BYU higher ranked than Cal?

6,370 Views | 39 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by calgo430
stivo
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Justifiable? Or evidence that the rankings are crap?
okaydo
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How many impressive wins had Cal had?
Looperbear
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Rankings crap. Cal wins AT BYU, BYU ranked higher, BYU wins AT Wisconsin, Wisconsin ranked higher.
Just stupid.
Econ141
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Transitive property has no place in college football rankings.
oursdor
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fat_slice said:

Transitive property has no place in college football rankings.
nor do preseason rankings or really anything pre week 5-ish
Looperbear
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fat_slice said:

Transitive property has no place in college football rankings.
That's not transitive, that's head to head. We won at BYU, and have better record, we should be ranked ahead of BYU.
okaydo
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BYU's 2-1 looks more impressive than our 3-0.

Keep in mind, they've played 3 Power 5 teams.

Their only loss is to an undefeated team by a few points.

How many other teams have played 3 Power 5 teams so far this season?
Bear_Territory
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BYU 25 in the AP, Cal is 30
Sebastabear
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It's definitely dumb, but then so are week 3 rankings. Good for BYU. A great win for them coming off a loss and on the road against a team like that.
ducky23
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When we go into camp Randall and beat Wisconsin then we will be deserved to be ranked.

Chill out guys. We will have several opportunities to prove we deserve to be ranked, starting w our game against Oregon.
wifeisafurd
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stivo said:

Justifiable? Or evidence that the rankings are crap?
too early to put any credence in rankings. Arguably BYU beat a poor UofA team, lost to a good Cal team at home, and beat a high ranked Wisky team on the road. Why such diverse results? Cal may be a worse match-up, BYU is not good at home (doubtful), Wisky is overrated and Cal underrated, or they just played over their heads at Whisky. Who really knows? Bottom line is over the season you get a much better picture of a team, and outlier results have less impact
TouchedTheAxeIn82
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This is where Wilner deserves some credit. Having rankings before the season starts is nonsensical, but it ain't going away. Voters should be willing to make drastic changes to their lists in the first few weeks as the actual data come in. Most still don't, especially in the coaches poll. Wilner is one of the AP voters willing to actually try to think logically about this, and this is his ranking this week:

18. Cal
19. BYU
20. Wisconsin
Shoreline
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Cal got 40 AP votes. The bigger travesty is Oregon being ranked for beating Bowling Green, Portland State and San Jose State. What a joke of a schedule.
bigcocoon007
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Well if we finish 13-0 and BYU 12-1, we will get the nod into the CFP..rankings are nothing to worry about...
Big C
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Bear_Territory said:

BYU 25 in the AP, Cal is 30
This is sort of a pet peeve of mine, so sorry in advance for coming across as pedantic...

The AP only ranks to 25.
OdontoBear66
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Shoreline said:

Cal got 40 AP votes. The bigger travesty is Oregon being ranked for beating Bowling Green, Portland State and San Jose State. What a joke of a schedule.
This expresses my pet peeve. Rankings should be on RPI wins/losses this year, not pre season perceptions added to previous year's power. Then let it go up and down as the weeks unfold.
aweissburg
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I think it's great they're ranked. Will make our guys hungry. If we beat Oregon, I'd bet we are not only ranked but ranked ahead of BYU.
PiLam 86, #not4years
packawana
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Maybe we really are the new Wisconsin, which means we get disrespected all the way to a Rose Bowl win.
510 Bear
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Well, you never know...BYU, Boise State, Iowa, Duke, and Colorado could all lose next week (or we jump them if they're not playing), putting us in the top 25.

Also, LOL at furd ranked #7.
heartofthebear
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Looperbear said:

fat_slice said:

Transitive property has no place in college football rankings.
That's not transitive, that's head to head. We won at BYU, and have better record, we should be ranked ahead of BYU.
The BYU ranking is based on their head to head vs. Wisconsin.
We have not beaten a ranked team head to head, although now, after the fact, BYU is ranked.
The fact that we beat BYU does not matter because BYU was not ranked at the time.

If the schedule was flipped and we had played BYU after BYU had beaten Wisconsin, then we would likely be ranked.

You are using the transitive property to imply that BYU, was, in effect, a ranked team, because they eventually beat Wisconsin, and so we were, in effect, beating Wisconsin when we beat BYU.

It just doesn't work that way.

The good news is that Cal may sneak into the rankings next week without playing a game.
Several teams ahead of Cal in the rankings play each other and the loser may drop below Cal. Also, both USC and UCLA received and grand total of 0 VOTES!!

Also good news:
  • Colorado's win over Nebraska is not so impressive now that the Huskers lost to Troy, meaning that the Buffs may be more beatable than previously thought. They play UCLA next and that could be telling if they lose.
  • UCLA is almost at the level of OSU when it comes to penciling in wins
  • Oregon did not seem to be that impressive at home
    vs. SJS
  • Cal might be able to get a win in LA this year


BTW, Washington and BYU play when Cal next plays against Oregon.
That is a great chance for Cal to make a serious move in the rankings.

Of course it will help if Cameron Goode is back but I am fearing that he has a broken foot and will miss 8 weeks.
Hopefully we will have him for the critical home stretch.

GivemTheAxe
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okaydo said:

How many impressive wins had Cal had?

Cal beat BYU away and is currently 3-0
GivemTheAxe
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Shoreline said:

Cal got 40 AP votes. The bigger travesty is Oregon being ranked for beating Bowling Green, Portland State and San Jose State. What a joke of a schedule.

Cal will have an opportunity to correct this ranking in 2 weeks. If Cal performs, great. If Cal doesn't then maybe UO is better than us.
Strykur
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We might float into the Top 25 after we beat Bye, but one thing to keep in mind at this moment:

We have more votes than Texas.

Also Oregon might be unranked coming into Berkeley if they get smacked by Furd this weekend.
golden sloth
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No need to get angry over Week 3 rankings, it is still based on speculation, and record starts replacing projection around Week 6 or so, thus everything will work itself out.
Looperbear
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heartofthebear said:

Looperbear said:

fat_slice said:

Transitive property has no place in college football rankings.
That's not transitive, that's head to head. We won at BYU, and have better record, we should be ranked ahead of BYU.
The BYU ranking is based on their head to head vs. Wisconsin.
We have not beaten a ranked team head to head, although now, after the fact, BYU is ranked.
The fact that we beat BYU does not matter because BYU was not ranked at the time.

If the schedule was flipped and we had played BYU after BYU had beaten Wisconsin, then we would likely be ranked.

You are using the transitive property to imply that BYU, was, in effect, a ranked team, because they eventually beat Wisconsin, and so we were, in effect, beating Wisconsin when we beat BYU.

It just doesn't work that way.

No, I'm not using the transitive property, you're misunderstanding the term.
BYU beat Wisconsin at Wisconsin. BYU should be ranked ahead of Wisconsin; they are not. That reasoning has nothing to do with the transitive property.
heartofthebear
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Looperbear said:

heartofthebear said:

Looperbear said:

fat_slice said:

Transitive property has no place in college football rankings.
That's not transitive, that's head to head. We won at BYU, and have better record, we should be ranked ahead of BYU.
The BYU ranking is based on their head to head vs. Wisconsin.
We have not beaten a ranked team head to head, although now, after the fact, BYU is ranked.
The fact that we beat BYU does not matter because BYU was not ranked at the time.

If the schedule was flipped and we had played BYU after BYU had beaten Wisconsin, then we would likely be ranked.

You are using the transitive property to imply that BYU, was, in effect, a ranked team, because they eventually beat Wisconsin, and so we were, in effect, beating Wisconsin when we beat BYU.

It just doesn't work that way.

No, I'm not using the transitive property, you're misunderstanding the term.
BYU beat Wisconsin at Wisconsin. BYU should be ranked ahead of Wisconsin; they are not. That reasoning has nothing to do with the transitive property.
I don't understand why BYU should be ranked ahead of Wisconsin because they beat them head to head.
The rankings are based on body of work and projected body of work based on talent and quality of program overall.
BYU lost to Cal, Wisconsin did not.
Cal beat BYU.
In each of these cases, it is one game in the team's schedule, not overall body of work.
You can't drop Wisconsin down out of the rankings after one loss when they have been a top team consistently the last few years.
You can't prop Cal up because of a few wins when they have consistently opened well only to end with a losing record.
BYU is the hardest to rank here because they have been all over the map both this year and the last few years.

You may not be using the transitive property, but, like the transitive property, you are concentrating on the single game results of 3 teams in relation to each other, rather than the body of work both this year and in recent years.

Rankings, like it or not, are the results of political opinions. They are only loosely based on this year's results.
But either way, Cal should not be ranked because there are more than 25 teams with a more impressive resume this year.
Beating North Carolina is not very impressive, particularly when at home and North Carolina had injury and suspension issues.
Beating BYU on the road was impressive but Cal showed that they are only a 3 quarter team, something they showed again against a lowly Idaho St. team from the FCS.
I would not be voting for Cal at this point, but I probably would not vote for BYU either

Just in case you are wondering, I agree that early season rankings are ridiculous because there is not enough information to base them on. Ultimately voters fall back on their biases based on past years, which isn't really fair but yet is quite understandable under the circumstances.

If Cal beats Oregon and remains unranked, that would be something to complain about.
OdontoBear66
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What I object to is poor rankings for teams that have consistently flopped as the year goes on. If so, then drop then the next week, or in two or three weeks, when they flop. Rank them based on their body of work to date.

What you suggest heart, is the way it works, but cream will float to the top and the weak will drop given time. Give them their day in the sun while deserved. What you did last year or for ten years should have little bearing this year in the rankings.

It will sort out quickly. Week three this year, Cal should be ranked higher than BYU.
joe amos yaks
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The Cougars beat uWhisky at Camp Randall. A very big impressive win. Deserving...move 'em up!
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
okaydo
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The case for BYU to be ranked ahead of Cal:

1. They scheduled 3 Power 5 teams to begin the season. I'm not sure there is another team that does that. That is crazy scheduling regardless of the teams they are playing. Heck, Notre Dame didn't do that. Is there any other non-Power 5 team that does that?

2. They beat 2 Power 5 teams on the road and barely lost to another one at home.

3. They beat the No. 6 team. Whether you believe Wisconsin is worthy of being No. 6, it's still a great accomplishment, especially on the road in front of 80,000 people.


The case for Cal to be ranked ahead of BYU?:

1. Cal is undefeated while BYU is not undefeated.

2. Cal beat 1 Power 5 team.

3. Cal destroyed Idaho State.

4. Cal beat BYU on the road and they beat Wisconsin on the road, so duh.

OdontoBear66
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joe amos yaks said:

The Cougars beat uWhisky at Camp Randall. A very big impressive win. Deserving...move 'em up!
Move 'em up for now, but one place below Cal at this time. Two weeks from now if Cal loses to Oregon at home, drop us like a rock. But for today.......
79 Bear
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Just win Bears.
TouchedTheAxeIn82
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As others have noted, Cal's current ranking is irrelevant. As long as Cal keeps a zero in the right column they control their own destiny.
march2397
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wifeisafurd said:

stivo said:

Justifiable? Or evidence that the rankings are crap?
too early to put any credence in rankings. Arguably BYU beat a poor UofA team, lost to a good Cal team at home, and beat a high ranked Wisky team on the road. Why such diverse results? Cal may be a worse match-up, BYU is not good at home (doubtful), Wisky is overrated and Cal underrated, or they just played over their heads at Whisky. Who really knows? Bottom line is over the season you get a much better picture of a team, and outlier results have less impact
Why do you insist on using logic?
oskidunker
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If Cal beats Oregon, people will sayOregon is not that good. If Cal wins the North then maybe we are told we are good. But The Fraud stands in our way
Go Bears!
burritos
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The amount of minutiae that Cal fans(and fans in general) lose sleep over is always very entertaining.
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