Andrew Luck - Biggest Bist since Ryan Leaf?

juarezbear
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Discuss
okaydo
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Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.
triplebear
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Luck's shoulder is likely shot. Injuries aren't so much a bust but a reality. Plenty of player's career end early due to injury, and they're not a bust. See Jahvid Best.

BTW, didn't Leaf break his throwing hand and that's sent his football career down the crapper? (The subsequent substance abuse is another matter.)
moonpod
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Wouldn't call Luck a bust Would say injury. He still has Chance to change narrative but the colts are a crappy franchise

Goff has gotten SOOOO Lucky that they finally canned fisher
juarezbear
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okaydo said:

Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.


Fair enough. I guess I'm just so F-ing tired of the non-stop Furd felating from commentators near and far. Early this year Goff was being eviscerated, and I haven't heard any humble pie from those ass bites. I remember Plunkett getting his ass beat with the Pats and was actually happy to see his re-birth with the Raiders. I guess I can't help dipping into shadenfreud now and again, especially when Love is being touted as a Heisman hopeful.
moonpod
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Yeah but unfortunately Love IS legit. Honestly seems maybe even better than McCaffrey as a between the tackles runner. Mccaffrey better in space and as a receiver.
59bear
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triplebear said:

Luck's shoulder is likely shot. Injuries aren't so much a bust but a reality. Plenty of player's career end early due to injury, and they're not a bust. See Jahvid Best.

BTW, didn't Leaf break his throwing hand and that's sent his football career down the crapper? (The subsequent substance abuse is another matter.)

I hate it when the bust label is put on guys who have performed to expectations when healthy but then get hurt. Luck was pro bowl worthy when healthy and I certainly wouldn't put him in the bust category.
MoragaBear
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Depends on how you define bist :p
juarezbear
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MoragaBear said:

Depends on how you define bist :p


Good point! I couldn't figure out how to edit the topic! I will gladly state that Luck isn't a bust. However, I disagree that Love is one of the top five players in the country. The AZ qb has been the best player in the Pac 12 since he was made the starter.
rathokan
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ok, i'll play along w/ your troll of a post, cuz clearly it seems like a lot of people around here have short or repressed memory

juarezbear
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rathokan said:

ok, i'll play along w/ your troll of a post, cuz clearly it seems like a lot of people around here have short or repressed memory




I'm not a Raiders fan so I had completely forgotten...-and, hey schmuck, I already admitted I was wrong about Luck. i think I'll just take my game over to the Bootleg and converse with some authentic Stanford fans.
rathokan
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I'm no Raider fan either, but I don't know how a QB who is a 3X Pro Bowler could be considered a bust, especially considering all the other QBs that have been taken. Even if he does have an annoying neck sweater, but yeah he's not the 2nd coming of Jesus in cleats either.

Interesting that the QB class of Winston and Mariota was supposed to be very good and the class of Goff, Wentz, & Prescott was supposed to be a weak QB class. Time will tell. I've enjoyed watching the three QBs from Goff's class.
burritos
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Was Mariota lucky or unlucky. Was he luckier or unluckier than Ryan Leaf part deux?

Honestly, I think the NFL constantly searches for the golden boy qb hero narrative. It advances their branding and promotes the U.S. public need to to idolize a nice guy hero who isn't too dark skinned. In the last 5 years Rodgers held that mantle. Luck was supposed to be an heir apparent, but he would do better doing Geico caveman commercials. Depending if the Rams are in fluke mode, Goff might succeed broken collarbone. But bottom line, does this help Cal recruiting?
okaydo
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Luck s 2-0 vs Rodgers by the way.
bearister
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Luck is a gamer and courageous. I'm a fan.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
juarezbear
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burritos said:

Was Mariota lucky or unlucky. Was he luckier or unluckier than Ryan Leaf part deux?

Honestly, I think the NFL constantly searches for the golden boy qb hero narrative. It advances their branding and promotes the U.S. public need to to idolize a nice guy hero who isn't too dark skinned. In the last 5 years Rodgers held that mantle. Luck was supposed to be an heir apparent, but he would do better doing Geico caveman commercials. Depending if the Rams are in fluke mode, Goff might succeed broken collarbone. But bottom line, does this help Cal recruiting?


Thank you my burrito brother!!!! My poorly articulated point was that Furd recruiting builds on the narrative of the golden boy. As you stated, fortunate or unfortunate turns of events dictate the outcome. Having Cal alums succeed helps fuel recruiting success, and I really wish we had a modicum of the respect given to Furd alums with similar levels of success.
going4roses
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Luck has never really been accepted/respected by his fellow NFL co workers.
rathokan
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i don't see Goff as the golden boy for the Rams... the real star of that team is the D. They've given the ball back to the O countless times with short fields and even scored points this year. Hope I'm wrong and Goff does indeed become the golden boy, but he's not close to being an heir apparent to anything right now.

that said... really nice to see Goff completing some downfield passes. obviously last week that bomb to Watkins that traveled 62 yards in the air was awesome. the one to Woods today went 50+ in the air. Jared also had a nice 20-25 yard dart to Kupp (I think) right down the middle. he's stepped up his play the last couple weeks, and it will be interesting to see if he can have these kinds of games against playoff teams when games are tight.

he looks like he has command of the O and is not turning the ball over.

and if you ever need to counter the "furd players are so smart" narrative, just show them this:

juarezbear
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going4roses said:

Luck has never really been accepted/respected by his fellow NFL co workers.


I hadn't heard that. If true, why?
touchdownbears43
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I think Luck is a legit bust. MASSIVE contract, tons of hype, injuries, no hardware or measurable success.
TheFiatLux
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okaydo said:

Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.
I love Cal fans. See, we had a QB was lucky because he ended up with a *****ty franchise. But also we had another QB was lucky because he ended with a gold standard of a franchise.

"Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise..." Um, he did. The Rams had ELEVEN straight losing seasons before he got there, including in that span a 3 win season, 2 2-win season, and a 1-win eason. You don;t have to imagine it. He did end up at a terrible franchise. And he's the one leading the turn around.
bross
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3-time pro bowler = no, not a bust
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/benrosssports
okaydo
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TheFiatLux said:

okaydo said:

Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.
I love Cal fans. See, we had a QB was lucky because he ended up with a *****ty franchise. But also we had another QB was lucky because he ended with a gold standard of a franchise.

"Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise..." Um, he did. The Rams had ELEVEN straight losing seasons before he got there, including in that span a 3 win season, 2 2-win season, and a 1-win eason. You don;t have to imagine it. He did end up at a terrible franchise. And he's the one leading the turn around.

There's a famous phrase -- "sh*t happens."

Well, my favorite phrase is "sh*t doesn't just happen."

Sean McVay was 30 when he was hired. He was born the same year as Lindsay Lohan, the Olson Twins, Shia LaBeouf and Lady Gaga.

Justin Wilcox, who turned 41 today, is one of the youngest coaches in college football.

Yet Wilcox, born in 1976, is nearly a full decade older than McVay, who was born in 1986.

So what was the response to a season that looked like a disaster with a #1 draft pick who looked "kinda butt""?






They took a chance on such a young guy, the youngest guy. They could've gone the "John Fox" route and repeated the Jeff Fisher era by hiring an NFL coach with veteran experience and some success.

Instead, they took that chance and hired McVay.

They recognized what a "disaster" their franchise had become and shook things up.

Sh*tty franchises don't do that.

Sh*tty franchises maintain the status quo. They don't try something new. They don't take risks. They don't gamble.

They also traded a lot of expensive draft picks to move up and draft Goff, which conventional wisdom considered a terrible move that would hurt the franchise for years.

They also pursued (or allowed McVay to pursue) Wade Phillips to lead the defense. Wade Phillips, who despite his age, still has a chip on his shoulder. (Looking at the score of tonight's Patriots-Broncos game, I'm thinking Denver really misses him.)

The Rams, reacting to a disastrous year, doubled down on Goff. They invested in the o-line. They made that a top priority, unlike some franchises (see Andrew Luck).

They got Goff weapons via free agency, via trade and via the draft.

Goff went from having a QB coach who first became a QB coach for a team the year that Goff beat Texas in Austin to having a QB coach who first became a QB coach the year he was born.

Look at all the franchises who invest in a top QB and surround him with garbage.

As Goff himself has been saying in his postgame press conferences, it's not just him that's improved, it's everything. It's the players. It's the approach. It's the game-planning. It's the logistics of the whole organization.

And this season's success (so far) is due to the front office. Yes, the same front office that was absolutely sh*tty. The same front office who stood by Jeff Fisher for far too long.

That same front office deserves credit for recognizing a problem, and seriously trying to address those problems instead of playing it safe.

As I said, sh*t doesn't just happen.
TheFiatLux
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okaydo said:

TheFiatLux said:

okaydo said:

Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.
I love Cal fans. See, we had a QB was lucky because he ended up with a *****ty franchise. But also we had another QB was lucky because he ended with a gold standard of a franchise.

"Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise..." Um, he did. The Rams had ELEVEN straight losing seasons before he got there, including in that span a 3 win season, 2 2-win season, and a 1-win eason. You don;t have to imagine it. He did end up at a terrible franchise. And he's the one leading the turn around.

There's a famous phrase -- "sh*t happens."

Well, my favorite phrase is "sh*t doesn't just happen."

Sean McVay was 30 when he was hired. He was born the same year as Lindsay Lohan, the Olson Twins, Shia LaBeouf and Lady Gaga.

Justin Wilcox, who turned 41 today, is one of the youngest coaches in college football.

Yet Wilcox, born in 1976, is nearly a full decade older than McVay, who was born in 1986.

So what was the response to a season that looked like a disaster with a #1 draft pick who looked "kinda butt""?






They took a chance on such a young guy, the youngest guy. They could've gone the "John Fox" route and repeated the Jeff Fisher era by hiring an NFL coach with veteran experience and some success.

Instead, they took that chance and hired McVay.

They recognized what a "disaster" their franchise had become and shook things up.

Sh*tty franchises don't do that.

Sh*tty franchises maintain the status quo. They don't try something new. They don't take risks. They don't gamble.

They also traded a lot of expensive draft picks to move up and draft Goff, which conventional wisdom considered a terrible move that would hurt the franchise for years.

They also pursued (or allowed McVay to pursue) Wade Phillips to lead the defense. Wade Phillips, who despite his age, still has a chip on his shoulder. (Looking at the score of tonight's Patriots-Broncos game, I'm thinking Denver really misses him.)

The Rams, reacting to a disastrous year, doubled down on Goff. They invested in the o-line. They made that a top priority, unlike some franchises (see Andrew Luck).

They got Goff weapons via free agency, via trade and via the draft.

Goff went from having a QB coach who first became a QB coach for a team the year that Goff beat Texas in Austin to having a QB coach who first became a QB coach the year he was born.

Look at all the franchises who invest in a top QB and surround him with garbage.

As Goff himself has been saying in his postgame press conferences, it's not just him that's improved, it's everything. It's the players. It's the approach. It's the game-planning. It's the logistics of the whole organization.

And this season's success (so far) is due to the front office. Yes, the same front office that was absolutely sh*tty. The same front office who stood by Jeff Fisher for far too long.

That same front office deserves credit for recognizing a problem, and seriously trying to address those problems instead of playing it safe.

As I said, sh*t doesn't just happen.

Holy phvck you're stretching... I tell you what good franchises DON'T do.

They don't don't go more than a decade without a winning season.

They don't finish last in the division 6 times in that stretch

They don't have a three year strecth where they win 6 games.... in total!!

They don't have a 5 year stretch where four of those years are 3 wins, 2 wins, 2 wins, 1 win.

This all started with you saying it's lucky Goff didn't land at a terrible franchise. That is EXACTLY where he landed. The Rams aren't responding to a disasterous year, they're reacting to a disasterour DECADE.

That it's changing now is great... but you're hilarious in how you always try to frame these things (and OF COURSE Goff is going to say what you said he says).

I've completely lost the melody of your song here...
burritos
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rathokan said:

i don't see Goff as the golden boy for the Rams... the real star of that team is the D. They've given the ball back to the O countless times with short fields and even scored points this year. Hope I'm wrong and Goff does indeed become the golden boy, but he's not close to being an heir apparent to anything right now.

that said... really nice to see Goff completing some downfield passes. obviously last week that bomb to Watkins that traveled 62 yards in the air was awesome. the one to Woods today went 50+ in the air. Jared also had a nice 20-25 yard dart to Kupp (I think) right down the middle. he's stepped up his play the last couple weeks, and it will be interesting to see if he can have these kinds of games against playoff teams when games are tight.

he looks like he has command of the O and is not turning the ball over.

and if you ever need to counter the "furd players are so smart" narrative, just show them this:


No doubt the defense is good and in large(if not most) part deserves the credit for this year's success. Goff doesn't have to be the best QB to be anointed the golden boy. He just has to be on a winning team where he throws more TD's than INTs. Watching Sunday night FB the talking head announcers are already throwing his name into the MVP ring with Brady and Wentz(who is legit). Really? Already? Yes, he's having a decent first half of the season but MVP? How about winning playoff game first? Hs name is thrown out there to bait the public into fawning over another glorious pretty gladiator(unless you don't think Ryan Gossling isn't pretty, he is).
MinotStateBeav
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Basically what I've gathered reading thru this thread is that Stanford sucks...big time.
Big C
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MinotStateBeav said:

Basically what I've gathered reading thru this thread is that Stanford sucks...big time.
That's my takeaway, as well!
juarezbear
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TheFiatLux said:

okaydo said:

Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.
I love Cal fans. See, we had a QB was lucky because he ended up with a *****ty franchise. But also we had another QB was lucky because he ended with a gold standard of a franchise.

"Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise..." Um, he did. The Rams had ELEVEN straight losing seasons before he got there, including in that span a 3 win season, 2 2-win season, and a 1-win eason. You don;t have to imagine it. He did end up at a terrible franchise. And he's the one leading the turn around.


Luck was a transcendent college QB. The best of his generation. Great arm, tough, and most importantly, big and physically thick. Remember DeCoud bouncing off him like a B.B.? He, not RGIII (a legit bust) deserved the Heisman. However, durability is another hallmark of great QBs. Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, and Rogers have all shown durability. I actually think a major mistake was bringing in his Stanford OC to the Colts. Didn't things go downhill afterwards?
okaydo
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TheFiatLux said:

okaydo said:

TheFiatLux said:

okaydo said:

Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.
I love Cal fans. See, we had a QB was lucky because he ended up with a *****ty franchise. But also we had another QB was lucky because he ended with a gold standard of a franchise.

"Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise..." Um, he did. The Rams had ELEVEN straight losing seasons before he got there, including in that span a 3 win season, 2 2-win season, and a 1-win eason. You don;t have to imagine it. He did end up at a terrible franchise. And he's the one leading the turn around.

There's a famous phrase -- "sh*t happens."

Well, my favorite phrase is "sh*t doesn't just happen."

Sean McVay was 30 when he was hired. He was born the same year as Lindsay Lohan, the Olson Twins, Shia LaBeouf and Lady Gaga.

Justin Wilcox, who turned 41 today, is one of the youngest coaches in college football.

Yet Wilcox, born in 1976, is nearly a full decade older than McVay, who was born in 1986.

So what was the response to a season that looked like a disaster with a #1 draft pick who looked "kinda butt""?






They took a chance on such a young guy, the youngest guy. They could've gone the "John Fox" route and repeated the Jeff Fisher era by hiring an NFL coach with veteran experience and some success.

Instead, they took that chance and hired McVay.

They recognized what a "disaster" their franchise had become and shook things up.

Sh*tty franchises don't do that.

Sh*tty franchises maintain the status quo. They don't try something new. They don't take risks. They don't gamble.

They also traded a lot of expensive draft picks to move up and draft Goff, which conventional wisdom considered a terrible move that would hurt the franchise for years.

They also pursued (or allowed McVay to pursue) Wade Phillips to lead the defense. Wade Phillips, who despite his age, still has a chip on his shoulder. (Looking at the score of tonight's Patriots-Broncos game, I'm thinking Denver really misses him.)

The Rams, reacting to a disastrous year, doubled down on Goff. They invested in the o-line. They made that a top priority, unlike some franchises (see Andrew Luck).

They got Goff weapons via free agency, via trade and via the draft.

Goff went from having a QB coach who first became a QB coach for a team the year that Goff beat Texas in Austin to having a QB coach who first became a QB coach the year he was born.

Look at all the franchises who invest in a top QB and surround him with garbage.

As Goff himself has been saying in his postgame press conferences, it's not just him that's improved, it's everything. It's the players. It's the approach. It's the game-planning. It's the logistics of the whole organization.

And this season's success (so far) is due to the front office. Yes, the same front office that was absolutely sh*tty. The same front office who stood by Jeff Fisher for far too long.

That same front office deserves credit for recognizing a problem, and seriously trying to address those problems instead of playing it safe.

As I said, sh*t doesn't just happen.

Holy phvck you're stretching... I tell you what good franchises DON'T do.

They don't don't go more than a decade without a winning season.

They don't finish last in the division 6 times in that stretch

They don't have a three year strecth where they win 6 games.... in total!!

They don't have a 5 year stretch where four of those years are 3 wins, 2 wins, 2 wins, 1 win.

This all started with you saying it's lucky Goff didn't land at a terrible franchise. That is EXACTLY where he landed. The Rams aren't responding to a disasterous year, they're reacting to a disasterour DECADE.

That it's changing now is great... but you're hilarious in how you always try to frame these things (and OF COURSE Goff is going to say what you said he says).

I've completely lost the melody of your song here...

The Colts have been to the playoffs in 16 of the past 22 seasons. It's a good thing Luck didn't end up playing for a sh*tty franchise.
Bear19
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When the exact nature of Luck's shoulder injury became clear, Herm Edwards (ESPN football analyst, former Cal DB) said he had never seen anyone with this type of injury come back sooner than one full year after surgery. The Colts & Luck made two mistakes: (1) Delaying the surgery for so long, and (2) Stressing the shoulder too soon before it was ready.

These two observations are made with hindsight of course.

Like everyone else here, I've seen Luck through college and with the Colts. He's always acted with class & maturity imo. I admire the way he's conducted himself.

He did make a COLOSSAL mistake in judgement by going to Furd, that cannot be disputed. Like everyone else who made that same mistake, his punishment is having to go through life as a Furdie. Terrible, awful fate. Maybe that has prepared him for the travails he is experiencing now.
going4roses
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My friend is coach/trainer/combine prep for NFL/MLB players.

His take from conversations with players and coaches.
juarezbear
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going4roses said:

My friend is coach/trainer/combine prep for NFL/MLB players.

His take from conversations with players and coaches.


Did they say why? I never heard scuttlebutt about him
being a jerk.
sketchy9
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TheFiatLux said:

okaydo said:

Uh, I don't want to go there. Peyton saved the Colts' asses.

But Luck can't do the same just because he ended up in a bad situation.

Us Cal fans our lucky in that Rodgers and Goff ended up in perfect situations.

Imagine if Rodgers had ended up at the 49ers .

Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise.

Jesus Christ, Goff is so lucky. So so lucky. So so so lucky that Jeff Fisher didn't go 7-9 last year or 8-8.
I love Cal fans. See, we had a QB was lucky because he ended up with a *****ty franchise. But also we had another QB was lucky because he ended with a gold standard of a franchise.

"Imagine if Goff had ended up at a terrible franchise..." Um, he did. The Rams had ELEVEN straight losing seasons before he got there, including in that span a 3 win season, 2 2-win season, and a 1-win eason. You don;t have to imagine it. He did end up at a terrible franchise. And he's the one leading the turn around.
Yes, if he had ended up at a terrible franchise, he might have been drafted with their #1 pick! Oh, wait...
sketchy9
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Bust or not, Luck really needs to do something about that neckbeard. He's a multimillionaire, can't he invest in a quality razor?
Bear8
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Goff has always been a superior quarterback because of his accuracy. Of course, I only watched him for three years at Cal and now two years in L.A. Last season, without the help of Andrew Whitworth at left tackle instead of real bust, Greg Robinson, he had no chance to demonstrate his superiority. His OL was, in a word, terrible. Now you're seeing the real Goff. The one we saw when his Oline gave him some time in Berkeley. He also had the benefit of some terrific receivers in Treggs, Harper, Powe, Harris (and I know I'm forgetting someone else here). The Rams have also given him some high quality receivers in Watkins, Wood, Cupp, Spruce. That's a magical combination: a highly accurate passer, a high quality Oline and receivers who have the ability to grab anything near them and can get the necessary separation. It should also be mentioned that the Rams have had one of the best defenses in the NFL for the past several years. But even a great defense can only keep you in a game for so long.

Now, if Ross Bowers had the same cast of characters around him our offense would likely be worthy of discussion and we wouldn't be 17 point underdogs to the Furd. Our loss of our first line of receivers and a banged-up offensive line has hurt us immeasurably. I have faith in Bowers' ability to lead this team if he has a decent opportunity to assess a defense and make a throw. I hope Wilcox can recruit a Robertson/Hansen clone for next season. He's on the right track with OLine recruits. We aren't that far off ...
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