Vaccine schedule

33,774 Views | 283 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by calumnus
Big C
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71Bear said:

Big C said:


I have Kaiser and they just notified me that I can schedule a vaccine. I am under 65, so I figured, what, do they mean, I can schedule now for late April? No, I am good to go for NEXT MONDAY!!!

I'm not sure exactly how I qualified. Did they drop the age to 60? Do they have on record that I am a teacher (my job for the last couple of years has been stay-at-home dad)? Whatever the reason, I am sure as heck not going to contact them to question it!

I guess I'll really believe it when the needle goes in, but I am one ecstatic, older, stay-at-home dad right now!
Your age/coverage dictates where you are placed on the pecking order. If your current coverage is through your employment as a teacher, you are a "teacher".



My Kaiser coverage is still through my former school district, so that might well be it.
Big C
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71Bear said:

sluggo said:

Big C said:


I have Kaiser and they just notified me that I can schedule a vaccine. I am under 65, so I figured, what, do they mean, I can schedule now for late April? No, I am good to go for NEXT MONDAY!!!

I'm not sure exactly how I qualified. Did they drop the age to 60? Do they have on record that I am a teacher (my job for the last couple of years has been stay-at-home dad)? Whatever the reason, I am sure as heck not going to contact them to question it!

I guess I'll really believe it when the needle goes in, but I am one ecstatic, older, stay-at-home dad right now!
On Monday eligibility is expanding to those with conditions that may put them at risk. But if you don't have one then it is either because you are listed as an educator, my guess, or it is a mistake. Congratulations in any case.

I think 50-64 will next be added to those eligible. My guess is in 2-4 weeks.
Next up - those who are developmentally disabled (beginning next Monday).

Very subtle, 71, but it didn't get past me. You're a funny guy. (click on the "+ one more quote" above, if you missed it)
71Bear
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Big C said:

71Bear said:

sluggo said:

Big C said:


I have Kaiser and they just notified me that I can schedule a vaccine. I am under 65, so I figured, what, do they mean, I can schedule now for late April? No, I am good to go for NEXT MONDAY!!!

I'm not sure exactly how I qualified. Did they drop the age to 60? Do they have on record that I am a teacher (my job for the last couple of years has been stay-at-home dad)? Whatever the reason, I am sure as heck not going to contact them to question it!

I guess I'll really believe it when the needle goes in, but I am one ecstatic, older, stay-at-home dad right now!
On Monday eligibility is expanding to those with conditions that may put them at risk. But if you don't have one then it is either because you are listed as an educator, my guess, or it is a mistake. Congratulations in any case.

I think 50-64 will next be added to those eligible. My guess is in 2-4 weeks.
Next up - those who are developmentally disabled (beginning next Monday).

Very subtle, 71, but it didn't get past me. You're a funny guy. (click on the "+ one more quote" above, if you missed it)
Actually, my comment was written in response to sluggo. I know the pecking order because we have been patiently waiting until my younger daughter who is developmentally disabled can get her shots.

Finally, my entire family, including son-in-law, will be fully vaccinated in the not too distant future. We have waited a long time for this to happen and I could not be happier.
71Bear
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Big C said:

71Bear said:

Big C said:


I have Kaiser and they just notified me that I can schedule a vaccine. I am under 65, so I figured, what, do they mean, I can schedule now for late April? No, I am good to go for NEXT MONDAY!!!

I'm not sure exactly how I qualified. Did they drop the age to 60? Do they have on record that I am a teacher (my job for the last couple of years has been stay-at-home dad)? Whatever the reason, I am sure as heck not going to contact them to question it!

I guess I'll really believe it when the needle goes in, but I am one ecstatic, older, stay-at-home dad right now!
Your age/coverage dictates where you are placed on the pecking order. If your current coverage is through your employment as a teacher, you are a "teacher".



My Kaiser coverage is still through my former school district, so that might well be it.
Yep. That has to be the reason. My coverage in retirement is through my former employer (Kaiser). When I receive any coverage information, the document always lists me under the Kaiser Salaried Employees group.
Go!Bears
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oskidunker said:

Aren't you charging the students the same tuition even though it is virtual? Thats what universities are doing. You are saying you wont receive enough money from tuition if you limit class size.
We charge about $40/unit and a sizable portion of our students are on fee waivers. State funding pays our bills.
oskidunker
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Interesting. When I was there in 1968 it was totally free.

I was the student director of the band. We played at football and basketball games. I did a search and it doesnt appear that there is that type of band anymore. Lynn Merick was the director. He passed away a few years ago. Great guy.
Go Bears!
Go!Bears
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oskidunker said:

Interesting. When I was there in 1968 it was totally free.

I was the student director of the band. We played at football and basketball games. I did a search and it doesnt appear that there is that type of band anymore. Lynn Merick was the director. He passed away a few years ago. Great guy.
:-( Prop 13 changed a lot of things at California's Community Colleges. No community anymore. Bands are gone. Rec sports, too. The idea of people just taking a class for fun is dead. I guess we can't afford that stuff any more.
calumnus
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Vaccines for all 16 and over now here in Guam.
wraptor347
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California opening up vaccines to people 50 and older on April 1. Available to everyone April 15.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/California-expands-coronavirus-vaccination-16053154.php
Unit2Sucks
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I thought it would be a good idea to revisit vaccine progress now that we are roughly at the midpoint in the campaign to vaccinate the country's adults.

Here's an interesting article from the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

It appears that the concerns about Republican vaccine hesitancy are well founded. Earlier in this thread it appeared a number of states like Alaska were doing a great job on administration but have now stalled due perhaps in part to hesitancy.

And despite all of the excessive handwringing about California's progress in the dawning hours of the vaccine, we are now kicking ass. In addition to doing a pretty good job keeping COVID under control in California, we are continuing to accelerate our vaccination rate. At this point we are number 10 I'm having highest percentage of population having received at least one dose.

Where did all of the right wing trolls go? How come no one is talking about vaccine rates any more? Where is the criticism of Newsom? How is that recall campaign going?
Goobear
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Unit2Sucks said:

I thought it would be a good idea to revisit vaccine progress now that we are roughly at the midpoint in the campaign to vaccinate the country's adults.

Here's an interesting article from the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

It appears that the concerns about Republican vaccine hesitancy are well founded. Earlier in this thread it appeared a number of states like Alaska were doing a great job on administration but have now stalled due perhaps in part to hesitancy.

And despite all of the excessive handwringing about California's progress in the dawning hours of the vaccine, we are now kicking ass. In addition to doing a pretty good job keeping COVID under control in California, we are continuing to accelerate our vaccination rate. At this point we are number 10 I'm having highest percentage of population having received at least one dose.

Where did all of the right wing trolls go? How come no one is talking about vaccine rates any more? Where is the criticism of Newsom? How is that recall campaign going?
Not a Newsom fan, not liberal economically yet vaccinated.
rkt88edmo
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They are worried enough about the recall that I've been getting texts from Team Newsome about it.

The time between now and June will be very interesting with all the unvaxd kids back in school.

The statistics are very hard to judge because as it continues to shift into the younger demographic, they are often asymptomatic which means we aren't going to see test rates that shows posititvity and we have no idea what the transmission in public looks like particularly now that many are vaxd and may not develop severe enough symptoms to seek treatment. I think it's new territory.

Why? My piece of anecdotal evidence, have a young friend who works at a job, their coworker works two jobs, the other job requires weekly testing. That person got COVID, only found out due to mandatory work testing, but after finding out, my friend who only worked one shift with them tested positive (only developed very mild symptoms) and brought that back to their residence here all of the 3 others living with them for 4 days (time from exposure to notification which triggered self quarantining). All three of the roomates tested positive but luckily did not develop symptoms, possibly because the person who got sick didn't have a high viral load yet and they found out early because of the mandatory testing.

Anyways, I'm not so interested in the politics of it all. I am glad that vax rollouts to the wider population have gone well.

I do think that the additional communication from Pfizer that boosters or annuals may be required will just increase hesitancy, because those who were reluctant before will probably question the worth of signing up for something that will need to be administered repeatedly.

I think it would be interesting to examine FLU vax hesitancy data from pre-SARS, and then how it has changed post SARS and H1N1 and COVID.
71Bear
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Goobear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I thought it would be a good idea to revisit vaccine progress now that we are roughly at the midpoint in the campaign to vaccinate the country's adults.

Here's an interesting article from the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

It appears that the concerns about Republican vaccine hesitancy are well founded. Earlier in this thread it appeared a number of states like Alaska were doing a great job on administration but have now stalled due perhaps in part to hesitancy.

And despite all of the excessive handwringing about California's progress in the dawning hours of the vaccine, we are now kicking ass. In addition to doing a pretty good job keeping COVID under control in California, we are continuing to accelerate our vaccination rate. At this point we are number 10 I'm having highest percentage of population having received at least one dose.

Where did all of the right wing trolls go? How come no one is talking about vaccine rates any more? Where is the criticism of Newsom? How is that recall campaign going?
Not a Newsom fan, not liberal economically yet vaccinated.
The ultimate head scratcher in my lifetime - when did the science of vaccines become politicized? As a society, we need to vaccinate ourselves against all manner of afflictions to control potential mass outbreaks and/or individual problems - Polio, MMR, chicken pox, shingles, influenza, pneumonia, etc., etc.

The reticence to "get a shot" is a mystery. Heck, the last time I checked, these types of diseases do not check one's voter registration card before afflicting a person. They attack anyone who has not had the good fortune to receive a vaccination.

If a miracle vaccination were developed to put an end to the scourge of cancer, I wonder how many people would say, "No thanks". It would not surprise me if that figure was substantial.

There is no answer to stupidity......




Big C
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Tomorrow I will be officially "fully vaccinated".

We're darn lucky that the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) are as effective as they are. From looking at Israel and the UK, once a country starts to approach 50% of the population having had at least one dose, the case rate and fatality rate really plummets (what with another decent percent having some immunity from having had the virus).

We are at about 38-39% now (1st dose), with California at about 41-42%. This "4th wave" looks like it will be more of a swell, except for a few places like Michigan. But LOTS MORE PEOPLE still need to get jabbed.

Kids 12-17 will probably be good to vax in June or so, maybe sooner, which will be great for middle and high schools in the fall. Then we will be basically done with this and can use our extra doses to help other countries

Americans are darned sick of this virus. I get that. Can you imagine if we didn't have the vaccines?
Goobear
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71Bear said:

Goobear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

I thought it would be a good idea to revisit vaccine progress now that we are roughly at the midpoint in the campaign to vaccinate the country's adults.

Here's an interesting article from the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

It appears that the concerns about Republican vaccine hesitancy are well founded. Earlier in this thread it appeared a number of states like Alaska were doing a great job on administration but have now stalled due perhaps in part to hesitancy.

And despite all of the excessive handwringing about California's progress in the dawning hours of the vaccine, we are now kicking ass. In addition to doing a pretty good job keeping COVID under control in California, we are continuing to accelerate our vaccination rate. At this point we are number 10 I'm having highest percentage of population having received at least one dose.

Where did all of the right wing trolls go? How come no one is talking about vaccine rates any more? Where is the criticism of Newsom? How is that recall campaign going?
Not a Newsom fan, not liberal economically yet vaccinated.
The ultimate head scratcher in my lifetime - when did the science of vaccines become politicized? As a society, we need to vaccinate ourselves against all manner of afflictions to control potential mass outbreaks and/or individual problems - Polio, MMR, chicken pox, shingles, influenza, pneumonia, etc., etc.

The reticence to "get a shot" is a mystery. Heck, the last time I checked, these types of diseases do not check one's voter registration card before afflicting a person. They attack anyone who has not had the good fortune to receive a vaccination.

If a miracle vaccination were developed to put an end to the scourge of cancer, I wonder how many people would say, "No thanks". It would not surprise me if that figure was substantial.

There is no answer to stupidity......





Agreed, ignorance...
AunBear89
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rkt88edmo
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71Bear said:


The ultimate head scratcher in my lifetime - when did the science of vaccines become politicized? As a society, we need to vaccinate ourselves against all manner of afflictions to control potential mass outbreaks and/or individual problems - Polio, MMR, chicken pox, shingles, influenza, pneumonia, etc., etc.

The reticence to "get a shot" is a mystery. Heck, the last time I checked, these types of diseases do not check one's voter registration card before afflicting a person. They attack anyone who has not had the good fortune to receive a vaccination.

If a miracle vaccination were developed to put an end to the scourge of cancer, I wonder how many people would say, "No thanks". It would not surprise me if that figure was substantial.

There is no answer to stupidity......






I don't think it is that hard to suss out. The contributors are known human behavioral issues and some are simply exacerbated by the circumstances today.

-We are a bit far removed from the heyday of the horrors of children scourged by disease (smallpox, measles, polio) so new parents today do not know anyone directly who was afflicted or lost a sibling or cousin or witnessed the aftermath of these things. Heck, new parents these days have no longer even had the chicken pox themselves. So the consequences of non-vax have not been experienced directly.

- Govt educational information has been coopted/hijacked by private company lobbying/funds (particularly with regard to nutritional content information and labelling and food pyramid campaigns). This provides direct experience with propaganda that has been harming their health and promotes information instability.

-People who are right about one thing, or find success often believe they are right about other things or above the 'common knowledge' and with success they are often clumped together.

-Safety Moms - when stay at home caregivers have nothing to do but sit at home and worry and gossip they develop weird group think ideas and behaviors.

-Widening stratification of the income levels leading to break downs of trust in government and public education and furthers information instability.

On top of that the sheer animosity surrounding the political divisions that both sides have been promoting comes with a clear cognitive dissonance component that takes objective and polite discussion off the table to be replaced by party line talking points.
Big C
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rkt88edmo said:

71Bear said:


The ultimate head scratcher in my lifetime - when did the science of vaccines become politicized? As a society, we need to vaccinate ourselves against all manner of afflictions to control potential mass outbreaks and/or individual problems - Polio, MMR, chicken pox, shingles, influenza, pneumonia, etc., etc.

The reticence to "get a shot" is a mystery. Heck, the last time I checked, these types of diseases do not check one's voter registration card before afflicting a person. They attack anyone who has not had the good fortune to receive a vaccination.

If a miracle vaccination were developed to put an end to the scourge of cancer, I wonder how many people would say, "No thanks". It would not surprise me if that figure was substantial.

There is no answer to stupidity......






I don't think it is that hard to suss out. The contributors are known human behavioral issues and some are simply exacerbated by the circumstances today.

-We are a bit far removed from the heyday of the horrors of children scourged by disease (smallpox, measles, polio) so new parents today do not know anyone directly who was afflicted or lost a sibling or cousin or witnessed the aftermath of these things. Heck, new parents these days have no longer even had the chicken pox themselves. So the consequences of non-vax have not been experienced directly.

- Govt educational information has been coopted/hijacked by private company lobbying/funds (particularly with regard to nutritional content information and labelling and food pyramid campaigns). This provides direct experience with propaganda that has been harming their health and promotes information instability.

-People who are right about one thing, or find success often believe they are right about other things or above the 'common knowledge' and with success they are often clumped together.

-Safety Moms - when stay at home caregivers have nothing to do but sit at home and worry and gossip they develop weird group think ideas and behaviors.

-Widening stratification of the income levels leading to break downs of trust in government and public education and furthers information instability.

On top of that the sheer animosity surrounding the political divisions that both sides have been promoting comes with a clear cognitive dissonance component that takes objective and polite discussion off the table to be replaced by party line talking points.

- people now being able to tailor their "news" sources to fit their existing beliefs furthers the left-right divide
FloriDreaming
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Trying to put everyone in a box is silly and stupid.

I've always been supportive of vaccines, always get them. And don't believe they should be forced on people, however faulty their reasoning for opting out. With that said, I also don't believe people who choose not to be vaccinated should receive special treatment. You don't want to vaccinate - fine. Then don't say a peep when the masks and social distancing ends. You made your choice, live with the consequences.

As far as vaccinated people being afraid of unvaccinated people, stop being paranoid and get a life. The science says you're very safe. The science fiction "possibility game" is just that - fiction. It's not real. If you got your vaccine, you've done your part, now shut up and get on with your life. Stop being a paranoid germaphobe just because you've been conditioned to be one for a year - train yourself to be a normal human being again and let other people be.

I think the lockdowns were and are complete BS theater that did a lot of harm and no good. That doesn't make me anti-science, it makes me pro-looking-at-real-data-and-results and anti-following-along-with-media-scare-tactics-and-government-oppression.

So I'm conservative, pro-vaccine (because I understand probabilities) and anti-paranoia and lockdowns. From a statistical and probability standpoint, this virus was never a big deal and did not warrant the fear-based massive overreaction and safety theater. The only arguments I've seen for making it a big deal are all irrational, emotionally-based arguments. From a pure logic and statistical standpoint, this didn't qualify as a pandemic and from a cost-benefit standpoint didn't warrant any of this overreaction. And after being vaccinated, it's completely not a big deal and people still freaking out are absolutely being illogical and irrational, without question or dispute. The only reason for being afraid of COVID if you've been vaccinated is an inability to manage your own emotions, not actual data or logic.

And literally every single one of my conservative peers has had the vaccine. (Most of them, like myself, just don't post those weird vaccine porn pictures on their social media - really, what's the thought process there for doing that??) Not everyone fits nicely into a convenient box.
Big C
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HuaHin (fka Uthai) said:

Trying to put everyone in a box is silly and stupid.

I've always been supportive of vaccines, always get them. And don't believe they should be forced on people, however faulty their reasoning for opting out. With that said, I also don't believe people who choose not to be vaccinated should receive special treatment. You don't want to vaccinate - fine. Then don't say a peep when the masks and social distancing ends. You made your choice, live with the consequences.

As far as vaccinated people being afraid of unvaccinated people, stop being paranoid and get a life. The science says you're very safe. The science fiction "possibility game" is just that - fiction. It's not real. If you got your vaccine, you've done your part, now shut up and get on with your life. Stop being a paranoid germaphobe just because you've been conditioned to be one for a year - train yourself to be a normal human being again and let other people be.

I think the lockdowns were and are complete BS theater that did a lot of harm and no good. That doesn't make me anti-science, it makes me pro-looking-at-real-data-and-results and anti-following-along-with-media-scare-tactics-and-government-oppression.

So I'm conservative, pro-vaccine (because I understand probabilities) and anti-paranoia and lockdowns. From a statistical and probability standpoint, this virus was never a big deal and did not warrant the fear-based massive overreaction and safety theater. The only arguments I've seen for making it a big deal are all irrational, emotionally-based arguments. From a pure logic and statistical standpoint, this didn't qualify as a pandemic and from a cost-benefit standpoint didn't warrant any of this overreaction. And after being vaccinated, it's completely not a big deal and people still freaking out are absolutely being illogical and irrational, without question or dispute. The only reason for being afraid of COVID if you've been vaccinated is an inability to manage your own emotions, not actual data or logic.

And literally every single one of my conservative peers has had the vaccine. (Most of them, like myself, just don't post those weird vaccine porn pictures on their social media - really, what's the thought process there for doing that??) Not everyone fits nicely into a convenient box.

It will be interesting to see how history looks at 2020/2021. Certainly, there have been overreactions. Some out of initial ignorance in not knowing how the virus spreads. Some by the media attempting to attract viewers/readers. Some by the left, perhaps attempting what they felt was a necessary counterbalance to the right.

Still, 560,000+ American fatalities and running. That's not a big deal? And it would've been a lot more, had we not sheltered-in-place late-March-through-April, 2020.
rkt88edmo
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Just learned today of a friend of a friend in TX, under 45 years old, wife is on respirator and husband passed away. They were infected in late March.
Goobear
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rkt88edmo said:

Just learned today of a friend of a friend in TX, under 45 years old, wife is on respirator and husband passed away. They were infected in late March.
Same thing happened to a good friend of mine I'm Texas. His wife had to pull the plug after he had been on a respirator for 6 weeks...I also am not a liberal when it comes to money but got vaccinated and had my second shot. I think the reaction to Covid was done in a vacuum and there was no regard for unintended consequences. I believe the government was ill prepared and the weakness was displayed in terms of lack of preparedness stemming from the past several decades. Their answer was lock down as a result. I see the same thing in Holland. Their cases are not coming down despite their stringent lock down. Obviously not the answer. Nevertheless Covid is real and one has to be careful yet live your life without endangering others.
Big C
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Hi Goobear, I agree that "lockdown" is a ham-handed measure for when all else has failed. I just took a look at the Netherlands with my "COVID-trained eye" (all developed in the last 13-14 months!). Lately, when I see case-rates are high, but recent fatalities not so much, that tells me that young people are spreading the virus, largely, to each other. Europeans are just like Americans with this lately, i.e. "sick of this s_ _ _". So however stringent the lockdown is SUPPOSED to be, it is perhaps not being followed by the younger set (who largely feel invulnerable). The good news is, even though Europeans are behind the US and the UK in vaccination rates, they will be catching up, and that will be everyone's salvation.

A successful "lockdown" (in which people actually do it) is proven to drastically slow the spread of this virus. Whether it is worth it or not is another question.

We will be past this very soon, thank goodness. Go Bears!
Unit2Sucks
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Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.
GivemTheAxe
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Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.
Big C
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NorCal has done a lot better with the virus than has SoCal.


California has a smaller percentage of people who are vaccine-hesitant and vaccine-averse than most any other state, so I expect our numbers vis-a-vis other states will continue to improve. However, after the March and April frenzy, fewer and fewer people are getting vaccinated nationally and even here, which is concerning.
GivemTheAxe
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Big C said:


NorCal has done a lot better with the virus than has SoCal.


California has a smaller percentage of people who are vaccine-hesitant and vaccine-averse than most any other state, so I expect our numbers vis-a-vis other states will continue to improve. However, after the March and April frenzy, fewer and fewer people are getting vaccinated nationally and even here, which is concerning.

Agree. But also keep in mind that SoCal has so many more people than Nor-Cal. And I got the strong feeling that the youth culture in and around LA did not think that the rules of masks and social distancing really applied to them. Those rules applied only to the "old" people.
calumnus
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GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.


Effective lockdowns: New Zealand, Taiwan and to a large extent Canada. Korea dealt with it with widespread testing. The key, like when dealing with a fire outbreak, was tamping it out by locking down early. Taiwan had fans at baseball games a year ago, two months after eliminating it completely with an early country-wide lockdown. And you cannot say Taiwan and Korea had fewer travelers from China than the US.

Europe had differing policies in countries adjacent to each other with open travel. Even if one country locked down and eliminated it, they could be reinfected by people coming in from neighboring countries.

The United States could have been like Canada but were not united. A coordinated Federal policy was needed, instead Trump first called it a hoax ignoring it then pushed it onto individual states to determine policy. States competed with each other for PPE and ventilators leading to high prices, hoarding and shortages. He even encouraged armed resistance to lockdown measures in places like Michigan with a storming of the state capital by his supporters and a plot to kidnap and execute the governor. He encouraged states with low level of infection to stay open, when that was the time to stamp it out and what was needed was everyone to shelter in place simultaneously for two weeks. So we were like Europe, a bunch of independent states with open travel instead of the United States. One state would get it under control but then could get reinfected by travelers from states with no measures. We could have dealt with it like Korea with widespread testing and contact tracing, allowing things to stay open and only the infected being quarantined, but Trump held back on widespread testing because he thought that would just reveal the true infection rate and make him look bad in an election year. He even politicized mask wearing. The result was an out of control infection and over a year of on again off again lock down measures and now likely 1 million Americans dead when it is all accounted for.
Big C
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GivemTheAxe said:

Big C said:


NorCal has done a lot better with the virus than has SoCal.


California has a smaller percentage of people who are vaccine-hesitant and vaccine-averse than most any other state, so I expect our numbers vis-a-vis other states will continue to improve. However, after the March and April frenzy, fewer and fewer people are getting vaccinated nationally and even here, which is concerning.

Agree. But also keep in mind that SoCal has so many more people than Nor-Cal. And I got the strong feeling that the youth culture in and around LA did not think that the rules of masks and social distancing really applied to them. Those rules applied only to the "old" people.

SoCal was also greater per capita.

Is LA youth culture different than the Bay Area's? (Dunno, just asking.) Talking about teenagers? 18-25? Even older?
Big C
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calumnus said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.


Effective lockdowns: New Zealand, Taiwan and to a large extent Canada. Korea dealt with it with widespread testing. The key, like when dealing with a fire outbreak, was tamping it out by locking down early. Taiwan had fans at baseball games a year ago, two months after eliminating it completely with an early country-wide lockdown. And you cannot say Taiwan and Korea had fewer travelers from China than the US.

Europe had differing policies in countries adjacent to each other with open travel. Even if one country locked down and eliminated it, they could be reinfected by people coming in from neighboring countries.

The United States could have been like Canada but were not united. A coordinated Federal policy was needed, instead Trump first called it a hoax ignoring it then pushed it onto individual states to determine policy. States competed with each other for PPE and ventilators leading to high prices, hoarding and shortages. He even encouraged armed resistance to lockdown measures in places like Michigan with a storming of the state capital by his supporters and a plot to kidnap and execute the governor. He encouraged states with low level of infection to stay open, when that was the time to stamp it out and what was needed was everyone to shelter in place simultaneously for two weeks. So we were like Europe, a bunch of independent states with open travel instead of the United States. One state would get it under control but then could get reinfected by travelers from states with no measures. We could have dealt with it like Korea with widespread testing and contact tracing, allowing things to stay open and only the infected being quarantined, but Trump held back on widespread testing because he thought that would just reveal the true infection rate and make him look bad in an election year. He even politicized mask wearing. The result was an out of control infection and over a year of on again off again lock down measures and now likely 1 million Americans dead when it is all accounted for.

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:

calumnus said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.


Effective lockdowns: New Zealand, Taiwan and to a large extent Canada. Korea dealt with it with widespread testing. The key, like when dealing with a fire outbreak, was tamping it out by locking down early. Taiwan had fans at baseball games a year ago, two months after eliminating it completely with an early country-wide lockdown. And you cannot say Taiwan and Korea had fewer travelers from China than the US.

Europe had differing policies in countries adjacent to each other with open travel. Even if one country locked down and eliminated it, they could be reinfected by people coming in from neighboring countries.

The United States could have been like Canada but were not united. A coordinated Federal policy was needed, instead Trump first called it a hoax ignoring it then pushed it onto individual states to determine policy. States competed with each other for PPE and ventilators leading to high prices, hoarding and shortages. He even encouraged armed resistance to lockdown measures in places like Michigan with a storming of the state capital by his supporters and a plot to kidnap and execute the governor. He encouraged states with low level of infection to stay open, when that was the time to stamp it out and what was needed was everyone to shelter in place simultaneously for two weeks. So we were like Europe, a bunch of independent states with open travel instead of the United States. One state would get it under control but then could get reinfected by travelers from states with no measures. We could have dealt with it like Korea with widespread testing and contact tracing, allowing things to stay open and only the infected being quarantined, but Trump held back on widespread testing because he thought that would just reveal the true infection rate and make him look bad in an election year. He even politicized mask wearing. The result was an out of control infection and over a year of on again off again lock down measures and now likely 1 million Americans dead when it is all accounted for.

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...

I don't want to relegate this into the pool of politics. But getting back to my original point of leadership (not politics). In WW2 the leader of the USA convinced a large majority of the US population (regardless of whatever political viewpoint they held) that they should work together to defeat a common enemy.

In fact for a brief moment I thought that The Prez would step up and become the real leader that he claimed he was. COVID 19 was neither Right nor Left. Progressive nor Conservative. He could have followed the lead of his Republican predecessor George W. Bush. He didn't but instead of bringing the country together, he did all he could to split it apart. He was successful in doing that.
We did not split up because we as a nation are incapable of acting in unison. But because the one person who could have brought us together didn't try to bring us together at the precise moment he could have.
That is my conclusion not based on politics. Because as a Democrat I wanted him to do the right thing by us as a nation, even if it meant he would have been re-elected in a landslide.
I was very sad when he chose the path he did even though I thought it would greatly increase the odds that a Democrat would be elected president because it meant that things would be very bad for us as a nation.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:

calumnus said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.


Effective lockdowns: New Zealand, Taiwan and to a large extent Canada. Korea dealt with it with widespread testing. The key, like when dealing with a fire outbreak, was tamping it out by locking down early. Taiwan had fans at baseball games a year ago, two months after eliminating it completely with an early country-wide lockdown. And you cannot say Taiwan and Korea had fewer travelers from China than the US.

Europe had differing policies in countries adjacent to each other with open travel. Even if one country locked down and eliminated it, they could be reinfected by people coming in from neighboring countries.

The United States could have been like Canada but were not united. A coordinated Federal policy was needed, instead Trump first called it a hoax ignoring it then pushed it onto individual states to determine policy. States competed with each other for PPE and ventilators leading to high prices, hoarding and shortages. He even encouraged armed resistance to lockdown measures in places like Michigan with a storming of the state capital by his supporters and a plot to kidnap and execute the governor. He encouraged states with low level of infection to stay open, when that was the time to stamp it out and what was needed was everyone to shelter in place simultaneously for two weeks. So we were like Europe, a bunch of independent states with open travel instead of the United States. One state would get it under control but then could get reinfected by travelers from states with no measures. We could have dealt with it like Korea with widespread testing and contact tracing, allowing things to stay open and only the infected being quarantined, but Trump held back on widespread testing because he thought that would just reveal the true infection rate and make him look bad in an election year. He even politicized mask wearing. The result was an out of control infection and over a year of on again off again lock down measures and now likely 1 million Americans dead when it is all accounted for.

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...


Canada has had only 24,000 COVID deaths despite having the world's longest border with the world's most infected country.
Goobear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.
Easy to say if you are not an owner who lost his business? I am not buying that argument at all.
GivemTheAxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

Big C said:

calumnus said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.


Effective lockdowns: New Zealand, Taiwan and to a large extent Canada. Korea dealt with it with widespread testing. The key, like when dealing with a fire outbreak, was tamping it out by locking down early. Taiwan had fans at baseball games a year ago, two months after eliminating it completely with an early country-wide lockdown. And you cannot say Taiwan and Korea had fewer travelers from China than the US.

Europe had differing policies in countries adjacent to each other with open travel. Even if one country locked down and eliminated it, they could be reinfected by people coming in from neighboring countries.

The United States could have been like Canada but were not united. A coordinated Federal policy was needed, instead Trump first called it a hoax ignoring it then pushed it onto individual states to determine policy. States competed with each other for PPE and ventilators leading to high prices, hoarding and shortages. He even encouraged armed resistance to lockdown measures in places like Michigan with a storming of the state capital by his supporters and a plot to kidnap and execute the governor. He encouraged states with low level of infection to stay open, when that was the time to stamp it out and what was needed was everyone to shelter in place simultaneously for two weeks. So we were like Europe, a bunch of independent states with open travel instead of the United States. One state would get it under control but then could get reinfected by travelers from states with no measures. We could have dealt with it like Korea with widespread testing and contact tracing, allowing things to stay open and only the infected being quarantined, but Trump held back on widespread testing because he thought that would just reveal the true infection rate and make him look bad in an election year. He even politicized mask wearing. The result was an out of control infection and over a year of on again off again lock down measures and now likely 1 million Americans dead when it is all accounted for.

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...


Canada has had only 24,000 COVID deaths despite having the world's longest border with the world's most infected country.

In times of crisis, good leadership is invaluable.
England found that out in WW2. So did the US. Unfortunately we forgot it in the interim, and had to learn that lesson for the second time.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Goobear said:

GivemTheAxe said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.



Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.
Easy to say if you are not an owner who lost his business? I am not buying that argument at all.


My brother in law owned several (5) Five Guys in Maryland and a historic inn/deli in downtown Annapolis. After being sick for two weeks he was found dead in his apartment. We had the funeral via Zoom. My sister died of brain cancer 14 years ago. The businesses were to be the legacy my brother-in-law passed down to my nephew.

My nephew is 22, just graduated from college. The businesses have been had hit by COVID (the deli more than the 5 Guys). My brother and I are the trustees. My nephew is now being sued by some of the investors (family "friends" who told him they would "be there for him" at the memorial service) trying to get control of the businesses. Dont you think my nephew would trade the businesses to get his dad back?

In discussions with our nephew my brother and I have made it clear that we would fight for the businesses, but in the end of the day, HE is his father's legacy, not some hamburger restaurants. My nephew knows that just like his father built up his businesses from nothing, he can too. Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you have fed him for life. My brother-in-law taught his son to fish.

You can always start a new business. You can't bring back the dead. I wish people understood this without more people having to die.
 
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