This episode fits the narrative that Cal is hostile to conservative or politically incorrect thought and is not an open marketplace of ideas. It hurts the university we all care for so much. It is amazing that there are still people, among them posters on this board, who deny this reality. One of the reasons there is such optimism for Chancellor Christ is the sense that she will resist the idealogical bullies of the left, in contrast to the feckless Dirks administration.
OT: Another Black Eye for Cal. Student Conservative Attacked
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172 Replies |
Last: 5 yr ago by bearister
tequila4kapp said:This is ridiculously simplistic. It isn't just that one college student hit another, it's why. Like if a KKK person was on campus and assaulted an African American it wouldn't just be a story of assault. Duh.CRBear said:
I just hope the survivor can find the courage to come back to campus. Maybe with years of therapy and a large cash settlement from the university he'll be able to put his life back together. Is there a gofundme link I can contribute to? If not, I'll just send thoughts and prayers.
College guy punches other college guy. That requires national news coverage because we want to go back to when America was great and everyone wasn't such a snowflake. We need around the clock team coverage. When America was great they would find the aggressor and suspend him. It might make the local police blotter at most.
Oh won't someone please think of the children!?!
His sign said "This is MAGA country" and another one obviously about the Smollett incident. He wasn't trying to start a dialogue. He was trying to be a provocateur. A guy sits at a table with signs designed to piss people off and guess what? He pissed someone off! The guy shouldn't have hit him but if you poke the bear sometimes you get slapped.
Find the guy and see if there's more to the story. If there isn't, suspend him and move on. Just stop crying that some Milo wannabe got exactly what he wanted but with a little more force than he hoped for.
CRBear said:tequila4kapp said:This is ridiculously simplistic. It isn't just that one college student hit another, it's why. Like if a KKK person was on campus and assaulted an African American it wouldn't just be a story of assault. Duh.CRBear said:
I just hope the survivor can find the courage to come back to campus. Maybe with years of therapy and a large cash settlement from the university he'll be able to put his life back together. Is there a gofundme link I can contribute to? If not, I'll just send thoughts and prayers.
College guy punches other college guy. That requires national news coverage because we want to go back to when America was great and everyone wasn't such a snowflake. We need around the clock team coverage. When America was great they would find the aggressor and suspend him. It might make the local police blotter at most.
Oh won't someone please think of the children!?!
His sign said "This is MAGA country" and another one obviously about the Smollett incident. He wasn't trying to start a dialogue. He was trying to be a provocateur. A guy sits at a table with signs designed to piss people off and guess what? He pissed someone off! The guy shouldn't have hit him but if you poke the bear sometimes you get slapped.
Find the guy and see if there's more to the story. If there isn't, suspend him and move on. Just stop crying that some Milo wannabe got exactly what he wanted but with a little more force than he hoped for.
Just curious where it becomes ok for me to punch you.
Seriously. If violence is an "oh well" answer for you, you must be open to getting beaten for your view at some point, yeah?
Honestly, I probably can't punch very hard anymore, and haven't been in a physical fight for like 10 years, so it would be more of a closed hand swat, but still. It might sting a little.
LunchTime said:CRBear said:tequila4kapp said:This is ridiculously simplistic. It isn't just that one college student hit another, it's why. Like if a KKK person was on campus and assaulted an African American it wouldn't just be a story of assault. Duh.CRBear said:
I just hope the survivor can find the courage to come back to campus. Maybe with years of therapy and a large cash settlement from the university he'll be able to put his life back together. Is there a gofundme link I can contribute to? If not, I'll just send thoughts and prayers.
College guy punches other college guy. That requires national news coverage because we want to go back to when America was great and everyone wasn't such a snowflake. We need around the clock team coverage. When America was great they would find the aggressor and suspend him. It might make the local police blotter at most.
Oh won't someone please think of the children!?!
His sign said "This is MAGA country" and another one obviously about the Smollett incident. He wasn't trying to start a dialogue. He was trying to be a provocateur. A guy sits at a table with signs designed to piss people off and guess what? He pissed someone off! The guy shouldn't have hit him but if you poke the bear sometimes you get slapped.
Find the guy and see if there's more to the story. If there isn't, suspend him and move on. Just stop crying that some Milo wannabe got exactly what he wanted but with a little more force than he hoped for.
Just curious where it becomes ok for me to punch you.
Seriously. If violence is an "oh well" answer for you, you must be open to getting beaten for your view at some point, yeah?
Honestly, I probably can't punch very hard anymore, and haven't been in a physical fight for like 10 years, so it would be more of a closed hand swat, but still. It might sting a little.
I said he shouldn't have hit him. I said he should be punished. But I'm sure your little speech sounded great in your head so congrats.
If you do hit me, I won't expect it to be a national story.
santacruzbear said:
This episode fits the narrative that Cal is hostile to conservative or politically incorrect thought and is not an open marketplace of ideas. It hurts the university we all care for so much. It is amazing that there are still people, among them posters on this board, who deny this reality. One of the reasons there is such optimism for Chancellor Christ is the sense that she will resist the idealogical bullies of the left, in contrast to the feckless Dirks administration.
How exactly is the University responsible for this incident?
Guy getting punched has a shirt on saying "Socialism Sucks" it looks like.Fyght4Cal said:
The puncher called the punchee a "racist mother****er". I wonder what that was about. Also, the punchee's shirt resembled a Bernie tee.
santacruzbear said:
This episode fits the narrative that Cal is hostile to conservative or politically incorrect thought and is not an open marketplace of ideas. It hurts the university we all care for so much. It is amazing that there are still people, among them posters on this board, who deny this reality. One of the reasons there is such optimism for Chancellor Christ is the sense that she will resist the idealogical bullies of the left, in contrast to the feckless Dirks administration.
you guys are hilarious! cal has plenty of conservative thinkers, including infamous ones, like john yoo...
i'm dating myself a bit here, but when i was a student 20 years ago, i took a class on classical liberalism as an undergrad...the class was very interesting and taught me a lot about political philosophy...it was taught by a professor who was highly knowledgeable and seemed to be a conservative...oh, and btw for those who don't know, what passes for "conservatism" now is really classical liberalism...(modern republicanism, on the other hand is more trumpism than liberalism or conservatism...or maybe it's more akin to classical conservatism, since mr. trump seems bent on establishing an authoritarian form of government with himself as a tyrant...)
also, when i was a student, the largest student organization on campus was the college young republicans (or something along those lines)...
conservatism has always been welcome at cal...or at least it was 20 years ago...
of course, some might argue that cal's changed a lot in these past 20 years...but the thread with patrick laird's comments on campus free speech issues (or lack thereof) suggests otherwise...
These guys are never going to socialize with each other.71Bear said:
A couple of kids get into a disagreement and it makes the "news". Yikes. I'm thankful social media didn't exist during my days at Berkeley. Heck, someday these guys will get together over a beer and laugh about all the stupid things they did in their college days. It isn't about politics. It's about growing up......
You got that mixed up. Being a Trump supporter means you are an idiot. Might be a racist too, but an idiot for sure.bearlyamazing said:
Cause he called the puncher (a white guy) the N word?
All it takes to be called a racist is being a Trump supporter.
But you also blamed the guy for poking the bear, which implies that someone exercising free speech should self-censor on the off chance that a violent reaction is somehow to be expected. Do you blame rape victims for wearing shorts skirts? What about the black protesters brutalized on Bloody Sunday in Selma? They poked the bear too.CRBear said:LunchTime said:CRBear said:tequila4kapp said:This is ridiculously simplistic. It isn't just that one college student hit another, it's why. Like if a KKK person was on campus and assaulted an African American it wouldn't just be a story of assault. Duh.CRBear said:
I just hope the survivor can find the courage to come back to campus. Maybe with years of therapy and a large cash settlement from the university he'll be able to put his life back together. Is there a gofundme link I can contribute to? If not, I'll just send thoughts and prayers.
College guy punches other college guy. That requires national news coverage because we want to go back to when America was great and everyone wasn't such a snowflake. We need around the clock team coverage. When America was great they would find the aggressor and suspend him. It might make the local police blotter at most.
Oh won't someone please think of the children!?!
His sign said "This is MAGA country" and another one obviously about the Smollett incident. He wasn't trying to start a dialogue. He was trying to be a provocateur. A guy sits at a table with signs designed to piss people off and guess what? He pissed someone off! The guy shouldn't have hit him but if you poke the bear sometimes you get slapped.
Find the guy and see if there's more to the story. If there isn't, suspend him and move on. Just stop crying that some Milo wannabe got exactly what he wanted but with a little more force than he hoped for.
Just curious where it becomes ok for me to punch you.
Seriously. If violence is an "oh well" answer for you, you must be open to getting beaten for your view at some point, yeah?
Honestly, I probably can't punch very hard anymore, and haven't been in a physical fight for like 10 years, so it would be more of a closed hand swat, but still. It might sting a little.
I said he shouldn't have hit him. I said he should be punished. But I'm sure your little speech sounded great in your head so congrats.
If you do hit me, I won't expect it to be a national story.
Whether you admit it or not, you're much more tolerant/dismissive of the incident because you disagree with his MAGA message.
A political editor selects stories and direct news coverage - they don't write stories. It seems to me having a different (conservative) point of view at a place like CNN is appropriate - certainly not unusual. If CNN wants to cover the republican side of 2020, it probably makes sense to have someone on staff who understands that side.okaydo said:
The "liberal media" gave more coverage to the "liberal embarrassing" Jussie Smollett story than to the "conservative embarrassing" Coast Guard story. Even though the Coast Guard was planning to kill prominent Democratic leaders.
Even CNN was more interested in the Jussie than the Coast Guard story.
Oh, and CNN just hired a recent Trump administration official and GOP operative, with no journalism experience, to serve as a political editor, overseeing 2020 campaign coverage ... of Trump. (This is different than hiring a former Trump official as a pundit. This is highly unusual.)
If you're upset about this, then you must be really upset about
Stepanopuoulos, a leading adviser to both clintons and a highly partisan dem, heading the ENTIRE news department at ABC, including moderating presidential debates.
Or Jim Sciutto worked in the Obama administration and then became a "reporter" for CNN covering Trump.
Jeff Greenfield was a speechwriter for Bobby Kennedy
David Shipley (political editor at bloomberg) left a position as special assistant to President Clinton to join The New York Times as an Op Ed Editor.
Tim Russert was an aide to Pat Moynihan and Mario Cuomo
Pierre Salinger was a White House press secretary for both JFK and LBJ before becoming an ABC News correspondent.
Jake Tapper, once served as press secretary to former Dem Rep. Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky
Chris Cuomo is an lead anchor at CNN. Remind me, who are his father and brother?
All of these people are/were "reporters" or editors, not pundits. Amazing that the left can't tolerate having one editor/reporter they disagree with.
CRBear said:tequila4kapp said:This is ridiculously simplistic. It isn't just that one college student hit another, it's why. Like if a KKK person was on campus and assaulted an African American it wouldn't just be a story of assault. Duh.CRBear said:
I just hope the survivor can find the courage to come back to campus. Maybe with years of therapy and a large cash settlement from the university he'll be able to put his life back together. Is there a gofundme link I can contribute to? If not, I'll just send thoughts and prayers.
College guy punches other college guy. That requires national news coverage because we want to go back to when America was great and everyone wasn't such a snowflake. We need around the clock team coverage. When America was great they would find the aggressor and suspend him. It might make the local police blotter at most.
Oh won't someone please think of the children!?!
His sign said "This is MAGA country" and another one obviously about the Smollett incident. He wasn't trying to start a dialogue. He was trying to be a provocateur. A guy sits at a table with signs designed to piss people off and guess what? He pissed someone off! The guy shouldn't have hit him but if you poke the bear sometimes you get slapped.
Find the guy and see if there's more to the story. If there isn't, suspend him and move on. Just stop crying that some Milo wannabe got exactly what he wanted but with a little more force than he hoped for.
You realize you sound like someone suggesting a person deserved to be raped because of their attire.
BearGoggles said:A political editor selects stories and direct news coverage - they don't write stories. It seems to me having a different (conservative) point of view at a place like CNN is appropriate - certainly not unusual. If CNN wants to cover the republican side of 2020, it probably makes sense to have someone on staff who understands that side.okaydo said:
The "liberal media" gave more coverage to the "liberal embarrassing" Jussie Smollett story than to the "conservative embarrassing" Coast Guard story. Even though the Coast Guard was planning to kill prominent Democratic leaders.
Even CNN was more interested in the Jussie than the Coast Guard story.
Oh, and CNN just hired a recent Trump administration official and GOP operative, with no journalism experience, to serve as a political editor, overseeing 2020 campaign coverage ... of Trump. (This is different than hiring a former Trump official as a pundit. This is highly unusual.)
If you're upset about this, then you must be really upset about
Stepanopuoulos, a leading adviser to both clintons and a highly partisan dem, heading the ENTIRE news department at ABC, including moderating presidential debates.
Or Jim Sciutto worked in the Obama administration and then became a "reporter" for CNN covering Trump.
Jeff Greenfield was a speechwriter for Bobby Kennedy
David Shipley (political editor at bloomberg) left a position as special assistant to President Clinton to join The New York Times as an Op Ed Editor.
Tim Russert was an aide to Pat Moynihan and Mario Cuomo
Pierre Salinger was a White House press secretary for both JFK and LBJ before becoming an ABC News correspondent.
Jake Tapper, once served as press secretary to former Dem Rep. Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky
Chris Cuomo is an lead anchor at CNN. Remind me, who are his father and brother?
All of these people are/were "reporters" or editors, not pundits. Amazing that the left can't tolerate having one editor/reporter they disagree with.
A political editor is a behind-the-scenes gatekeeper. Their work isn't transparent.
Sarah Isgur has worked as a GOP operative her entire career who recently worked for the Trump administration and who will help decide how CNN covers Trump, the very guy she pledged loyalty, too. She also has zero journalism experience. Do you not understand the difference?
George Stephanpoulous didn't oversee coverage of the Clinton administration or Bill Clinton's campaign. He started out as a political analyst and had to work his way up over *years* to be put in the position where he could be influential and trustworthy to ABC News executives and to its audience.
Jim Schiutto didn't oversee coverage of the Obama presidential campaign.
All those people are irrelevant. They didn't go from politics to managers/gatekeepers overnight.
It's not unusual for people to go from the political world to the journalism world.
It is, however, unusual to oversee coverage and serve as a gatekeeper to coverage of an administration that you ***recently*** worked in, to a boss you ***recently*** pledged loyalty to, without any prior journalism experience.
It's fine if she's a CNN reporter, analyst, expert, pundit -- all of which are clear and transparent roles.
But she'll help decide what CNN reports about Trump and his rivals over the next two years without scrutiny.
NVBear78 said:CRBear said:tequila4kapp said:This is ridiculously simplistic. It isn't just that one college student hit another, it's why. Like if a KKK person was on campus and assaulted an African American it wouldn't just be a story of assault. Duh.CRBear said:
I just hope the survivor can find the courage to come back to campus. Maybe with years of therapy and a large cash settlement from the university he'll be able to put his life back together. Is there a gofundme link I can contribute to? If not, I'll just send thoughts and prayers.
College guy punches other college guy. That requires national news coverage because we want to go back to when America was great and everyone wasn't such a snowflake. We need around the clock team coverage. When America was great they would find the aggressor and suspend him. It might make the local police blotter at most.
Oh won't someone please think of the children!?!
His sign said "This is MAGA country" and another one obviously about the Smollett incident. He wasn't trying to start a dialogue. He was trying to be a provocateur. A guy sits at a table with signs designed to piss people off and guess what? He pissed someone off! The guy shouldn't have hit him but if you poke the bear sometimes you get slapped.
Find the guy and see if there's more to the story. If there isn't, suspend him and move on. Just stop crying that some Milo wannabe got exactly what he wanted but with a little more force than he hoped for.
You realize you sound like someone suggesting a person deserved to be raped because of their attire.
You realize you sound like someone who just equated this incident with rape. This guy has more in common with a guy who wears a Furd shirt in the student section when Big Game is in Berkeley than a protestor in Selma. If you guys don't get that, then I don't know what else to tell you.
And to the posters who think I'm more dismissive of this because he was outwardly pro-Trump, you're not entirely wrong. The guy was exercising his free speech in order to provoke people. One individual took it too far and punched him. That was wrong and he should be punished. To me, that's the end of the story. If the rest of you want to hate CNN or the Washington Post for not covering it, have at it.
Here's hoping that CRBear wasn't the fan who threw the full soda that hit my wife in the young alumni section at the Cal UCLA game a few years ago. She was wearing a Bruins jersey that she got as an undergrad. Because of that, she will never go to a game at memorial again.
Anyway, this incident does not necessarily indicate that Berkeley is hostile to free speech. CRBear is, however.
Anyway, this incident does not necessarily indicate that Berkeley is hostile to free speech. CRBear is, however.
oski003 said:
Here's hoping that CRBear wasn't the fan who threw the full soda that hit my wife in the young alumni section at the Cal UCLA game a few years ago. She was wearing a Bruins jersey that she got as an undergrad. Because of that, she will never go to a game at memorial again.
Anyway, this incident does not necessarily indicate that Berkeley is hostile to free speech. CRBear is, however.
OMG. I'm not hostile to free speech but apparently you're hostile to reading comprehension. I just think that a guy acting like a jerk being punched by an even bigger jerk is not national news. You guys are all bent out of shape about it and I'm not. I think the kid who punched him needs to be punished and the kid who got punched is going to be just fine.
No matter if you lean left, lean right, or don't lean at all, it's a bad look for the University, and will not have any sort of positive impact on the school. From an athletic standpoint, it won't help us land one single recruit, and could very well make others who consider Cal look away.
That's a losing result.
That's a losing result.
See there are two issues going on here. One is extremely boring. One is extremely tedious.santacruzbear said:
1. Boring one. Turns out, in a campus with almost 40,000 students and I have no idea how many other professors, administrators, workers, members of the public walking around it, there was an idiot among them. Who knew? When my kids were toddlers and they'd get in a fight, occasionally it would devolve into them both just trying to scream louder than the other. I told them screaming louder didn't make them right or get them their way and if that was how they wanted to settle things I could easily scream louder so I'd always be right and ask them if they thought that was fair. Well, punching is the dumb adult, usually male version of that. I don't like bullies. At least in this instance this guy was acting like a bully. I have no use for him. The campus should do whatever they would normally do to someone committing this kind of act. And sorry, I'm falling asleep writing this because not being involved in the incident it is hard to care. It could have been one guy liked Freud and the other Jung. It could have been one felt Miller Lite tastes great, the other thought it was less filling. I really don't care other than the guy who turned violent should be and I'm sure will be dealt with appropriately. Point being, this happens all over the place every day. It ain't a news story.
2. Tedious one. C'mon man. It has been clear that some conservative media outlets have decided that going after universities generally and Cal specifically is a way to drive clicks and excite their base. I mean, Milo at least had some interesting issues about a school's duty to protect a speaker and provide equal access. A random guy walking across campus punching another guy because he doesn't like his political signs? Please. This isn't a story and it doesn't give Cal a black eye with anyone who matters. If you want to help conservative outlets use Cal as a whipping boy, be my guest. All they are doing is the media version of what the guy in the video did. See a school whose political bent they don't like and use the power they have to take a poke at it. So now we lefties have to go through the exercise of stating the obvious that violence is wrong, blah...blah...blah. Except the real issue if you aren't one of these two guys is the pattern of news organizations on both sides smearing the other side with dumb isolated incidents like this, which just breeds a climate of more incidents like this.
As it relates to Cal's reputation, you basically have 3 groups. 1. Dumb liberals that will defend the liberal side whatever and who don't care about this because it wasn't their side getting punched. 2. Dumb conservatives who think this shows Cal is the liberal antichrist and won't go there and will wag their fingers at Cal whenever they hear the name and forget them the second Cal is not in a headline - in other words their position is exactly the same as it was before. 3. Everyone else who can see this story amounts to nothing.
Cal wants to attract thoughtful students. If some unthinking conservatives want to avoid the place based on something like this, I don't think they put enough thought in to be qualified, so I'm not sorry their spot will go elsewhere. I hope it doesn't go to an unthinking liberal who sees this as a reason to go to Berkeley. I wish I could weed them out too. Oh, well, I can't have everything.
By the way, does everyone realize that the guy who got punched isn't a student at Cal? Hayden WIlliams is a conversative activist who was there helping table and recruit for the group Turning Point. Just in there interests of setting the facts about the situation straight.
And as the puncher hasn't been ID'd, not sure if they're a student either.
And as the puncher hasn't been ID'd, not sure if they're a student either.
OMG, you're hypocrisy knows no bounds. You're right that this isn't the end of the world. But the liberal dude that hit the conservative dude was a lot more in the wrong than you're stating, and I'm quite certain that you (along with much of the media) would be a lot more up in arms if the roles were reversed. Both of the guys in that video are idiots, much like you.
Beardog26 said:
OMG, you're hypocrisy knows no bounds. You're right that this isn't the end of the world. But the liberal dude that hit the conservative dude was a lot more in the wrong than you're stating, and I'm quite certain that you (along with much of the media) would be a lot more up in arms if the roles were reversed. Both of the guys in that video are idiots, much like you.
I'm quite certain that you have no idea what you're talking about. I have never been up in arms about violence on the part of the right against the left either. Just haven't done it. I actually think that most of the left wing rhetoric is misguided at best, idiotic at worst. My Cal experience, more years ago than I care to admit, made me far more conservative than I was when I got there.
You made a ton of assumptions about me and what would or wouldn't outrage me based on the fact that I don't think this incident is particularly interesting or newsworthy.
The puncher certainly appears to be in the wrong. If there isn't more to the incident than what was in the video, then he's the only one deserving of punishment.
I'm not going to respond in kind to you calling me an idiot. I'm not on this board to pick fights. I respect you even if you don't respect me. Just don't think you know a damn thing about what I think based on the fact that I think one ****** was punched by an even bigger ******. You don't have a clue.
I just wanted to highlight this portion of an excellent post. Indeed, all this does is further an anti-Cal narrative within right-wing media, and in this case it has to do with something the school administration is definitely NOT responsible for. How is any of this supposed to help?OaktownBear said:
If you want to help conservative outlets use Cal as a whipping boy, be my guest.
I had not picked up on that yet, so thanks for pointing it out.StillNoStanfurdium said:
By the way, does everyone realize that the guy who got punched isn't a student at Cal? Hayden WIlliams is a conversative activist who was there helping table and recruit for the group Turning Point. Just in there interests of setting the facts about the situation straight.
It is extremely encouraging to know that the Internet and social media has propelled us to this magnificent point in our evolution as a species.
StillNoStanfurdium said:
By the way, does everyone realize that the guy who got punched isn't a student at Cal? Hayden WIlliams is a conversative activist who was there helping table and recruit for the group Turning Point. Just in there interests of setting the facts about the situation straight.
And as the puncher hasn't been ID'd, not sure if they're a student either.
Okay so both the puncher and punchee (Mr. Williams) are NOT students at Cal. My guess then is the puncher knew or had met Mr. Williams before in a similar or political situation...and he was settling something. The puncher did call Williams a racist mother****er, which suggests he knew him from before. If Mr. Williams in fact used a racial slur, then that's fighting words (look it up) and the punch might not have happened without the slur.StillNoStanfurdium said:
By the way, does everyone realize that the guy who got punched isn't a student at Cal? Hayden WIlliams is a conversative activist who was there helping table and recruit for the group Turning Point. Just in there interests of setting the facts about the situation straight.
And as the puncher hasn't been ID'd, not sure if they're a student either.
As others have said...reserve judgment until all the facts are in.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
The puncher should be punished.
This does not make Cal look good (even if the campus administration is not to blame).
Does anyone remember any crazy liberals getting punched on campus?
Sproul Plaza was ( I assume still is) full of people spouting out ideas that are far from middle of the road or mainstream, often in a confrontational manner.
Part of being a part on a college campus is learning to respect alternative points of view.
Shame on the guy who decided that punching was the way to get his point across. if he is a student, I would think he might be expelled. The context of the punch makes this worse for him (in my mind) than if this was a bar fight or over a woman (or the last piece of pizza or whatever). This shows a lack of open respect to ideas - which is something the University has to protect since the free flow of ideas is central to the mission of the University.
EDIT:
Looks like the University's response is consistent with my points and that neither puncher nor puchee are students (good).
This does not make Cal look good (even if the campus administration is not to blame).
Does anyone remember any crazy liberals getting punched on campus?
Sproul Plaza was ( I assume still is) full of people spouting out ideas that are far from middle of the road or mainstream, often in a confrontational manner.
Part of being a part on a college campus is learning to respect alternative points of view.
Shame on the guy who decided that punching was the way to get his point across. if he is a student, I would think he might be expelled. The context of the punch makes this worse for him (in my mind) than if this was a bar fight or over a woman (or the last piece of pizza or whatever). This shows a lack of open respect to ideas - which is something the University has to protect since the free flow of ideas is central to the mission of the University.
EDIT:
Looks like the University's response is consistent with my points and that neither puncher nor puchee are students (good).
A lifetime of suffering as a Cal fan.
Black Eyes are the real problem.
Just need to make sure that this is understood by all. If you need to discuss this incident further you should take this into account. Another poster posted a link to this information in the Off Topic forum where this one will land in over/under two hours: https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/02/22/uc-berkeley-police-identify-suspect-in-sproul-plaza-assault/Another Bear said:
Okay so both the puncher and punchee (Mr. Williams) are NOT students at Cal.
When I was a young Daily Cal journalist, I would sometimes cover protesters. Sometimes in their planning stages. Like actual student protesters. And one of the major complaints was how outsiders would latch onto their peaceful protests and cause trouble. Groups like BAMN that are still around today.
Berkeley is, of course, a prime battleground to set a narrative about anti-free speech. And yet, people here who should know better always fall for the storylines that the trolls are trying to feed.
Berkeley is, of course, a prime battleground to set a narrative about anti-free speech. And yet, people here who should know better always fall for the storylines that the trolls are trying to feed.
LOL. What a nothing story this turned out to be.B.A. Bearacus said:Just need to make sure that this is understood by all. If you need to discuss this incident further you should take this into account. Another poster posted a link to this information in the Off Topic forum where this one will land in over/under two hours: https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/02/22/uc-berkeley-police-identify-suspect-in-sproul-plaza-assault/Another Bear said:
Okay so both the puncher and punchee (Mr. Williams) are NOT students at Cal.
OK so lets get something straight (which as Cal alums and/or supporters we should ABSOLUTELY know better)
1) There was (and of course now confirmed) that the incident took place between NON students. As we _ALL_ should know, Sproul is essentially an extension of Southside - at least before Sather Gate. A TON O of non-student are always there.
2) The whole "riot" thing was, again, not necessarily a crime of STUDENTS. As most (all?) of know - most of the riots on telegraph avenue (seemingly endless like the Sparrows at San Juan Capistrano) are not instigated or promoted by STUDENTS but, again, by the hangers on that reside in Berkeley and Oakland.
3) While there remain a hard core liberal group at Cal the University has LARGELY moved to a different place. It isn't as nearly corporate as UCSD or has the whole Start up scene of Furd but it is largely populated by students (and a lot of faculty) that are far past the days of a nuclear free zone for Berkeley or fighting off the latest social justice offense. Indeed, it is pretty RARE to find a Cal Prof, from the academy, that is at the forefront of those things. Reich comes the closest but lets be blunt - he is more of a "star" than an actual academic that would have gotten hired on his scholarly merits. Probably why he is at one of the "professional" schools.
4) And this will only grow more the case as Berkeley continues to gentrify. People that can afford 1.8 for a 3 bedroom house are not going to be manning the barricades and signing Can you Hear the People Sing.
1) There was (and of course now confirmed) that the incident took place between NON students. As we _ALL_ should know, Sproul is essentially an extension of Southside - at least before Sather Gate. A TON O of non-student are always there.
2) The whole "riot" thing was, again, not necessarily a crime of STUDENTS. As most (all?) of know - most of the riots on telegraph avenue (seemingly endless like the Sparrows at San Juan Capistrano) are not instigated or promoted by STUDENTS but, again, by the hangers on that reside in Berkeley and Oakland.
3) While there remain a hard core liberal group at Cal the University has LARGELY moved to a different place. It isn't as nearly corporate as UCSD or has the whole Start up scene of Furd but it is largely populated by students (and a lot of faculty) that are far past the days of a nuclear free zone for Berkeley or fighting off the latest social justice offense. Indeed, it is pretty RARE to find a Cal Prof, from the academy, that is at the forefront of those things. Reich comes the closest but lets be blunt - he is more of a "star" than an actual academic that would have gotten hired on his scholarly merits. Probably why he is at one of the "professional" schools.
4) And this will only grow more the case as Berkeley continues to gentrify. People that can afford 1.8 for a 3 bedroom house are not going to be manning the barricades and signing Can you Hear the People Sing.
Haha, I remember those meeting on the organizing side and what you're saying is true. There were always disrupters who wanted attention, crash the police lines or just cause problems not related to the protest. I remember organizing meetings where "sacrificial arrests" were discussed and calculated, i.e., the disrupters who wanted to crash police lines and get arrested.okaydo said:
When I was a young Daily Cal journalist, I would sometimes cover protesters. Sometimes in their planning stages. Like actual student protesters. And one of the major complaints was how outsiders would latch onto their peaceful protests and cause trouble. Groups like BAMN that are still around today.
Berkeley is, of course, a prime battleground to set a narrative about anti-free speech. And yet, people here who should know better always fall for the storylines that the trolls are trying to feed.
The logic was to ID these types and let them do their "thing", let them get arrested and out of the way and let the protest proceed...so there's no outbreak of violence and no one gets their heads kicked in. The police even knew of these types and played along. And yes, it was often easy to figure out who were students and who were the disrupters.
It was very enlightening to see this in person. Sure enough once the protest started and the police line was set, a few nut jobs would fly out of nowhere, scream some crap and make a run at the police line..and the cops would pick them off and drag them away. Then the protest would start and proceed peacefully.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
sycasey said:LOL. What a nothing story this turned out to be.B.A. Bearacus said:Just need to make sure that this is understood by all. If you need to discuss this incident further you should take this into account. Another poster posted a link to this information in the Off Topic forum where this one will land in over/under two hours: https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/02/22/uc-berkeley-police-identify-suspect-in-sproul-plaza-assault/Another Bear said:
Okay so both the puncher and punchee (Mr. Williams) are NOT students at Cal.
Oh, it's a something story...on right-wing websites, Fox News, etc. They don't care about the truth as long as it feeds a narrative.
There was a UC Berkeley student who two years ago posted a "Day in the life" YouTube video, as many students do. And I remember reading the comment underneath it: "Trying to convince us This isn't a Censored Liberal hellhole that has excluded 50% of the population and blocked off half of the country from even speaking here?"
Even though you say the other guy should get punished you are basically saying the guy deserved it because of his speech. It sure sounds like you are hostile to speech that you disagree with. Violence is never justified against mere speech.CRBear said:oski003 said:
Here's hoping that CRBear wasn't the fan who threw the full soda that hit my wife in the young alumni section at the Cal UCLA game a few years ago. She was wearing a Bruins jersey that she got as an undergrad. Because of that, she will never go to a game at memorial again.
Anyway, this incident does not necessarily indicate that Berkeley is hostile to free speech. CRBear is, however.
OMG. I'm not hostile to free speech but apparently you're hostile to reading comprehension. I just think that a guy acting like a jerk being punched by an even bigger jerk is not national news. You guys are all bent out of shape about it and I'm not. I think the kid who punched him needs to be punished and the kid who got punched is going to be just fine.
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