82gradDLSdad said:

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bonsallbear said:

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I don't necessarily disagree with you but I still want to see what he can do with two weeks of practice and preparation. A patch work offensive line and second string QB need a limited playbook and a good scheme to compete. I'm not looking for 35 points but I am looking for consistency and 300+ yards.

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You are too nice. He had a month for the cheese bowl. He said we looked good, corners were being turned, light bulbs were going on, etc. Then we had our worst offensive game...ever.
I think we can do a lot better.

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I'm leaning your way, but... Few thought that CG would catch fire as he did and now most would be happy to have him back and healthy. What would be the measure by which we could look at BB and the O in the same way? What % incr in yds, yds/play, points, 2nd half pts., etc., the rest of the way?

Suppose it goes OSU - W, UU - L. Then, all bets are off. Do you see 3 more thereafter? Would that do it? 2 more? I see W's as WSU, Fraud and ucla. Maybe subst SC for WSU. Or, just Fraud and clau.

Uthaithani said:

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BancroftBear93 said:

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He is holding this program back. He was a good head coach at EWU, but he is a ****ty OC at Cal. I think he needs to go back down to G5 as a head coach and work his way back up as a HC. Don't go the OC route Beau, it's not your strength and there is more than one way to the top. You are a CEO, so play to your strengths. You need to be well rounded.

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Yep. It's his offense. And it sucks.

It's his talent, his recruits, his player development. And every year there's not enough talent and depth.

It's his plays, his play calling, his management of the games. And it sucks.

Cal - again - has the worst offense in the Pac 12, BY FAR. Bottom line, Baldwin is the worst OC in the Pac 12. That's not an opinion, it's an objective fact. And there are no excuses. It's his offense and it sucks. It's sucked every year he's coached. That means he sucks as a coach. Period.

Stop making excuses. He needs to go. We should do what WSU does and get rid of bad coordinators mid-season, don't wait. The interim coach can't do any worse.

And Wilcox needs to get it through his thick head that football is offense and defense and stop focusing on just one side of the ball. He's a head coach, not a coordinator and he needs to start coaching like one.

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Well said!

LunchTime said:

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calgo430 said:

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the play calling is very conservative. its not winning and its boring

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Modster just couldn't come within 5 yards of a completion.

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He is also the QB coach

fat_slice said:

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LunchTime said:

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calgo430 said:

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the play calling is very conservative. its not winning and its boring

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Modster just couldn't come within 5 yards of a completion.

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He is also the QB coach

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Irrelevant

Quote:

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play calling is very conservative

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It is not conservative. The players not making plays <> conservative playcalling.

I have no issue with saying his position coaching is bad, or that his play calling ignores his teams abilities, but let's stick to actual faults, not fantasy.

His play calling is absolutely not conservative. It is mind blowingly aggressive without execution. We would be MUCH better off with conservative play calling than the three straight wasted aggressive plays that amount to zero yards and a punt.

The problem is people see an incomplete pass or reverse for a loss as neutral plays, runs up the middle as conservative and long gains as aggressive. That isn't how it works.

My problem with Baldwin is he has never grasped his players abilities in general or in-game when calling plays. Probably his absolute best series of the year was the all-runs TD drive, because he saw what worked and stuck with it. Conservative AF, but what works works. Cal would not have done better with three aggressive bombs that hit the grass and a punt there.

calumnus said:

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Rushinbear said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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bonsallbear said:

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I don't necessarily disagree with you but I still want to see what he can do with two weeks of practice and preparation. A patch work offensive line and second string QB need a limited playbook and a good scheme to compete. I'm not looking for 35 points but I am looking for consistency and 300+ yards.

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You are too nice. He had a month for the cheese bowl. He said we looked good, corners were being turned, light bulbs were going on, etc. Then we had our worst offensive game...ever.
I think we can do a lot better.

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I'm leaning your way, but... Few thought that CG would catch fire as he did and now most would be happy to have him back and healthy. What would be the measure by which we could look at BB and the O in the same way? What % incr in yds, yds/play, points, 2nd half pts., etc., the rest of the way?

Suppose it goes OSU - W, UU - L. Then, all bets are off. Do you see 3 more thereafter? Would that do it? 2 more? I see W's as WSU, Fraud and ucla. Maybe subst SC for WSU. Or, just Fraud and clau.

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People here complained about Bowers until we lost him. Then losing him was the excuse. People here complained about Garbers until we lost him, then losing him was the excuse.

I've said all along Chase Garbers was not the problem. His QB rating this year is 148. Not just the last game. Only Goff and Rodgers have been better on the season. We have three good running backs. Yet we have the #114 offense, #12 in the Pac-12 for the third year in a row. And this immediately following 3 years of being top 10 in the country, with the young line and all of our 4 and 5 star QBs and WRs returning and another 4 star QB committed. Then this staff got a 5 star QB transfer.

Yes, after playing in Baldwin's offense, most of those 4 and 5 star players left. So that somehow excuses Baldwin? Then he fails to adjust to what he has left. Laird emerged as great runner and MCMorris a devastating blocker and pass catcher a real difference maker a guy that can help sustain drives. He stuck with a passing spread as our primary offense even though he claims to be "multiple." McMorris rarely saw the field for 2 years as Cal fans complained about our QBs and lack of talent.

I really think this offense can be at least average with the players we have and either Garbers or Modster at QB. As I have believed for three years, we should be a running team (including pitches outside to Dancy and Collins) with playaction passing. We need misdirection, not dazzle dazzle. Hopefully we turn the corner against OSU.

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I posted that Garbers was on pace with Cal's great QBs for the same number of games.

Garbers was clearly growing as a QB.

And TBH, I think the people shi++ing on Garbers were posting that opinion right until he got hurt. Who specifically was in the "Garbage" camp before that is in the "Excuse" camp now?

Most of what I see is people ridiculing those posters with "who still wants Modster." Those posts exist because those knuckleheads were still dumping on Garbers right to the end, even in his good games.

fat_slice said:

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It's totally relevant - none of our QBs can throw the ball well despite being pretty darn good recruits. No evidence these guys are getting coached up, like our linebackers are.

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Not to his comment. You see how I quoted his comment. That is because I was replying specifically to his comment.

It is completely irrelevant to what he said about conservative playcalling and my response to that comment.

That is why I quoted his comment. Because my comment was in response to his comment. Not to my feeling on Baldwin or his ability to play call or position coach.

That is how it is irrelevant. If you would like to point out that Baldwin is incapable of position coaching, that is relevant to the thread, but not my response to his specific comment.

That is why I quoted his comment.

Dduster said:

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Not a Baldwin Fan but You guys need to stop making claims about losing 'top tier' talent at WR. None of the trio of Noa, Robertson or Shovel have done much of anything at their new Teams. I think we have the constant condition of star inflation for really mediocre talent here at Cal. Noa, 7 receptions 74 yards total and 1 TD. Stoval has similar 7 receptions with 63 yards and no TD's. Next receiver above Stoval in receptions is 301 yards. He didn't make the Travel Roster to play Nevada. Robertson at Georgia has 12 receptions for 153 total and two TD's. Georgia knows what a 5 star player is. It doesn't look like Robertson has that distinction there. More time? Let's get some true talent at WR and stop putting out false claims of talent. We haven't lost next to anything from the numbers.

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Very good take. Robertson and Stovall would have stretched the field, but you are right they have been nothing but disappointments compared to the talent they seem to have. Noa was getting clobbered while here so maybe it was good to get into a different offense. But none of these guys would have guaranteed any better result. You still need an accurate QB and good playcalling.

I am most critical of BB and our offense for the 2018 season. The rotating of QBs I found to be detrimental to the team and ideally to the development of one of them. I get that we lost Bowers, a QB who gained valuable experience in 2017 and who was getting better, but the offensive decisions made in 2018 and the production that year, simply horrible. The mystery of the Bowers departure concerning. That's all on BB, and of course JW too. For the 2017 and 2019 seasons, I find justification in the offensive progress and comparative results.

I made it clear earlier that I want to see where we are after at the end of the season. We are at the halfway point now. We all noticed improvement in QB play and the offense before Garbers went down. There were glimpses in quarters and halves in the earlier games that lent some hope; and it materialized further.

In CG's last two games:

Completion rate = 68%
TD/INT = 5:1
Yards/attempt = 10+
Rating = 180+

Those numbers are actually pretty darn good, impressive even. QB play and decision-making can obviously be very impactful to an offense's production. Stating the obvious, I imagine.

The offense managed 6.28 yds/play against Ole Miss. In the first half against ASU, through five plays into the last drive of the first half, when CG left the game, our yards per play was at 6.36. For CG's last two games at QB, the offense was doing about 6.3 yards per play. For reference, 6.3 yards per play is an average one now in the Pac-12, which of course includes a fair share of cupcake games from earlier in the season. For additional and maybe more meaningful reference, the last few seasons, 6.3 yards per play was good enough for 2nd to 4th best in conference games. The offense was indeed showing signs of improvement and being effective moving the ball.

The conversion of 3rd downs is imperative in keeping drives going, and ultimately getting points on the board. In CG's last two games, 6 quarters basically, the offense he led converted 50% of its 3rd downs (9/18). For reference, at this point in 2019, 50% would be good for 3rd in the Pac-12. That of course includes quite a few lesser defenses from the earlier games. In looking at previous seasons, 50% would top the conference. Not saying a CG-led offense would maintain such through the season of course, but it's another indication, like yards/play, that the offense was improving and actually showing some favorable signs. Ole Miss and ASU defenses are on par to better than what Cal will be seeing the remainder of the season. ASU is currently 2nd best in the Pac-12 in yards/play allowed, 25th nationally.

I noted earlier the improvements in Bowers in 2017. He had a not so shabby 61% completion rate in his last eight games (Pac-12 foes). Looking at seasonal averages, that completion rate is above average, typically top 40. His last three games saw passes completed at 68%. For November 2017 games, Bowers was 12th in FBS with that completion rate. Over those final eight games, Bowers got 15 TD versus just 4 INTs. That's quite impressive, nearly 4:1, especially for a QB who had not previously thrown a college pass prior to the season. While some refused to see it, Bowers was developing pretty nicely and the offense was showing signs of improvement. In the back half of the 2017 season (Pac-12 games) Cal scored just under 32 PPG, which is about average, a little above actually. Yards per play had picked-up from the bottom of the conference in Oct 2017 games to 8th in November games.

I'm of the firm belief that continuity at QB would have produced continued offensive improvement this season too. It was trending that way. With that, here we are again breaking-in another Cal QB. With a 1.5 games in this offense under his belt, and previous experience at UCLA a couple years ago, I imagine Modster will also pick-up his game and the offense. Completion rates of 36 and 50%, a TD/INT of 1:3 is why the offense seriously regressed recently. Modster looks to be plenty talented and those numbers, and the offense should improve quite a bit. Half a season is what we have, and it's plenty of time.

If not, I can objectively be critical of BB and be open to change at OC. I however think, based upon past examples in Bowers and Garbers, BB gets things back on track, trending the right way.

Again, I'm no BB fan, and I don't know the guy personally. I'm a very objective, data-driven person, looking at the overall and trends, and I let such metrics support or refute my subjective take. For me, I see indications that BB can put together at least an average Pac-12 offense, with continuity at QB, even with the current roster. Bowers, Garbers and Modster are likely no Goff, but imagine if our BB offense had the same starting QB for three seasons. I believe there would be no such threads about our offense and BB.

Six more games, regular season ones...

BancroftBear93 said:

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He is holding this program back. He was a good head coach at EWU, but he is a ****ty OC at Cal. I think he needs to go back down to G5 as a head coach and work his way back up as a HC. Don't go the OC route Beau, it's not your strength and there is more than one way to the top. You are a CEO, so play to your strengths. You need to be well rounded.

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Did you seriously just realize this? LOL

baldwin forever??. sorry the cheeze it bowl and the oregon game negate that premise. yes we have a 2nd string ab and a beat up offensive line but give me a break.

The Buffs, with a very veteran QB, completed just 56% of his passes yesterday against the Duck D. He also had four INTs. The Buffs got just 4 yards per play, just like us last week, with Modster's first start as a Bear. The Duck D is very good.

I read on a recent post that E.W.'s success was a result of their O.C. The team knew that Baldwin was not very good at X's and O's. Can't remember the O.C.'s name, but he is now the H.C. of Eastern Washington.

Someone explain to me why Baldwin was not vetted more???

RDB73 said:

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I read on a recent post that E.W.'s success was a result of their O.C. The team knew that Baldwin was not very good at X's and O's. Can't remember the O.C.'s name, but he is now the H.C. of Eastern Washington.

Someone explain to me why Baldwin was not vetted more???

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Suppose you have just been hired as the hc and told how much you have to spend for an oc, after negotiations. You would know, not only personally, but professionally (schemewise, etc.), just about every oc possibility in the country. You may end up being personally responsible for your selection (meaning your job), so you better be sure.

Would you stand for anyone else telling you the strengths and weaknesses of your top 5, say? Will they be accountable for your losses? Will they know more about all these guys than you?

My guess is that JW knew enough about hc'ing to say in the interview that he would have sole determination of his staff or find someone else. He would want a yes or no right on the spot and be prepared to get up and walk out. If he had even an inkling that Cal might want to stick their nose into it, he'd ask directly, right then.

We don't know. BB may not have been his first choice. He's our guy until he isn't.

westcoast101 said:

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BancroftBear93 said:

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He is holding this program back. He was a good head coach at EWU, but he is a ****ty OC at Cal. I think he needs to go back down to G5 as a head coach and work his way back up as a HC. Don't go the OC route Beau, it's not your strength and there is more than one way to the top. You are a CEO, so play to your strengths. You need to be well rounded.

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Did you seriously just realize this? LOL

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Apparently before you did. When did you chime in, bleacher seats?

Goobear said:

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RDB73 said:

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I read on a recent post that E.W.'s success was a result of their O.C. The team knew that Baldwin was not very good at X's and O's. Can't remember the O.C.'s name, but he is now the H.C. of Eastern Washington.

Someone explain to me why Baldwin was not vetted more???

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Can someone explain why one believes a poster about that stuff?

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Because . . . actual result on the field? I know that's crazy, but just throwing it out there.

BancroftBear93 said:

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Goobear said:

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RDB73 said:

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I read on a recent post that E.W.'s success was a result of their O.C. The team knew that Baldwin was not very good at X's and O's. Can't remember the O.C.'s name, but he is now the H.C. of Eastern Washington.

Someone explain to me why Baldwin was not vetted more???

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Can someone explain why one believes a poster about that stuff?

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Because . . . actual result on the field? I know that's crazy, but just throwing it out there.

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The actual result on the field when Baldwin coached Eastern Washington?

The offensive coordinator for those teams may in fact be the brains behind some of their offensive success or not. It doesn't matter to me. I don't need hearsay from a message board poster about what an Eastern Washington fan thinks. I've got 2.5 seasons of watching Faux Baldwin's offense and that's plenty of info for me.

Pigskin Pete said:

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BancroftBear93 said:

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Goobear said:

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RDB73 said:

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I read on a recent post that E.W.'s success was a result of their O.C. The team knew that Baldwin was not very good at X's and O's. Can't remember the O.C.'s name, but he is now the H.C. of Eastern Washington.

Someone explain to me why Baldwin was not vetted more???

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Can someone explain why one believes a poster about that stuff?

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Because . . . actual result on the field? I know that's crazy, but just throwing it out there.

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The actual result on the field when Baldwin coached Eastern Washington?

The offensive coordinator for those teams may in fact be the brains behind some of their offensive success or not. It doesn't matter to me. I don't need hearsay from a message board poster about what an Eastern Washington fan thinks. I've got 2.5 seasons of watching Faux Baldwin's offense and that's plenty of info for me.

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We're on the same page.

Beau, if we don't lick the Beavers by at least 24, I'm coming for you.

BancroftBear93 said:

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Beau, if we don't lick the Beavers by at least 24, I'm coming for you.

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With this offense, I don't think we can beat anybody by 24 points.