QB Situation

10,570 Views | 79 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Cave Bear
tim94501
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So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Golden One
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tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Yes, unfortunately, Bowers just cannot complete a pass beyond 15 yards. It's been that way all season. You'd think, however, that Baldwin would have realized that fact by now and would not call the play he did tonight against Stanfurd, resulting in the interception that cost us the game. We were moving the ball nicely on that series via a combination of short passes and runs; then, boom, the interception. I blame Baldwin for calling the play in the first place.
chalcidbear
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I don't think Baldwin specifically called for a long bomb. I think the play called for getting several receivers downfield, and Bowers choose the wrong one to throw to.
tim94501
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I don't think that was his only option. Hawkins was way behind the defense though and kinda like a slap hitting catching a hanging curve he went for it. That ball hung in the air FO EV ER
Big C
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Golden One said:

tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Yes, unfortunately, Bowers just cannot complete a pass beyond 15 yards. It's been that way all season. You'd think, however, that Baldwin would have realized that fact by now and would not call the play he did tonight against Stanfurd, resulting in the interception that cost us the game. We were moving the ball nicely on that series via a combination of short passes and runs; then, boom, the interception. I blame Baldwin for calling the play in the first place.
Bowers throws that pass 1/2 second EARLIER and it's a TD.
cubzwin
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No. It would have been an interception that occurred a half second earlier. The bowl floated and was under thrown.
oskidunker
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whatever the reason is, no long throws have been completed all year.If you cant do this, you need a breakaway running back(Love) . We have neither.
Go Bears!
chazzed
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oskidunker said:

whatever the reason is, no long throws have been completed all year.If you cant do this, you need a breakaway running back(Love) . We have neither.
He completed one against North Carolina, had a perfect throw go through the receiver's hands at UW, and should've had another long completion last night (toward the end of the game our receiver dove and couldn't reel it in, but if he adjusts a tad away from the sideline, it was catchable). But, yes, bombs are not his strong suit.
CAL6371
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CAL6371
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Does anyone know how many times Cal got in the red zone or to the opponents 35 yard line and what the results were each time this season? Seems to me that Bowers tends to fail a lot in that area. His judgment and his ability to avoid the rush are still problem areas. He did have a good game and he's a great kid, but I hope we find a challenger next Spring and next Fall.
TheSouseFamily
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CAL6371 said:

Does anyone know how many times Cal got in the red zone or to the opponents 35 yard line and what the results were each time this season? Seems to me that Bowers tends to fail a lot in that area. His judgment and his ability to avoid the rush are still problem areas. He did have a good game and he's a great kid, but I hope we find a challenger next Spring and next Fall.


We're 98th in red zone scoring % (FG or TD) at 81%

I haven't seen stats that rank TD/RZ opps or FG/RZ opps or something like points/RZ opp. That's probably the most useful stat.

But we've had 42 red zone opps which yielded 13 Rush TD, 12 passing TDs and 9 FG for a total of 34 red zone scores

Oddly enough Arizona State (and Georgia) lead the country with a 98% rate
tequila4kapp
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I've been in the camp that has said Bowers is a first year player, we have had injuries to our OL/WRs, etc.

I was at the game. It was the first Time I came away thinking we need a different players at the QB spot. To my naked eye it sure seemed like Baldwin schemed a great game to give Bowers a lot of easy reads, we mostly gave him very easy throws, we don't ask much of our QB...and he couldn't handle it. The INT was the obvious one. But there were throws earlier in the game where the throws were so off the mark the WR didn't even have a chance. He has very little presence in the pocket.

I hate to bag on a kid but with the season nearly over he's not really just a first year player any longer. He either takes a big step up next year or the transfer from SC wins the job or we are going to struggle again.
mbBear
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tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Plenty of blame to go around...putting it all on Bowers is the easy way out. Why are they throwing deep in the first place? Laird is running well, and some shorter passes are working. Second, if you can show me a WR making a worse play on a ball than that, I will gladly watch. Granted that Hawkins is 5-8 and a true frosh, but that ball is knocked down by an average receiver.
tequila4kapp
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mbBear said:

tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Plenty of blame to go around...putting it all on Bowers is the easy way out. Why are they throwing deep in the first place? Laird is running well, and some shorter passes are working. Second, if you can show me a WR making a worse play on a ball than that, I will gladly watch. Granted that Hawkins is 5-8 and a true frosh, but that ball is knocked down by an average receiver.
Don't know if it was true on that play but Furd was putting 8 in the box. At some point you have to throw it downfield.
mbBear
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tequila4kapp said:

mbBear said:

tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Plenty of blame to go around...putting it all on Bowers is the easy way out. Why are they throwing deep in the first place? Laird is running well, and some shorter passes are working. Second, if you can show me a WR making a worse play on a ball than that, I will gladly watch. Granted that Hawkins is 5-8 and a true frosh, but that ball is knocked down by an average receiver.
dint know if it was true in that play but furs was putting 8 in the box. At some point you have to throw it downfield.
That's how you end up with 1 on 1 coverage for the quick outs, and slants. Their weren't at their own 10. Move the ball...
OdontoBear66
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mbBear said:

tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Plenty of blame to go around...putting it all on Bowers is the easy way out. Why are they throwing deep in the first place? Laird is running well, and some shorter passes are working. Second, if you can show me a WR making a worse play on a ball than that, I will gladly watch. Granted that Hawkins is 5-8 and a true frosh, but that ball is knocked down by an average receiver.
Agreed to an extent, but rather than "putting it all on Bowers" I think people are talking about what they see as needs. For example, the offensive line was much improved this year, is young, and for next year has been recruited well. The same feeling is not there at QB. Many posters feel that QB is a gritty, tough young man who is just limited in his abilities to up his game much more. Myself, I have some of the same fears with the defensive line next year with what we have on the table. Not so at DB or LB, or even WR & RB (assuming the injured return). It is just a talent eval. Now if you are his roommate, or his mom, etc. I can see you taking it as "putting it on Bowers". The young man is good, just not foreseen as the one to up the program in the Wilcox era.
TheSouseFamily
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An interesting set of numbers:

Total Cal passing plays of 10+ yards: 112 (32nd in the country) - 2016 rank: 9

Total Cal passing plays of 20+ yards: 34 (62nd in the country) - 2016 rank: 14

Total Cal passing plays of 30+ yards: 9 (116th in the country) - 2016 rank: 19
mbBear
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OdontoBear66 said:

mbBear said:

tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Plenty of blame to go around...putting it all on Bowers is the easy way out. Why are they throwing deep in the first place? Laird is running well, and some shorter passes are working. Second, if you can show me a WR making a worse play on a ball than that, I will gladly watch. Granted that Hawkins is 5-8 and a true frosh, but that ball is knocked down by an average receiver.
Agreed to an extent, but rather than "putting it all on Bowers" I think people are talking about what they see as needs. For example, the offensive line was much improved this year, is young, and for next year has been recruited well. The same feeling is not there at QB. Many posters feel that QB is a gritty, tough young man who is just limited in his abilities to up his game much more. Myself, I have some of the same fears with the defensive line next year with what we have on the table. Not so at DB or LB, or even WR & RB (assuming the injured return). It is just a talent eval. Now if you are his roommate, or his mom, etc. I can see you taking it as "putting it on Bowers". The young man is good, just not foreseen as the one to up the program in the Wilcox era.
"The putting it all on Bowers" was simply in terms of the Int. Bigger picture-how does he respond with a year under his belt, an off-season in the weight room, improved WR's, a solid RB group coming into the season, and a better O-line? Don't know, and if he can be beat out, then so be it. I don't think its as automatic as some, like somehow Joe Roth is sitting on the bench, but we will see.
I think they need depth at D-line, no question, but Palmer has come out of nowhere, and I am of the belief that Cal isn't losing guys that are all that terrific. Depending on how he measures out at the combine, Looney is maybe a late round draft pick, and what, HM all Pac-12? But I agree, as a group, its the biggest question mark for next season.

UrsaMajor
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TheSouseFamily said:

An interesting set of numbers:

Total Cal passing plays of 10+ yards: 112 (32nd in the country)

Total Cal passing plays of 20+ yards: 34 (62nd in the country)

Total Cal passing plays of 30+ yards: 9 (116th in the country)
The key to understanding these numbers is that they are a product of multiple factors. Bowers has a quick release, but cannot throw a consistent long ball. Our receivers cannot easily get separation because of a lack of speed. The OL has often struggled giving RB enough time for the long pass plays. It's all of the above.
heartofthebear
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Ironically I've seen him overthrow guys regularly on mid-deep routes along the sideline.
I think to say that 15 yards is his limit is a bit of an exaggeration.
I think he shouldn't be trying throws where he needs to lead a guy who will be close to 50 yards downfield when he catches it.

He can make many throws short of that, even some around 40.

BTW, the fact that Bowers doesn't have that kind of arm is not news.
Unfortunately Bowers has not gotten the news himself.
TheSouseFamily
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UrsaMajor said:

TheSouseFamily said:

An interesting set of numbers:

Total Cal passing plays of 10+ yards: 112 (32nd in the country)

Total Cal passing plays of 20+ yards: 34 (62nd in the country)

Total Cal passing plays of 30+ yards: 9 (116th in the country)
The key to understanding these numbers is that they are a product of multiple factors. Bowers has a quick release, but cannot throw a consistent long ball. Our receivers cannot easily get separation because of a lack of speed. The OL has often struggled giving RB enough time for the long pass plays. It's all of the above.


Yes, I agree It's all those things, plus the style/preferences of the new offensive staff, though I suspect BB has likely limited his play calling because of these factors.
82gradDLSdad
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Let's face it, Wilcox has done a great job but we are just getting up off the floor. We need upgrades in EVERY position to reach our next set of goals. That next step is either in the form of better (different) players or the same players making big strides next year. And of course this includes Bowers. He now has a big leg up in knowledge for next year's QB position. The question will be does he have the talent to fend off next year's QB teammates. Hell if I know that now.
pappysghost
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mbBear said:

tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Plenty of blame to go around...putting it all on Bowers is the easy way out. Why are they throwing deep in the first place? Laird is running well, and some shorter passes are working. Second, if you can show me a WR making a worse play on a ball than that, I will gladly watch. Granted that Hawkins is 5-8 and a true frosh, but that ball is knocked down by an average receiver.
I think that was a tough play for Hawkins. He seemed to slip trying to come back and that was it. I think Bowers, for a first year guy, is doing fine. He's improved over the course of the year. If he continues to improve, like the deep passes, we should be fine. Getting Robertson back will help a lot too.
calgo430
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bowers is a servicable qb. he does not make enough plays to be considered a good qb.
TeamBoomtho
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This has been Bowers' audition year. If we get the W next week at UCLA and have a decent showing in a bowl game, I'd give him a passing grade, but his status as a starter in 18 is far from secure. If next week is just another flavor of what we saw from him last night, that starter spot looks even more up for grabs next year. Which I think is fair on behalf of the coaching staff. Next year's QB depth is very compelling, loaded with potential and athleticism. Have faith young Bears.
Another Bear
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Bowers still looks like a skinny high schooler to me, so there's room for maturity and adding a few pounds. Will it make him better, not necessarily but it can't hurt and should help more than not. Can't predict the future but with a better OL and skill positions, plus some physical growth, I think Bowers will be fine if not a next level guy.

The biggest improvement however will come with the defense. If Wilcox and Coach D can dial up the defense and continue to create turn-overs, that would be huge and equate to many short field scores on take aways.

Bowers has to grow and improve (I expect both) but defense is Wilcox's forte and that's where we should see the leap forward. Despite injuries, the defense has been a revelation. Turns out if you put in effort and expect a 50% contribution on D (and offense) you improve more than the sum. Sonny never figured that one out.



TheSouseFamily
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triplebear said:

Bowers still looks like a skinny high schooler to me, so there's room for maturity and adding a few pounds. Will it make him better, not necessarily but it can't hurt and should help more than not. Can't predict the future but with a better OL and skill positions, plus some physical growth, I think Bowers will be fine if not a next level. .




Well, he's older than both Rosen and Darnold. It's not like he's physically like a frosh Goff.

Bowers was the best QB available to us this year and won the job. We'll have a few more options next year and he'll have to re-win the job against some tougher competition than last year. I have every confidence that between spring ball and fall camp, the coaches will put the best option of the field. Garbers, McIlwain and Bowers all bring something different to the table but I've got enough faith in the staff to pick the best option for next year. There's a long way to go before they have to make that decision.
tequila4kapp
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UrsaMajor said:

TheSouseFamily said:

An interesting set of numbers:

Total Cal passing plays of 10+ yards: 112 (32nd in the country)

Total Cal passing plays of 20+ yards: 34 (62nd in the country)

Total Cal passing plays of 30+ yards: 9 (116th in the country)
The key to understanding these numbers is that they are a product of multiple factors. Bowers has a quick release, but cannot throw a consistent long ball. Our receivers cannot easily get separation because of a lack of speed. The OL has often struggled giving RB enough time for the long pass plays. It's all of the above.
those things are all true. But I believe it's equally true that Bowers really struggles hitting receivers in stride and especially struggles hit receivers who are running parallel to the field of play. That means yardages disproportionately reflect the distance the ball travels in the air. So it's not just arm strength, it's the type of routes we have to run.
oursdor
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mbBear said:

tim94501 said:

So I like Robo a lot for his toughness and courage, i appreciate what he's done this year with a very depleted offense. I don't think we can be a successful football team next year if he's our quarterback. He's handcuffed Baldwin's ability to stretch the defense with his inability to throw any semblance of a decent deep ball. I've heard excuses about the lack of wr all year but the interception he threw tonight was 100% because he lacks talent. He will never be a player that can make that throw. That was a td with a c+ arm qb. If he starts next year we're going to waste the weapons we have because he can't put the ball where it needs to be. We also don't even know how good Baldwin is because he has 15 yards downfield to work with right now. Harsh reality of our qb situation.
Plenty of blame to go around...putting it all on Bowers is the easy way out. Why are they throwing deep in the first place? Laird is running well, and some shorter passes are working. Second, if you can show me a WR making a worse play on a ball than that, I will gladly watch. Granted that Hawkins is 5-8 and a true frosh, but that ball is knocked down by an average receiver.
No. rewatch the play (vid should start at 1:57 mark)



at a dead sprint he had to turn around from his right to his left (screencaps below), relocate the ball, basically stop and come back to it against double coverage. His plant leg came out from under him and he fell.









FloriDreaming
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While I never agreed with the "bench Bowers" crowd, I've fully believed, and still do, that Bowers should not start next season if Cal is serious about winning. He's just not a Pac 12 starting QB. Injuries, yadda yadda... and #11 offense. He's a poor QB on a bad offense that needs upgrades everywhere.
ibhoagiesforlife
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I was in the end zone behind the bears on the long bomb. When Bowers lauched it, the receiver has eyes on the ball and tried to stop his momentum and come back to it but slipped. The ball was a pop fly and hung long enough for anybody in the secondary to come and get it.

Watching the replay, Bowers just tried to do too much. There was a receiver underneath that was open and would've resulted in a first down.
ddc_Cal
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That pass reminded me of a Justin Vedder rainbow.
pappysghost
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Wow, nice post. Ross had two guys shorter going left to right that were easy throws. Hopefully he can shake that off.

Why the heck did we have like 5 guys so far off the los on that 4th down? That was the game. Tackling him after the first down is the same as giving up a TD. I almost think we were a bit fooled by the clock and didn't realize they could go V and run it out? Those kind of stragegic blunders drive me crazy. Fortunately we haven't had many this year. Wilcox could not have been happy with that configuration. I would like to hear him comment on that.

Does anyone know if you can leap the line on that play? I'm guessing you can't do a Lavar Arington into the backfield anymore?
travelingbears
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calgo430 said:

bowers is a servicable qb. he does not make enough plays to be considered a good qb.
If your opinion of "serviceable qb" means a mediocre one who can't play his part to win games, then I agree with you. Otherwise, I would disagree and will state for the umpteenth time that Bowers is not qualified to be an effective P5 QB.

I don't expect Bowers to single-handedly win games for us, but I believe he's a primary factor for why we have lost games. Every position plays a part/role to win games, and our QB spot is a glaring weakness. Sure, one can argue that our WRs are less than stellar, but I disagree with that. I think our non-injured WRs are serviceable (e.g., Kanawai is an absolute stud), but our QB makes very poor reads and doesn't go through his progressions, AND he's terribly inaccurate.

Again, love Bowers' heart and competitive drive, but he simply doesn't have the physical attributes to be effective. Love for Bowers to continue being part of the team, but have not wanted him leading us as the QB since the first few games this season.
BearlyCareAnymore
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ibhoagiesforlife said:

I was in the end zone behind the bears on the long bomb. When Bowers lauched it, the receiver has eyes on the ball and tried to stop his momentum and come back to it but slipped. The ball was a pop fly and hung long enough for anybody in the secondary to come and get it.

Watching the replay, Bowers just tried to do too much. There was a receiver underneath that was open and would've resulted in a first down.
I think the issue for Bowers on that play was the receiver had been wide open and he knew it, but Bowers hadn't got his feet set on the roll out in time. He made the cardinal sin of knowing it HAD been there and probably knowing it was too late but throwing it anyway.

My general opinion on Bowers is that I don't see that he is the problem any more than any one else. I think he is a 5-6 type QB on a 5-6 team. He has improved. If he continues to do so, he can be a good QB in this league. (and if he doesn't improve he won't be) Probably not a conference championship QB, but then none of the rest of the team is conference championship quality either.

It seems to me that if an OL or a LB plays his position at a Bowers level his first year of starting, we expect them to improve. If a QB does, that's it for him. I expect there to be a QB competition next year and Bowers could come out on top. That could be a bad or a good thing.

Also seems to me that some judge the QB by whether he can get us to a conference championship. Well, lets get some reality here. We aren't getting to that level for at least a couple years. Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have made this team compete for a conference championship.
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