No contact sports in Santa Clara county

4,785 Views | 52 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by 71Bear
oskioski
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nwbear84 said:

It would seem the biggest risk is spread amongst themselves and coaches. Given the amount of testing and the relatively small number of people involved, it appears more of a "feel good" action than something that will actually have an impact on the spread.
we have different definition of feel good.

oskioski
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philbert said:



Maybe Cal can rent out Memorial Stadium.

the insanity continues.

worse, not only will some lemmings continue go along with it, they will cheer it, thank their overlords for it.
Strykur
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oskidunker said:

So what is the fraud going to do?
Their next game is in Seattle and they probably play any remaining games away (Oregon State in Corvallis, and who knows what happens for Game 6).
LMK5
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wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

It would seem the biggest risk is spread amongst themselves and coaches. Given the amount of testing and the relatively small number of people involved, it appears more of a "feel good" action than something that will actually have an impact on the spread.
Agreed. I understand it for contact sports in general, but I just don't see NFL teams being a big risk here. They have constant testing and protocols for holding people out if they test positive.

Well, we know that frequent testing is very useful, but isn't a panacea. However, I think it's more symbolic than anything: "Folks, the next couple of months are serious!"

We've seen the Bay Area counties to be among the most restrictive in the country. Sometimes overly so, IMO. On the other hand, I believe we have less COVID than most any other major metropolitan area, so something is working.

Obviously testing is not a panacea, since some players have caught it. The frequent testing is really about stopping larger outbreaks before they start. That seems to be working.

I think the tighter lockdowns did help the Bay Area keep things under control in the early days, but now that we know more about how the disease spreads we can do more targeted stuff. A blanket ban on contact sports that doesn't take into account the more controlled NFL environment is going a bit far IMO. It creates "COVID Theater" more than it actually prevents outbreaks.
The NFL has done a haphazard job of controlling the virus.

Numerous teams and coaches have been fined due to violations and two teams have lost draft choices because of repeated violations. In addition, quite a few games have been postponed, players have been held out and, of course, Denver has no QB's this weekend.

Although the NFL could do a much better job, it is extremely difficult to control the virus outside a bubble environment.

But are NFL games responsible for outbreaks beyond their immediate environment? That's what I'd be concerned about from a public health standpoint. I'm kind of doubtful there's any evidence for that.
I don't know if any data exists to answer that question definitively. If there is not, it is better to err on the side of caution, especially now given the current situation in the county.

I guess I'm just not seeing why caution is particularly needed in this very limited instance. I'm fine with ruling out all other contact sports where athletes don't have the same resources they do in the NFL. The NFL games themselves seem very low risk to me, except perhaps from the standpoint of "setting an example" (which won't work anyway since people can just turn on the TV and see games being played elsewhere).
How would a high-intensity, high-density pro game be "very low risk?" The athletes are constantly going anaerobic in their efforts and breathing incredibly hard. Compared to soccer (same intensity, if not more), football is closer contact by a large margin. At least with quality soccer, you have significant spacing between players much of the time (albeit not all, for sure). Close-contact means aerosol spray from intense breathing is being shared by many players on every play. I think this is the CLASSIC example of very high risk activity! It's only testing and monitoring that will keep just a few players from creating a super spreader event.

Yes, that's why I said that the sport was risky under normal circumstances but not so much in the NFL's specific case, because they have testing and monitoring.
Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.
Same can be said for LA County, which has banned restaurants from having any outdoor dining. The County doesn't have data showing outdoor dining in restaurants has lead to any Covid spreading, but they banned it anyway. In essence, they're shutting down peoples' livelihoods based on hunches and educated guesses.
The truth lies somewhere between CNN and Fox.
SmellinRoses
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"Same can be said for LA County, which has banned restaurants from having any outdoor dining. The County doesn't have data showing outdoor dining in restaurants has lead to any Covid spreading, but they banned it anyway. In essence, they're shutting down peoples' livelihoods based on hunches and educated guesses."

This is a good summary of the "science" involved in all of this.
oskidunker
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What about ATT park for a niner game?
Go Bears!
sp4149
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wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.










NYC was more proactive than just evaluating risk, they upgraded the HVAC systems in their schools.
something I haven't seen done in California with property owners mainly crying "Woe is me!" but not taking proactive measures to increase air turnover in indoor spaces.

One environmental mantra I have grown to hate is "Dilution is not the solution!" which has morphed into do nothing till we have a 100% solution. Cleanup in some places has been delayed decades; which allows time for accidents involving higher concentrations of toxic substances. One fairly recent finding with Covid-19 has been that greater exposure (time with concentration) increases the likelihood and severity of the disease. With indoor dining, turning the outside air over five times an hour will reduce the Covid threat, that is the basis for airline claims of increased safety; also true of local Indian casinos. But down here in the state of Denial this hasn't been suggested for schools, public buildings, office complexes, indoor venues attached to outdoor venues. Because of pre-existing school overcrowding, it was promulgated that classroom space needed to be tripled, to return to 'normal'. Putting the HVAC system on "HYPERDRIVE" would be cheaper, and may eventually be part of a long term solution of 'diluting the airborne virus'.
ColoradoBear
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Gonna be awkward when the 49ers take that last wild card from the Cards after using their stadium as home...

https://theathletic.com/news/49ers-home-cardinals-state-farm-stadium/DcMI4ZANHk0v
Big C
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sp4149 said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.










NYC was more proactive than just evaluating risk, they upgraded the HVAC systems in their schools.
something I haven't seen done in California with property owners mainly crying "Woe is me!" but not taking proactive measures to increase air turnover in indoor spaces.

One environmental mantra I have grown to hate is "Dilution is not the solution!" which has morphed into do nothing till we have a 100% solution. Cleanup in some places has been delayed decades; which allows time for accidents involving higher concentrations of toxic substances. One fairly recent finding with Covid-19 has been that greater exposure (time with concentration) increases the likelihood and severity of the disease. With indoor dining, turning the outside air over five times an hour will reduce the Covid threat, that is the basis for airline claims of increased safety; also true of local Indian casinos. But down here in the state of Denial this hasn't been suggested for schools, public buildings, office complexes, indoor venues attached to outdoor venues. Because of pre-existing school overcrowding, it was promulgated that classroom space needed to be tripled, to return to 'normal'. Putting the HVAC system on "HYPERDRIVE" would be cheaper, and may eventually be part of a long term solution of 'diluting the airborne virus'.

What California schools have done re. HVAC has been district-by-district. Note that the state of New York is at or near the top of the country, in terms of public school funding, while California is below average.

You're right that upgraded HVAC would be a great idea, as it would continue to pay off in future respiratory virus years, including the annual seasonal flu. Some older California schools in milder climates only have "heaters".
oskidunker
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Wanna bet Alameda county bans competitive sports on Friday? Just a wild guess.
Go Bears!
wifeisafurd
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sycasey said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

It would seem the biggest risk is spread amongst themselves and coaches. Given the amount of testing and the relatively small number of people involved, it appears more of a "feel good" action than something that will actually have an impact on the spread.
Agreed. I understand it for contact sports in general, but I just don't see NFL teams being a big risk here. They have constant testing and protocols for holding people out if they test positive.

Well, we know that frequent testing is very useful, but isn't a panacea. However, I think it's more symbolic than anything: "Folks, the next couple of months are serious!"

We've seen the Bay Area counties to be among the most restrictive in the country. Sometimes overly so, IMO. On the other hand, I believe we have less COVID than most any other major metropolitan area, so something is working.

Obviously testing is not a panacea, since some players have caught it. The frequent testing is really about stopping larger outbreaks before they start. That seems to be working.

I think the tighter lockdowns did help the Bay Area keep things under control in the early days, but now that we know more about how the disease spreads we can do more targeted stuff. A blanket ban on contact sports that doesn't take into account the more controlled NFL environment is going a bit far IMO. It creates "COVID Theater" more than it actually prevents outbreaks.
The NFL has done a haphazard job of controlling the virus.

Numerous teams and coaches have been fined due to violations and two teams have lost draft choices because of repeated violations. In addition, quite a few games have been postponed, players have been held out and, of course, Denver has no QB's this weekend.

Although the NFL could do a much better job, it is extremely difficult to control the virus outside a bubble environment.

But are NFL games responsible for outbreaks beyond their immediate environment? That's what I'd be concerned about from a public health standpoint. I'm kind of doubtful there's any evidence for that.
I don't know if any data exists to answer that question definitively. If there is not, it is better to err on the side of caution, especially now given the current situation in the county.

I guess I'm just not seeing why caution is particularly needed in this very limited instance. I'm fine with ruling out all other contact sports where athletes don't have the same resources they do in the NFL. The NFL games themselves seem very low risk to me, except perhaps from the standpoint of "setting an example" (which won't work anyway since people can just turn on the TV and see games being played elsewhere).
How would a high-intensity, high-density pro game be "very low risk?" The athletes are constantly going anaerobic in their efforts and breathing incredibly hard. Compared to soccer (same intensity, if not more), football is closer contact by a large margin. At least with quality soccer, you have significant spacing between players much of the time (albeit not all, for sure). Close-contact means aerosol spray from intense breathing is being shared by many players on every play. I think this is the CLASSIC example of very high risk activity! It's only testing and monitoring that will keep just a few players from creating a super spreader event.

Yes, that's why I said that the sport was risky under normal circumstances but not so much in the NFL's specific case, because they have testing and monitoring.
Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.
There is little evidence that elementary schools are at risk for COVID spread. Keeping them open makes sense based on current best knowledge about the disease. (High schools are a different matter.) It made little sense that in NYC the schools were closed but restaurants were open.
To be clear, open for limited outdoor eating WITHOUT A ROOF. Currently it is 63 degrees and raining. The lows are expected to drop into the low 40s or high 30s for the rest of the week and more rain is expected. Enjoy your dinner! I suspect no one is too worried about restaurants being COVID hotbeds (or anything hot). Most people I know who lived in the City have fled and are remotely working. There is income equality aspect to this, in that most families still stuck in the City do go to public schools. Good for the officials that get this.
Big Dog
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sp4149 said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.










NYC was more proactive than just evaluating risk, they upgraded the HVAC systems in their schools.
something I haven't seen done in California with property owners mainly crying "Woe is me!" but not taking proactive measures to increase air turnover in indoor spaces.

actually that was impossible. Less than half of NYC schools have HVAC systems. Instead, they have "natural ventilation", i.e., windows and air shafts to the roof. That said, NYC did purchase some air filters for schools' common areas, but those are a band aid as they can in no way filter air in individual class rooms.

wifeisafurd
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oskidunker said:

So what is the fraud going to do?
'71 said they are flying out to Seattle tomorrow, will practice there and play, and then play at OSU (game will be moved from Palo Alto). Rumors Cal will play at Oregon and WSU. Not sure about SoCal schools.
71Bear
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wifeisafurd said:

oskidunker said:

So what is the fraud going to do?
'71 said they are flying out to Seattle tomorrow, will practice there and play, and then play at OSU (game will be moved from Palo Alto). Rumors Cal will play at Oregon and WSU. Not sure about SoCal schools.
I should note that the first part (UW) was per Stewart Mandel of The Athletic. The second part (OSU) was pure speculation on my part based on the SCC quarantine rule.
71Bear
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Big Dog said:

sp4149 said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.










NYC was more proactive than just evaluating risk, they upgraded the HVAC systems in their schools.
something I haven't seen done in California with property owners mainly crying "Woe is me!" but not taking proactive measures to increase air turnover in indoor spaces.

actually that was impossible. Less than half of NYC schools have HVAC systems. Instead, they have "natural ventilation", i.e., windows and air shafts to the roof. That said, NYC did purchase some air filters for schools' common areas, but those are a band aid as they can in no way filter air in individual class rooms.


I should add that the windows referenced in the post only open a couple inches in many, many schools. To suggest they can be used to circulate fresh air is a major misnomer.

My daughter, a public high school teacher in Brooklyn, has told me some great stories about the heating and cooling of her school during unusual weather situations. In essence, New Yorkers are a much tougher breed of cat than those of us here in the west.
Big Dog
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71Bear said:

Big Dog said:

sp4149 said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.










NYC was more proactive than just evaluating risk, they upgraded the HVAC systems in their schools.
something I haven't seen done in California with property owners mainly crying "Woe is me!" but not taking proactive measures to increase air turnover in indoor spaces.

actually that was impossible. Less than half of NYC schools have HVAC systems. Instead, they have "natural ventilation", i.e., windows and air shafts to the roof. That said, NYC did purchase some air filters for schools' common areas, but those are a band aid as they can in no way filter air in individual class rooms.


I should add that the windows referenced in the post only open a couple inches in many, many schools. To suggest they can be used to circulate fresh air is a major misnomer.

\
That was certainty not the intent, which was to correct your earlier statement that NYC schools did this great HVAC conversion-thingy. Uh no, since most of the schools were never designed with HVAC to begin with. They were designed with windows and central vents. Yes, that makes circulation extremely poor, but that was design code back then. The point is that there is no HVAC system in most NYC schools to add filters to.
71Bear
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Big Dog said:

71Bear said:

Big Dog said:

sp4149 said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

71Bear said:

sycasey said:

Big C said:

sycasey said:

nwbear84 said:

Nevertheless, New York City will reopen elementary schools, a sign that city officials believe schools are not a major source of new cases. Rhode Island has also kept many schools open, while closing gyms, bars and movie theaters. You would think that elementary school classes are fairly high density, with much more limited testing and monitoring, and that unlike adult athletes, it is a lot harder to control young children or to monitor there contacts, especially with working parents. What this represents is the difference between lazy regulators with a shut down mentality, and regulators that actually take a close look at specific activities and evaluate risk.










NYC was more proactive than just evaluating risk, they upgraded the HVAC systems in their schools.
something I haven't seen done in California with property owners mainly crying "Woe is me!" but not taking proactive measures to increase air turnover in indoor spaces.

actually that was impossible. Less than half of NYC schools have HVAC systems. Instead, they have "natural ventilation", i.e., windows and air shafts to the roof. That said, NYC did purchase some air filters for schools' common areas, but those are a band aid as they can in no way filter air in individual class rooms.


I should add that the windows referenced in the post only open a couple inches in many, many schools. To suggest they can be used to circulate fresh air is a major misnomer.

\
That was certainty not the intent, which was to correct your earlier statement that NYC schools did this great HVAC conversion-thingy. Uh no, since most of the schools were never designed with HVAC to begin with. They were designed with windows and central vents. Yes, that makes circulation extremely poor, but that was design code back then. The point is that there is no HVAC system in most NYC schools to add filters to.
Whoa. Hang on. I never said that the NYC school system did a great HVAC conversion (sp4149 made that comment). Go back and reread the comments. To the contrary, I know for a fact that the NYC school has NOT done a great job regarding HVC systems.

You are 100% correct regarding your comment that, "there is no HVAC system in most HYC schools".
wifeisafurd
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71Bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

oskidunker said:

So what is the fraud going to do?
'71 said they are flying out to Seattle tomorrow, will practice there and play, and then play at OSU (game will be moved from Palo Alto). Rumors Cal will play at Oregon and WSU. Not sure about SoCal schools.
I should note that the first part (UW) was per Stewart Mandel of The Athletic. The second part (OSU) was pure speculation on my part based on the SCC quarantine rule.
There are other reports out now confirming your speculation. Good call.
71Bear
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wifeisafurd said:

71Bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

oskidunker said:

So what is the fraud going to do?
'71 said they are flying out to Seattle tomorrow, will practice there and play, and then play at OSU (game will be moved from Palo Alto). Rumors Cal will play at Oregon and WSU. Not sure about SoCal schools.
I should note that the first part (UW) was per Stewart Mandel of The Athletic. The second part (OSU) was pure speculation on my part based on the SCC quarantine rule.
There are other reports out now confirming your speculation. Good call.
Yeah, I was just going to post that Stanford has confirmed they will play UW in Seattle and OSU in Corvallis. They will not return to the Bay Area (at the earliest) until after those two games.

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