Chancellor Christ announces a Balanced Budget

BearGreg
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Staff
Students greet news with excitement
OskiBear11Math
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She mentions the campaign will target $5-6 billion. Pretty amazing for a Uni without a medical school. The $4 billion in capital needs seems daunting.
BearGoggles
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Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.

Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.

It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.

Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""

This is also odd on the merits.

Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california

So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.

And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
OskiBear11Math
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In a past campus conversation Christ mentions there are certain federal financial incentives for becoming a Hispanic Serving Institution, so it is somewhat budget related. I'm wondering how they arrive at the 57% White figure. Pew research had it at below 39% in 2014. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/01/24/in-2014-latinos-will-surpass-whites-as-largest-racialethnic-group-in-california/
ajm9191
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socaliganbear
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It's probably just coincidence that it was announced the same year that US News changed its algo to benefit schools with a higher percentage of under represented low income backgrounds. Which, coincidentally, bumped up EVERY single UC (including LA) except Cal.
juarezbear
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BearGoggles said:

Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.

Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.

It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.

Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""

This is also odd on the merits.

Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california

So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.

And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Since my wife is Japanese-American and my kids are hapa, I'd love to know what the politically correct term for Asian is.
golden sloth
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I figure its always safe to someone by their name.
ajm9191
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BearGoggles said:

Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.

Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.

It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.

Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""

This is also odd on the merits.

Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california

So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.

And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.

It definitely impacts both. The legislature, governor, and some regents are not happy with UC and Berkeley in particular over the apparent lack of diversity. Equity has become more of the chase than maintaining academic excellence in recent years as evident in the reapportionment of funds from the UC to the CSU and community colleges. They're the ones pulling the financial strings and expect this to surface more after the college admissions scandal.

On the fundraising front, we're in a different era from years ago when our wealthiest donors were more conservative on this matter than the set of those donors today. Just a few weeks ago, Cal and UCSD landed a $6.9M donation from Mark Zuckerberg to recruit and support underrepresented students in graduate STEM programs. There are a number of philanthropists and foundations out there, some with no preexisting Cal connections, who started giving to campus in the first place because of equity & inclusion efforts. Also, if this campaign is going to be successful, it will happen as a result of eight/nine-figure gifts. Anyone paying attention to these gifts lately will notice the strong thread of criticism following their announcements.

Lastly, when damning headlines come out like this one calling out Cal as "the worst for black students," our more progressive alumni and donors take notice, as do I imagine some of our would be athletics recruits.
71Bear
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juarezbear said:

BearGoggles said:

Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.

Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.

It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.

Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""

This is also odd on the merits.

Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california

So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.

And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Since my wife is Japanese-American and my kids are hapa, I'd love to know what the politically correct term for Asian is.
Human being....
Chabbear
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My understanding of the eligibility requirements for being a Hispanic Serving Institution starts with having 25% of your undergraduate student body being Hispanic. In looking at the Fed database, Cal was at 13.1% in 2017. There are opportunities for applying for grants from the Feds when a college reaches the 25% target but there are no guarantees.
concernedparent
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Quote:



And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.
Big C
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concernedparent said:

Quote:



And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.
Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.
71Bear
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Big C said:

concernedparent said:

Quote:



And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.
Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.
Hmmm...

Well, if you go back far enough, all of us come from the Rift Valley, therefore all humans could call themselves Africans. That would address the question.
LunchTime
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BearGreg said:

Students greet news with excitement
I just listened to a freakonmics episode about Purdue's approach to higher education costs.

Thats what we need to do IMO.
concernedparent
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Big C said:

concernedparent said:

Quote:



And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.
Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.
We're talking about race, not ethnicity here though.
GMP
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concernedparent said:

Big C said:

concernedparent said:

Quote:



And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.
Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.
We're talking about race, not ethnicity here though.
India is in Asia. Are natives of India the the same race as natives of China? Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Are natives of Saudi Arabia the same race as natives of Thailand? Georgia is in Asia. Are natives of Georgia the same race as natives of Japan?

Bobodeluxe
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Neanderthals and Denisovans can't jump.
Another Bear
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Okay so you lads want to get technical. Europe is not its own continent and in fact is a peninsula of Asia. Same tectonic plate, no oceans or seas separating them.

Gunga la Gunga
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As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.

It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.

I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
okaydo
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juarezbear said:

BearGoggles said:

Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.

Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.

It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.

Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""

This is also odd on the merits.

Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data

Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california

So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.

And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Since my wife is Japanese-American and my kids are hapa, I'd love to know what the politically correct term for Asian is.

You may or may not know this: But a hapa of Japanese descent is killing it on Jeopardy! https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jeopardy-ratings-hit-14-year-high-james-holzhauer-streak-1210525
mdbear
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BearGreg said:

Students greet news with excitement
I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.
TheFiatLux
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mdbear said:

BearGreg said:

Students greet news with excitement
I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.

I said when we hired her she was going to surprise people. The great thing about someone of her age that comes in is they can stand up to their OWN side. That's what you need. And she's not angling for her next job so she doesn't have to be political. She can just do what she thinks is right. I won't agree with her on everything, but I sure do on most things. After the utter disaster that was Dirks, she is just what we needed. What a rare time at Cal where we got what we needed.

On top of that, she's a cool lady. She's genuine. And if you'd like to say hi to her in person, she's dropping by my graduation party tomorrow night, at a bar, which I think is pretty frickin' awesome.
71Bear
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TheFiatLux said:

mdbear said:

BearGreg said:

Students greet news with excitement
I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.

I said when we hired her she was going to surprise people. The great thing about someone of her age that comes in is they can stand up to their OWN side. That's what you need. And she's not angling for her next job so she doesn't have to be political. She can just do what she thinks is right. I won't agree with her on everything, but I sure do on most things. After the utter disaster that was Dirks, she is just what we needed. What a rare time at Cal where we got what we needed.

On top of that, she's a cool lady. She's genuine. And if you'd like to say hi to her in person, she's dropping by my graduation party tomorrow night, at a bar, which I think is pretty frickin' awesome.
Higher education is all about politics. Yes, she MUST be political to get what is needed from the Regents, Legislature, Governor, employee unions, faculty, donors, etc, etc.

SonomanA1
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I would like to see details of the budget to see how it was balanced. Several years ago when California had trouble balancing the state budget, they moved the June 30th payday to July 1st or said they did to get it into the next fiscal year. In reality, the payroll system could not switch the date, so they just pretended they did.

The Chancellor said since Cal is a public institution, it should resemble the people of California. The first step they should do is then stop admitting people from out of state.
GATC
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TheFiatLux said:

mdbear said:

BearGreg said:

Students greet news with excitement
I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.

I said when we hired her she was going to surprise people. The great thing about someone of her age that comes in is they can stand up to their OWN side. That's what you need. And she's not angling for her next job so she doesn't have to be political. She can just do what she thinks is right. I won't agree with her on everything, but I sure do on most things. After the utter disaster that was Dirks, she is just what we needed. What a rare time at Cal where we got what we needed.

On top of that, she's a cool lady. She's genuine. And if you'd like to say hi to her in person, she's dropping by my graduation party tomorrow night, at a bar, which I think is pretty frickin' awesome.
Agree. We are so lucky.
BearGoggles
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Gunga la Gunga said:

As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.

It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.

I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.

The fact that Cal is not (in the view of some) sufficiently diverse is not an indication of market failure for admissions (it arguably could be for faculty). The market (admissions standards) works as it is intended - particularly in light of Prop 209 which requires that the "market" for admissions not take into account ethnic/racial/gender.

Throwing money at diversity initiatives has virtually nothing to do with balancing the budget or raising funds. It might be a worthwhile thing to do depending on how you define and value diversity.





Another Bear
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Actually promoting diversity is in fact fundraising...for the future. Get those kids in UC, get them a good education and they'll get good jobs and become donors.
GMP
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BearGoggles said:

Gunga la Gunga said:

As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.

It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.

I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.

The fact that Cal is not (in the view of some) sufficiently diverse is not an indication of market failure for admissions (it arguably could be for faculty). The market (admissions standards) works as it is intended - particularly in light of Prop 209 which requires that the "market" for admissions not take into account ethnic/racial/gender.

Throwing money at diversity initiatives has virtually nothing to do with balancing the budget or raising funds. It might be a worthwhile thing to do depending on how you define and value diversity.








Honest question, because I'm not going to watch the entire 42 minute video: Did you watch the video? Does she really connect these two issues? I see that they are back to back in an article summarizing a 42 minute discussion. It's not clear to me that she actually connected them as you suggest. If you did watch it, can you direct me to the point in he video where this occurs? If you didn't watch the video, I'd suggest that you should ensure she really did connect them before ranting about virtue signaling.

Edit: Because the way this article (not a press release as I believe you termed it) reads to me, she had what looks like a State of the Campus address, and she discussed a number of topics, including the fact the budget is balanced and including her goal to increase student body diversity. It doesn't read to me like she connected it.
calbear80
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WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS.

In one of the posts above someone asked who is Asian.

On a simplistic level, it is easy to find the answer. Just look at a world map. Whoever was born in Asia is Asian. Here are some examples:

. Anyone born in Japan: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in China: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in India: Asian (let the debate begin).
. Anyone born in Iran: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in USSR or Russia east of Ural Mountains: Asian (if you have travelled to eastern parts of Russia or the easteern former USSR Republics, you would agree).
. Anyone born in Israel: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in Saudi Arabia: Asian. (I would hate to think that evil Saudi Crown Prince MBS, is an Asian) (let the debate explode, but, according to all maps anything east of Suez Canal is in Asia).
. Steve Kerr (yes that Steve Kerr): Asian (remember, he was born in Beruit, Lebanon).
. Nick Kerr (Steve's son and former Cal Walk-on Basketball player): Is he Asian because his dad is Asian? (remember, most African Americans were not born in Africa, but, some of their ancestors were born in Africa, and as such, they are considered African Americans).
. If you look at a scientific map of human migration on earth*, you will see all humans started from somewhere in northeast Africa (please visit the 1.6 million year old skeleton of Turkana Boy in the Kenya's National Mesuem in Nairobi, simply amazing, even if not well presented).
. In the human migration map on earth* you will also see that Native Americans got to Americas after their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years and gratually migrated east and north before slowly passing through a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska and then spreading southward to Americas. Are Native Americans all Asians because their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years?
. 71Bear (a very thoughtful and informed poster) in a post above says we maybe all African Americans because, if you go far enough back, all of our ancestors came from the Rift Valley in Africa.
. Can all Asian Americans be considered African Americans because their ancestors (all of our ancestors) came from Rift Valley in Africa? I don't know.

Maybe Ward Connerly was right. He would say, like many other Americans, he is part European, part African, part Native American, part this and part that. So, he would say that it is not right to box him in only one particular ethnicity box.

We are all HUMAN BEINGS. We are all AMERICANS. Please stop trying to put us in boxes. Please stop dividing us.

Obviously, I am intentionally being very controversial in this post to start the debate during an otherwise slow Cal sports period (Cal MBB roster attribution and 2019 recruiting is simply too painful to talk About).

Now let the debate (attacks?) begin!

Go Bears!

* Several very good human migration maps are in the Museo Larco in Lima, Peru (as well as the most amazing unique museum of historic human sexuality/sex acts statues that I have ever seen anywhere in the world). There are some decent maps in the book Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. But, the best human migration map (with the dates of migration) is in the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari (I highly recommend all three).

P.S. I have travelled to around 10 African countries and it is amazing how in some of those countries the natives look just like southern Italians and Sicilians or Persians. Would you consider a person from Melilla, Spain (it is in Africa) an African? Would you consider someone from Cario, Egypt an African? How about someone from Marrakesh, Morocco? I had an Egyptian American as an employee and he was never counted as an African American in any of the statistics that we had to turn in.

P.S.S. Would you consider the Afrikaners (from South Africa who have lived in South Africa for three or four centuries) Africans and give them priority for admission to universities? I wouldn't. FYI: They look just like the people from Netherlands (that is where their ancestors are from) with white skin, blond/brown hair and blue/brown eyes and have lived a semi-privileged life compared to Black South Africans. For another example, remember South African Olympic Athlete (and now convicted murderer) Oscar Pistorius and his murdered girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp's ethnicity.

Goobear
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I wonder if there are Mexican Canadians, Asian Canadians, African Canadians or is this distinction only in the USA..

I agree we are all Americans.
BearGoggles
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GMP said:

BearGoggles said:

Gunga la Gunga said:

As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.

It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.

I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.

The fact that Cal is not (in the view of some) sufficiently diverse is not an indication of market failure for admissions (it arguably could be for faculty). The market (admissions standards) works as it is intended - particularly in light of Prop 209 which requires that the "market" for admissions not take into account ethnic/racial/gender.

Throwing money at diversity initiatives has virtually nothing to do with balancing the budget or raising funds. It might be a worthwhile thing to do depending on how you define and value diversity.








Honest question, because I'm not going to watch the entire 42 minute video: Did you watch the video? Does she really connect these two issues? I see that they are back to back in an article summarizing a 42 minute discussion. It's not clear to me that she actually connected them as you suggest. If you did watch it, can you direct me to the point in he video where this occurs? If you didn't watch the video, I'd suggest that you should ensure she really did connect them before ranting about virtue signaling.

Edit: Because the way this article (not a press release as I believe you termed it) reads to me, she had what looks like a State of the Campus address, and she discussed a number of topics, including the fact the budget is balanced and including her goal to increase student body diversity. It doesn't read to me like she connected it.
I read the press release- didn't watch the video.

And in my view, it is a press release, not an article. It is posted on the official Cal website written by an employee of UC Berkeley. That is a press release. If its misleading, I blame Cal.
juarezbear
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calbear80 said:

WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS.

In one of the posts above someone asked who is Asian.

On a simplistic level, it is easy to find the answer. Just look at a world map. Whoever was born in Asia is Asian. Here are some examples:

. Anyone born in Japan: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in China: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in India: Asian (let the debate begin).
. Anyone born in Iran: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in USSR or Russia east of Ural Mountains: Asian (if you have travelled to eastern parts of Russia or the easteern former USSR Republics, you would agree).
. Anyone born in Israel: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in Saudi Arabia: Asian. (I would hate to think that evil Saudi Crown Prince MBS, is an Asian) (let the debate explode, but, according to all maps anything east of Suez Canal is in Asia).
. Steve Kerr (yes that Steve Kerr): Asian (remember, he was born in Beruit, Lebanon).
. Nick Kerr (Steve's son and former Cal Walk-on Basketball player): Is he Asian because his dad is Asian? (remember, most African Americans were not born in Africa, but, some of their ancestors were born in Africa, and as such, they are considered African Americans).
. If you look at a scientific map of human migration on earth*, you will see all humans started from somewhere in northeast Africa (please visit the 1.6 million year old skeleton of Turkana Boy in the Kenya's National Mesuem in Nairobi, simply amazing, even if not well presented).
. In the human migration map on earth* you will also see that Native Americans got to Americas after their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years and gratually migrated east and north before slowly passing through a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska and then spreading southward to Americas. Are Native Americans all Asians because their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years?
. 71Bear (a very thoughtful and informed poster) in a post above says we maybe all African Americans because, if you go far enough back, all of our ancestors came from the Rift Valley in Africa.
. Can all Asian Americans be considered African Americans because their ancestors (all of our ancestors) came from Rift Valley in Africa? I don't know.

Maybe Ward Connerly was right. He would say, like many other Americans, he is part European, part African, part Native American, part this and part that. So, he would say that it is not right to box him in only one particular ethnicity box.

We are all HUMAN BEINGS. We are all AMERICANS. Please stop trying to put us in boxes. Please stop dividing us.

Obviously, I am intentionally being very controversial in this post to start the debate during an otherwise slow Cal sports period (Cal MBB roster attribution and 2019 recruiting is simply too painful to talk About).

Now let the debate (attacks?) begin!

Go Bears!

* Several very good human migration maps are in the Museo Larco in Lima, Peru (as well as the most amazing unique museum of historic human sexuality/sex acts statues that I have ever seen anywhere in the world). There are some decent maps in the book Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. But, the best human migration map (with the dates of migration) is in the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari (I highly recommend all three).

P.S. I have travelled to around 10 African countries and it is amazing how in some of those countries the natives look just like southern Italians and Sicilians or Persians. Would you consider a person from Melilla, Spain (it is in Africa) an African? Would you consider someone from Cario, Egypt an African? How about someone from Marrakesh, Morocco? I had an Egyptian American as an employee and he was never counted as an African American in any of the statistics that we had to turn in.

P.S.S. Would you consider the Afrikaners (from South Africa who have lived in South Africa for three or four centuries) Africans and give them priority for admission to universities? I wouldn't. FYI: They look just like the people from Netherlands (that is where their ancestors are from) with white skin, blond/brown hair and blue/brown eyes and have lived a semi-privileged life compared to Black South Africans. For another example, remember South African Olympic Athlete (and now convicted murderer) Oscar Pistorius and his murdered girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp's ethnicity.


I was the person who sincerely asked what defines Asian since my wife is Japanese and my kids are Happa. Of course we're all human beings, and part of being human is wanting what's best for one's kids while also wanting what's best for America. Sometimes, those desires are at odds. I agree that there needs to be some common sense here. I also graduated in 1980, so we're roughly the same age. When I was growing up in the US, South Asians weren't called Asian, they were called Indian or Pakistani. Asian really meant the Far East and Pacific Islanders. Israel, Iran, and Arab Nations were called the Middle East or Near East and there was no consideration of underrepresentation for natives of those countries. In fact, there were a lot of Iranian students at Cal before the 1978 Revolution, after which many returned to participate in the new country. I've often wondered how it worked out for those folks most of whom weren't very religious and thoroughly Westernized.

I was on the special action admissions committee for two years, right before the Bakke Decision. I think we can all agree that African Americans continue to be woefully underrepresented on the Berkeley Campus, and i'm always annoyed when folks like Clarence Thomas oppose affirmative action when they themselves have benefitted from it.

As for South Africa, my sister's neighbor in San Diego was a white immigrant from Joberg who applied to college as an African American and raised a lot of eyebrows when they showed up at UCLA.
GMP
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BearGoggles said:

GMP said:

BearGoggles said:

Gunga la Gunga said:

As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.

It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.

I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.

The fact that Cal is not (in the view of some) sufficiently diverse is not an indication of market failure for admissions (it arguably could be for faculty). The market (admissions standards) works as it is intended - particularly in light of Prop 209 which requires that the "market" for admissions not take into account ethnic/racial/gender.

Throwing money at diversity initiatives has virtually nothing to do with balancing the budget or raising funds. It might be a worthwhile thing to do depending on how you define and value diversity.








Honest question, because I'm not going to watch the entire 42 minute video: Did you watch the video? Does she really connect these two issues? I see that they are back to back in an article summarizing a 42 minute discussion. It's not clear to me that she actually connected them as you suggest. If you did watch it, can you direct me to the point in he video where this occurs? If you didn't watch the video, I'd suggest that you should ensure she really did connect them before ranting about virtue signaling.

Edit: Because the way this article (not a press release as I believe you termed it) reads to me, she had what looks like a State of the Campus address, and she discussed a number of topics, including the fact the budget is balanced and including her goal to increase student body diversity. It doesn't read to me like she connected it.
I read the press release- didn't watch the video.

And in my view, it is a press release, not an article. It is posted on the official Cal website written by an employee of UC Berkeley. That is a press release. If its misleading, I blame Cal.
That's what I figured - at least you're honest. And no, it's not misleading. And yes, it's your fault - you read into it something that was not there, then went on a rant about it. That's your bad.

As an aside, a mature adult would have realized their mistake once it was pointed it out and owned up to the fact they jumped to conclusions. You should try that next time.

calbear80
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juarezbear said:

calbear80 said:

WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS.

In one of the posts above someone asked who is Asian.

On a simplistic level, it is easy to find the answer. Just look at a world map. Whoever was born in Asia is Asian. Here are some examples:

. Anyone born in Japan: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in China: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in India: Asian (let the debate begin).
. Anyone born in Iran: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in USSR or Russia east of Ural Mountains: Asian (if you have travelled to eastern parts of Russia or the easteern former USSR Republics, you would agree).
. Anyone born in Israel: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in Saudi Arabia: Asian. (I would hate to think that evil Saudi Crown Prince MBS, is an Asian) (let the debate explode, but, according to all maps anything east of Suez Canal is in Asia).
. Steve Kerr (yes that Steve Kerr): Asian (remember, he was born in Beruit, Lebanon).
. Nick Kerr (Steve's son and former Cal Walk-on Basketball player): Is he Asian because his dad is Asian? (remember, most African Americans were not born in Africa, but, some of their ancestors were born in Africa, and as such, they are considered African Americans).
. If you look at a scientific map of human migration on earth*, you will see all humans started from somewhere in northeast Africa (please visit the 1.6 million year old skeleton of Turkana Boy in the Kenya's National Mesuem in Nairobi, simply amazing, even if not well presented).
. In the human migration map on earth* you will also see that Native Americans got to Americas after their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years and gratually migrated east and north before slowly passing through a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska and then spreading southward to Americas. Are Native Americans all Asians because their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years?
. 71Bear (a very thoughtful and informed poster) in a post above says we maybe all African Americans because, if you go far enough back, all of our ancestors came from the Rift Valley in Africa.
. Can all Asian Americans be considered African Americans because their ancestors (all of our ancestors) came from Rift Valley in Africa? I don't know.

Maybe Ward Connerly was right. He would say, like many other Americans, he is part European, part African, part Native American, part this and part that. So, he would say that it is not right to box him in only one particular ethnicity box.

We are all HUMAN BEINGS. We are all AMERICANS. Please stop trying to put us in boxes. Please stop dividing us.

Obviously, I am intentionally being very controversial in this post to start the debate during an otherwise slow Cal sports period (Cal MBB roster attribution and 2019 recruiting is simply too painful to talk About).

Now let the debate (attacks?) begin!

Go Bears!

* Several very good human migration maps are in the Museo Larco in Lima, Peru (as well as the most amazing unique museum of historic human sexuality/sex acts statues that I have ever seen anywhere in the world). There are some decent maps in the book Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. But, the best human migration map (with the dates of migration) is in the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari (I highly recommend all three).

P.S. I have travelled to around 10 African countries and it is amazing how in some of those countries the natives look just like southern Italians and Sicilians or Persians. Would you consider a person from Melilla, Spain (it is in Africa) an African? Would you consider someone from Cario, Egypt an African? How about someone from Marrakesh, Morocco? I had an Egyptian American as an employee and he was never counted as an African American in any of the statistics that we had to turn in.

P.S.S. Would you consider the Afrikaners (from South Africa who have lived in South Africa for three or four centuries) Africans and give them priority for admission to universities? I wouldn't. FYI: They look just like the people from Netherlands (that is where their ancestors are from) with white skin, blond/brown hair and blue/brown eyes and have lived a semi-privileged life compared to Black South Africans. For another example, remember South African Olympic Athlete (and now convicted murderer) Oscar Pistorius and his murdered girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp's ethnicity.


I was the person who sincerely asked what defines Asian since my wife is Japanese and my kids are Happa. Of course we're all human beings, and part of being human is wanting what's best for one's kids while also wanting what's best for America. Sometimes, those desires are at odds. I agree that there needs to be some common sense here. I also graduated in 1980, so we're roughly the same age. When I was growing up in the US, South Asians weren't called Asian, they were called Indian or Pakistani. Asian really meant the Far East and Pacific Islanders. Israel, Iran, and Arab Nations were called the Middle East or Near East and there was no consideration of underrepresentation for natives of those countries. In fact, there were a lot of Iranian students at Cal before the 1978 Revolution, after which many returned to participate in the new country. I've often wondered how it worked out for those folks most of whom weren't very religious and thoroughly Westernized.

I was on the special action admissions committee for two years, right before the Bakke Decision. I think we can all agree that African Americans continue to be woefully underrepresented on the Berkeley Campus, and i'm always annoyed when folks like Clarence Thomas oppose affirmative action when they themselves have benefitted from it.

As for South Africa, my sister's neighbor in San Diego was a white immigrant from Joberg who applied to college as an African American and raised a lot of eyebrows when they showed up at UCLA.

Thank you for your post.

Do you consider Steve Kerr to be Asian American? Remember, he was born in Asia (Beirut, Lebnan is clearly in Asia).

Do you consider Nick Kerr to be Asian American? Remember, his father Steve was born in Asia.

Would you consider Steve Kerr or Nick Kerr to be Asian Americans say if they were 1/8 Chinese, but, still looked pretty much as they do now?

Do you consider Steph Curry to be African American? He, his father, his grand-father or ... were not born in Africa. Based on his (and his mother and father's) facial features and color of skin, I am guessing he is well less than 50% Black. And, by all indications, he has lived a privileged life since birth.

Another example, do you consider Kamala Harris to be African American or Asian American or neither? (one parent is from India and another is from Carrabians, I think). She has lived a privileged life, but, is trying to get ahead by claiming to be African American.

So, what is the criteria?

Isn't better to stop dividing us (and trying to give preferences to some people) based on race and call us all AMERICANS and treat us all as equals?

Go Bears!
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