as a pragmatist. While Sonny's results thus far make it easy to criticize him (rightfully in many cases), I do think that fair assessment is possible without hysteria and character assassination. This upcoming year will be the litmus test as to whether Sonny has a future at Cal. I truly hope he succeeds. If not, on to the next (who chooses is a different matter). Go Bears!

kelly09;842318147 said:

---

+1
If we have enough DT's and our injuries are not as numerous or catastrophic as last years, we could win six or seven. We do have the horses going into summer camp. I think the coaching will be fine. We need a few breaks.

---

What will you and 6bear6 say if we win much less than six games next year? If we get blown out several times again? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but honestly, what would need to happen for you, 6bear6 and others to say Dykes is not the answer?

HKBear97;842318333 said:

---

What will you and 6bear6 say if we win much less than six games next year? If we get blown out several times again? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but honestly, what would need to happen for you, 6bear6 and others to say Dykes is not the answer?

---

How much many wins and how many blowout losses? I am pretty sure that even if we wildly over perform, a few blowout losses are inevitable considering our conference.

kelly09;842318147 said:

---

+1
If we have enough DT's and our injuries are not as numerous or catastrophic as last years, we could win six or seven. We do have the horses going into summer camp. I think the coaching will be fine. We need a few breaks.

---

The injury excuse is a canard. The guys that are always hurt were hurt last year. Shocking. In a stable program you don't even hear about those guys because somebody else steps up and takes the reps. Once you remove the always hurt guys from the equation you have an average number of injuries last year for a CFB program.

Having a few hurt kids play last year wouldn't have changed the results when Cal was getting blown out by 30 a game. Bottom line is Sonny and his staff didn't coach up the kids. The 1-11 and blown out in most games historic record reflects that.

He's also got injuries as 5 of the 12 factors for 2013's poor performance. If he'd gone injured player-by-injured player, maybe we would have had 25 reasons for 2013's implosion.

Darby;842318336 said:

---

... In a stable program you don't even hear about those guys because somebody else steps up and takes the reps. ...

---

Dykes did not take over a "stable" program. Period.
Guys required to "step up" included raw freshmen because we needed to field 11 players on O and D.

SonOfCalVa;842318400 said:

---

Dykes did not take over a "stable" program. Period.
Guys required to "step up" included raw freshmen because we needed to field 11 players on O and D.

---

everyone should be able to agree to this .. stable??? coming off 3-9 season new coaches new scheme yeah no

yes guys gotta step up next man u up ..but not the next next next man up that is not going to work .. on defense with super bad hire for DC ugly on top of ugly .. and that is pretty much what we saw

HKBear97;842318333 said:

---

What will you and 6bear6 say if we win much less than six games next year? If we get blown out several times again? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but honestly, what would need to happen for you, 6bear6 and others to say Dykes is not the answer?

---

NYCGOBEARS;842318334 said:

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How much many wins and how many blowout losses? I am pretty sure that even if we wildly over perform, a few blowout losses are inevitable considering our conference.

---

I accept Oregon and Mariota running train on us. that much I know. I'll even give them $C and their dysfunctional offense just b/c of their sheer depth of elite talent. Letting Stanfurd's slow, pro-style offense rack up 60+ was disgusting. As was letting Hundley look like an excellent passer, which he is not.

Last season, it was easier to remember when we didn't get blown out, over when we did. For intents and purposes, Ohio State was a blowout. Yes, I'm not counting the 2nd half moral victory, but the 0-21 1st quarter. Non blowout games: Northwestern, Portland State, and Arizona. Maybe WSU.

All I've ever wanted was to be competitive in every game... Where it doesn't look like we run out of gas in the first half...