Hey Rushinbear.....
You asked,....
Here you go......
Cheers!!
Go Bears!!
You asked,....
Here you go......
Cheers!!
Go Bears!!
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Concussion
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Last: 5 yr ago by oski003
2th, thanks for thinking of me, lo these many days. That is a well done presentation. I think the thing it minimizes is that brains are different (I know, it does state that...once), but it doesn't appear that we know why the same (relative) impacts have such different outcomes. Thousands of soccer players head the ball in exactly the same way, over and over, yet some seem to be affected and others less so, if at all. Football players, with their scientifically designed helmets, seem somewhat protected, although we know it's what happens inside the skull, that helmets can't do much about.Bears2thDoc said:
Hey Rushinbear.....
You asked,....
Here you go......
Cheers!!
Go Bears!!
In the meantime, since there is a gap between what we know and what happens in situ, do we prohibit these sports altogether? I don't think so. And, since most sports involve some level of head impact or sudden relocation, it would mean prohibiting most of them (although I think the list of those sports having some level of it from a previous thread is preposterous. I think I remember the list including bowling, badminton, or some such).
I think it's good to warn kids and their parents with a simpler version of this video, maybe, and maybe do it every year before the season starts, but ultimately, you pays your money and takes your choice in life and that's all you can do, and still leave people to be responsible for their own decisions.
One anecdotal piece of evidence on our differences: I hit the guy teaching me how to box on the top, front of his head and he didn't blink; he hit me on the top, front of my head and I saw stars. I was 8" taller and 50 lbs heavier than the guy. Thank God I only played one year of football and only worked out on the heavy bag after that sparring session.
Here's an anecdote of mine. At a hs baseball practice, I was 20' past first, having run out a grounder, when I was beaned in the back of the head and knocked cold. I don't know how long I was out, but I woke up on my back with the coaches and players standing around me. The coach told me to go sit down, which I did. Then, I was ignored by one and all for at least an hour. Seeing no help forthcoming, I stumbled to the bus stop, rode home and promptly vomited. I was rushed to the hospital where I stayed overnight and then pronounced good to go.82gradDLSdad said:
One anecdotal piece of evidence on our differences: I hit the guy teaching me how to box on the top, front of his head and he didn't blink; he hit me on the top, front of my head and I saw stars. I was 8" taller and 50 lbs heavier than the guy. Thank God I only played one year of football and only worked out on the heavy bag after that sparring session.
Some will argue, but I suffered no after effects that I am aware of. And, I went on to have a highly successful academic and productive life (still at it, in fact). And, while I never played baseball again (tried the next season, but couldn't lay off the high hard one, served up by the coach throwing bp), I played fb and 13 years of rugby including 3 as a Guano at Cal.
Could I have become even more successful? That's a fool's errand. The point is that life is a mystery, best enjoyed to the fullest by each person in their own experience. I wouldn't trade mine for anyone else's.
Change might be on the horizon. I imagine this to be a big game changer.
AP: Brain scans may reveal concussion damage in living athletes
AP: Brain scans may reveal concussion damage in living athletes
Quote:
Researchers may be closing in on a way to check athletes while they're alive for signs of a degenerative brain disease that's been linked to frequent head blows. Experimental scans found higher levels of an abnormal protein tied to the disease in a study of former National Football League players who were having mood and thinking problems.
It's the first time a major study has tested these scans for detecting chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, which is only diagnosed now after death, with brain autopsies.
Doctors are searching for a way to tell when players, veterans or others with concussions or other head injuries are at risk for permanent damage. It's too soon to know if the scans will enable that so far they only show that these athletes are different as a group; they can't be used to say a particular player does or does not have CTE.
"We're not there yet," said Boston University neuroscientist Robert Stern. "It is not ready to be used for individual diagnosis in the clinic."
He led the study, published Wednesday by the New England Journal of Medicine.
"It's an encouraging advance. It looks like they have detected CTE in living players," said Dr. Gil Rabinovici, a neurologist and imaging expert at the University of California, San Francisco, who is doing other research using the scans.
"It's hugely important to be able to detect the disease in living people" to know how common it is and to research treatments, he said.
AB...you beat me to it.
Cheers!
Go Bears!!
Cheers!
Go Bears!!
I may have already posted this, but for all you parents of young(er) kids...
Concussion baseline testing is available for children. They are conducted BEFORE any injury occurs or is suspected. These tests will help diagnose, treat and determine recovery if a concussion is sustained or suspected.
A girl on my daughter's soccer team suffered a concussion. Her mother learned, only after the fact, that pre-injury testing is available for kids. She really wishes she had known beforehand. Children's Hospital/UCSF Benioff Oakland offers this service for $40. Well worth the expense if the worst comes to pass.
https://www.childrenshospitaloakland.org/main/departments-services/sports-concussion-program-174.aspx
Concussion baseline testing is available for children. They are conducted BEFORE any injury occurs or is suspected. These tests will help diagnose, treat and determine recovery if a concussion is sustained or suspected.
A girl on my daughter's soccer team suffered a concussion. Her mother learned, only after the fact, that pre-injury testing is available for kids. She really wishes she had known beforehand. Children's Hospital/UCSF Benioff Oakland offers this service for $40. Well worth the expense if the worst comes to pass.
https://www.childrenshospitaloakland.org/main/departments-services/sports-concussion-program-174.aspx
Similar to the baseline testing Cal athletes take.TandemBear said:
I may have already posted this, but for all you parents of young(er) kids...
Concussion baseline testing is available for children. They are conducted BEFORE any injury occurs or is suspected. These tests will help diagnose, treat and determine recovery if a concussion is sustained or suspected.
A girl on my daughter's soccer team suffered a concussion. Her mother learned, only after the fact, that pre-injury testing is available for kids. She really wishes she had known beforehand. Children's Hospital/UCSF Benioff Oakland offers this service for $40. Well worth the expense if the worst comes to pass.
https://www.childrenshospitaloakland.org/main/departments-services/sports-concussion-program-174.aspx
Fyi, Cal's ex head team physician and Cal's neuropsych doc are running that program.
Cheers!
Go Bears!!!
Younger kids are especially vulnerable to sub-concussive impacts to the brain. The brain isn't "janggled" enough to cause a full concussion, but neurons are damaged with each hit, tackle, header, etc.
Dr. Ben Omalu, who discovered CTE calls youth football "child abuse" because this damage is permanent and if a kid plays through high school, he will suffer hundreds of such impacts. The brain has billions of neurons, which is why you don't see zombied-out 14 year old youth football players.
But depession, acting out, stuggles to stay focused on academics during class & doing homework have been linked to sustained sub-concussive impacts in teenagers. The problems are real & severe.
Dr. Ben Omalu, who discovered CTE calls youth football "child abuse" because this damage is permanent and if a kid plays through high school, he will suffer hundreds of such impacts. The brain has billions of neurons, which is why you don't see zombied-out 14 year old youth football players.
But depession, acting out, stuggles to stay focused on academics during class & doing homework have been linked to sustained sub-concussive impacts in teenagers. The problems are real & severe.
I'm going to reserve judgement on the statement that kids are really susceptible to injury caused by sub-concussive impacts. Humans have survived millions of years of evolution, with children sustaining all sorts of impacts without helmets or other protective gear. I find it hard to believe that suddenly our kids are these beings will eggshell skulls containing brains that are prone to injury after the slightest impact. You think parents never dropped kids? Kids never fell down? Things didn't hit them in the head in the past? Kids, by their nature, are always falling down, playing rough, taking risks and getting injured. That's what kids do!
Now this could indeed be true, but I would conjure that it's due to some external condition that's causing this sudden vulnerability to sub-concussive impacts. If there's an emerging incidence of injury due to relatively minor forces, then it would probably be due to other factors. I'd place chemical exposure top of the list. We allow our chemical industries to release any and all manner of compounds into the environment without safety studies beforehand. We let the public unknowingly "test" the safety by letting them sue after the fact. Look at the fire ******ant issue alone. "New car smell" has GOT to be a toxic soup of long-chain hydrocarbons that simply cannot be good for us. MTBE was introduced into gasoline, causing all number of problems. Look at PG&E releasing hexavalent chromium into the environment, poisoning local residents. Even new homes with all their materials containing hydrocarbon compounds emit all sorts of chemicals no one even knows about. And it looks like we're doing a great job inundating our oceans with micro plastics with who knows what effects they'll produce.
But that's just a wild guess on my part. I could be and probably am totally wrong.
Now I support the use of protective equipment. No reason a kid shouldn't be wearing padding and helmets whenever prudent. Especially when there's equipment available that is shown to reduce injury. Skiing and cycling are two perfect examples. When I grew up riding, skiing, skateboarding and doing other crazy high-speed insanity, we didn't wear helmets. Juvenile helmets for bikes didn't even exist. (I think BMX utilized helmets, but they were never intended for anything other than short-duration, super high intensity events like a BMX competition.) And the first helmets that did hit the market either didn't work, weren't certified effective, or, in rare cases, made some impacts worse! (The SkidLid bicycle helmet is the prime example - which I wore or many miles!) In fact, there's a very strong argument for wearing helmets in automobiles, as passenger head injury is a frequent and serious injury. There's obviously no serious push to use helmets in cars, even though it wouldn't be a bad idea. But do think kids are suddenly these fragile little things that have to be wrapped in bubble wrap is going a bit too far.
Now if there's a significant rise in juvenile head injury, I'd surmise it's due to the much higher level of competition and speed seen on the field these days. (And, as mentioned, perhaps other external conditions.) College football today consists of much larger, stronger and faster players than a generation ago. And I'm sure this holds true for most other high-level sports kids are playing and getting scholarships for. Soccer is a whole new ballgame here now - and we STILL don't compete at the highest levels in the world. But when I played high school soccer, there were few leagues, if any, in my area where kids were practicing every day of the week and playing games every weekend, near and far. The pursuit of scholarships has ratcheted up high school sports to incredible heights. And the result is hyper-competitive athletes striving to play at the highest levels. With this comes faster, bigger and stronger players and resulting higher injury rates.
That's my $.02.
Edit: apparently, a chemical used to "slow or greatly reduce" fire in materials, otherwise known as a "fire r.e.t.a.r.d.a.n.t" is a banned word on BI. Silly algorithm censors!
Now this could indeed be true, but I would conjure that it's due to some external condition that's causing this sudden vulnerability to sub-concussive impacts. If there's an emerging incidence of injury due to relatively minor forces, then it would probably be due to other factors. I'd place chemical exposure top of the list. We allow our chemical industries to release any and all manner of compounds into the environment without safety studies beforehand. We let the public unknowingly "test" the safety by letting them sue after the fact. Look at the fire ******ant issue alone. "New car smell" has GOT to be a toxic soup of long-chain hydrocarbons that simply cannot be good for us. MTBE was introduced into gasoline, causing all number of problems. Look at PG&E releasing hexavalent chromium into the environment, poisoning local residents. Even new homes with all their materials containing hydrocarbon compounds emit all sorts of chemicals no one even knows about. And it looks like we're doing a great job inundating our oceans with micro plastics with who knows what effects they'll produce.
But that's just a wild guess on my part. I could be and probably am totally wrong.
Now I support the use of protective equipment. No reason a kid shouldn't be wearing padding and helmets whenever prudent. Especially when there's equipment available that is shown to reduce injury. Skiing and cycling are two perfect examples. When I grew up riding, skiing, skateboarding and doing other crazy high-speed insanity, we didn't wear helmets. Juvenile helmets for bikes didn't even exist. (I think BMX utilized helmets, but they were never intended for anything other than short-duration, super high intensity events like a BMX competition.) And the first helmets that did hit the market either didn't work, weren't certified effective, or, in rare cases, made some impacts worse! (The SkidLid bicycle helmet is the prime example - which I wore or many miles!) In fact, there's a very strong argument for wearing helmets in automobiles, as passenger head injury is a frequent and serious injury. There's obviously no serious push to use helmets in cars, even though it wouldn't be a bad idea. But do think kids are suddenly these fragile little things that have to be wrapped in bubble wrap is going a bit too far.
Now if there's a significant rise in juvenile head injury, I'd surmise it's due to the much higher level of competition and speed seen on the field these days. (And, as mentioned, perhaps other external conditions.) College football today consists of much larger, stronger and faster players than a generation ago. And I'm sure this holds true for most other high-level sports kids are playing and getting scholarships for. Soccer is a whole new ballgame here now - and we STILL don't compete at the highest levels in the world. But when I played high school soccer, there were few leagues, if any, in my area where kids were practicing every day of the week and playing games every weekend, near and far. The pursuit of scholarships has ratcheted up high school sports to incredible heights. And the result is hyper-competitive athletes striving to play at the highest levels. With this comes faster, bigger and stronger players and resulting higher injury rates.
That's my $.02.
Edit: apparently, a chemical used to "slow or greatly reduce" fire in materials, otherwise known as a "fire r.e.t.a.r.d.a.n.t" is a banned word on BI. Silly algorithm censors!
I suppose the term, "shaken baby syndrome" is one you aren't familiar with.TandemBear said:
I'm going to reserve judgement on the statement that kids are really susceptible to injury caused by sub-concussive impacts. Humans have survived millions of years of evolution, with children sustaining all sorts of impacts without helmets or other protective gear. I find it hard to believe that suddenly our kids are these beings will eggshell skulls containing brains that are prone to injury after the slightest impact. You think parents never dropped kids? Kids never fell down? Things didn't hit them in the head in the past? Kids, by their nature, are always falling down, playing rough, taking risks and getting injured. That's what kids do!
As for helmets....
Why is this so hard to understand?
HELMETS ONLY PROTECT AGAINST FRACTURED SKULLS
HELMETS DO NOT PROTECT FROM CONCUSSION OR SUBCONCUSSIVE HITS.
Cheers!
Go Bears!!
What does shaken baby syndrome have to do with this discussion? Child abuse is a completely different arena. And why would you assume I'm not aware of it?
Helmets have been designed with several goals in mind. Reducing accelerations on the brain and skull are their intent. Doing this reduces brain injury of various kinds. How well they achieve this goal is a good question. But nowhere on any helmet have I observed, purchased or sold have I read "This helmet is designed solely to help prevent or reduce chance of skull fracture only."
SNELL, ANSI, or ASTM standards do not signify this either.
If I'm wrong, please cite your sources. I'm honestly interested in learning otherwise if I'm mistaken.
Helmets have been designed with several goals in mind. Reducing accelerations on the brain and skull are their intent. Doing this reduces brain injury of various kinds. How well they achieve this goal is a good question. But nowhere on any helmet have I observed, purchased or sold have I read "This helmet is designed solely to help prevent or reduce chance of skull fracture only."
SNELL, ANSI, or ASTM standards do not signify this either.
If I'm wrong, please cite your sources. I'm honestly interested in learning otherwise if I'm mistaken.
Lol!
How 'bout you educating me....
Give me your source that helmets prevent concussion.
I'll wait.
Cheers!!
Go Bears!!!!
How 'bout you educating me....
Give me your source that helmets prevent concussion.
I'll wait.
Cheers!!
Go Bears!!!!
I don't think "evolution" involved kids (or adults) incurring so many blows to the head or blows that cause the brain to collide with bone as are incurred over a football career. Nor do I think that kids, by their nature, incur so many blows. From https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/sports/football/colorado-football-concussions.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=HomepageTandemBear said:
I'm going to reserve judgement on the statement that kids are really susceptible to injury caused by sub-concussive impacts. Humans have survived millions of years of evolution, with children sustaining all sorts of impacts without helmets or other protective gear. I find it hard to believe that suddenly our kids are these beings will eggshell skulls containing brains that are prone to injury after the slightest impact. You think parents never dropped kids? Kids never fell down? Things didn't hit them in the head in the past? Kids, by their nature, are always falling down, playing rough, taking risks and getting injured. That's what kids do!
Quote:
The brain sits in fluid inside the armor of a skull, and even nonconcussive whacks can result in brain colliding with bone. A couple of hard hits can come to resemble a concussion. The average football player, according to Cantu, takes 600 to 800 hits in high school and 800 to 1,000 in college.
http://depts.washington.edu/shsi/article/concussion-prevention-what-works-what-doesnt/
Good reading. Seems that there is something about helmets that help with concussions but, no, helmets do not prevent concussions.
Good reading. Seems that there is something about helmets that help with concussions but, no, helmets do not prevent concussions.
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