nice to get another sollid QB commit, even if on the short side LOL

And he was offered by an MWC team (never mind that he had an offer from 'bama as well).

The headline in the article read "big quarterback", which to me would imply 6-4 at least.

On the other hand when it comes to quarterbacks, size isn't everything.

Anyone remember Brock Mansion?

SFCityBear said:

---

The headline in the article read "big quarterback", which to me would imply 6-4 at least.

On the other hand when it comes to quarterbacks, size isn't everything.

Anyone remember Brock Mansion?

---

Obviously, it is preferable to have the QB stand 6'2" or taller. However, if the guy can move around effectively and throw the ball accurately while outside the pocket, there is no problem with being a bit shorter.

Also, none of us know the true height of the kid. While listed at 6'1", it is possible he could be anywhere from 5'11" to 6'1". High schools and colleges are notorious for exaggerating heights and weights.

If he really is 6'1" and does not need a clean pocket, he could be a good signing.

71Bear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

The headline in the article read "big quarterback", which to me would imply 6-4 at least.

On the other hand when it comes to quarterbacks, size isn't everything.

Anyone remember Brock Mansion?

---

Obviously, it is preferable to have the QB stand 6'2" or taller. However, if the guy can move around effectively and throw the ball accurately while outside the pocket, there is no problem with being a bit shorter.

Also, none of us know the true height of the kid. While listed at 6'1", it is possible he could be anywhere from 5'11" to 6'1". High schools and colleges are notorious for exaggerating heights and weights.

If he really is 6'1" and does not need a clean pocket, he could be a good signing.

---

Which is why it was crazy when Baldwin started McIlwain, a shorter QB with great mobility, against Arizona and had him sit in the pocket and throw 40 times over the much taller OL and incoming DL while everyone here complained about his accuracy.

Cal89 said:

---

And for those hell-bent on height, what really matters is not the height to the top of the head, but to the eyes! A guy with shorter forehead has his eyes relatively higher in his head.

---

Uh-oh, look what you've started: Now it's only a matter of time before the NFL Combine starts listing measurements for the height of the forehead (or "height from ground to pupils").

wifeisafurd said:

---

BTW, glad we didn't get that short Drew Brees recruit.

---

Or Justin Vedder. Oops, what a sec., we did sign him.

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees called to say...yeah right.

Another Bear said:

---

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees called to say...yeah right.

---

Wilson is extraordinarily mobile. As noted in my post, if this kid is mobile (as Wilson or Kyler Murray, for example), his chances of making a difference on the field are greatly enhanced.

The names of QB's who are 6'0" or less and are considered pocket passers comprise an extremely short list (pun intended).

71Bear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

BTW, glad we didn't get that short Drew Brees recruit.

---

Or Justin Vedder. Oops, what a sec., we did sign him.

---

At least he beat the toejams at the Nausaleum.

71Bear said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees called to say...yeah right.

---

Wilson is extraordinarily mobile. As noted in my post, if this kid is mobile (as Wilson or Kyler Murray, for example), his chances of making a difference on the field are greatly enhanced.

The names of QB's who are 6'0" or less and are considered pocket passers comprise an extremely short list (pun intended).

---

Both Wilson and Brees have perfected the "slide" or lateral movement to see and throw around huge linemen. Brees isn't as mobile as Wilson but he really knows the slide and his success says he's not a fluke. Any QB who is 6' or under should study them closely. Both can fling the ball down field.

If this kid is as mobile as Wilson or Murray...and Cal has a decent OC...good things might be coming.

And Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray.

I'll settle for Eddie Lebaron

71Bear said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees called to say...yeah right.

---

Wilson is extraordinarily mobile. As noted in my post, if this kid is mobile (as Wilson or Kyler Murray, for example), his chances of making a difference on the field are greatly enhanced.

The names of QB's who are 6'0" or less and are considered pocket passers comprise an extremely short list (pun intended).

---

Or guys who get the ball out quick (e,g., Minshew, Haden for examples).

Recruit shows a lot of mobility. He also shows a big arm on film. My guess his coaches as the competition level improves will have him do more RPO and get the ball out quicker (most QB his school films show long passes so you get no sense how quickly the ball gets out).

As for Vetter:

1) He beat SC and UCLA in the same season, which is good enough for me.
2) Wish him the best in his fight against Parkinsons, go you sturdy Golden Bear!

Eddie LeBaron was only 5-7, according to him.

Two of Cal's greatest quarterbacks were under 6'-0" tall:

Paul Larson, at 5-11: First team All-American and Cal's only QB to lead the nation in total offense (1954)

Bob Celeri, at 5-10: PCC Champion and Rose Bowl QB in 1949, plus 2 seasons in the NFL and 7 in Canada,

Here are some more great QBs. No vertical challenge for these guys:

Frankie Albert 5-10
Fran Tarkenton 6-0
Sonny Jurgensen 5-11
Len Dawson 6-0
Joe Theismann 6-0
Michael Vick 6-0
Billy Kilmer 6-0
Doug Flutie 5-10

SFCityBear said:

---

Eddie LeBaron was only 5-7, according to him.

Two of Cal's greatest quarterbacks were under 6'-0" tall:

Paul Larson, at 5-11: First team All-American and Cal's only QB to lead the nation in total offense (1954)

Bob Celeri, at 5-10: PCC Champion and Rose Bowl QB in 1949, plus 2 seasons in the NFL and 7 in Canada,

Here are some more great QBs. No vertical challenge for these guys:

Frankie Albert 5-10
Fran Tarkenton 6-0
Sonny Jurgensen 5-11
Len Dawson 6-0
Joe Theismann 6-0
Michael Vick 6-0
Billy Kilmer 6-0
Doug Flutie 5-10

---

Good stuff SFCB.

For those so fixated, I'm sure they would counter with average heights of linemen during those days, which I imagine were generally somewhat shorter than today...

Yup...linemen within average human sizes back in the day. Terry Donahue played defensive tackle for UCLA, at 195 lbs., around 6'.

Cal89 said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

Eddie LeBaron was only 5-7, according to him.

Two of Cal's greatest quarterbacks were under 6'-0" tall:

Paul Larson, at 5-11: First team All-American and Cal's only QB to lead the nation in total offense (1954)

Bob Celeri, at 5-10: PCC Champion and Rose Bowl QB in 1949, plus 2 seasons in the NFL and 7 in Canada,

Here are some more great QBs. No vertical challenge for these guys:

Frankie Albert 5-10
Fran Tarkenton 6-0
Sonny Jurgensen 5-11
Len Dawson 6-0
Joe Theismann 6-0
Michael Vick 6-0
Billy Kilmer 6-0
Doug Flutie 5-10

---

Good stuff SFCB.

For those so fixated, I'm sure they would counter with average heights of linemen during those days, which I imagine were generally somewhat shorter than today...

---

I never saw Eddie LeBaron play, but my dad said he was so small, he could hide behind the linemen, and the defenders had a hard time finding him and then tackling him.

Another Bear said:

---

Yup...linemen within average human sizes back in the day. Terry Donahue played defensive tackle for UCLA, at 195 lbs., around 6'.

---

Pat Newell, undersized at 175 lbs, played tackle for Cal in the 1959 Rose Bowl. He was usually facing Iowa's massive (for those days) tackle, Mac Lewis, at 305 lbs, and they ran over Newell all game long. I knew one player who felt Coach Pete Elliot was too rigid with his system, and should have switched tackles, and matched up Frank Sally at 225 against Lewis. Might have made for a little closer game. Iowa was awfully good at both running and passing, though.

Mikeman said:

---

When COP was playing SJS, Eddie made quite a ball fake then threw a TD pass but the refs bought the fake also and blew the play dead thinking the rb had been tackled. Read that in SJS-UOP football program. Tried to make a correction and then don't know "what happened"

---

Another Bear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees called to say...yeah right.

---

Wilson is extraordinarily mobile. As noted in my post, if this kid is mobile (as Wilson or Kyler Murray, for example), his chances of making a difference on the field are greatly enhanced.

The names of QB's who are 6'0" or less and are considered pocket passers comprise an extremely short list (pun intended).

---

Both Wilson and Brees have perfected the "slide" or lateral movement to see and throw around huge linemen. Brees isn't as mobile as Wilson but he really knows the slide and his success says he's not a fluke. Any QB who is 6' or under should study them closely. Both can fling the ball down field.

If this kid is as mobile as Wilson or Murray...and Cal has a decent OC...good things might be coming.

---

The above describes Devon Modster too. 6'2" but mobile, not a runner (which better describes Garbers). We should be moving the pocket anyway, no matter how tall the QB is. Let's see the game plan Saturday. Hopefully it will portend good things for the rest of the year.

Mikeman said:

---

Mikeman said:

---

When COP was playing SJS, Eddie made quite a ball fake then threw a TD pass but the refs bought the fake also and blew the play dead thinking the rb had been tackled. Read that in SJS-UOP football program. Tried to make a correction and then don't know "what happened"

---

---

What ever happened to ball handling? It is almost a thing of the past with all the shotgun plays today. I remember as a little kid marveling at Cal QB Bob Celeri. He used to be able to fake a handoff and hide the ball behind his hip or thigh and the defense didn't know he still had it, as he ran a bootleg around the end. Larson did it too.

SFCityBear said:

---

Mikeman said:

---

Mikeman said:

---

When COP was playing SJS, Eddie made quite a ball fake then threw a TD pass but the refs bought the fake also and blew the play dead thinking the rb had been tackled. Read that in SJS-UOP football program. Tried to make a correction and then don't know "what happened"

---

---

What ever happened to ball handling? It is almost a thing of the past with all the shotgun plays today. I remember as a little kid marveling at Cal QB Bob Celeri. He used to be able to fake a handoff and hide the ball behind his hip or thigh and the defense didn't know he still had it, as he ran a bootleg around the end. Larson did it too.

---

If you're a'talkin' "ball handling", I remember Prothro's Oregon State team led by Terry Baker. He would spin around and noone would know who had the ball.

calumnus said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees called to say...yeah right.

---

Wilson is extraordinarily mobile. As noted in my post, if this kid is mobile (as Wilson or Kyler Murray, for example), his chances of making a difference on the field are greatly enhanced.

The names of QB's who are 6'0" or less and are considered pocket passers comprise an extremely short list (pun intended).

---

Both Wilson and Brees have perfected the "slide" or lateral movement to see and throw around huge linemen. Brees isn't as mobile as Wilson but he really knows the slide and his success says he's not a fluke. Any QB who is 6' or under should study them closely. Both can fling the ball down field.

If this kid is as mobile as Wilson or Murray...and Cal has a decent OC...good things might be coming.

---

The above describes Devon Modster too. 6'2" but mobile, not a runner (which better describes Garbers). We should be moving the pocket anyway, no matter how tall the QB is. Let's see the game plan Saturday. Hopefully it will portend good things for the rest of the year.

---

I wish we'd move the pocket more, too. It's a great way to buy a little time for our QB in the face
of a hard rush. Makes the offense less predictable. I've been longing for this the last couple years.

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees both have very high arm angles and release points which together are more important than their actual heights. When we were are all trying to figure out who should be the starting QB a few years ago, I went to a scrimmage to watch Zach Kline and Jared Goff go at it. After watching them warm up and seeing Zach release the ball from the level of the ear hole on his helmet and Jared release the ball a foot and a half higher, I switched from Team Zach to Team Jared and never looked back.

On his Jr. year video, the new signee Jaden Casey has good feet and a live arm but a very low arm angle on his shorter more direct line drive throws but a higher arm angle on his deep tosses. I'd be interested in watching his senior year video to see if a QB coach has worked with him on that. If a QB has a high release point, 6'0" or 6'1" is not too short.

CampBlueRevue said:

---

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees both have very high arm angles and release points which together are more important than their actual heights. When we were are all trying to figure out who should be the starting QB a few years ago, I went to a scrimmage to watch Zach Kline and Jared Goff go at it. After watching them warm up and seeing Zach release the ball from the level of the ear hole on his helmet and Jared release the ball a foot and a half higher, I switched from Team Zach to Team Jared and never looked back.

On his Jr. year video, the new signee Jaden Casey has good feet and a live arm but a very low arm angle on his shorter more direct line drive throws but a higher arm angle on his deep tosses. I'd be interested in watching his senior year video to see if a QB coach has worked with him on that. If a QB has a high release point, 6'0" or 6'1" is not too short.

---

I don't quite follow this.

Isn't a low arm angle on shorter direct line drive throws and a higher arm angle on deep tosses rather standard for good quarterbacks? The shorter direct line drive throw, like a pass over the middle, and the quick pass to the sideline had to be thrown with a lot of force and zip to the ball, because the window between defender and receiver is short and can close quickly, and a lower arm angle and release point allows the QB to put some force and zip behind his ball. The long pass is a touch pass, a pass which needs to be thrown more upwards and float down to the receiver running under the ball, all with good timing, and the pass necessitates taking longer to release and has a higher arm angle and higher release point, doesn't it?

SFCityBear said:

---

CampBlueRevue said:

---

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees both have very high arm angles and release points which together are more important than their actual heights. When we were are all trying to figure out who should be the starting QB a few years ago, I went to a scrimmage to watch Zach Kline and Jared Goff go at it. After watching them warm up and seeing Zach release the ball from the level of the ear hole on his helmet and Jared release the ball a foot and a half higher, I switched from Team Zach to Team Jared and never looked back.

On his Jr. year video, the new signee Jaden Casey has good feet and a live arm but a very low arm angle on his shorter more direct line drive throws but a higher arm angle on his deep tosses. I'd be interested in watching his senior year video to see if a QB coach has worked with him on that. If a QB has a high release point, 6'0" or 6'1" is not too short.

---

I don't quite follow this.

Isn't a low arm angle on shorter direct line drive throws and a higher arm angle on deep tosses rather standard for good quarterbacks? The shorter direct line drive throw, like a pass over the middle, and the quick pass to the sideline had to be thrown with a lot of force and zip to the ball, because the window between defender and receiver is short and can close quickly, and a lower arm angle and release point allows the QB to put some force and zip behind his ball. The long pass is a touch pass, a pass which needs to be thrown more upwards and float down to the receiver running under the ball, all with good timing, and the pass necessitates taking longer to release and has a higher arm angle and higher release point, doesn't it?

---

It's those shorter passes on a line that 'require' a higher release point to minimize the chances of pass rushers deflecting the ball. If a QB can find a wide open lane to throw the ball down then it's not so important, but those free throwing channels can be the exception rather than the rule against top flight defenses. Also underneath defenders like LBers have a better chance to tip or intercept low line drive passes.

Most of the outstanding QBs these days have high releases. The best example might be Tom Brady who can get off accurate passes against a strong pass rush most of the time unless they're right on top of him; his high arm angle and his feel for when to slide or side step the rush gives him a distinct advantage. Shorter QBs like Brees and Wilson can throw accurately over the pass rush with their naturally high releases, so their height is really not the disadvantage some think it is. There are also a few 6'4" QBs who have strong arms but much lower releases than those two. Whatever advantage their height is supposed to give them is largely negated.

CampBlueRevue said:

---

It's those shorter passes on a line that 'require' a higher release point to minimize the chances of pass rushers deflecting the ball. If a QB can find a wide open lane to throw the ball down then it's not so important, but those free throwing channels can be the exception rather than the rule against top flight defenses. Also underneath defenders like LBers have a better chance to tip or intercept low line drive passes.

Most of the outstanding QBs these days have high releases. The best example might be Tom Brady who can get off accurate passes against a strong pass rush most of the time unless they're right on top of him; his high arm angle and his feel for when to slide or side step the rush gives him a distinct advantage. Shorter QBs like Brees and Wilson can throw accurately over the pass rush with their naturally high releases, so their height is really not the disadvantage some think it is. There are also a few 6'4" QBs who have strong arms but much lower releases than those two. Whatever advantage their height is supposed to give them is largely negated.

---

So the fact that Pac-12 North teams try to recruit and keep trying to recruit tall QBs is a superfluous recruiting task just like eventually starting them at the QB position. Yeah, seems sensible to me; how about the rest of you BI clowns?

I don't care how tall the QB is, I just want an offense that doesn't suck.

So nice get. Wake me up when the Bears have an offense with a pulse.