socaltownie said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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ncbears said:

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back on topic, it appears to my untrained eye, Madsen's in game coaching may be the issue. He appears to not make effective adjustments as game goes on - hence the failure to hold leads

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I understand your conclusion. But for it to be valid you need to supply some specific issues/strategies. (And I contend that your statement - conclusion without specifics, is consistent with the others I read on this forum.)

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He is slow to call time out when we are getting abused by a particular set play. teams were KILLING us on the high pick and roll repeatedly in the early part of the season and there was NO adjustment with a quick TO to help explain/remind the players how we wanted to defend that. Particularly thinking about the Mizzu game when their PG would take that high screen and the his man who came over high on his back hip and then essentially reverse posted him to a 6 foot jumper.

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Thanks for stepping in SoCal. I respect and agree with your comments. Watching the games it appears the big men (especially Dort), are playing it "half way" which is leading to many uncontested basekts. But over and above this I still am reluctant to put too much of this on Madsen. Moving forward to be successful he's going to have to improve more on the talent he brings in. Next year a solid big man will be desparately needed. It would be a logical start to fix our weak defense.

I was a Blackshear fan at the start of the season because he seemed to run the team well and shoot decently, but either due to injury or the increased level of competition, he has really fallen off. I'm not happy with Tucker as the answer since both get abused when playing defense.

HearstMining said:

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I was a Blackshear fan at the start of the season because he seemed to run the team well and shoot decently, but either due to injury or the increased level of competition, he has really fallen off. I'm not happy with Tucker as the answer since both get abused when playing defense.

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Wilkinson already scores a lot. I doubt starting him would change anything .There are 21 players on the team. Why? Maybe one can play defense

stu said:

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socaltownie said:

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stu said:

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socaltownie said:

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I still believe the kicker was the right hire as it had the backing of very wealthy alumni. We get the practice facility built and likely an 8 figure nil budget. I leave it to Greg/sb if they would like to share If Goldman has given to the hoops program this decade.

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UCSB is 8-5, not all that impressive with their schedule.

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If he failed we would have the Goldman practice facility. When Madsen failed we have a feel good guy with a smile

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If money is the only consideration then we should have made Goldman our new chancellor.

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It isn't the ONLY consideration but given their bodies of work the Kicker has had far longer sustained success at a UC. Madsen has a white guys dance at an NBA championship celebtration.

Harky4 said:

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I would be playing Christian Tucker over Jovan Blackshear

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Tucker is not P4 level. I'd start Wilkinson, Campbell, Andrej, Rytis, and Sissoko. Subs would be Dort, Mahoney with very limited minutes to Blacksher and Tucker. Hopefully JOJ and Omot come back soon. We need them.

barsad said:

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Being the voice of reason in a Bear Insider thread is like whispering the alma mater on BART while it's going through the tunnel and hoping others will sing along, but I'll give it a try.
All the Madsen hate is unwarranted. Save it for a year from now if it looks like we'll have a third losing season. The guy gets three shots at this, that's the least we can do as fans given how many chances we gave the Axis of Terrible (Cuonzo-Wyking-Fox).
We're losing because the talent we thought we had isn't there. We're down two guys who should be starting (Omot and JOJ), and there is no floor leader. Our big men are small (metaphorically), and our shooters are…. what shooters?
This doesn't mean the season is doomed, just that a Zen-like patience is called for (we will win at least 6 more games, but stop dreaming of the postseason).
We will not win because Madsen calls a time out at X:XX instead of X:XX, or spends 5 more minutes talking to Dort about how to move your feet.
Ultimately he will pay the price if the team keeps up its losing ways, that's how coaching works. The only thing worse than watching Cal give up leads is reading a post that starts with: "I'm not an Xs and Os guy, BUT" … followed by a bunch of garbage on Xs and Os.

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You nailed it barsad. I'm ready to start singing.

barsad said:

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Being the voice of reason in a Bear Insider thread is like whispering the alma mater on BART while it's going through the tunnel and hoping others will sing along, but I'll give it a try.
All the Madsen hate is unwarranted. Save it for a year from now if it looks like we'll have a third losing season. The guy gets three shots at this, that's the least we can do as fans given how many chances we gave the Axis of Terrible (Cuonzo-Wyking-Fox).
We're losing because the talent we thought we had isn't there. We're down two guys who should be starting (Omot and JOJ), and there is no floor leader. Our big men are small (metaphorically), and our shooters are…. what shooters?
This doesn't mean the season is doomed, just that a Zen-like patience is called for (we will win at least 6 more games, but stop dreaming of the postseason).
We will not win because Madsen calls a time out at X:XX instead of X:XX, or spends 5 more minutes talking to Dort about how to move your feet.
Ultimately he will pay the price if the team keeps up its losing ways, that's how coaching works. The only thing worse than watching Cal give up leads is reading a post that starts with: "I'm not an Xs and Os guy, BUT" … followed by a bunch of garbage on Xs and Os.

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This boomer agrees with you.
"All hail, Blue and Gold,
Thy colors unfold
O'r loyal Californians whose hearts are true and bold"

I didn't think the TV announcer for this game was anything special but what did people think of the game analyst, Tim Welsh? I'd never heard him before but liked his commentary. At times he got a little "Rafteryesque", but overall made more useful and incisive comments than the Pac12 guys including Ben "Call me Nostradamus" Braun. This doesn't mean I'm going to start watching Clemson v Duke games just to hear Welsh, but I hope he does some more Cal games.

parentswerebears said:

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In response, Barsad: it doesn't really matter. Every losing season makes fans less and less interested. I am not a rich guy, but there was a time when I would get to Haas for 2-3 games a season because it was fun and I felt a connection to the players and coaches. Now, I don't know the kids, barely follow the team, and when I do check in, there's a game like Pitt waiting for me. It's not fun to go to Haas to see them get kicked in the nuts by way better teams, especially when we have a collection of new guys who probably won't be here next year.

The more we lose like this, the less I care. And I'm not alone. I'm seeing diehard blues here who are barely hanging on. When Bearister's post don't have a tinge of sarcasm and fun, you know it's bad.

It just makes me sad. And the wait until next year schtick is wearing thin. The team needs to win now, or the university just needs to call it as it is- we don't belong in the NBA developmental league.

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I grew up in Berkeley as did my step-father, who flunked out of Cal once, was reinstated and dropped out a second time, and ultimately was a UC employee for 25 years. He had no real interest in sports, but when I'd come home from yet another Cal loss, his greeting with a big grin was always, "Wait til next year!"

parentswerebears said:

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I'm seeing diehard blues here who are barely hanging on. When Bearister's post don't have a tinge of sarcasm and fun, you know it's bad.

It just makes me sad. And the wait until next year schtick is wearing thin.

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If there's one thing I'm not worried about, it's Bearister suddenly losing his sarcasm. Old dog, no new tricks.
Two questions you might want to point inward:
- If you're still bothering to post here, is that "not caring" or "caring"?
- Is Madsen responsible for you not caring, or are you responsible?
That's why there's a term for fair-weather fans… we root for the Bears even when they're at the bottom of the barrel.

parentswerebears said:

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In response, Barsad: it doesn't really matter. Every losing season makes fans less and less interested. I am not a rich guy, but there was a time when I would get to Haas for 2-3 games a season because it was fun and I felt a connection to the players and coaches. Now, I don't know the kids, barely follow the team, and when I do check in, there's a game like Pitt waiting for me. It's not fun to go to Haas to see them get kicked in the nuts by way better teams, especially when we have a collection of new guys who probably won't be here next year.

The more we lose like this, the less I care. And I'm not alone. I'm seeing diehard blues here who are barely hanging on. When Bearister's post don't have a tinge of sarcasm and fun, you know it's bad.

It just makes me sad. And the wait until next year schtick is wearing thin. The team needs to win now, or the university just needs to call it as it is- we don't belong in the NBA developmental league.

---

This.

I have a Frosh at cal and I LOVE (I mean LOVE) Haas/Harmon Basketball. Have I planned a January/February trip yet? Nope. Because while I WILL come up to see him much more likely it will be planned around a warriors game.

I really do believe, at my core, that the old days of the Third way are long gone and never coming back. Third way? You COULD forge a path that was different than the basketball/football factories and still have fun. You might not make it to a 4 team play off or get <4 seed at the dance but you could make a Holiday Bowl now and again and sometimes get in with a 7 seed. You could watch a player (Jorge) develop over time and be happy to see him compete (and win!!!) conference POY as a Senior. That made it fun.

Where we are now in the (semi)-Pro world of NCAA revenue sports is not that. PLayers are here for a year (or 2) - see Mendoza). We turn the roster over every year in BB. We KNOW (or at least I do) that Wilkerson is going to have a TON of bag thrown at him next year and good luck holding him if we don't come close to matching. Then it is reload/restart.

Thus the ONLY metric that matters (if that matters) is W-L and being able to do it QUICKLY with rosters that turn over each and every year.

We don't know (but there are hints) that in that world what Madsen is not getting done is the number 1 (2 and 3?) job for a P4 coach in the modern era - raising NIL money to build roster talent. SB's pleas for the program and no specific eye popping match is a sign (not definitive evidence but a sign) that this isn't in the cards for Cal hoops.

I hope I am wrong. Madsen oozes personal charisma. But until they don't give up 90 points and show the ability to sniff a 500 record I fear we will rinse and repeat.

PS - This is why I am a kicker fan. I don't know (and this years UCSB team is "meh" and getting killed by the NIL-less UCSD) if he is a good coach. There are too many rumors, however, to dismiss that he is LOVED by deep pocketed alumni who want to see him succeed. Opening that spiggot, in the new world, is paramount. If you don't like that then get on the "SCT Drop Down" bandwagon cause that is the world we are now in.

barsad said:

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That's why there's a term for fair-weather fans… we root for the Bears even when they're at the bottom of the barrel.

---

I think your inward question is whether we root (and care) about Bears who are here for a year and then gone? This is the new world - I hope you like watching Wilkerson this year cause he is going to get a 7 figure offer next and lets hope he loves Cal enough to give them a Berkeley discount. We should start a thread on "Which program will it piss you off the most" for his landing place. I am picking Zona.

Gotta stay will the mother ship

Attend at least one Cal MBB or WBB game!

I didn't attend one hoop game during my hitch at Cal (1972-1976). I think the Bears had a total 15 or 16 conference wins that entire 4 years. I never missed a Bears football game, however (Ferragamo, Bart, Roth, Muncie, etc.).
I have had season hoop tickets since 1987 (got my wife's and my name etched on the Haas foyer wall) and had missed attending very few games until 2020. I still have the tickets but have not been back. My wife and I may check out a couple of weekend day games this season.

I will repeat the recipe for the broth that killed Cal hoop interest:

Cuonzo leaving the cupboard bare; Wyking Jones setting program record of -16 in a row; Covid; Mark Fox tying the school record of -16 in a row; NIL; The Portal and the death of the Conference of Champions.*


*We were so lucky to have Jaylon Tyson administer chest comprehensions to the almost corpse for one season.

barsad said:

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Being the voice of reason in a Bear Insider thread is like whispering the alma mater on BART while it's going through the tunnel and hoping others will sing along, but I'll give it a try.
All the Madsen hate is unwarranted. Save it for a year from now if it looks like we'll have a third losing season. The guy gets three shots at this, that's the least we can do as fans given how many chances we gave the Axis of Terrible (Cuonzo-Wyking-Fox).
We're losing because the talent we thought we had isn't there. We're down two guys who should be starting (Omot and JOJ), and there is no floor leader. Our big men are small (metaphorically), and our shooters are…. what shooters?
This doesn't mean the season is doomed, just that a Zen-like patience is called for (we will win at least 6 more games, but stop dreaming of the postseason).
We will not win because Madsen calls a time out at X:XX instead of X:XX, or spends 5 more minutes talking to Dort about how to move your feet.
Ultimately he will pay the price if the team keeps up its losing ways, that's how coaching works. The only thing worse than watching Cal give up leads is reading a post that starts with: "I'm not an Xs and Os guy, BUT" … followed by a bunch of garbage on Xs and Os.

---

Cuonzo was terrible? Cuonzo got us a 4 or 5 seed in the tourney. I'd take that. How he left sucked but otherwise, his results were pretty good. He got Jalen Brown and Rabb to come to Cal. And I could be wrong but didn't one of his teams win all of its home games one season?

Fully admit I'm impatient. No f'ing way I'm going to be zen-like for sure. I know Madsen will get at least 3 years (likely many more) because people love his enthusiasm and he is a good guy. I will tell you that whatever enthusiasm I had for the program when he joined has pretty much gone way. I still go to almost every game but it is very, very tough to watch. We play so poorly prepared. I don't like it but I'm resigned to this reality.

Madsen needs to get better faster. I don't know. Maybe surround himself with guys who know what they are doing? There is a distinct pattern since he got here and that is LONG periods of not scoring. Happens in just about every game. Doesn't matter who the opponent is. Yes, other teams go through funks but the duration and frequency of their funks is much less than ours. There is a reason. Part of it is talent as you point out. But it isn't all of it. Keep in mind that Pitt was missing its leading scorer. Missouri was also missing a key player. And you can't tell me that we aren't more talented than Cornell and Furd. Those games were embarrassing.

Right now, Madsen is basically a slightly better version of Fox/Jones (slightly better recruiting and more alumni engagement and enthusiasm). I don't give a crap about him handing out pizzas on Sproul, or not swearing, or sounding positive on post-game interviews, or traveling to Asia, or schmoozing with donors. In fact, those things make me wonder whether he is focusing too much on PR and not enough on coaching. I want more Ws. Period.

In my mind, the season is pretty much doomed. No postseason as you point out. I would have loved for us to be slightly >.500 to show some progress and have some momentum for next season. NIT? Sure. I would have been satisfied (maybe even happy) with that at the beginning of the season. >6 wins out of the remaining 18 games? I sincerely hope so. That would put us at say 14-17 if we win 7 more games (we were 13-19 last season). A one game improvement over last season is pretty much doom in my opinion. The problem is, I don't see us winning 6 more games. Maybe 3-4. We're going backwards.

Curious as to why you think next season will be different. I want to believe. I really do.

Cuonzo Martin's Cal legacy:

2014-2015 Season
They finished the season 18-15, 7-11 in Pac-12 play to finish in a three-way tie for eighth place. They advanced to the quarterfinals of the Pac-12 tournament where they lost to Arizona.

2015-2016 Season
They finished the season 23-11, 12-6 in Pac-12 play to finish in a tie for third place. They defeated Oregon State in the quarterfinals of the Pac-12 tournament to advance to the semifinals where they lost to Utah. They received an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament where they lost in the first round to Hawaii.

2016-2017 Season
They finished the season 21-13 10-8 in Pac-12 play to finish in a tie for fifth place. They defeated Oregon State and Utah in Pac-12 tournament to advance to the semifinals where they lost to Oregon. They were one of the last four teams not selected for the NCAA tournament and thus received a No. 1 seed in the National Invitation Tournament where they lost in the first round to Cal State Bakersfield.
-Wikipedia

Bear8995 said:

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barsad said:

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Being the voice of reason in a Bear Insider thread is like whispering the alma mater on BART while it's going through the tunnel and hoping others will sing along, but I'll give it a try.
All the Madsen hate is unwarranted. Save it for a year from now if it looks like we'll have a third losing season. The guy gets three shots at this, that's the least we can do as fans given how many chances we gave the Axis of Terrible (Cuonzo-Wyking-Fox).
We're losing because the talent we thought we had isn't there. We're down two guys who should be starting (Omot and JOJ), and there is no floor leader. Our big men are small (metaphorically), and our shooters are…. what shooters?
This doesn't mean the season is doomed, just that a Zen-like patience is called for (we will win at least 6 more games, but stop dreaming of the postseason).
We will not win because Madsen calls a time out at X:XX instead of X:XX, or spends 5 more minutes talking to Dort about how to move your feet.
Ultimately he will pay the price if the team keeps up its losing ways, that's how coaching works. The only thing worse than watching Cal give up leads is reading a post that starts with: "I'm not an Xs and Os guy, BUT" … followed by a bunch of garbage on Xs and Os.

---

Cuonzo was terrible? Cuonzo got us a 4 or 5 seed in the tourney. I'd take that. How he left sucked but otherwise, his results were pretty good. He got Jalen Brown and Rabb to come to Cal. And I could be wrong but didn't one of his teams win all of its home games one season?

Fully admit I'm impatient. No f'ing way I'm going to be zen-like for sure. I know Madsen will get at least 3 years (likely many more) because people love his enthusiasm and he is a good guy. I will tell you that whatever enthusiasm I had for the program when he joined has pretty much gone way. I still go to almost every game but it is very, very tough to watch. We play so poorly prepared. I don't like it but I'm resigned to this reality.

Madsen needs to get better faster. I don't know. Maybe surround himself with guys who know what they are doing? There is a distinct pattern since he got here and that is LONG periods of not scoring. Happens in just about every game. Doesn't matter who the opponent is. Yes, other teams go through funks but the duration and frequency of their funks is much less than ours. There is a reason. Part of it is talent as you point out. But it isn't all of it. Keep in mind that Pitt was missing its leading scorer. Missouri was also missing a key player. And you can't tell me that we aren't more talented than Cornell and Furd. Those games were embarrassing.

Right now, Madsen is basically a slightly better version of Fox/Jones (slightly better recruiting and more alumni engagement and enthusiasm). I don't give a crap about him handing out pizzas on Sproul, or not swearing, or sounding positive on post-game interviews, or traveling to Asia, or schmoozing with donors. In fact, those things make me wonder whether he is focusing too much on PR and not enough on coaching. I want more Ws. Period.

In my mind, the season is pretty much doomed. No postseason as you point out. I would have loved for us to be slightly >.500 to show some progress and have some momentum for next season. NIT? Sure. I would have been satisfied (maybe even happy) with that at the beginning of the season. >6 wins out of the remaining 18 games? I sincerely hope so. That would put us at say 14-17 if we win 7 more games (we were 13-19 last season). A one game improvement over last season is pretty much doom in my opinion. The problem is, I don't see us winning 6 more games. Maybe 3-4. We're going backwards.

Curious as to why you think next season will be different. I want to believe. I really do.

---

I challenge you to tell me you "don't give a crap" about the following:

My sources tell me that the makers of Crocs are coming up with four different custom-designed pairs for Madsen! One for practices, one for home games, one for away games and one special pair to wear for his game-day radio interviews!

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Bear8995 said:

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barsad said:

---

Being the voice of reason in a Bear Insider thread is like whispering the alma mater on BART while it's going through the tunnel and hoping others will sing along, but I'll give it a try.
All the Madsen hate is unwarranted. Save it for a year from now if it looks like we'll have a third losing season. The guy gets three shots at this, that's the least we can do as fans given how many chances we gave the Axis of Terrible (Cuonzo-Wyking-Fox).
We're losing because the talent we thought we had isn't there. We're down two guys who should be starting (Omot and JOJ), and there is no floor leader. Our big men are small (metaphorically), and our shooters are…. what shooters?
This doesn't mean the season is doomed, just that a Zen-like patience is called for (we will win at least 6 more games, but stop dreaming of the postseason).
We will not win because Madsen calls a time out at X:XX instead of X:XX, or spends 5 more minutes talking to Dort about how to move your feet.
Ultimately he will pay the price if the team keeps up its losing ways, that's how coaching works. The only thing worse than watching Cal give up leads is reading a post that starts with: "I'm not an Xs and Os guy, BUT" … followed by a bunch of garbage on Xs and Os.

---

Cuonzo was terrible? Cuonzo got us a 4 or 5 seed in the tourney. I'd take that. How he left sucked but otherwise, his results were pretty good. He got Jalen Brown and Rabb to come to Cal. And I could be wrong but didn't one of his teams win all of its home games one season?

Fully admit I'm impatient. No f'ing way I'm going to be zen-like for sure. I know Madsen will get at least 3 years (likely many more) because people love his enthusiasm and he is a good guy. I will tell you that whatever enthusiasm I had for the program when he joined has pretty much gone way. I still go to almost every game but it is very, very tough to watch. We play so poorly prepared. I don't like it but I'm resigned to this reality.

Madsen needs to get better faster. I don't know. Maybe surround himself with guys who know what they are doing? There is a distinct pattern since he got here and that is LONG periods of not scoring. Happens in just about every game. Doesn't matter who the opponent is. Yes, other teams go through funks but the duration and frequency of their funks is much less than ours. There is a reason. Part of it is talent as you point out. But it isn't all of it. Keep in mind that Pitt was missing its leading scorer. Missouri was also missing a key player. And you can't tell me that we aren't more talented than Cornell and Furd. Those games were embarrassing.

Right now, Madsen is basically a slightly better version of Fox/Jones (slightly better recruiting and more alumni engagement and enthusiasm). I don't give a crap about him handing out pizzas on Sproul, or not swearing, or sounding positive on post-game interviews, or traveling to Asia, or schmoozing with donors. In fact, those things make me wonder whether he is focusing too much on PR and not enough on coaching. I want more Ws. Period.

In my mind, the season is pretty much doomed. No postseason as you point out. I would have loved for us to be slightly >.500 to show some progress and have some momentum for next season. NIT? Sure. I would have been satisfied (maybe even happy) with that at the beginning of the season. >6 wins out of the remaining 18 games? I sincerely hope so. That would put us at say 14-17 if we win 7 more games (we were 13-19 last season). A one game improvement over last season is pretty much doom in my opinion. The problem is, I don't see us winning 6 more games. Maybe 3-4. We're going backwards.

Curious as to why you think next season will be different. I want to believe. I really do.

---

I can go along with the majority of your post. But when you state that Madsen is a "slightly better version of Fox/Jones.." you miss the mark. Not because you underrate Madsen, but rather because you give Fox/Jones WAY too much credit.

---

Too bad I can only give one star to a post. Yours deserves 87 stars! Madsen may be a disappointment, but he hasn't burned down the program the way Wyking and the MFer did. I'm convinced that Fox just ignored the parts of his job that he didn't feel like doing, betting that Knowlton didn't have the cajones or $$ to fire him.

Mark Fox was the rare twofer: A grossly overpaid coach for his abilities with a nasty unrepentant attitude.

He made me pine for the days when Hue Jackson would take sole responsibility for every Raiders' loss in the post game pressies…..*

*….as opposed to Derek Carr who occasionally would say, "That loss was on me, but a lot of people get mad at me when I say that."…..when everyone at the pressie is thinking, "No, Derek, actually nobody is mad at you for saying that because almost every Raider loss has a path to your doorstep because you choke at crunch time."

Crocs are the worst. Total BDW.

Been a fan since Kidd. Keep getting disappointed. We have sucked so badly for so long, I am sad about it. The fact that college basketball has become a semipro developmental league plus us being so bad are what is killing my interest. And I often wonder why I still post. The Brokeback mt quote "why can't I quit you" comes to my mind every time I'm here. I guess it's habit. Probably should break it.

HearstMining said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

---

Bear8995 said:

---

barsad said:

---

Being the voice of reason in a Bear Insider thread is like whispering the alma mater on BART while it's going through the tunnel and hoping others will sing along, but I'll give it a try.
All the Madsen hate is unwarranted. Save it for a year from now if it looks like we'll have a third losing season. The guy gets three shots at this, that's the least we can do as fans given how many chances we gave the Axis of Terrible (Cuonzo-Wyking-Fox).
We're losing because the talent we thought we had isn't there. We're down two guys who should be starting (Omot and JOJ), and there is no floor leader. Our big men are small (metaphorically), and our shooters are…. what shooters?
This doesn't mean the season is doomed, just that a Zen-like patience is called for (we will win at least 6 more games, but stop dreaming of the postseason).
We will not win because Madsen calls a time out at X:XX instead of X:XX, or spends 5 more minutes talking to Dort about how to move your feet.
Ultimately he will pay the price if the team keeps up its losing ways, that's how coaching works. The only thing worse than watching Cal give up leads is reading a post that starts with: "I'm not an Xs and Os guy, BUT" … followed by a bunch of garbage on Xs and Os.

---

Cuonzo was terrible? Cuonzo got us a 4 or 5 seed in the tourney. I'd take that. How he left sucked but otherwise, his results were pretty good. He got Jalen Brown and Rabb to come to Cal. And I could be wrong but didn't one of his teams win all of its home games one season?

Fully admit I'm impatient. No f'ing way I'm going to be zen-like for sure. I know Madsen will get at least 3 years (likely many more) because people love his enthusiasm and he is a good guy. I will tell you that whatever enthusiasm I had for the program when he joined has pretty much gone way. I still go to almost every game but it is very, very tough to watch. We play so poorly prepared. I don't like it but I'm resigned to this reality.

Madsen needs to get better faster. I don't know. Maybe surround himself with guys who know what they are doing? There is a distinct pattern since he got here and that is LONG periods of not scoring. Happens in just about every game. Doesn't matter who the opponent is. Yes, other teams go through funks but the duration and frequency of their funks is much less than ours. There is a reason. Part of it is talent as you point out. But it isn't all of it. Keep in mind that Pitt was missing its leading scorer. Missouri was also missing a key player. And you can't tell me that we aren't more talented than Cornell and Furd. Those games were embarrassing.

Right now, Madsen is basically a slightly better version of Fox/Jones (slightly better recruiting and more alumni engagement and enthusiasm). I don't give a crap about him handing out pizzas on Sproul, or not swearing, or sounding positive on post-game interviews, or traveling to Asia, or schmoozing with donors. In fact, those things make me wonder whether he is focusing too much on PR and not enough on coaching. I want more Ws. Period.

In my mind, the season is pretty much doomed. No postseason as you point out. I would have loved for us to be slightly >.500 to show some progress and have some momentum for next season. NIT? Sure. I would have been satisfied (maybe even happy) with that at the beginning of the season. >6 wins out of the remaining 18 games? I sincerely hope so. That would put us at say 14-17 if we win 7 more games (we were 13-19 last season). A one game improvement over last season is pretty much doom in my opinion. The problem is, I don't see us winning 6 more games. Maybe 3-4. We're going backwards.

Curious as to why you think next season will be different. I want to believe. I really do.

---

I can go along with the majority of your post. But when you state that Madsen is a "slightly better version of Fox/Jones.." you miss the mark. Not because you underrate Madsen, but rather because you give Fox/Jones WAY too much credit.

---

Too bad I can only give one star to a post. Yours deserves 87 stars! Madsen may be a disappointment, but he hasn't burned down the program the way Wyking and the MFer did. I'm convinced that Fox just ignored the parts of his job that he didn't feel like doing, betting that Knowlton didn't have the cajones or $$ to fire him.

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OK OK, Jones was really bad. Fox was a bad fit from the get go, but he did go 14-18 in his first season (then 9-20 (COVID season) and then 12-20 before his final disastrous season). So Fox's first season isn't all that different from Madsen's 13-17. Let's see how this season ends. If Madsen somehow manages to go 14-17, I would characterize that as slightly better than Fox's 12-20 (I'm disregarding the COVID season).

bearister said:

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Mark Fox was the rare twofer: A grossly overpaid coach for his abilities with a nasty unrepentant attitude.

He made me pine for the days when Hue Jackson would take sole responsibility for every Raiders' loss in the post game pressies…..*

*….as opposed to Derek Carr who occasionally would say, "That loss was on me, but a lot of people get mad at me when I say that."…..when everyone at the pressie is thinking, "No, Derek, actually nobody is mad at you for saying that because almost every Raider loss has a path to your doorstep because you choke at crunch time."

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My personal moment with Mark Fox:

His final Cal year, I felt so bad for anybody connected to the program that, towards the end of halftime, I would sometimes drag my kids down to the hallway in Haas that the team has to cross through to get back onto the court. We would cheer for them up close, 'cause they needed a little support. I mean. who doesn't?

After the players, who seemed to appreciate it, the Assistant (the one who was not Marty Wilson) gives me a thumbs up. Here comes Fox...

Me: "Go get 'em, Coach! We got this!" (not because I was a Fox Fan, but because I'm a Cal fan)
Fox: (just gives me sort of a dirty look)


That experience kinda turned me off to ever doing that again, but I'm guessing Madsen would come over to my kids, ask them how school's going, etc. (not like that would take time away from drawing up brilliant plays, so why not, if you're MM)

Big C said:

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bearister said:

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Mark Fox was the rare twofer: A grossly overpaid coach for his abilities with a nasty unrepentant attitude.

He made me pine for the days when Hue Jackson would take sole responsibility for every Raiders' loss in the post game pressies…..*

*….as opposed to Derek Carr who occasionally would say, "That loss was on me, but a lot of people get mad at me when I say that."…..when everyone at the pressie is thinking, "No, Derek, actually nobody is mad at you for saying that because almost every Raider loss has a path to your doorstep because you choke at crunch time."

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My personal moment with Mark Fox:

His final Cal year, I felt so bad for anybody connected to the program that, towards the end of halftime, I would sometimes drag my kids down to the hallway in Haas that the team has to cross through to get back onto the court. We would cheer for them up close, 'cause they needed a little support. I mean. who doesn't?

After the players, who seemed to appreciate it, the Assistant (the one who was not Marty Wilson) gives me a thumbs up. Here comes Fox...

Me: "Go get 'em, Coach! We got this!" (not because I was a Fox Fan, but because I'm a Cal fan)
Fox: (just gives me a dirty look)


That experience kinda turned me off to ever doing that again, but I'm guessing Madsen would come over to my kids, ask them how school's going, etc. (not like he otherwise would be drawing up brilliant plays, so why not, if you're MM)

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Fox was a jerk

His 1st or 2nd pre season game after he arrived: My wife and I get back to the car and turn on the post game radio interview. Announcer: "Well, you got the win coach but it wasn't always pretty."

Coach Fox: "Yes, it was an ugly win, but like I've always said, an ugly win is like an ugly girlfriend…… at least you have a girlfriend."

I look at my wife in horror and say, "Does he realize he is in Berkeley?"

I never heard or read a thing about him saying that. It slipped under the radar.

Fox was grumpy

My one interaction was when the team were leaving the court after a win… the players were high fiving fans

I try to congratulate Fox for the win. He puts his hands on both my shoulders and moves me out of his way away to get past me (with a frown on his face)

Cindy and Mark Fox are my friends (I even received a nice note from Mark on KY MBB stationary, thanking me for my loyal support during the tough days). Mark loves being at KY where MBB is the King and very much appreciated. As often is the case, different folks have different vibes. Perhaps, I took the time to get to know Cindy and Mark personally and to breach Mark's veneer. Cindy had several pregame meals in the Courtside Club with me and with my sons and grandsons who were my guest. Cindy was engaging and warm, always showing genuine interest in my guests. One time Cindy mentioned candidly that Mark was taking the losses very hard and suffering.

As a side note, Mark received almost no support from Cal Athletic as Canzano reported in his investigatory and well-documented article that highlighted Cal's MBB program making a $940,000 profit that was spent elsewhere, while providing the worst amount of fiscal support in the PAC 12. Knowlton set Mark up to fail IMO by not providing even the minimal amount of funds that he needed to run a successful program. Knowing that, Madsen wisely negotiated a deal before accepting the HC job that had Cal Athletics roughly double its financial support for the MBB program and to provide other assistance that Fox never received.

Madsen is special and takes the time to be user friendly to alums and students on a regular basis. IMO he will be successful if we are patient. Unfortunately, a few of his key transfer portal recruits have not worked out, like Blackshear, who is a bust (perhaps due to not being 100% physically), and Sisoko and Dort who seem to be not as good as advertised.

Who is this Mr. Fox? The only one I know is a particularly hungry animated character in a Wes Anderson film. I can't remember anyone named Fox ever being associated with the Cal basketball program. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Basketball Mind.
Give it a rest, people.

Harky4 said:

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Cindy and Mark Fox are my friends (I even received a nice note from Mark on KY MBB stationary, thanking me for my loyal support during the tough days). Mark loves being at KY where MBB is the King and very much appreciated. As often is the case, different folks have different vibes. Perhaps, I took the time to get to know Cindy and Mark personally and to breach Mark's veneer. Cindy had several pregame meals in the Courtside Club with me and with my sons and grandsons who were my guest. Cindy was engaging and warm, always showing genuine interest in my guests. One time Cindy mentioned candidly that Mark was taking the losses very hard and suffering.

As a side note, Mark received almost no support from Cal Athletic as Canzano reported in his investigatory and well-documented article that highlighted Cal's MBB program making a $940,000 profit that was spent elsewhere, while providing the worst amount of fiscal support in the PAC 12. Knowlton set Mark up to fail IMO by not providing even the minimal amount of funds that he needed to run a successful program. Knowing that, Madsen wisely negotiated a deal before accepting the HC job that had Cal Athletics roughly double its financial support for the MBB program and to provide other assistance that Fox never received.

Madsen is special and takes the time to be user friendly to alums and students on a regular basis. IMO he will be successful if we are patient. Unfortunately, a few of his key transfer portal recruits have not worked out, like Blackshear, who is a bust (perhaps due to not being 100% physically), and Sisoko and Dort who seem to be not as good as advertised.

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Harky,

Appreciate the insights.

Win or lose, I always support the players and coaches (which was extremely hard during the Wyking seasons). I try to give every coach and player a fair shot and never call for a coach to be fired.

Even the negative story I told above showed that I was trying to support him by congratulating him for the win.

As an experienced coach, his asst coach role at UK is good for him. He can be the hardliner disciplinary type who focuses on defense (much better fit than his NIL role). I wish him well.

Harky4 said:

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Cindy and Mark Fox are my friends (I even received a nice note from Mark on KY MBB stationary, thanking me for my loyal support during the tough days). Mark loves being at KY where MBB is the King and very much appreciated. As often is the case, different folks have different vibes. Perhaps, I took the time to get to know Cindy and Mark personally and to breach Mark's veneer. Cindy had several pregame meals in the Courtside Club with me and with my sons and grandsons who were my guest. Cindy was engaging and warm, always showing genuine interest in my guests. One time Cindy mentioned candidly that Mark was taking the losses very hard and suffering.

As a side note, Mark received almost no support from Cal Athletic as Canzano reported in his investigatory and well-documented article that highlighted Cal's MBB program making a $940,000 profit that was spent elsewhere, while providing the worst amount of fiscal support in the PAC 12. Knowlton set Mark up to fail IMO by not providing even the minimal amount of funds that he needed to run a successful program. Knowing that, Madsen wisely negotiated a deal before accepting the HC job that had Cal Athletics roughly double its financial support for the MBB program and to provide other assistance that Fox never received.

Madsen is special and takes the time to be user friendly to alums and students on a regular basis. IMO he will be successful if we are patient. Unfortunately, a few of his key transfer portal recruits have not worked out, like Blackshear, who is a bust (perhaps due to not being 100% physically), and Sisoko and Dort who seem to be not as good as advertised.

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I want to think that Blacksher's situation is injury-related, as he looked good in a few games early in the season (at least on the offensive end).

Harky4 said:

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Cindy and Mark Fox are my friends (I even received a nice note from Mark on KY MBB stationary, thanking me for my loyal support during the tough days). Mark loves being at KY where MBB is the King and very much appreciated. As often is the case, different folks have different vibes. Perhaps, I took the time to get to know Cindy and Mark personally and to breach Mark's veneer. Cindy had several pregame meals in the Courtside Club with me and with my sons and grandsons who were my guest. Cindy was engaging and warm, always showing genuine interest in my guests. One time Cindy mentioned candidly that Mark was taking the losses very hard and suffering.

As a side note, Mark received almost no support from Cal Athletic as Canzano reported in his investigatory and well-documented article that highlighted Cal's MBB program making a $940,000 profit that was spent elsewhere, while providing the worst amount of fiscal support in the PAC 12. Knowlton set Mark up to fail IMO by not providing even the minimal amount of funds that he needed to run a successful program. Knowing that, Madsen wisely negotiated a deal before accepting the HC job that had Cal Athletics roughly double its financial support for the MBB program and to provide other assistance that Fox never received.

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I have no doubt you took the time to breach Fox's veneer, but I also think Fox took the effort to get to know you because you are a fairly significant donor. I don't doubt he took the losses hard, but I've also heard enough stories of him being less than nice (when he didn't need to be) to folks around the program to stand behind my statement. Never met his wife. She sounds lovely.

As I noted, Fox was a bad fit from the get go. He may not have received much support from the athletic dept (which makes me shake my head). Perhaps this was Knowlton's way of building support from donors to get rid of him. At the same time, this sounds like more excuses. The low point for me was when they flashed the graphic on the scoreboard about how many games players missed due to injury in order to justify the poor results (at Fox's insistence). That was simply embarrassing.

Cal's MBB program was sent into a death spiral by incompetent AD Mike Williams' hiring of uber incompetent HC Wyking Jones. Mark Madsen seems to be trying to reverse that misfortune.