Since 2007, we are 9 and 1 against teams generally located below the Mason-Dixon line. Maryland is a border state and we split the games accounting for one win and our one loss. The rest: Tennessee, La Tech, Presbyterian, Grambling, No. Carolina, Mississippi, Texas twice. Maybe we should join the SEC?

You have my permission to use this factoid at cocktail parties and bars, particularly, when the person you're speaking to went to Stanfurd or SC.

Man that 2007 LaTech game was one of the more forgettable experiences I ever had at a home game, hard to get amped by a bland 30-point blowout over a doormat in mid-September. Wonder why that was just a single game arrangement with them.

Strykur said:

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Man that 2007 LaTech game was one of the more forgettable experiences I ever had at a home game, hard to get amped by a bland 30-point blowout over a doormat in mid-September. Wonder why that was just a single game arrangement with them.

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It wasn't a single game arrangement with La. Tech. We travelled to Ruston or wherever the F Louisiana under Holmoe and lost of course. 2007 was the return game.

It might have been a 2-for-1 and we beat them another time at home before 2007 but I can't remember. I do remember the road loss to them though. It sucked. I think they dropped 40 on us in a shootout.

OneKeg said:

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Strykur said:

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Man that 2007 LaTech game was one of the more forgettable experiences I ever had at a home game, hard to get amped by a bland 30-point blowout over a doormat in mid-September. Wonder why that was just a single game arrangement with them.

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It wasn't a single game arrangement with La. Tech. We travelled to Ruston or wherever the F Louisiana under Holmoe and lost of course. 2007 was the return game.

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That first game was in 1997, going ten years between a home-and-home is bizarre if that was the case.

That 1997 LaTech team was pretty decent at 9-2, and infamously upset Alabama in Tuscaloosa that year. They rematched in 1999, and LaTech prevailed once more. And then guess who was the Alabama AD who got ****canned right after? Bob Bockrath.

Ya don't get carried away. In 'bama we don't consider Tennessee or NORTH Carolina to be part of the South. On the other hand did you forget that Cal beat Clemson in the Citrus Bowl in 1991? Their fans were darn nice about it, too.

cubzwin said:

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Ya don't get carried away. In 'bama we don't consider Tennessee or NORTH Carolina to be part of the South. On the other hand did you forget that Cal beat Clemson in the Citrus Bowl in 1991? Their fans were darn nice about it, too.

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North Carolina is SOUTH of Virginia, which was the capital of the Confederacy. Tennessee is in the SEC.

What's your point? Arizona is in the Pac conference. Doesn't mean you can buy ocean front property there.. The original White House of the Confederacy was in Montgomery, Alabama.

La Tech, Grambling, and Presbyterian aren't going to impress anyone who knows college football.
Beating Texas back to back years is enough for me.

calumnus said:

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cubzwin said:

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Ya don't get carried away. In 'bama we don't consider Tennessee or NORTH Carolina to be part of the South. On the other hand did you forget that Cal beat Clemson in the Citrus Bowl in 1991? Their fans were darn nice about it, too.

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North Carolina is SOUTH of Virginia, which was the capital of the Confederacy. Tennessee is in the SEC.

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As is Kentucky, which is NORTH of Tennessee.

I see that time frame was (purposely?) chosen to leave out the 2006 @Tennessee debacle?

Tennessee and North Carolina both seceded from the Union. Tennessee was the last to do so, because of significant pro-Union sentiment. During the CW, a fair number of Tennesseans fought for the United States.

TL;dr Tennessee & North Carolina are Southern states.

You're pretty astute, Bluehenbear. Yes, I started with Zack Follett and Desean Jackson, because that game was one for the ages. It also had Eric Ainge as QB and he's Danny Ainge's nephew. If you hate the Celtics then it meant a great deal when Zach met Eric at midfield.

One more thing. Can't we schedule Presbyterian again? The Bluehose were fun to watch, but the Grambling marching band was exceptional.

What I said was that the people in Alabama don't consider them part of the South. You guys simply don't know what you're taking about. The South is not synonymous with the states that voted to secede. This is not about geography or even history--it is about cultural perception. Also, there is no correct answer to the question--what is a southern state. The answer depends on to whom you ask the question. A poll of all Americans indicated majorities think that Tennessee, Virginia, Maryland, Texas, Florida and North Carolina are southern states. However, a poll of people in LA would have a different result. The majority of people in LA (Lower Alabama, of course) believe that the you are from the South if you are from Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia or Mississippi. Maybe you include people from East Texas and northwest Florida. For these people to consider you a southerner, It isn't good enough to be born in one of those places. Your family has to go back more than 3 generations.

Missouri is in the SEC. Is that a southern state, too? You do realize that conference expansion was about economics, right? That's why i gave the example of the Pac 12 including schools that are not near the Pacific Ocean.

cubzwin said:

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Missouri is in the SEC. Is that a southern state, too? You do realize that conference expansion was about economics, right? That's why i gave the example of the Pac 12 including schools that are not near the Pacific Ocean.

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Really don't know what your point is here. This is not the Alabama board. The people of Alabama are entitled to their opinion like everyone else, but the generally accepted definition of the South includes those states. We are from California and I think it is okay to talk about southern states in a conversation about football without acknowledging every local perception of what the South means. Many geographies are subject to local perceptions - I once met an English woman who insisted England was not part of Europe.

Sorry. Tennessee is a southern state whether the states of the Deep South wish to acknowledge it or not

I guess you don't understand that there are no "truths" only perceptions of what is true. Southern or not the Vols manage to tear the hearts out of their fans year after year.

cubzwin said:

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I guess you don't understand that there are no "truths" only perceptions of what is true. Southern or not the Vols manage to tear the hearts out of their fans year after year.

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That is great in a philosophy class. This is a football board having a football discussion. I guess my question to you is if we want to have a discussion about southern college football teams, how are we allowed to do that without you telling us we are wrong?

And I said generally accepted definition not truth.

cubzwin said:

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What I said was that the people in Alabama don't consider them part of the South. You guys simply don't know what you're taking about. The South is not synonymous with the states that voted to secede. This is not about geography or even history--it is about cultural perception. Also, there is no correct answer to the question--what is a southern state. The answer depends on to whom you ask the question. A poll of all Americans indicated majorities think that Tennessee, Virginia, Maryland, Texas, Florida and North Carolina are southern states. However, a poll of people in LA would have a different result. The majority of people in LA (Lower Alabama, of course) believe that the you are from the South if you are from Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia or Mississippi. Maybe you include people from East Texas and northwest Florida. For these people to consider you a southerner, It isn't good enough to be born in one of those places. Your family has to go back more than 3 generations.

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Memphis is right across the border from Mississippi, which is why Elvis and all those other Southern musicians went to Memphis to record and start their previously taboo cross-over music, which, if it doesn't characterize the South, then nothing does.

cubzwin said:

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Missouri is in the SEC. Is that a southern state, too? You do realize that conference expansion was about economics, right? That's why i gave the example of the Pac 12 including schools that are not near the Pacific Ocean.

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Appalachia is a universe (of Scotch-Irish immigrant culture) all its own, which extends much further North (certainly into fairly Northern parts of Pennsylvania) than most people realize; and, politically and culturally, it has (at least since the "Southern Strategy") sided with the South very strongly.

Let's not get into Missouri. It's complicated.

Tennessee and North Carolina had slaves, seceded from the Union, joined the Confederate States of America and took up arms against the United States of America. That's way too Southern for my liking.

Couldn't care less what the traitors in Alabama have to say.

East Tennessee did not have slaves and the majority people there were pro-union. West Tennessee had a cotton-based economy and pushed the state into joining the Confederacy. Ironically, what most people consider southern culture is stronger in East Tennessee than West Tennessee.
Fyght4Cal, you equate the modern South with slavery and with the Confederacy so you must also equate the modern Democratic Party with slavery and the Confederacy.
If people in Alabama are traitors (based on their political alignment in 1861) then so are all Democrats.
Might be time to update your world view.

cubzwin said:

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East Tennessee did not have slaves and the majority people there were pro-union. West Tennessee had a cotton-based economy and pushed the state into joining the Confederacy. Ironically, what most people consider southern culture is stronger in East Tennessee than West Tennessee.
Fyght4Cal, you equate the modern South with slavery and with the Confederacy so you must also equate the modern Democratic Party with slavery and the Confederacy.
If people in Alabama are traitors (based on their political alignment in 1861) then so are all Democrats.
Might be time to update your world view.

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Alabama & Mississippi are mainly unreconstructed. Thankfully we can't say the same about the Democratic Party.

I give Tennessee credit for its split sympathies. But in point of fact, Tennessee sent 4x as many troops to fight for the Confederacy as it did for the Union. Pro-slavery seems the more passionate side.

As for what constitutes the South, when your country fought a bloody, traumatic civil war clearly based on regional antipathies, then those regions will tend to be cemented into history. But beyond that, the North vs South, free vs slave split is in our national DNA. It is enshrined in all of our founding documents. Its institutions, such as the Electoral College, continue to haunt us in the present day.

The largest concentration of the African American population continues to reside in the former slave states. Almost, I repeat, almost all of the HBCUs are in the old Confederacy. Current Southern racial and political attitudes can be tracked by antebellum black/white population ratios at the county level.

As Kurt Vonnegut wrote, "The past is prologue". The South, modern and historical, cannot escape its enslaving and seditious identity. It scarcely tries, as it remains mired in its own self-indulgent mythos.