I can get getting panicky in the pocket and not being able to break down a defense, but lack of arm strength is a total killer. Either Bowers hits the weight room like a maniac this off-season, or get him out of here.

I thought he played well, but for that pick. You can't throw it that late over the middle. I think his arm strength is plenty sufficient. I blame our OC some for that. The sprint outs were not working. No need to get impatient there.

It's on Baldwin as much as it's on Bowers (and it's very heavily on Bowers):

1. Got a gift missed FG
2. Need to grind clock
3. Laird averaging 6+ yards per carry tonight
4. That rollout moving pocket thing was tried two or three times previously and failed miserably (one example is that underthrown ball to Noa in the red zone that was totally snuffed out by Furd)
5. Bowers hasn't shown the arm strength or decision making ability to trust him with that throw
6. Putting the true freshman Hawkins in that situation

So many levels of dumb. Putting a bowl berth on the line for that *****

pappysghost said:

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I thought he played well, but for that pick. You can't throw it that late over the middle. I think his arm strength is plenty sufficient. I blame our OC some for that. The sprint outs were not working. No need to get impatient there.

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I think Bowers' sweet spot is short/mid range. Long ball is just not his game.

cal2000 said:

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pappysghost said:

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I thought he played well, but for that pick. You can't throw it that late over the middle. I think his arm strength is plenty sufficient. I blame our OC some for that. The sprint outs were not working. No need to get impatient there.

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I think Bowers' sweet spot is short/mid range. Long ball is just not his game.

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not a verdict until he has some speedster WR. Can't believe we're so depleted at that position.

I'd have to watch the play again, but I think there were other shorter options for a safe throw. Bowers may have gotten tunnel vision with the deep guy (first year starters will do
that).

You're right but he should be able to throw it out there and hit the guy at 45 to 50 yards like Montana to Rice.

He threw some of those same balls for picks in the USC game. Maybe a weakness of his? Hopefully he'll learn.

sycasey said:

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I'd have to watch the play again, but I think there were other shorter options for a safe throw. Bowers may have gotten tunnel vision with the deep guy (first year starters will do
that).

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He had a WR open 12 yards down on crossing route I believe.

HungryCalBear said:

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cal2000 said:

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pappysghost said:

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I thought he played well, but for that pick. You can't throw it that late over the middle. I think his arm strength is plenty sufficient. I blame our OC some for that. The sprint outs were not working. No need to get impatient there.

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I think Bowers' sweet spot is short/mid range. Long ball is just not his game.

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not a verdict until he has some speedster WR. Can't believe we're so depleted at that position.

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Exactly! Robertson could make a big difference for us.

pappysghost said:

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He threw some of those same balls for picks in the USC game. Maybe a weakness of his? Hopefully he'll learn.

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Yeah this was a lot like the pick in the USC game. Haven't seen that for a while.

Strykur said:

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I can get getting panicky in the pocket and not being able to break down a defense, but lack of arm strength is a total killer. Either Bowers hits the weight room like a maniac this off-season, or get him out of here.

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As others have pointed out, this is not all on Bowers. Look - this team was thin, and we've had some of our best players (Watson, Downs) lost to injury. Missed FG and a a bad pass/bad play call (depending on your viewpoint) is what kept us out of this game. Want to look at a bigger picture? Tonight's 2 pt conversion call is what we should have run against the Wildcats.

To answer your point: I think Bowers hits the weight room like a maniac; we try to recruit a 5 star; and no matter what, it's an open competition next summer. I think Bowers is a "good" QB and the coaches need to take the coming months to make him a "very good to great" QB.

There isn't any scenario in which Wilcox puts his second year at Cal in the hands of Bowers. Bowers get this year and then rides the pine

5-star or Elite Eleven QBs are no guarantee. There are way more busts from 5-stars than those who make the next level. Remember guys, Aaron Rodgers was a non-rated JC transfer. Hell Joe Roth was a JC transfer as well. So was Pawlowski.

I'm with others here who thinks improved skill positions (back from injury) or recruited helps the cause more. Bowers isn't Goff but more experience, maturity and better skill players and OL should help plenty...and a DEFENSE. Geez, don't forget that. Despite not a lot of talent, Cal's D has been a revelation and should only get better.

I think Bowers will have the edge going through spring and into summer camp. I mean he has a whole year in the system. He needs to get stronger and eliminate some of the turnovers but I think he will. He wasn't horrible. Just not great.Garbers and McIlwain will have a chance to beat him out but he'll be the early favorite. McIlwain is more athletic and adds another dimension to offense but he wasn't terribly accurate as a passer at South Carolina. I don't know what to expect from Garbers. I also think the rest of the offense needs to improve as well. It's not just about the quarterback.

sycasey said:

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I'd have to watch the play again, but I think there were other shorter options for a safe throw. Bowers may have gotten tunnel vision with the deep guy (first year starters will do
that).

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Which made it even riskier. We had to get at least 3 there. Coming up with nothing was the game.

triplebear said:

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5-star or Elite Eleven QBs are no guarantee. There are way more busts from 5-stars than those who make the next level. Remember guys, Aaron Rodgers was a non-rated JC transfer. Hell Joe Roth was a JC transfer as well. So was Pawlowski.

I'm with others here who thinks improved skill positions (back from injury) or recruited helps the cause more. Bowers isn't Goff but more experience, maturity and better skill players and OL should help plenty...and a DEFENSE. Geez, don't forget that. Despite not a lot of talent, Cal's D has been a revelation and should only get better.

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I could be wrong but I recall Pawlawski being recruited directly out of high school (and playing special teams before being QB as a junior). I also remember he was labelled as the "worst" recruit in the conference, the press not anticipating him to be named Offensive POY.

If anyone here thinks that recruiting a 5-star QB solves every problem, well, there are a whole lot of UCLA fans laughing at how wrong that is.

Less arm strength and we win! He overthrew at least two receivers who had their defender beat deep by a couple of yards.

pappysghost said:

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I thought he played well, but for that pick. You can't throw it that late over the middle. I think his arm strength is plenty sufficient. I blame our OC some for that. The sprint outs were not working. No need to get impatient there.

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WR had defenders beat, Bowers had insuficient arm strength and threw it behind WR. Last year's QB it is a TD and a win. There were several passes where the WR had his guy beat for 7 and the pass wasn't there. I don't see Bowers starting next year w/o improving his arm strength and accuracy.

Troll On You Bears said:

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It's on Baldwin as much as it's on Bowers (and it's very heavily on Bowers):

1. Got a gift missed FG
2. Need to grind clock
3. Laird averaging 6+ yards per carry tonight
4. That rollout moving pocket thing was tried two or three times previously and failed miserably (one example is that underthrown ball to Noa in the red zone that was totally snuffed out by Furd)
5. Bowers hasn't shown the arm strength or decision making ability to trust him with that throw
6. Putting the true freshman Hawkins in that situation

So many levels of dumb. Putting a bowl berth on the line for that *****

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I completely agree. If Baldwin actually called that long pass play, this loss is on him. We were moving the ball nicely on that series with short passes and running plays. Plus we wanted to use clock as we marched down the field and, hopefully, scored the winning TD. Bowers hasn't been accurate on long passes all season.

BearSD said:

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If anyone here thinks that recruiting a 5-star QB solves every problem, well, there are a whole lot of UCLA fans laughing at how wrong that is.

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UCLA has a lot of problems, but QB is not one of them. If not for Rosen UCLA would be the Oregon State of the PAC-12 South.

HungryCalBear said:

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cal2000 said:

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pappysghost said:

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I thought he played well, but for that pick. You can't throw it that late over the middle. I think his arm strength is plenty sufficient. I blame our OC some for that. The sprint outs were not working. No need to get impatient there.

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I think Bowers' sweet spot is short/mid range. Long ball is just not his game.

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not a verdict until he has some speedster WR. Can't believe we're so depleted at that position.

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This team as currently constituted may be the slowest team since Ed Barbero was our leading rusher. We have nobody who scares defenses. It's a miracle we've won 5 games.

wifeisafurd said:

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pappysghos said:

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WR had defenders beat, Bowers had insuficient arm strength and threw it behind WR. Last year's QB it is a TD and a win. There were several passes where the WR had his guy beat for 7 and the pass wasn't there. I don't see Bowers starting next year w/o improving his arm strength and accuracy.

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The reason he didn't have enough on that ball is that he threw after stepping up in the pocket. Which is a weird thing to say, but he stepped up and did not throw it as he was stepping up, but rather afterwards and he didn't get his body into the throw. I still think it's a symptom of his lack of height (there's zero chance he's actually at his listed height of 6'3"). The resulting poor visibility impacts the speed at which he can go through his reads and sometimes forces him to step up in the pocket to get better LoS. You'll note he didn't show poor arm strength when he was called to make quick throws to the side of the field - less visibility issues there. But yeah, that was a big missed opportunity.

It is what it is. He's not a good Qb right now, but he's the best Cal has. And there are certainly worse out there starting for P5 programs. Will he get better next year? Maybe. Maybe not. Always hard to predict that one.

Strykur said:

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I can get getting panicky in the pocket and not being able to break down a defense, but lack of arm strength is a total killer. Either Bowers hits the weight room like a maniac this off-season, or get him out of here.

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Lifting weights doesn't improve the type of arm strength one needs to throw. It's basically a gift: You have it or you don't.

Some cases in point: John Elway had a howitzer when he was a 180 lb. high school boy. On the other hand, Barry "That's the farthest I've ever seen a ball hit" Bonds' weakness was he didn't have a strong arm for throws from the outfield.

Bowers' arm is mediocre. He can get a little better by making that pass (the INT) a split second earlier. But his arm is what it is.

While frustrating that a winnable game didn't go our way, don't forget we went into the game as 16 point underdogs. It's a measure of how far the team has developed this year - we've been blown out each Big Game in the last four years.

Also don't forget that coming into this game we had 11 key player season ending injuries, on both offense & defense.

It will be exciting to see what Wilcox can do with the players he recruits.

Strykur said:

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BearSD said:

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If anyone here thinks that recruiting a 5-star QB solves every problem, well, there are a whole lot of UCLA fans laughing at how wrong that is.

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UCLA has a lot of problems, but QB is not one of them. If not for Rosen UCLA would be the Oregon State of the PAC-12 South.

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Well, this is true, but they really aren't much better than OSU. Rosen is so up and down, injured and not, rushed at times to effect his play, wide open at times to pick teams apart. Which Rosen does one see? If we get the one where he's tossing balls with his dad in the back yard, we are in trouble. Defense step up. Game plan, heavy rush and blitz packages please.

Strykur said:

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I can get getting panicky in the pocket and not being able to break down a defense, but lack of arm strength is a total killer. Either Bowers hits the weight room like a maniac this off-season, or get him out of here.

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Wow, mail that suggestion to the staff. Offering a 5 star? They couldn't have possibly thought of that.

cal2000 said:

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pappysghost said:

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I thought he played well, but for that pick. You can't throw it that late over the middle. I think his arm strength is plenty sufficient. I blame our OC some for that. The sprint outs were not working. No need to get impatient there.

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I think Bowers' sweet spot is short/mid range. Long ball is just not his game.

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Which is a problem next year with DRob back. Cal needs a QB who can stretch the field with accurate, long throws. That's not gonna be Bowers. I think the "bench Bowers this season" crowd is stupid, but if Cal doesn't find someone else next season, it's going to be another dogfight for six wins and a Furd Axe. This team deserves better than that.

BearSD said:

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If anyone here thinks that recruiting a 5-star QB solves every problem, well, there are a whole lot of UCLA fans laughing at how wrong that is.

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LOL. Rosen is the only good thing on that team.

Bottom line with DRob back next season Cal needs a QB who can deliver him the deep ball on a regular basis. Doesn't need to be 5* but at least a QB with a better arm than Bowers. Shouldn't be that tall of an order.

It's a problem of mental approach as much as anything.
The Bowers/Baldwin approach, once we are engaged in a solid drive, is to try to draw the DBs in by gashing the D with Laird runs and short-medium passes and then go deep. But we don't have the personnel to go deep.

Why not be patient and grind all the way down the field. This is what works the rest of the time and it is characteristic of our successful TD drives. The tendency of Baldwin to get greedy and impatient is something that needs to be addressed by Wilcox and wiped off the playbook for UCLA. Until we get Robertson and Stovall back and have a different QB (including the possibility of a different Bowers in 2018), this should not be part of our offensive ID. I believe it cost us the Arizona and Furd games and quite possibly some others.

I realize that Bowers has improved considerably over the season but he is not ready for a deep game. I'm hoping he will be ready next season because he is really becoming a legit Pac-12 QB and I'd like to see what he can do next season with Watson, Stovall and Robertson back.

bearsandgiants said:

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Noa was hardly utilized tonight. Strange

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Cal had only 6 possession and ran the ball well. Furd also probably tried to focus on Noa since he is Cal's most productive WR, and Furd's best defenders this year are in the secondary, not the front 7.

Cal84 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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pappysghos said:

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WR had defenders beat, Bowers had insuficient arm strength and threw it behind WR. Last year's QB it is a TD and a win. There were several passes where the WR had his guy beat for 7 and the pass wasn't there. I don't see Bowers starting next year w/o improving his arm strength and accuracy.

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The reason he didn't have enough on that ball is that he threw after stepping up in the pocket. Which is a weird thing to say, but he stepped up and did not throw it as he was stepping up, but rather afterwards and he didn't get his body into the throw. I still think it's a symptom of his lack of height (there's zero chance he's actually at his listed height of 6'3"). The resulting poor visibility impacts the speed at which he can go through his reads and sometimes forces him to step up in the pocket to get better LoS. You'll note he didn't show poor arm strength when he was called to make quick throws to the side of the field - less visibility issues there. But yeah, that was a big missed opportunity.

It is what it is. He's not a good Qb right now, but he's the best Cal has. And there are certainly worse out there starting for P5 programs. Will he get better next year? Maybe. Maybe not. Always hard to predict that one.

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There were several missed opportunities that would have been TD's with say Webb or Costello. I'm not a QB expert, your analysis could be dead on, but for whatever reason, Bowers can't throw deep with accuracy. I'm expecting Cal to have a good running attack next year, and they need someone who can throw over the defense to counteract defenses aimed at the stopping the run. Right now, that isn't Bowers.

heartofthebear said:

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It's a problem of mental approach as much as anything.
The Bowers/Baldwin approach, once we are engaged in a solid drive, is to try to draw the DBs in by gashing the D with Laird runs and short-medium passes and then go deep. But we don't have the personnel to go deep.

Why not be patient and grind all the way down the field. This is what works the rest of the time and it is characteristic of our successful TD drives. The tendency of Baldwin to get greedy and impatient is something that needs to be addressed by Wilcox and wiped off the playbook for UCLA. Until we get Robertson and Stovall back and have a different QB (including the possibility of a different Bowers in 2018), this should not be part of our offensive ID. I believe it cost us the Arizona and Furd games and quite possibly some others.

I realize that Bowers has improved considerably over the season but he is not ready for a deep game. I'm hoping he will be ready next season because he is really becoming a legit Pac-12 QB and I'd like to see what he can do next season with Watson, Stovall and Robertson back.

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Is Watson coming back? He's listed as a Senior.