you always get more than your share of injuries when you play on turf rather. than on grass. Cal has led tge league in in juries for the last 100 years--

Funny you bring that up because I almost started a new thread on something else: our turf looks AWFUL on television. Same with UW. Nothing looks as good as those SEC fields. Often some of the plastic rugs have a glare to them, making them appear as if there's a sleet of ice on them (especially when the sun hits it and the closer the camera angle is to parallel with the field).

As for injuries, if you know anything about artificial fields, you know that in time they compact down and lose their flex. Fortunately, I think Cal got past that awful tire pellet surface, but plastic is plastic. Nothing is better than God-sod.

Years ago when New South Wales brought their rugby team to play Cal at Memorial (this was before Witter), the Aussie fullback said of all the fields they had played on the Cal field was the best. He said the grass actually felt good to fall on.

Not sure how many artificial surfaces anyone's been on, but I worked for a company that developed one of the first, and I've been interested in the subject since that time. I've been on a bunch of different surfaces, going from astroturf to field turf to miscellaneous turf ad nauseum. Grass is still best by a long shot.

My first year playing at Diablo Valley College (JC) we played on actual astroturf. My knees never felt so sore after a practice than that. The next year we got the good turf. It was a little better, but still didn't feel great. Nothing beats grass. The penny pinchers need to loosen the purse and get Cal back to grass. It is so much better on the joints.

Donate more money. Grass is crazy expensive to maintain on a multiuse field.

Without some plan to pay for it, this topic is silly.

Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

In the Netherlands pro soccer teams are moving away from turf back to grass...

A couple of responses to LunchTime and Larno.

Grass is not a whole lot more expensive to maintain. in fact, in some ways it's even easier to maintain than plastic. While it is true that you have to mow and water grass, you have to clean and maintain plastic as well. Have you ever cleaned gum off of a plastic grass surface? How about the other "stuff" that gets imbedded/melted into it? Then, on top of that, you have a limited life expectancy for an artificial field which then has to be replaced in total. They're not cheap. Then, you have the cost of injuries that are related to the harder surface. Yes, they start out fairly spongy, but in time they compact down and the "sponginess" decreases. Overall, it is less expensive to have a good grass surface.

We haven't even gone into the cosmetics of artificial surfaces. With the exception of some of the hybrid (grass/artificial)surfaces being used overseas, not one artificial field looks better than a well maintained artificial surface. Cal's looks particularly bad, and this latest one is actually a step up from the last one they had which had an awful glare to it, especially at night when it would reflect the lights.

Now to Larno's comment: I don't know the logistics involved at Cal regarding the use of Witter and Kleberger/Maxwell, but I do know that plenty of schools practice on grass surfaces on a daily basis. The technology in natural surfaces has grown as has the technology for artificial. But if you're an athlete, especially if you're playing a contact sport, you would rather have a natural surface. Witter has, in my mind, the best artificial surface i have seen. The glare is reduced, the surface uses coconut shavings instead of those awful rubber tire pellets. And the cushion feels very regular compared to the other artificial surfaces I've tried. Personally, I'm still sorry they didn't go with a hybrid there, but there are a whole lot of considerations involved I'm not aware of. In time they will have to replace that surface too at some considerable cost. But technology doesn't stand still, and we'll have to see what artificial surface manufacturers and grass manufacturers research does between now and then.

For now, the best looking fields are in the SEC. My guess is that schools that have moved back to grass such as Tennessee, "Bama, Auburn and A&M figured the technology for natural surfaces was better and safer. But we all know how important they view football, so it doesn't surprise me the majority of fields there are grass.

Years ago SI did an article about artificial vs. natural surfaces. This is now going back decades and the technology for both has increased a bundle. It would be interesting to see that article revisited.

TomBear said:

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A couple of responses to LunchTime and Larno.

Grass is not a whole lot more expensive to maintain. in fact, in some ways it's even easier to maintain than plastic. While it is true that you have to mow and water grass, you have to clean and maintain plastic as well. Have you ever cleaned gum off of a plastic grass surface? How about the other "stuff" that gets imbedded/melted into it? Then, on top of that, you have a limited life expectancy for an artificial field which then has to be replaced in total. They're not cheap. Then, you have the cost of injuries that are related to the harder surface. Yes, they start out fairly spongy, but in time they compact down and the "sponginess" decreases. Overall, it is less expensive to have a good grass surface.

We haven't even gone into the cosmetics of artificial surfaces. With the exception of some of the hybrid (grass/artificial)surfaces being used overseas, not one artificial field looks better than a well maintained artificial surface. Cal's looks particularly bad, and this latest one is actually a step up from the last one they had which had an awful glare to it, especially at night when it would reflect the lights.

Now to Larno's comment: I don't know the logistics involved at Cal regarding the use of Witter and Kleberger/Maxwell, but I do know that plenty of schools practice on grass surfaces on a daily basis. The technology in natural surfaces has grown as has the technology for artificial. But if you're an athlete, especially if you're playing a contact sport, you would rather have a natural surface. Witter has, in my mind, the best artificial surface i have seen. The glare is reduced, the surface uses coconut shavings instead of those awful rubber tire pellets. And the cushion feels very regular compared to the other artificial surfaces I've tried. Personally, I'm still sorry they didn't go with a hybrid there, but there are a whole lot of considerations involved I'm not aware of. In time they will have to replace that surface too at some considerable cost. But technology doesn't stand still, and we'll have to see what artificial surface manufacturers and grass manufacturers research does between now and then.

For now, the best looking fields are in the SEC. My guess is that schools that have moved back to grass such as Tennessee, "Bama, Auburn and A&M figured the technology for natural surfaces was better and safer. But we all know how important they view football, so it doesn't surprise me the majority of fields there are grass.

Years ago SI did an article about artificial vs. natural surfaces. This is now going back decades and the technology for both has increased a bundle. It would be interesting to see that article revisited.

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Yes, but do those schools have to practice on their stadium field because there are no other places to practice? Cal does use Kleeberger/Maxwell for football practice, and Witter is dedicated to Rugby. I think Cal would love to have natural grass if they had other fields to practice on. Old Bears like me will remember that for decades the football team practiced on the Evans Diamond field and the lockers were in Harmon. When the RSF was built they had to move to the stadium. As for artificial turf if one has been paying attention to high school football many if not most schools have switched away from real grass. At my old high school the football field, which was used for two high schools and youth football, was basically dirt/mud the length of the middle of the field with grass on the edges by the end of the season. The switch to artificial turf saved the players being tackled on hard dirt.

Actually, there is another natural grass field nearby, specifically, on the former campus of the California School for the Blind off of Dwight Way. We occasionally practiced there in the early 1980's when preparing to play the Los Angeles schools who had grass. It was a 5 minute bus ride from the locker room at Memorial. The field and track are still there and the view to the west is incredible.

Golden One said:

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Larno said:

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Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

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I've never understood why Witter Field and Maxwell Field couldn't be used for football practices. If the AD and campus administration really placed a value on football (which is the primary revenue generator for the entire athletic department) , they would make that happen and convert Memorial Stadium to a natural grass field for football games. The unfortunate reality is that Cal just doesn't care.

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The Administration probably does put a value in football. But there are equally competing interests in (1) space for student housing; (2) classroom and office space (3) space for inter mural sports; (4) space for other inter-collegiate sports; and (5) preserving open space for quality of campus life.

Larno said:

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Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

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What is the story with Edwards stadium?

I seem to recall there was a dispute about cleats being caught on the grass field leading to knee injury and that an artificial surface would eliminate the problem. This is from long ago so correct me if I'm wrong.

Northern California has some of the best grass fields around... Until around the end of October.

Then it rains and they turn to garbage. Both the 49ers and Raiders have had serious issues with their grass fields later in the season. Furd too.

Oregon and Washington play on Field Turd and have much larger stashes of cash than Cal, and they don't seem to have this injury bug that Cal fans seem to think we have.

They also play on Field Turf despite having a lot more space at their disposal.

Can't see football playing on grass at Cal unless there is somehow more a lot more space available... like what happens when 5-10 sports are cut.

Even then, I'm not sure the additional space should be used for grass.

I would argue that more fields for IM sports would be better for the campus as a whole. Get these nerds of those computers and outside doing something physical. Might attract more sports fans and fewer esports fans.

GivemTheAxe said:

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Golden One said:

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Larno said:

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Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

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I've never understood why Witter Field and Maxwell Field couldn't be used for football practices. If the AD and campus administration really placed a value on football (which is the primary revenue generator for the entire athletic department) , they would make that happen and convert Memorial Stadium to a natural grass field for football games. The unfortunate reality is that Cal just doesn't care.

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The Administration probably does put a value in football. But there are equally competing interests in (1) space for student housing; (2) classroom and office space (3) space for inter mural sports; (4) space for other inter-collegiate sports; and (5) preserving open space for quality of campus life.

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Using Witter Field and Maxwell Field for football practice would have minimal impact on the competing interests you site. The university just doesn't value football that much.

Golden One said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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Golden One said:

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Larno said:

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Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

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I've never understood why Witter Field and Maxwell Field couldn't be used for football practices. If the AD and campus administration really placed a value on football (which is the primary revenue generator for the entire athletic department) , they would make that happen and convert Memorial Stadium to a natural grass field for football games. The unfortunate reality is that Cal just doesn't care.

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The Administration probably does put a value in football. But there are equally competing interests in (1) space for student housing; (2) classroom and office space (3) space for inter mural sports; (4) space for other inter-collegiate sports; and (5) preserving open space for quality of campus life.

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Using Witter Field and Maxwell Field for football practice would have minimal impact on the competing interests you site. The university just doesn't value football that much.

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Who knows, Witter might become an option again after the agreement with rugby expires. Football can't use that field right now because the AD (Sandy I believe) agreed to make it more or less exclusive to rugby for $150k/yr.

The Clark Kerr site is probably underutilized as is and could be a soccer or rugby field in the future.

If moving the softball field were possible (and this decision would obvisouly need to be made before dropping 20 million on shoehorning a new softball field in there), one could get another 1/2 football field for a total of 1.5 up the canyon with room for some other facilities.

I'm still curious about respiratory irritation with all that rubber material offgassing, even if you are outdoors, those fields have heavy odor.

Golden One said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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Golden One said:

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Larno said:

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Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

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I've never understood why Witter Field and Maxwell Field couldn't be used for football practices. If the AD and campus administration really placed a value on football (which is the primary revenue generator for the entire athletic department) , they would make that happen and convert Memorial Stadium to a natural grass field for football games. The unfortunate reality is that Cal just doesn't care.

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The Administration probably does put a value in football. But there are equally competing interests in (1) space for student housing; (2) classroom and office space (3) space for inter mural sports; (4) space for other inter-collegiate sports; and (5) preserving open space for quality of campus life.

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Using Witter Field and Maxwell Field for football practice would have minimal impact on the competing interests you site. The university just doesn't value football that much.

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I drive by Maxwell Field a number of times per month (pre-COVID) I have rarely seen Maxwell Field empty. The Cal Band practices there. So does the Women's Lacrosse team and various inter mural teams.

Goobear said:

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In the Netherlands pro soccer teams are moving away from turf back to grass...

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Tis a much better game on grass.

GivemTheAxe said:

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Golden One said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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Golden One said:

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Larno said:

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Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

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I've never understood why Witter Field and Maxwell Field couldn't be used for football practices. If the AD and campus administration really placed a value on football (which is the primary revenue generator for the entire athletic department) , they would make that happen and convert Memorial Stadium to a natural grass field for football games. The unfortunate reality is that Cal just doesn't care.

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The Administration probably does put a value in football. But there are equally competing interests in (1) space for student housing; (2) classroom and office space (3) space for inter mural sports; (4) space for other inter-collegiate sports; and (5) preserving open space for quality of campus life.

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Using Witter Field and Maxwell Field for football practice would have minimal impact on the competing interests you site. The university just doesn't value football that much.

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I drive by Maxwell Field a number of times per month (pre-COVID) I have rarely seen Maxwell Field empty. The Cal Band practices there. So does the Women's Lacrosse team and various inter mural teams.

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So, please tell me why any of those activities should have priority over football. Your attitude mirrors that of the Cal administration. They could care less about football, even though it pays the bills. That's exactly why our football program will always be at or near the bottom of the Pac-12.

OdontoBear66 said:

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Goobear said:

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In the Netherlands pro soccer teams are moving away from turf back to grass...

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Tis a much better game on grass.

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Yes for sure.

ColoradoBear said:

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Golden One said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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Golden One said:

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Larno said:

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Not going to happen unless some vacant flat land suddenly appears on campus to use for practice fields. Can't practice every day on real grass and play games on it, just would not hold up. Cal is land-locked, no space for expansion.

---

I've never understood why Witter Field and Maxwell Field couldn't be used for football practices. If the AD and campus administration really placed a value on football (which is the primary revenue generator for the entire athletic department) , they would make that happen and convert Memorial Stadium to a natural grass field for football games. The unfortunate reality is that Cal just doesn't care.

---

The Administration probably does put a value in football. But there are equally competing interests in (1) space for student housing; (2) classroom and office space (3) space for inter mural sports; (4) space for other inter-collegiate sports; and (5) preserving open space for quality of campus life.

---

Using Witter Field and Maxwell Field for football practice would have minimal impact on the competing interests you site. The university just doesn't value football that much.

---

Who knows, Witter might become an option again after the agreement with rugby expires. Football can't use that field right now because the AD (Sandy I believe) agreed to make it more or less exclusive to rugby for $150k/yr.

The Clark Kerr site is probably underutilized as it and could be a soccer or rugby field in the future.

If moving the softball field were possible (and this should obvisouly be do e before dropping 20 million on shoehorning a new softball field in there), one could get another 1/2 football field for a total of 1.5 up the canyon with room for some other facilities.

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Moving rugby to Clark Kerr and dedicating the existing Witter Field to football practice makes a lot of sense, which means it probably won't happen at Cal..

If as some have said here that natural grass technology has improved then I would assume that it would be better than the grass field that Cal used to have. When it rained and the field got wet, especially later in the season, it was a mud bowl. I remember going down on the field after games (yes, it was allowed) and barely being able to stand up in the slippery mud and grass. If you look at the famous picture of Steve Sweeney diving for the winning catch in the 1972 Big Game he is landing in a mud puddle. But last year at the Big Game at Stanford I was one of thousands on the field afterwards and even though I knew it was grass it felt firm like artificial turf, and held up much better than the old grass fields. And old 49er fans remember the immortal 1981 season when they were putting kitty litter on the field at Candlestick as it was so bad. Nevertheless, if Cal could have natural grass it would be better, but given the lack of practice fields I don't see it happening.

Both Oakland and San Francisco candlestick and the ATT were dang near built below the water table lol. Those were all horrible places to build a football stadium. Cal doesn't have that issue really.