Since my wife is Japanese-American and my kids are hapa, I'd love to know what the politically correct term for Asian is.BearGoggles said:
Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.
Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.
It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.
Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""
This is also odd on the merits.
Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data
Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california
So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
BearGoggles said:
Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.
Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.
It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.
Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""
This is also odd on the merits.
Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data
Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california
So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Human being....juarezbear said:Since my wife is Japanese-American and my kids are hapa, I'd love to know what the politically correct term for Asian is.BearGoggles said:
Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.
Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.
It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.
Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""
This is also odd on the merits.
Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data
Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california
So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.Quote:
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.concernedparent said:Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.Quote:
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
Hmmm...Big C said:Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.concernedparent said:Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.Quote:
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
I just listened to a freakonmics episode about Purdue's approach to higher education costs.BearGreg said:
Students greet news with excitement
We're talking about race, not ethnicity here though.Big C said:Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.concernedparent said:Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.Quote:
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
India is in Asia. Are natives of India the the same race as natives of China? Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Are natives of Saudi Arabia the same race as natives of Thailand? Georgia is in Asia. Are natives of Georgia the same race as natives of Japan?concernedparent said:We're talking about race, not ethnicity here though.Big C said:Just a guess: Asia's a pretty big country ("ignorant American" joke intended) and some might find it offensive to lump all the peoples together. "Human beings", sure, as 71 suggested, but when discussing ethnicity, more specificity. But that can be tough, so depends on the context.concernedparent said:Would love to hear how "Asian" as a racial identifier is offensive and what word we'd use to replace it with.Quote:
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
juarezbear said:Since my wife is Japanese-American and my kids are hapa, I'd love to know what the politically correct term for Asian is.BearGoggles said:
Balancing the budget is obviously good news and Christ deserves a lot of praise and credit for that.
Reading the press release, I find it odd that notions of diversity have found their way into a discussion of budget issues and capital needs.
It is a bizarre juxtaposition of issues. Cal's ethnic diversity has zero impact on whether it balances its budget and probably very little impact on other financial issues like capital/fundraising.
Christ said: "In the long run, if Berkeley is not more representative of the population of the state in terms of its ethnic mix, we are going to lose credibility as a public institution.""
This is also odd on the merits.
Here is the UC Berkeley Admissions Data: https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data
Here is California statewide ethnic breakdown: https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-california
So comparing these data points, it appears Christ wants Cal to admit a lot more whites (State is 57% white but Cal admission is only 21.3%) and a lot fewer "Asians" (13% statewide, but almost 40% at Cal) and, of course, no international students (who are a whopping 13.8%). That is based on the new student enrollment numbers.
And for the record, Asian is not my term - that is from the Census data. I know that is offensive to some and it is not my intention to offend.
I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.BearGreg said:
Students greet news with excitement
mdbear said:I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.BearGreg said:
Students greet news with excitement
Higher education is all about politics. Yes, she MUST be political to get what is needed from the Regents, Legislature, Governor, employee unions, faculty, donors, etc, etc.TheFiatLux said:mdbear said:I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.BearGreg said:
Students greet news with excitement
I said when we hired her she was going to surprise people. The great thing about someone of her age that comes in is they can stand up to their OWN side. That's what you need. And she's not angling for her next job so she doesn't have to be political. She can just do what she thinks is right. I won't agree with her on everything, but I sure do on most things. After the utter disaster that was Dirks, she is just what we needed. What a rare time at Cal where we got what we needed.
On top of that, she's a cool lady. She's genuine. And if you'd like to say hi to her in person, she's dropping by my graduation party tomorrow night, at a bar, which I think is pretty frickin' awesome.
Agree. We are so lucky.TheFiatLux said:mdbear said:I have got to hand it to Christ. Although she has an outstanding resume, I was a little skeptical when the university named someone her age as Chancellor (I work in higher education and it is very rare for a President or Chancellor to start a job in their 70's). Christ has taken the university out of financial crisis and cleaned up a lot of the messes created by her predecessor. The University is back on track, and that is no small accomplishment.BearGreg said:
Students greet news with excitement
I said when we hired her she was going to surprise people. The great thing about someone of her age that comes in is they can stand up to their OWN side. That's what you need. And she's not angling for her next job so she doesn't have to be political. She can just do what she thinks is right. I won't agree with her on everything, but I sure do on most things. After the utter disaster that was Dirks, she is just what we needed. What a rare time at Cal where we got what we needed.
On top of that, she's a cool lady. She's genuine. And if you'd like to say hi to her in person, she's dropping by my graduation party tomorrow night, at a bar, which I think is pretty frickin' awesome.
The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.Gunga la Gunga said:
As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.
It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.
I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
BearGoggles said:The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.Gunga la Gunga said:
As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.
It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.
I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
The fact that Cal is not (in the view of some) sufficiently diverse is not an indication of market failure for admissions (it arguably could be for faculty). The market (admissions standards) works as it is intended - particularly in light of Prop 209 which requires that the "market" for admissions not take into account ethnic/racial/gender.
Throwing money at diversity initiatives has virtually nothing to do with balancing the budget or raising funds. It might be a worthwhile thing to do depending on how you define and value diversity.
I read the press release- didn't watch the video.GMP said:BearGoggles said:The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.Gunga la Gunga said:
As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.
It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.
I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
The fact that Cal is not (in the view of some) sufficiently diverse is not an indication of market failure for admissions (it arguably could be for faculty). The market (admissions standards) works as it is intended - particularly in light of Prop 209 which requires that the "market" for admissions not take into account ethnic/racial/gender.
Throwing money at diversity initiatives has virtually nothing to do with balancing the budget or raising funds. It might be a worthwhile thing to do depending on how you define and value diversity.
Honest question, because I'm not going to watch the entire 42 minute video: Did you watch the video? Does she really connect these two issues? I see that they are back to back in an article summarizing a 42 minute discussion. It's not clear to me that she actually connected them as you suggest. If you did watch it, can you direct me to the point in he video where this occurs? If you didn't watch the video, I'd suggest that you should ensure she really did connect them before ranting about virtue signaling.
Edit: Because the way this article (not a press release as I believe you termed it) reads to me, she had what looks like a State of the Campus address, and she discussed a number of topics, including the fact the budget is balanced and including her goal to increase student body diversity. It doesn't read to me like she connected it.
I was the person who sincerely asked what defines Asian since my wife is Japanese and my kids are Happa. Of course we're all human beings, and part of being human is wanting what's best for one's kids while also wanting what's best for America. Sometimes, those desires are at odds. I agree that there needs to be some common sense here. I also graduated in 1980, so we're roughly the same age. When I was growing up in the US, South Asians weren't called Asian, they were called Indian or Pakistani. Asian really meant the Far East and Pacific Islanders. Israel, Iran, and Arab Nations were called the Middle East or Near East and there was no consideration of underrepresentation for natives of those countries. In fact, there were a lot of Iranian students at Cal before the 1978 Revolution, after which many returned to participate in the new country. I've often wondered how it worked out for those folks most of whom weren't very religious and thoroughly Westernized.calbear80 said:
WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS.
In one of the posts above someone asked who is Asian.
On a simplistic level, it is easy to find the answer. Just look at a world map. Whoever was born in Asia is Asian. Here are some examples:
. Anyone born in Japan: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in China: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in India: Asian (let the debate begin).
. Anyone born in Iran: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in USSR or Russia east of Ural Mountains: Asian (if you have travelled to eastern parts of Russia or the easteern former USSR Republics, you would agree).
. Anyone born in Israel: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in Saudi Arabia: Asian. (I would hate to think that evil Saudi Crown Prince MBS, is an Asian) (let the debate explode, but, according to all maps anything east of Suez Canal is in Asia).
. Steve Kerr (yes that Steve Kerr): Asian (remember, he was born in Beruit, Lebanon).
. Nick Kerr (Steve's son and former Cal Walk-on Basketball player): Is he Asian because his dad is Asian? (remember, most African Americans were not born in Africa, but, some of their ancestors were born in Africa, and as such, they are considered African Americans).
. If you look at a scientific map of human migration on earth*, you will see all humans started from somewhere in northeast Africa (please visit the 1.6 million year old skeleton of Turkana Boy in the Kenya's National Mesuem in Nairobi, simply amazing, even if not well presented).
. In the human migration map on earth* you will also see that Native Americans got to Americas after their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years and gratually migrated east and north before slowly passing through a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska and then spreading southward to Americas. Are Native Americans all Asians because their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years?
. 71Bear (a very thoughtful and informed poster) in a post above says we maybe all African Americans because, if you go far enough back, all of our ancestors came from the Rift Valley in Africa.
. Can all Asian Americans be considered African Americans because their ancestors (all of our ancestors) came from Rift Valley in Africa? I don't know.
Maybe Ward Connerly was right. He would say, like many other Americans, he is part European, part African, part Native American, part this and part that. So, he would say that it is not right to box him in only one particular ethnicity box.
We are all HUMAN BEINGS. We are all AMERICANS. Please stop trying to put us in boxes. Please stop dividing us.
Obviously, I am intentionally being very controversial in this post to start the debate during an otherwise slow Cal sports period (Cal MBB roster attribution and 2019 recruiting is simply too painful to talk About).
Now let the debate (attacks?) begin!
Go Bears!
* Several very good human migration maps are in the Museo Larco in Lima, Peru (as well as the most amazing unique museum of historic human sexuality/sex acts statues that I have ever seen anywhere in the world). There are some decent maps in the book Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. But, the best human migration map (with the dates of migration) is in the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari (I highly recommend all three).
P.S. I have travelled to around 10 African countries and it is amazing how in some of those countries the natives look just like southern Italians and Sicilians or Persians. Would you consider a person from Melilla, Spain (it is in Africa) an African? Would you consider someone from Cario, Egypt an African? How about someone from Marrakesh, Morocco? I had an Egyptian American as an employee and he was never counted as an African American in any of the statistics that we had to turn in.
P.S.S. Would you consider the Afrikaners (from South Africa who have lived in South Africa for three or four centuries) Africans and give them priority for admission to universities? I wouldn't. FYI: They look just like the people from Netherlands (that is where their ancestors are from) with white skin, blond/brown hair and blue/brown eyes and have lived a semi-privileged life compared to Black South Africans. For another example, remember South African Olympic Athlete (and now convicted murderer) Oscar Pistorius and his murdered girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp's ethnicity.
That's what I figured - at least you're honest. And no, it's not misleading. And yes, it's your fault - you read into it something that was not there, then went on a rant about it. That's your bad.BearGoggles said:I read the press release- didn't watch the video.GMP said:BearGoggles said:The goal of balancing the budget and raising capital funds is unrelated to the goal of promoting ethnic diversity. That is why it is bizarre. This is virtue signaling and pandering.Gunga la Gunga said:
As a well off white male, with well off white children, I can say unequivocally (for me and my kids) that the scales are tilted dramatically in our direction. It takes money to balance those scales.
It's a basic economic argument. If the market doesn't work efficiently, it takes money to make it work.
I don't find Chitst's juxtaposition bizarre, rather pragmatic.
The fact that Cal is not (in the view of some) sufficiently diverse is not an indication of market failure for admissions (it arguably could be for faculty). The market (admissions standards) works as it is intended - particularly in light of Prop 209 which requires that the "market" for admissions not take into account ethnic/racial/gender.
Throwing money at diversity initiatives has virtually nothing to do with balancing the budget or raising funds. It might be a worthwhile thing to do depending on how you define and value diversity.
Honest question, because I'm not going to watch the entire 42 minute video: Did you watch the video? Does she really connect these two issues? I see that they are back to back in an article summarizing a 42 minute discussion. It's not clear to me that she actually connected them as you suggest. If you did watch it, can you direct me to the point in he video where this occurs? If you didn't watch the video, I'd suggest that you should ensure she really did connect them before ranting about virtue signaling.
Edit: Because the way this article (not a press release as I believe you termed it) reads to me, she had what looks like a State of the Campus address, and she discussed a number of topics, including the fact the budget is balanced and including her goal to increase student body diversity. It doesn't read to me like she connected it.
And in my view, it is a press release, not an article. It is posted on the official Cal website written by an employee of UC Berkeley. That is a press release. If its misleading, I blame Cal.
juarezbear said:I was the person who sincerely asked what defines Asian since my wife is Japanese and my kids are Happa. Of course we're all human beings, and part of being human is wanting what's best for one's kids while also wanting what's best for America. Sometimes, those desires are at odds. I agree that there needs to be some common sense here. I also graduated in 1980, so we're roughly the same age. When I was growing up in the US, South Asians weren't called Asian, they were called Indian or Pakistani. Asian really meant the Far East and Pacific Islanders. Israel, Iran, and Arab Nations were called the Middle East or Near East and there was no consideration of underrepresentation for natives of those countries. In fact, there were a lot of Iranian students at Cal before the 1978 Revolution, after which many returned to participate in the new country. I've often wondered how it worked out for those folks most of whom weren't very religious and thoroughly Westernized.calbear80 said:
WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS.
In one of the posts above someone asked who is Asian.
On a simplistic level, it is easy to find the answer. Just look at a world map. Whoever was born in Asia is Asian. Here are some examples:
. Anyone born in Japan: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in China: Asian (we all can agree on this).
. Anyone born in India: Asian (let the debate begin).
. Anyone born in Iran: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in USSR or Russia east of Ural Mountains: Asian (if you have travelled to eastern parts of Russia or the easteern former USSR Republics, you would agree).
. Anyone born in Israel: Asian (let the debate continue).
. Anyone born in Saudi Arabia: Asian. (I would hate to think that evil Saudi Crown Prince MBS, is an Asian) (let the debate explode, but, according to all maps anything east of Suez Canal is in Asia).
. Steve Kerr (yes that Steve Kerr): Asian (remember, he was born in Beruit, Lebanon).
. Nick Kerr (Steve's son and former Cal Walk-on Basketball player): Is he Asian because his dad is Asian? (remember, most African Americans were not born in Africa, but, some of their ancestors were born in Africa, and as such, they are considered African Americans).
. If you look at a scientific map of human migration on earth*, you will see all humans started from somewhere in northeast Africa (please visit the 1.6 million year old skeleton of Turkana Boy in the Kenya's National Mesuem in Nairobi, simply amazing, even if not well presented).
. In the human migration map on earth* you will also see that Native Americans got to Americas after their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years and gratually migrated east and north before slowly passing through a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska and then spreading southward to Americas. Are Native Americans all Asians because their ancestors lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years?
. 71Bear (a very thoughtful and informed poster) in a post above says we maybe all African Americans because, if you go far enough back, all of our ancestors came from the Rift Valley in Africa.
. Can all Asian Americans be considered African Americans because their ancestors (all of our ancestors) came from Rift Valley in Africa? I don't know.
Maybe Ward Connerly was right. He would say, like many other Americans, he is part European, part African, part Native American, part this and part that. So, he would say that it is not right to box him in only one particular ethnicity box.
We are all HUMAN BEINGS. We are all AMERICANS. Please stop trying to put us in boxes. Please stop dividing us.
Obviously, I am intentionally being very controversial in this post to start the debate during an otherwise slow Cal sports period (Cal MBB roster attribution and 2019 recruiting is simply too painful to talk About).
Now let the debate (attacks?) begin!
Go Bears!
* Several very good human migration maps are in the Museo Larco in Lima, Peru (as well as the most amazing unique museum of historic human sexuality/sex acts statues that I have ever seen anywhere in the world). There are some decent maps in the book Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. But, the best human migration map (with the dates of migration) is in the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari (I highly recommend all three).
P.S. I have travelled to around 10 African countries and it is amazing how in some of those countries the natives look just like southern Italians and Sicilians or Persians. Would you consider a person from Melilla, Spain (it is in Africa) an African? Would you consider someone from Cario, Egypt an African? How about someone from Marrakesh, Morocco? I had an Egyptian American as an employee and he was never counted as an African American in any of the statistics that we had to turn in.
P.S.S. Would you consider the Afrikaners (from South Africa who have lived in South Africa for three or four centuries) Africans and give them priority for admission to universities? I wouldn't. FYI: They look just like the people from Netherlands (that is where their ancestors are from) with white skin, blond/brown hair and blue/brown eyes and have lived a semi-privileged life compared to Black South Africans. For another example, remember South African Olympic Athlete (and now convicted murderer) Oscar Pistorius and his murdered girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp's ethnicity.
I was on the special action admissions committee for two years, right before the Bakke Decision. I think we can all agree that African Americans continue to be woefully underrepresented on the Berkeley Campus, and i'm always annoyed when folks like Clarence Thomas oppose affirmative action when they themselves have benefitted from it.
As for South Africa, my sister's neighbor in San Diego was a white immigrant from Joberg who applied to college as an African American and raised a lot of eyebrows when they showed up at UCLA.