I might be all alone here, but it seemed like Garbers' arm was anything but strong when he was playing last season. I thought the few longer passes that he threw came up short -- so much so that I thought he might've had a minor injury.

If his arm strength is looking good, that's a huge plus over 2018 all by itself.

Having both Garbers & Modster able to move the chains will be a significant improvement.

I think we have to put 2018 in context. The impact of Ross Bowers' injury was severe, and the lack of an experienced, reliable backup hurt the entire team.

For 2019, the potential improvement at the QB position alone over 2018 is staggering. Imagine having the same QBs for Spring, Fall Camp, AND the regular season!

The offense might not be in the top 1/3 of the conference, but having them in the middle 1/3 might be good enough for 8 or 9 wins.

August excitement!! GO BEARS!!!!

cbbass1 said:

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I might be all alone here, but it seemed like Garbers' arm was anything but strong when he was playing last season. I thought the few longer passes that he threw came up short -- so much so that I thought he might've had a minor injury.

If his arm strength is looking good, that's a huge plus over 2018 all by itself.

Having both Garbers & Modster able to move the chains will be a significant improvement.

I think we have to put 2018 in context. The impact of Ross Bowers' injury was severe, and the lack of an experienced, reliable backup hurt the entire team.

For 2019, the potential improvement at the QB position alone over 2018 is staggering. Imagine having the same QBs for Spring, Fall Camp, AND the regular season!

The offense might not be in the top 1/3 of the conference, but having them in the middle 1/3 might be good enough for 8 or 9 wins.

August excitement!! GO BEARS!!!!

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I was never impressed with the arm strength (or lack thereof) shown by either Bowers or Garbers). I keep replaying in my mind the poor pass thrown by Bowers against Stanfurd in 2017 toward the end of the game. The Cal receiver was open with a clear path to a TD but the ball fell about 4 or 5 yards short and was intercepted.

On the other hand I was impressed with the arm strength shown by Modster.

I hope that Garbers has built up his arm strength over the past 8 months.
If not, I hope that Modster can step right in and take over the starting job.

I'm hoping Garber's arm strength is much improved. It wasn't just his deep ball, but I don't remember mid-range passes thrown with much zip. I can't say that is completely chalked up to inexperience. If he worked on throwing mechanics and he's come back strong that would be a really good thing for us. Ross didn't have much of a deep ball, but one thing he did well at least in 2017 was have good zip on 7-15 yard throws. That's how we moved the ball then. The offense was much more efficient, even though not great, in 2017.

That said, I still put several losses (Arizona, Wazzu and TCU) directly at Baldwin's feet. It was his inexplicable play calling or personnel decisions in key situations during those games, that directly led to our losses. That had nothing to do with Garber's arm strength or lack of overall talent. It was an offensive coordinator's weird penchant for forcing stuff that didn't need to be forced, esp. when the defense was winning the game for you. Hopefully our QB play is so much better that we're not backed into having to make forced decisions like that.

cbbass1 said:

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I might be all alone here, but it seemed like Garbers' arm was anything but strong when he was playing last season. I thought the few longer passes that he threw came up short -- so much so that I thought he might've had a minor injury.

If his arm strength is looking good, that's a huge plus over 2018 all by itself.

Having both Garbers & Modster able to move the chains will be a significant improvement.

I think we have to put 2018 in context. The impact of Ross Bowers' injury was severe, and the lack of an experienced, reliable backup hurt the entire team.

For 2019, the potential improvement at the QB position alone over 2018 is staggering. Imagine having the same QBs for Spring, Fall Camp, AND the regular season! [You mean, like Oregon, stanfurd, u$C, etc. ]

The offense might not be in the top 1/3 of the conference, but having them in the middle 1/3 might be good enough for 8 or 9 wins.

August excitement!! GO BEARS!!!!

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So what is considered a long throw? 50-60 yard bombs? I don't think garbers can throw accurate passes over 30 yards so I'm of the opinion that if modstre can't beat this guy out, we are in big trouble. Can anyone recall a QB working on his strength in the off-season and comes back able to throw accurately 30-50% further than the previous year's "long throws"? My bigger question is that wouldn't this inability to throw the deep ball easily spotted in high school? The field isn't any longer in college.

GivemTheAxe said:

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cbbass1 said:

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I might be all alone here, but it seemed like Garbers' arm was anything but strong when he was playing last season. I thought the few longer passes that he threw came up short -- so much so that I thought he might've had a minor injury.

If his arm strength is looking good, that's a huge plus over 2018 all by itself.

Having both Garbers & Modster able to move the chains will be a significant improvement.

I think we have to put 2018 in context. The impact of Ross Bowers' injury was severe, and the lack of an experienced, reliable backup hurt the entire team.

For 2019, the potential improvement at the QB position alone over 2018 is staggering. Imagine having the same QBs for Spring, Fall Camp, AND the regular season!

The offense might not be in the top 1/3 of the conference, but having them in the middle 1/3 might be good enough for 8 or 9 wins.

August excitement!! GO BEARS!!!!

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I was never impressed with the arm strength (or lack thereof) shown by either Bowers or Garbers). I keep replaying in my mind the poor pass thrown by Bowers against Stanfurd in 2017 toward the end of the game. The Cal receiver was open with a clear path to a TD but the ball fell about 4 or 5 yards short and was intercepted.

On the other hand I was impressed with the arm strength shown by Modster.

I hope that Garbers has built up his arm strength over the past 8 months.
If not, I hope that Modster can step right in and take over the starting job.

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EDIT: my grandma is 97.

Neither has a strong arm. Bowers throws like my 92 year old grandma despite some pundits who claimed he had a strong arm. Garber is a little better but not much.

Bear19 said:

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fat_slice said:

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I don't think garbers can throw accurate passes over 30 yards so I'm of the opinion that if modstre can't beat this guy out, we are in big trouble.

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If the California Golden Blogs & BI Fall Camp updates are correct

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Nobody at CGB is impartial enough to be trusted. There are certain fans whose practice reports I have learned to trust over the years.

If our O is indeed in the middle 1/3 of PAC-12 and if one of our two top NGs on D return, we are good for 7 (or maybe even 8) regular season wins. That would be a huge O improvement over last year considering the personnel in O this year. I am hopeful, but, honestly, not overly optimistic.

Go Bears!

Modster has not been cleared by the Ncaa to play. We are Cal.

Cal_79 said:

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oskidunker said:

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Modster has not been cleared by the Ncaa to play. We are Cal.

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The near-constant expressions of loser mentality by some on this board are ridiculous...

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Especially when the issue at hand is a non-starter. Modster will not miss any more than a couple games (assuming the NCAA rules against Cal).

Been following since 1968. Not too many winning seasons.

I had the same observation on Garber's arm strength. Seemed weaker than Bowers, who was weaker than Mcllwain.

It certainly matters on some number of throws he has to make daily, but I'm more concerned with his accuracy, timing and decision making, which at times was very poor. Under optimal circumstances where a play works out, he did Ok.

GBear4Life said:

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I had the same observation on Garber's arm strength. Seemed weaker than Bowers, who was weaker than Mcllwain.

It certainly matters on some number of throws he has to make daily, but I'm more concerned with his accuracy, timing and decision making, which at times was very poor. Under optimal circumstances where a play works out, he did Ok.

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Geez, Garbers was just a fr and tossed into the breach quite suddenly. Granted, he played all fall camp, but c'mon.

And, you're saying that McI had the strongest arm of the 3? Have you watched film?

Garbers will have a full chance to perform this fall. By half way in, we'll know what he's got. Maybe by the 3rd week, if Modster isn't qual'd til then.

My only hope is that BB will give either one of them (whoever he chooses) plenty of continuous playing time. Subbing Garbers and McI in and out all the time drove me crazy. He should pick one and give him a good long chance.

BMac definitely had the strongest arm.

Rushinbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I had the same observation on Garber's arm strength. Seemed weaker than Bowers, who was weaker than Mcllwain.

It certainly matters on some number of throws he has to make daily, but I'm more concerned with his accuracy, timing and decision making, which at times was very poor. Under optimal circumstances where a play works out, he did Ok.

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And, you're saying that McI had the strongest arm of the 3? Have you watched film?

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I went to a couple games. The balls over the middle that McIlwain threw were thrown with a lot of zip. It was clearly noticeable and thrown a lot harder than the same passes thrown by Bowers or Garber. Maybe he threw them too hard. This doesn't mean he had more arm strength, but it means he did throw the 20 yard pass into tight coverage quite hard, maybe too hard, but It was impressive. McIlwain's problems were more about control, accuracy, throwing a catchable ball, and decision-making, at least in the games I saw in person.

BearNakedLadies said:

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cbbass1 said:

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I might be all alone here, but it seemed like Garbers' arm was anything but strong when he was playing last season. I thought the few longer passes that he threw came up short -- so much so that I thought he might've had a minor injury.

If his arm strength is looking good, that's a huge plus over 2018 all by itself.

Having both Garbers & Modster able to move the chains will be a significant improvement.

I think we have to put 2018 in context. The impact of Ross Bowers' injury was severe, and the lack of an experienced, reliable backup hurt the entire team.

For 2019, the potential improvement at the QB position alone over 2018 is staggering. Imagine having the same QBs for Spring, Fall Camp, AND the regular season!

The offense might not be in the top 1/3 of the conference, but having them in the middle 1/3 might be good enough for 8 or 9 wins.

August excitement!! GO BEARS!!!!

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When you guys talk about young QB's, you care about all the wrong things. You don't have to be a future NFL QB to be an effective college QB, but arm strength is the least important of those things.

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I'm sorry, BNL, but this is a clich statement and it is based on the fact that you have lots of Jeff George's who suck and Joe Montana's who are good. But Joe had a good arm, certainly for college. What is accurate is that having an uber strong arm is not that important. Having a sufficiently strong arm is VERY important. Bowers' arm strength would have hampered him, though he had enough to make it work. We've seen past guys who may have made very good QB's if they had reasonable arm strength.

I think Garbers is in the category of it being a detriment. I think he can still be serviceable. I'm dubious he can be in one offseason.

We will be better by virtue of not trying the BMac experiment, but I think that experiment is indicative of what the staff thought of the other options. Personally, I think our offense is effed if Modster isn't good enough to take the job. Which means with our defense we can still pull 7 wins, but people won't be happy. Of course, developing a running game would help also, another thing I'll have to wait until I see it to believe it.

What ever happened to the the yearly Kool-Aid quaffing here every Fall?

SFCityBear said:

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I went to a couple games. The balls over the middle that McIlwain threw were thrown with a lot of zip. It was clearly noticeable and thrown a lot harder than the same passes thrown by Bowers or Garber. Maybe he threw them too hard. This doesn't mean he had more arm strength, but it means he did throw the 20 yard pass into tight coverage quite hard, maybe too hard, but It was impressive. McIlwain's problems were more about control, accuracy, throwing a catchable ball, and decision-making, at least in the games I saw in person.

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I watched all B Mac's games, and I recall his accuracy being above average (or rather simply better than Garbers).

His problem was decision making. Knowing when to throw. And throwing it to the other team. He was reckless. Take the Zona game. He was having a tremendous game. He made a lot of good runs and throws, and was singlehandedly keeping us in the game. It was about 5-7 throws that completely ruined the game and his performance.

If he could figure out how not be so reckless and sink his team with a handful of bad throws, he'd be an all conference QB.

Rushinbear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I had the same observation on Garber's arm strength. Seemed weaker than Bowers, who was weaker than Mcllwain.

It certainly matters on some number of throws he has to make daily, but I'm more concerned with his accuracy, timing and decision making, which at times was very poor. Under optimal circumstances where a play works out, he did Ok.

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Geez, Garbers was just a fr and tossed into the breach quite suddenly. Granted, he played all fall camp, but c'mon.

And, you're saying that McI had the strongest arm of the 3? Have you watched film?

Garbers will have a full chance to perform this fall. By half way in, we'll know what he's got. Maybe by the 3rd week, if Modster isn't qual'd til then.

My only hope is that BB will give either one of them (whoever he chooses) plenty of continuous playing time. Subbing Garbers and McI in and out all the time drove me crazy. He should pick one and give him a good long chance.

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I'm not ruling out positive development from Garbers. In fact I'm expecting it. I think mid-tier Pac QB is feasible potential for him.

I don't know how people are presuming an increase in arm strength though.

A QB needs to have arm strength sufficient to hit on or close to, but definitely not underthrow, at least a couple of deep routes during a game, and/or out routes to the wide side, enough to let the opposing DBs know they can't just tighten up on everything without concern, which makes the other elements, timing, accuracy, etc. that much more difficult. It can add to the challenge for a challenged offense.

Pretty sure that the BI staff, last year, based on their observations, ranked the QBs 1. BMac... 2. Bowers... and 3. Garbers, in terms of arm strength.

A fully grown young man, who has years of throwing experience, pretty much is stuck with (or blessed with) the arm strength that they have. Maybe some "mechanics tweaks", or throwing with more confidence, gives him a little more zip on the ball, but that's about it. Just as an example from a different sport, as Barry Bonds bulked up, he could hit the ball farther, but it didn't help his throwing arm one bit.

"A fully grown young man, who has years of throwing experience, pretty much is stuck with (or blessed with) the arm strength that they have. Maybe some "mechanics tweaks", or throwing with more confidence, gives him a little more zip on the ball, but that's about it."

I'm not sure. It seems to me that young men between the ages of 18 and 22 often undergo significant, year-to-year physical development, especially when under a sophisticated training regimen. I hope that's true in Garbers case.

kirklandblue said:

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A QB needs to have arm strength sufficient to hit on or close to, but definitely not underthrow, at least a couple of deep routes during a game, and/or out routes to the wide side, enough to let the opposing DBs know they can't just tighten up on everything without concern, which makes the other elements, timing, accuracy, etc. that much more difficult. It can add to the challenge for a challenged offense.

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Just talking about McI's arm strength, not whether a serviceable college qb needs a great arm.

And, I hate to opine on someone who has left the team, but, you watch his motion on those throws that had plenty of zip on them (shall we say), but were well off in accuracy/timing. He's throwing it as hard as he can, often pulling his head down trying to put everything on it. At some of those times, he pulled his head so hard to the side that he wasn't looking at his target or anywhere near.

By Game Two, we'll know whether Garbers has strengthened his arm over the off season. As someone said, the arm you got is the arm you got - maybe can improve by 10% or so through training. From what I saw last year, I say he has adequate strength for our system, adequate. But, with that must come timing, accuracy, savvy. Jury's out.

brcal69 said:

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"A fully grown young man, who has years of throwing experience, pretty much is stuck with (or blessed with) the arm strength that they have. Maybe some "mechanics tweaks", or throwing with more confidence, gives him a little more zip on the ball, but that's about it."

I'm not sure. It seems to me that young men between the ages of 18 and 22 often undergo significant, year-to-year physical development, especially when under a sophisticated training regimen. I hope that's true in Garbers case.

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Young men in that age bracket gain a lot of size and strength, to be sure, but lots less improvement in the throwing arm, I believe (unless they haven't thrown before, or come in with mechanical flaws that can be fixed).

I'm tossing out anecdotal evidence here, which doesn't prove jack, but I remember seeing John Elway throw in warm-ups, when he was a skinny freshman at Furd. I was paying attention, because he came in with the "rocket" reputation. He probably weighed 190 then, compared to 220-230 in the NFL. The ball came out of his hand like a Tiger Woods drive and I think the receivers were getting the "Elway cross", even then. It was amazing.

It was his head not his arm...he would hesitate and then make a poor decision

It was injuries on the offensive line causing him to run for his life

It was Lairds injury -leaving him at 70%

It was injuries to WR's-especially Noa and Duncan

It was Baldwin's play calling-(does he still refuse to use play charts and tendencies and call plays from his gut?)

It was Wilcox dialing back the offense to limit turnovers (he like all of us was exhausted by the turnovers)

Result-Cal was totally predictable and did few things well on offense.

And now Modster might not be eligible?

OaktownBear said:

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BearNakedLadies said:

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cbbass1 said:

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When you guys talk about young QB's, you care about all the wrong things. You don't have to be a future NFL QB to be an effective college QB, but arm strength is the least important of those things.

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I'm sorry, BNL, but this is a clich statement and it is based on the fact that you have lots of Jeff George's who suck and Joe Montana's who are good.

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Forget about Joe Montana, who was an NFL QB. Would you be satisfied with Jake Browning?

XXXBEAR said:

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It was his head not his arm...he would hesitate and then make a poor decision

It was injuries on the offensive line causing him to run for his life

It was Lairds injury -leaving him at 70%

It was injuries to WR's-especially Noa and Duncan

It was Baldwin's play calling-(does he still refuse to use play charts and tendencies and call plays from his gut?)

It was Wilcox dialing back the offense to limit turnovers (he like all of us was exhausted by the turnovers)

Result-Cal was totally predictable and did few things well on offense.

And now Modster might not be eligible?

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Agree. The interceptions (by all the QBs) were largely due to our QBs trying to force balls to guys who weren't open. Garbers showed the best judgement, but still threw a few he shouldn't have.

The bigger issue is why were our receivers never open? (Noa emerged as our best WR because he could catch in traffic, though he paid the price).

Arm strength is most important when you have fast receivers running deep routes and the OL gives the QB plenty of time, which did not apply to last year's team.

calumnus said:

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XXXBEAR said:

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It was his head not his arm...he would hesitate and then make a poor decision

It was injuries on the offensive line causing him to run for his life

It was Lairds injury -leaving him at 70%

It was injuries to WR's-especially Noa and Duncan

It was Baldwin's play calling-(does he still refuse to use play charts and tendencies and call plays from his gut?)

It was Wilcox dialing back the offense to limit turnovers (he like all of us was exhausted by the turnovers)

Result-Cal was totally predictable and did few things well on offense.

And now Modster might not be eligible?

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Agree. The interceptions (by all the QBs) were largely due to our QBs trying to force balls to guys who weren't open. Garbers showed the best judgement, but still threw a few he shouldn't have.

The bigger issue is why were our receivers never open? (Noa emerged as our best WR because he could catch in traffic, though he paid the price).

Arm strength is most important when you have fast receivers running deep routes and the OL gives the QB plenty of time, which did not apply to last year's team.

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I mostly agree but would like to make one suggestion. I have not been to an open practice this year, so this observation is mostly based on being at practice last year (although it appears it is happening this year as well based on video but on video I don't know who the QB is).

The QBs, in general, throw the ball after the receiver has made his break, sometimes 2 steps or more after. They should be coached to throw on the break and to the spot the receiver should be 1 to 1.5 steps after the break. So I feel this is on the coaches. And if one agrees that the top QBs don't have strong arms all the more important it is to throw on the break. They practice all Spring and PRPs when this should be ironed out: pattern, break. And the reality is at this level a majority of passes will be contested.

XXXBEAR said:

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It was Wilcox dialing back the offense to limit turnovers (he like all of us was exhausted by the turnovers)

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A fully justified decision. When the offense is suspect and you count on the defense to keep you competitive in games, the last thing you need is too many turnovers leading to your defense constantly defending possessions that start in their own half of the field.

Limiting turnovers is going to have to be an emphasis this season as well. We all hope for greatly improved QB play this season, but even if that happens, this won't be an offense that often puts 30 points on the board. The defense is going to have to keep the opponents' score down, and the offense has to at least help out the defense by limiting the number of opponent possessions that begin in great field position.

oskidunker said:

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Been following since 1968. Not too many winning seasons.

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the 2000s must have sucked for you.

Bobodeluxe said:

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What ever happened to the the yearly Kool-Aid quaffing here every Fall?

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Chase Garbers --> Aaron Rodgers --> Jared Goff