Poll: Should every student who knowingly submitted doctored SAT scores be expelled?

7,776 Views | 55 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by B.A. Bearacus
B.A. Bearacus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Should they be expelled from the school they are at currently if their SAT/ACT was paid for? Star your choice.
B.A. Bearacus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A. Yes
B.A. Bearacus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
B. No
Another Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Fraud is fraud.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
socaliganbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Nope.
B.A. Bearacus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
socaliganbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
pingpong2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Quote:

who knowingly submitted doctored SAT scores
Key words bolded for emphasis.
B.A. Bearacus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
socaliganbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.

NYCGOBEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
They need to GTFO.
golden sloth
How long do you want to ignore this user?
B.A. Bearacus said:

A. Yes
Yes, and they should be fined, with the fines going towards scholarships for low income students with good grades.
Another Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Maybe the compromise is the kid stays but takes the test over and a real score should be on record wth an asterisk *....and yes, a LARGE donation to the general scholarship fund, or a pledge to help 12 other kids.

No getting off scot free. That's bull shtt.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
B.A. Bearacus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/arrests-made-nationwide-college-admissions-scam-alleged-exam-cheating-athletic

Quote:

According to the charging documents, Singer facilitated cheating on the SAT and ACT exams for his clients by instructing them to seek extended time for their children on college entrance exams, which included having the children purport to have learning disabilities in order to obtain the required medical documentation. Once the extended time was granted, Singer allegedly instructed the clients to change the location of the exams to one of two test centers: a public high school in Houston, Texas, or a private college preparatory school in West Hollywood, Calif. At those test centers, Singer had established relationships with test administrators Niki Williams and Igor Dvorskiy, respectively, who accepted bribes of as much as $10,000 per test in order to facilitate the cheating scheme. Specifically, Williams and Dvorskiy allowed a third individual, typically Riddell, to take the exams in place of the students, to give the students the correct answers during the exams, or to correct the students' answers after they completed the exams. Singer typically paid Ridell $10,000 for each student's test. In many instances, the students taking the exams were unaware that their parents had arranged for the cheating.
How dumb could these students possibly be to not know something was fishy? The kids are playing dumb. They didn't orchestrate the whole cheat, but they ALL knew they were benefiting from some unfair advantage (unlimited extra time in Houston) or straightup naked fraud (someone taking the test for them or knowing the answers beforehand).

blungld
How long do you want to ignore this user?
socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.


I find it almost impossible to believe they didn't know, or at least have suspicion. Hey, I got a crew scholarship! Weird. I've never been in a boat! Weird I got into Yale with a 3.3 GPA!

But I didn't their innocence should have anything to do with it. It's a horrible life lesson for them to move forward and benefit without consequence. These kids (and their parents and future kids and parents) need a wake up call to their ego and entitlement and what is right and wrong. If nothing happens there is no lesson.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
Blueblood
How long do you want to ignore this user?


"We at stanfurd would say,
'Off with their heads!'"
bearsandgiants
How long do you want to ignore this user?
socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
but only if they cheated on the reading comprehension portion of the exam
GMP
How long do you want to ignore this user?
blungld said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.


I find it almost impossible to believe they didn't know, or at least have suspicion. Hey, I got a crew scholarship! Weird. I've never been in a boat! Weird I got into Yale with a 3.3 GPA!

But I didn't their innocence should have anything to do with it. It's a horrible life lesson for them to move forward and benefit without consequence. These kids (and their parents and future kids and parents) need a wake up call to their ego and entitlement and what is right and wrong. If nothing happens there is no lesson.
If you read the indictment, it's clear that some kids had no idea; others did. For example for one kid who got into USC, the middleman and the dad discussed how to keep the athletic aspect from the kid, and what to tell the kid if/when he/she received a letter inviting the kid to the athletics orientation the summer before school started.
socaliganbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
There's a reason these kids are too dumb to get in on their own.
wifeisafurd
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OaktownBear said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
Nicely stated Oak.

For the record, the Feds asserted the kids for the most part did not know about the bribes, etc. This makes sense. You don't want to tell you kid they are not good enough and I needed to pay someone off to help your dumb arse. From my perspective, they were admitted under false pretense, and that is all that matters. I may not expel them (that goes on their permanent record), but simply not allow them to enroll next semester. OTOH, the kids might want to reassess their relationship with their parent.

Edit: for the kids that did know, expel the butts.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
blungld said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?



I find it almost impossible to believe they didn't know, or at least have suspicion. Hey, I got a crew scholarship! Weird. I've never been in a boat! Weird I got into Yale with a 3.3 GPA!

But I didn't their innocence should have anything to do with it. It's a horrible life lesson for them to move forward and benefit without consequence. These kids (and their parents and future kids and parents) need a wake up call to their ego and entitlement and what is right and wrong. If nothing happens there is no lesson.
Okay this may be apropos of nothing, but my brother received a partial baseball scholarship to a very good academic institution (in a major D1 conference). He didn't end up going there but we always found it funny. He did play that sport in high school and was a fine player, but nowhere near the level of achievement necessary to play at that level. Maybe the fact that he was a catcher helped? I dunno.

Anyhoo, still pretty sure my parents didn't bribe his way in as they were the ones pushing hardest for him not to go to that school. Nevertheless, your post triggered this memory so thanks for giving me something to laugh about.
TandemBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wifeisafurd said:

OaktownBear said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
Nicely stated Oak.

For the record, the Feds asserted the kids for the most part did not know about the bribes, etc. This makes sense. You don't want to tell you kid they are not good enough and I needed to pay someone off to help your dumb arse. From my perspective, they were admitted under false pretense, and that is all that matters. I may not expel them (that goes on their permanent record), but simply not allow them to enroll next semester. OTOH, the kids might want to reassess their relationship with their parent.

Edit: for the kids that did know, expel the butts.
Yes, very well put, Oaktown! I'll add...somewhat redundantly (now that I actually read the replies!)...

The problem with not expelling the student who may not have known is that you've effectively expelled an innocent student who was displaced by the fraudulent admission. This is a wrong that should not be perpetuated. Expel all students involved and admit those who earned it.

This is the best course of action. Sure, the unknowing kids will feel wronged, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't attending on merit required for admission.

PS Full disclosure. My kid's right in the middle of the admissions process. I would like to know that admission would be based solely on merit. That said, I'm kinda pissed our college counselor didn't "go that extra mile," if you get my drift! I kid. Jeez, that's not even funny!
okaydo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Let her stay (by the way, Lori Loughlin's daughter, an "influencer," has 1.9 million followers on Intagram and 1.3 million YouTube subscribers.

She went to USC for the content. (I think Amazon sponsored this video):


okaydo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Will Trump pardon Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin?

Star this post for yes.

okaydo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Star this post for no.
BearlyCareAnymore
How long do you want to ignore this user?
wifeisafurd said:

OaktownBear said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
Nicely stated Oak.

For the record, the Feds asserted the kids for the most part did not know about the bribes, etc. This makes sense. You don't want to tell you kid they are not good enough and I needed to pay someone off to help your dumb arse. From my perspective, they were admitted under false pretense, and that is all that matters. I may not expel them (that goes on their permanent record), but simply not allow them to enroll next semester. OTOH, the kids might want to reassess their relationship with their parent.

Edit: for the kids that did know, expel the butts.


I think the thing that many of us are struggling with is, okay, you didn't know about the bribes. But for some they knew at minimum that they were getting accommodations for learning disabilities they did not have. That is wrong. They knew they were getting in through a sport they didn't play. That is wrong. Maybe they thought their parents were "pulling strings". Maybe they weren't aware it was a crime. But they knew they were getting significant unfair advantages. Hard to be sympathetic. As I said, if they didn't know, let them finish the semester and don't put a black mark on their record. But they need to go.

I have to say, this brings to mind stories I've heard from Lowell High alums. People who live near the city and can't afford private school often find a way to falsify an SF address to get into Lowell. Periodically someone would get found out. Someone would go to their class and say please come with me and bring your stuff. And they'd never be seen at the school again.
bear2034
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Kids might know something is up when they get accepted to Yale and Cal St. Bakersfield and nothing else in between.
NYCGOBEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Star this because I need more stars.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TandemBear said:

wifeisafurd said:

OaktownBear said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
Nicely stated Oak.

For the record, the Feds asserted the kids for the most part did not know about the bribes, etc. This makes sense. You don't want to tell you kid they are not good enough and I needed to pay someone off to help your dumb arse. From my perspective, they were admitted under false pretense, and that is all that matters. I may not expel them (that goes on their permanent record), but simply not allow them to enroll next semester. OTOH, the kids might want to reassess their relationship with their parent.

Edit: for the kids that did know, expel the butts.
Yes, very well put, Oaktown! I'll add...somewhat redundantly (now that I actually read the replies!)...

The problem with not expelling the student who may not have known is that you've effectively expelled an innocent student who was displaced by the fraudulent admission. This is a wrong that should not be perpetuated. Expel all students involved and admit those who earned it.

This is the best course of action. Sure, the unknowing kids will feel wronged, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't attending on merit required for admission.

PS Full disclosure. My kid's right in the middle of the admissions process. I would like to know that admission would be based solely on merit. That said, I'm kinda pissed our college counselor didn't "go that extra mile," if you get my drift! I kid. Jeez, that's not even funny!


If you do not expel the kid's whose rich dads bought their way into UPenn (knowingly or unknowingly) then they may grow up to be arrogant idiots who think they really have "the best brain" and that they do not need to read or listen to experts, but can get all they need to know from the talking heads at Fox News. Moreover, they will continue to cheat their way through life: cheat on grades, cheat their way out of military service, cheat on taxes, cheat on business deals, cheat consumers, cheat employees, cheat on marriages, cheat on elections...It is important for these kids to learn a little humility, to understand money will not always get them their way. They are from rich families and will be fine, they will still live lives of the 1%, but our society will be better if these future captains of the family businesses learn that cheating is not the way and that facts, science, reason, learning and knowledge matter.
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
B.A. Bearacus said:

Should they be expelled from the school they are at currently if their SAT/ACT was paid for? Star your choice.


Yes.
OneTopOneChickenApple
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

TandemBear said:

wifeisafurd said:

OaktownBear said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
Nicely stated Oak.

For the record, the Feds asserted the kids for the most part did not know about the bribes, etc. This makes sense. You don't want to tell you kid they are not good enough and I needed to pay someone off to help your dumb arse. From my perspective, they were admitted under false pretense, and that is all that matters. I may not expel them (that goes on their permanent record), but simply not allow them to enroll next semester. OTOH, the kids might want to reassess their relationship with their parent.

Edit: for the kids that did know, expel the butts.
Yes, very well put, Oaktown! I'll add...somewhat redundantly (now that I actually read the replies!)...

The problem with not expelling the student who may not have known is that you've effectively expelled an innocent student who was displaced by the fraudulent admission. This is a wrong that should not be perpetuated. Expel all students involved and admit those who earned it.

This is the best course of action. Sure, the unknowing kids will feel wronged, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't attending on merit required for admission.

PS Full disclosure. My kid's right in the middle of the admissions process. I would like to know that admission would be based solely on merit. That said, I'm kinda pissed our college counselor didn't "go that extra mile," if you get my drift! I kid. Jeez, that's not even funny!


If you do not expel the kid's whose rich dads bought their way into UPenn (knowingly or unknowingly) then they may grow up to be arrogant idiots who think they really have "the best brain" and that they do not need to read or listen to experts, but can get all they need to know from the talking heads at Fox News. Moreover, they will continue to cheat their way through life: cheat on grades, cheat their way out of military service, cheat on taxes, cheat on business deals, cheat consumers, cheat employees, cheat on marriages, cheat on elections...It is important for these kids to learn a little humility, to understand money will not always get them their way. They are from rich families and will be fine, they will still live lives of the 1%, but our society will be better if these future captains of the family businesses learn that cheating is not the way and that facts, science, reason, learning and knowledge matter.
Yes!
How could the students not know they weren't competitive athletes. I don't know exactly how the application process is now, but I assume it is done online and students have to swear that all information is theirs and accurate.
TandemBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

TandemBear said:

wifeisafurd said:

OaktownBear said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
Nicely stated Oak.

For the record, the Feds asserted the kids for the most part did not know about the bribes, etc. This makes sense. You don't want to tell you kid they are not good enough and I needed to pay someone off to help your dumb arse. From my perspective, they were admitted under false pretense, and that is all that matters. I may not expel them (that goes on their permanent record), but simply not allow them to enroll next semester. OTOH, the kids might want to reassess their relationship with their parent.

Edit: for the kids that did know, expel the butts.
Yes, very well put, Oaktown! I'll add...somewhat redundantly (now that I actually read the replies!)...

The problem with not expelling the student who may not have known is that you've effectively expelled an innocent student who was displaced by the fraudulent admission. This is a wrong that should not be perpetuated. Expel all students involved and admit those who earned it.

This is the best course of action. Sure, the unknowing kids will feel wronged, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't attending on merit required for admission.

PS Full disclosure. My kid's right in the middle of the admissions process. I would like to know that admission would be based solely on merit. That said, I'm kinda pissed our college counselor didn't "go that extra mile," if you get my drift! I kid. Jeez, that's not even funny!


If you do not expel the kid's whose rich dads bought their way into UPenn (knowingly or unknowingly) then they may grow up to be arrogant idiots who think they really have "the best brain" and that they do not need to read or listen to experts, but can get all they need to know from the talking heads at Fox News. Moreover, they will continue to cheat their way through life: cheat on grades, cheat their way out of military service, cheat on taxes, cheat on business deals, cheat consumers, cheat employees, cheat on marriages, cheat on elections...It is important for these kids to learn a little humility, to understand money will not always get them their way. They are from rich families and will be fine, they will still live lives of the 1%, but our society will be better if these future captains of the family businesses learn that cheating is not the way and that facts, science, reason, learning and knowledge matter.
Oh hellz yes!!!!
GMP
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OneTopOneChickenApple said:

calumnus said:

TandemBear said:

wifeisafurd said:

OaktownBear said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

socaliganbear said:

Nope.
SoCal, to clarify: you are saying that falsified SAT scores should not be grounds for expulsion? You're saying other factors should be taken into consideration?
I'm saying these kids, who are already in school, and presumably did not know about this, should not be expelled.
Curious why you would presume that they didn't know about this? I would assume that in 99.9% of cases, the students knew what was up.
Some of the articles I've read have said they didn't know. In one case, the student was surprised at how well he/she did and even considered taking it again because they might do even better. I'm sure some knew, but unless the school can prove that, I wouldn't expel them.




So an unqualified student whose parents cheated them into school on false pretenses should continue to take up a slot that could go to a qualified student. I'm sorry - no. If they knew, they need to be expelled. If they didn't know, they are still getting undeserved benefit. I sympathize enough to let them finish the current semester and to say the school should help them transfer. But no, they don't get to continue.

Next time your bank accidentally credits your account (as has happened to me) see if you get to keep the money.

I also don't buy that most didn't know. There is a difference between actually not knowing and the parties shielding them from proof of knowledge.
Nicely stated Oak.

For the record, the Feds asserted the kids for the most part did not know about the bribes, etc. This makes sense. You don't want to tell you kid they are not good enough and I needed to pay someone off to help your dumb arse. From my perspective, they were admitted under false pretense, and that is all that matters. I may not expel them (that goes on their permanent record), but simply not allow them to enroll next semester. OTOH, the kids might want to reassess their relationship with their parent.

Edit: for the kids that did know, expel the butts.
Yes, very well put, Oaktown! I'll add...somewhat redundantly (now that I actually read the replies!)...

The problem with not expelling the student who may not have known is that you've effectively expelled an innocent student who was displaced by the fraudulent admission. This is a wrong that should not be perpetuated. Expel all students involved and admit those who earned it.

This is the best course of action. Sure, the unknowing kids will feel wronged, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't attending on merit required for admission.

PS Full disclosure. My kid's right in the middle of the admissions process. I would like to know that admission would be based solely on merit. That said, I'm kinda pissed our college counselor didn't "go that extra mile," if you get my drift! I kid. Jeez, that's not even funny!


If you do not expel the kid's whose rich dads bought their way into UPenn (knowingly or unknowingly) then they may grow up to be arrogant idiots who think they really have "the best brain" and that they do not need to read or listen to experts, but can get all they need to know from the talking heads at Fox News. Moreover, they will continue to cheat their way through life: cheat on grades, cheat their way out of military service, cheat on taxes, cheat on business deals, cheat consumers, cheat employees, cheat on marriages, cheat on elections...It is important for these kids to learn a little humility, to understand money will not always get them their way. They are from rich families and will be fine, they will still live lives of the 1%, but our society will be better if these future captains of the family businesses learn that cheating is not the way and that facts, science, reason, learning and knowledge matter.
Yes!
How could the students not know they weren't competitive athletes. I don't know exactly how the application process is now, but I assume it is done online and students have to swear that all information is theirs and accurate.


If you read it, you'd know. For example, the USC assistant athletic director got paid by one parent $20,000 a month for some amount of months in exchange for taking a faked student athlete profile (fake pic, stats, test scores) into a meeting with officials from admissions. She would say, "X is an athletes in Y sport and Coach Z wants him/her." Admissions, not knowing it was fake, signed off. This was in the summer or early fall BEFORE the application was submitted. Then the kid would apply in the fall and be admitted.
25To20
How long do you want to ignore this user?
B.A. Bearacus said:

Should they be expelled from the school they are at currently if their SAT/ACT was paid for? Star your choice.
Yes
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.