okaydo said:

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71Bear said:

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I think this discussion can be summed nicely by quoting Stewart Mandel, editor of The Athletic's college football page, in today's Mandel Mailbag (there were a couple questions relating to Bay Area college football topics - Kyler Murray turning down the A's and the Raiders playing at Memorial Stadium).

"I've always said the living in the Bay Area is not exactly the most conducive place from which to cover college football for a living".

Note: Mandel lives in the San Jose area.

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The settlement with the PHA (which is horrendous on Cal's part) specifically prohibits even a single NFL game through, I believe, 2025.

GMP said:

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okaydo said:

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71Bear said:

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I think this discussion can be summed nicely by quoting Stewart Mandel, editor of The Athletic's college football page, in today's Mandel Mailbag (there were a couple questions relating to Bay Area college football topics - Kyler Murray turning down the A's and the Raiders playing at Memorial Stadium).

"I've always said the living in the Bay Area is not exactly the most conducive place from which to cover college football for a living".

Note: Mandel lives in the San Jose area.

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The settlement with the PHA (which is horrendous on Cal's part) specifically prohibits even a single NFL game through, I believe, 2025.

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The PHA is just nuts.....
The Greek Theater was built in 1903.
Panoranic Hill was first developed in 1904.
The great majority of the homes on Panoramic Hill were built AFTER CMS was built in 1923.
The fact that the PHA can hold Cal hostage is unbelievable.
It's like buying a house next to the Rose Garden and petitioning to not have weddings held there.
F-ing nuts.
Same thing with the Alta Bates issue.... neighbors didn't want the ER moved to Ashby Ave or have a trauma center created.....but they now demand that the hospital gets retrofitted.
Crazy $#!t......
Just f-ing crazy $#!t

Isn't there a NCAA or Pac12 rule that the student section must be behind the home team? If so, you can't move them to the end zone and they can't be moved to the westside of CMS, unless they want to buy into the U Club?

I think the attitude of the administration sees football and basketball more favorably than in years past.. It must, since a lot of money is still owed for reconstruction of the stadium and maybe there's a realization that a winning formula in sports produces income for the university. I think the administration is more enlightened and less hostile to athletics.

Bear8 said:

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Isn't there a NCAA or Pac12 rule that the student section must be behind the home team? If so, you can't move them to the end zone and they can't be moved to the westside of CMS, unless they want to buy into the U Club?

I think the attitude of the administration sees football and basketball more favorably than in years past.. It must, since a lot of money is still owed for reconstruction of the stadium and maybe there's a realization that a winning formula in sports produces income for the university. I think the administration is more enlightened and less hostile to athletics.

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Some P12 schools have their student section behind the EZ or between the goal line and the 25 yard line. The only rule is that you can't have them behind the opposition's bench.

OaktownBear said:

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71Bear said:

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You made one big mistake.

You seriously underestimated the power of the Niners. They are THE crown jewel of Bay Area pro franchises. Once they get their s... together, they will suck all of the oxygen out of the sports air and that is that.

You need proof? Just think back to the 80's when they were the biggest story in the Bay Area (sports or otherwise).

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One big mistake? Some of the ideas are good but the idea that Cal is getting fans from 2 teams that move less than 20 miles especially when most people watch on television is fantasy. Number of fans Cal draws from Niners = 0. Number of Raider fans Cal draws = 0 (anyone leaving the Raiders goes to the Niners or another NFL team. Number of fans Cal gets from the Warriors moving to SF= negative 15 - 15 old blues from the East Bay now too tired to go to Cal game after BARTing across the Bay to the Warriors game. Seriously. Fans of the best basketball team in the universe, perhaps ever, perhaps the best sports team are going to slum it to Cal games because the Warriors moved across a bridge? What was it Blublood used to say? Something with a lot of Ha's and a bunch of exclamation points?

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Even Walnuts was saying "What?"

Did the font just change?

So let's ignore the changes in the professional sports landscape, there is no use debating it. It will remain to be seen if there is any opportunity there or not. Let's focus on the actions Cal should take in any case:
1. Marketing should be focused on the huge group of Cal alums in the Bay Area
2. Game day atmosphere should emphasize Cal traditions, create connection with the university and campus.
3. Local recruiting should be emphasized and marketed.
4. California's JC programs can be developed as a feeder for Cal.
5. Goff in LA is an marketing/recruiting opportunity.
6. A world leading Haas program in Sports Business can be academically rigorous and would be a benifit to the university, the athletic department and it sports teams, and our student athletes.

calumnus said:

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So let's ignore the changes in the professional sports landscape, there is no use debating it. It will remain to be seen if there is any opportunity there or not. Let's focus on the actions Cal should take in any case:
1. Marketing should be focused on the huge group of Cal alums in the Bay Area
2. Game day atmosphere should emphasize Cal traditions, create connection with the university and campus.
3. Local recruiting should be emphasized and marketed.
4. California's JC programs can be developed as a feeder for Cal.
5. Goff in LA is an marketing/recruiting opportunity.
6. A world leading Haas program in Sports Business can be academically rigorous and would be a benifit to the university, the athletic department and it sports teams, and our student athletes.

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For the most part, we agree (especially #2). The only concern I would have relates to #5. Basing a marketing plan on a active player is always dicey. If the guy struggles, things can go badly rather quickly.

calumnus said:

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So let's ignore the changes in the professional sports landscape, there is no use debating it. It will remain to be seen if there is any opportunity there or not. Let's focus on the actions Cal should take in any case:
1. Marketing should be focused on the huge group of Cal alums in the Bay Area
2. Game day atmosphere should emphasize Cal traditions, create connection with the university and campus.
3. Local recruiting should be emphasized and marketed.
4. California's JC programs can be developed as a feeder for Cal.
5. Goff in LA is an marketing/recruiting opportunity.
6. A world leading Haas program in Sports Business can be academically rigorous and would be a benifit to the university, the athletic department and it sports teams, and our student athletes.

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Calumnus for AD

Bears2thDoc said:

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GMP said:

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The settlement with the PHA (which is horrendous on Cal's part) specifically prohibits even a single NFL game through, I believe, 2025.

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The PHA is just nuts.....
The Greek Theater was built in 1903.
Panoranic Hill was first developed in 1904.
The great majority of the homes on Panoramic Hill were built AFTER CMS was built in 1923.
The fact that the PHA can hold Cal hostage is unbelievable.
It's like buying a house next to the Rose Garden and petitioning to not have weddings held there.
F-ing nuts.
Same thing with the Alta Bates issue.... neighbors didn't want the ER moved to Ashby Ave or have a trauma center created.....but they now demand that the hospital gets retrofitted.
Crazy $#!t......
Just f-ing crazy $#!t

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And "neighbors" are now suing Cal over building 4 sand volleyball courts on the Clark Kerr campus. Really. Can't make this stuff up. Berkeley has some of the most evil lowlife NIMBYs anywhere.

BearSD said:

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And "neighbors" are now suing Cal over building 4 sand volleyball courts on the Clark Kerr campus. Really. Can't make this stuff up. Berkeley has some of the most evil lowlife NIMBYs anywhere.

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<Walnuts
"Arf! Woof arfy woof woofity arrf farf."
translation: ("Sand?! No grass where
will I poop!?")

Get a cat.

Heaven.

Bears2thDoc said:

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71Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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71Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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71Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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IPutting aside our current debates over coaches and players...I see a bright future for Cal's revenue sports.

There is a major economic opportunity that has and will be created by:
1. The Niners move to Santa Clara and decline in relevance.
2. The Raiders move to Las Vegas.
3. The Warriors move to San Francisco.

This leaves a huge opportunity for Cal to grow it's ticket buying fan base as the football team for residents of SF, the East Bay and North Bay and the basketball team supported by the East Bay.

A key will be local recruiting. However, as more kids grow up as Cal fans, more will opt to play for the local team.

I think it is critical that the expansion of the fan base NOT be based on a generic pro sport style atmosphere. It has to be about emphasizing Cal traditions. Our songs, colors, mascot, band and traditions....all contribute to feelings of connection with the team and our school. The initial target for growth is the huge alumni base anyway. This will be sold to the academics as building a loyal donor base.
If local stars play for Cal, that will draw in more and more casual fans.

We need to develop the local AAU program, especially the Soldiers, as a pipeline for basketball, and all of the California JCs, but especially CCSF and Laney, as a pipeline for both sports as long as the California JCs can maintain their athletic programs.

Stanford, has not been a major force in recruiting locally for decades, has a small alumni base, shrunk their stadium and now has the Niners in their backyard. Meanwhile, USC and UCLA have to deal with an emerging LA Ram dynasty. Plus the Chargers (and the Raiders in relatively nearby Vegas). And that Ram team sports our colors and has a QB from Cal. Thus creating a great opening for the state's flagship university to recruit in the southern portion of the state.

We also should develop the world's best sports management, finance and marketing program at the Haas School of Business. Sports is a huge multi-billion dollar industry worldwide and there is no formal training for the many lucrative jobs. interns could work on projects in the AD, including marketing and fundraising campaigns, improving the ticket office or work in the nearby PAC-12 offices....This program would be a major draw for student athletes, both as undergrads and as grad transfers, and admissions preference could be given to current/former D1 athletes. We might attract highly regarded coaches who might enjoy teaching or taking classes.

I believe all of the above could make Cal a powerhouse in both the revenue and non-revenue sports.

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You made one big mistake.

You seriously underestimated the power of the Niners. They are THE crown jewel of Bay Area pro franchises. Once they get their s... together, they will suck all of the oxygen out of the sports air and that is that.

You need proof? Just think back to the 80's when they were the biggest story in the Bay Area (sports or otherwise).

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I do not underestimate the dedication of die hards like yourself who buy BOTH Cal and NFL tickets. Clearly the bigger opportunity is Cal as the East Bay team with the Raiders/Warriors moving.

The Walsh/Montana Niners were dominant in the 80s. They have won 1 NFC championship in the last 24 years. The ownership is not the same. Uniforms don't win games. However my main point is that even if they do return to prominence, the direct competition with Cal for ticket buying fans will be less than before due to their location in Santa Clara. Most of the new ticket buying fans will be drawn from Silicon Valley and the large and prosperous population of the South Bay. That is the primary reason the Niners moved to the South Bay in the first place. I don't think the possibility of a Niner improvement diminishes the opportunity for Cal to grow it's ticket buying fanbase in SF, Alameda, Contra Costa and the North Bay counties presented by the Niners move from the San Francisco MSA to the San Jose MSA.

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Just for the record, I buy tickets to neither Cal games nor Niner games. However, I watch both teams play on television.

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Oh, that is surprising to me. Did you use to go to either or both?

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Yep. I had Cal season tix 35+ years and gave them up after Barbour ruined the game day experience. I also attended a number of SF games each year.

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That's it in a f-ing nutshell......
The vast majority of attending fans hates the piped in music.......
Cal doesn't care.
The vast majority of fans wants to hear more Cal Band.....
Cal doesn't care.
The vast majority of fans on the east side would like to have drinking fountains and not garden hoses( yeah they would...if you asked them).....
Cal doesn't care.
The vast majority of fans on the east side would like REAL bathrooms......
Cal doesn't care.
The vast majority of fans would like to know how they can plan their game day more than 7 days in advance.
Cal doesn't care.
Bottom line....
There are ways to make the fan experience better, even in less than optimistic performance years.
Cal doesn't care.
All the BS regarding Fan Experience questionnaires is just an illusion so fans THINK Cal cares.
If one wants a real bathroom....Cal says 'Pay more money"
If one wants safe drinking water....Cal says "Pay more money'
Not too long ago....If one wanted to listen to the game on the radio..... Cal said, "Pay more money."
A few decades ago, there were bathrooms on the east side..... they got turned into a Club House.
Not too long ago, there were no bathrooms, let alone no showers on the east side.... well guess what, magically bathrooms and showers appeared.....then just as magically, they were removed.
Cal doesn't care about fans showing up....they only care that fans buy tickets.
Name one...just one... other D1 Football stadium in the USA where 50% of the fans have to drink water from a garden hose. Hell.....just name another college stadium that makes one do that.

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Some of what you post is accurate, some not so much.
As for piped in music, while most fans I know prefer the band, it turns out that it isn't "a vast majority," at least according to surveys (which you may not like but are probably more accurate than you talking with your friends).

There is no question that the garden hoses are an abomination. As for real bathrooms, they would be preferred, but would cost a very large sum because of the plumbing infrastructure, buildings, etc. Who's gonna pay?

As for the timing of schedule. Cal does care, but unless you want to withdraw from the Pac-12, CAL HAS NO CONTROL OVER THAT.

calumnus said:

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Putting aside our current debates over coaches and players...I see a bright future for Cal's revenue sports.

There is a major economic opportunity that has and will be created by:
1. The Niners move to Santa Clara and decline in relevance.
2. The Raiders move to Las Vegas.
3. The Warriors move to San Francisco.

This leaves a huge opportunity for Cal to grow it's ticket buying fan base as the football team for residents of SF, the East Bay and North Bay and the basketball team supported by the East Bay.

A key will be local recruiting. However, as more kids grow up as Cal fans, more will opt to play for the local team.

I think it is critical that the expansion of the fan base NOT be based on a generic pro sport style atmosphere. It has to be about emphasizing Cal traditions. Our songs, colors, mascot, band and traditions....all contribute to feelings of connection with the team and our school. The initial target for growth is the huge alumni base anyway. This will be sold to the academics as building a loyal donor base.
If local stars play for Cal, that will draw in more and more casual fans.

We need to develop the local AAU program, especially the Soldiers, as a pipeline for basketball, and all of the California JCs, but especially CCSF and Laney, as a pipeline for both sports as long as the California JCs can maintain their athletic programs.

Stanford, has not been a major force in recruiting locally for decades, has a small alumni base, shrunk their stadium and now has the Niners in their backyard. Meanwhile, USC and UCLA have to deal with an emerging LA Ram dynasty. Plus the Chargers (and the Raiders in relatively nearby Vegas). And that Ram team sports our colors and has a QB from Cal. Thus creating a great opening for the state's flagship university to recruit in the southern portion of the state.

We also should develop the world's best sports management, finance and marketing program at the Haas School of Business. Sports is a huge multi-billion dollar industry worldwide and there is no formal training for the many lucrative jobs. interns could work on projects in the AD, including marketing and fundraising campaigns, improving the ticket office or work in the nearby PAC-12 offices....This program would be a major draw for student athletes, both as undergrads and as grad transfers, and admissions preference could be given to current/former D1 athletes. We might attract highly regarded coaches who might enjoy teaching or taking classes.

I believe all of the above could make Cal a powerhouse in both the revenue and non-revenue sports.

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You make some good points
The key for Cal is to become relevant in the PAC-12 FB and BB championship race. (We must start by once again beating Stanfurd regularly.)

And much better marketing to fans and not-yet-fans
Expand upon Laird's idea of reaching out to school kids. And don't limit it to just one game. And more college (I.e. not Pro) fan friendly concepts. Many of which have already been mentioned on this Board

Finally Cal should show some love to the long term (long suffering) season ticket holders.

I agree with much of what has been said in this thread. The most important thing is to focus on Cal at the games, not a pro sports "game day experience." l gave up my season tickets three years ago after 26 years, in large part because the things I loved about going to CMS, the band, the Cal songs, the feeling of being a part of Cal again, were attenuated. Also, I got old, which limits the night games, but that's unavoidable. Cal will never be able to compete with the pros for Joe Sixpack's money or time, so marketing should be focused on alumni and youth and emphasize Cal, even if that means forgoing some commercial revenue in the short run. I also notice a complete absence of references to the real crown jewel Bay Area sports franchise, the Giants. They routinely put about 35,000 people in the stands for home games, which aren't cheap tickets. One reason they can do it is easy stadium access, which CMS will never have. So Cal has to work harder to attract paying customers to CMS and out of their living rooms or dens, or wherever their big screen TV is.