cal's monster class deux

OaktownBear
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tsubamoto2001;842839101 said:

Your logic is sillier than the other poster. Cal Basketball has taken 3 grad transfers. You argue that Ivy League guys like Tarwater and Mullins were given preference by the grad programs and Kerr (a walk-on who barely played, BTW) was given preference for...what exactly? Pure silliness. It's clear that the standards are high. Cool. Whatever. But it's pure BS to think that the grad schools are in some way helping the hoops program.


1. It is clear that the coaching staff wanted Tarwater and Mullins
2. I have no idea regarding Kerr's academic record, but I think he was clearly here for the connection with his father and that was the benefit to the program, not his playing ability.

The fact that they weren't Jason Kidd does not mean they didn't benefit the basketball program nor does it mean that benefit wasn't considered in the admissions process. The fact that you want our grad schools to behave like Oregon doesn't change this.

And you still haven't explained why they should do it. Let me explain this too you. Most Cal grad programs will face a much harsher backlash from the people who matter to them if they take academically unqualified candidates than they will for refusing to bend their admissions process to take a basketball player.
socaliganbear
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tsubamoto2001;842839106 said:

Why is the is the grad transfer route such an issue to you? It's part of the landscape nowadays, whether you like it or not, just like the one-and-done. To say "well, we've gone to the well one too many times" is doesn't make sense, especially considering the circumstances of this particular offseason with Martin. And let's take a look at who we brought in. Tarwater graduated from Cornell, Mullins from Columbia. Could they not have made it into the grad programs on academic merit? How about Kerr, who had a 3.76 GPA at USD? It's clear that their admissions weren't entirely basketball related.


It's not an issue for me. I'm fine with it actually. But blatantly lying about whether Cal basketball has gotten help from grad programs to get guys in is another matter. They obviously did. Getting into grad school is a long and thought out process for most people. Many programs require specific course work. The school of public health has course and work reqs for their different programs. Then there's the matter of GRE scores. Then theres the whole December deadline, which is well before all the bball grad transfers state their intention in early spring, post march madness. So yes, they very clearly had help getting in.
OaktownBear
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tsubamoto2001;842839106 said:

Why is the is the grad transfer route such an issue to you? It's part of the landscape nowadays, whether you like it or not, just like the one-and-done. To say "well, we've gone to the well one too many times" is doesn't make sense, especially considering the circumstances of this particular offseason with Martin. And let's take a look at who we brought in. Tarwater graduated from Cornell, Mullins from Columbia. Could they not have made it into the grad programs on academic merit? How about Kerr, who had a 3.76 GPA at USD? It's clear that their admissions weren't entirely basketball related.


I think the grad programs should be kept out of it, but in any case, there is a fundamental difference between admission to the undergraduate program which is basically done at the university level with the criteria being fulfilling the UC mission and benefiting the campus as a whole, and admission to a graduate program which is based on advancing that department's field of study. If the athletic department wants grad slots to fill with athletes, they should create them themselves, not ask existing departments to give up slots for someone who is not serious about that department's field of study.

These grad schools turn out leaders in their fields. That is their goal. All slots in the physics department should be given out based on turning out leaders in the field of physics. You want a basketball player, get on the athletic department and the administration to come up with a program that can house them. Don't get on the case of Cal grad departments because they don't think a basketball player adds to their program.
UrsaMajor
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The problem, as I see it, is that there are occasional athletes who genuinely want to study--Dennis Gates comes to mind (for those who don't remember, Dennis graduated in 3 years expressly so he could do a year of graduate school while still on scholarship)--in grad school. Then there are those who see the grad transfer rule as a way to get another year of eligibility at a different school without having to attend class or study. The question is: should these be accommodated? Granted, we're talking about 1-2 a year in football and 1-2 max in basketball. So, on the one hand, you could argue that 2-3 "students" won't harm a program such as Public Health or Social Welfare, which have relatively large classes. OTOH, why should these academic departments cater to IA and participate in what is essentially a corrupt enterprise. I agree with Oaktown that the solution--if we want one--is an M.A. in sports management administered by IA that can accommodate these "scholar-athletes."
Jeff82
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Long before we ask academics to bend over for athletics, we should secure reasonable concessions like allowing scheduling flexibility to accommodate the necessary training/playing schedule of athletes.

This is a far bigger problem than whether departments assist with grad transfers. As I understand it, the lack of scheduling flexibility is partly why so many athletes end up majoring in American Studies, because they have to find classes that can be scheduled around their athletic commitments. With the ability to record lectures, etc., the only measure of classroom success should be how you do on the assignments, as a reflection of mastering the material, not whether you show up in person to kiss the prof's rear at class.
Shocky1
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there were significant conversations involving cal's school of public health before davis webb got accepted into the grad program

with a 3.0+ gpa at an academically mediocre school like texas tech he had zero chance of acceptance without his football skills...i sat by davis (yeah he's an avid reader of the monster) for a half at one of the basketball games late in the season at haas & he told me he appreciated the academic opportunity & that he earned a 3.8 gpa during his time in berkeley

let's be real here, unless a 5th year graduate transfer prospect is from an ivy league school like grant mullins & dwight tarwater or an exceptional student like nick kerr at a well regarded school like the university of san diego, the basketball program faces terrible odds of getting a targeted player accepted into one of the grad programs at the #1 ranked public (#3 overall) university in the world...berkeley's grad schools accepts the brightest of the brightest candidates in the world, gems like brenden glapion are accepted, not the hundreds of basketball playing dumb azzs that are changing schools for next season

congrats to davis on getting selected in the 3rd round, 87th overall pick, in the 2017 nfl draft...he's gonna get minted in the league




davis webb got a texas accent#:cool:
Shocky1
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young ivee at the 2017 nba combine:

219.6 lbs
6.8% body fat
6'10" with shoes, 6'875" shoeless
7'1.5 wing span
9'1" standing reach
32.5 vertical leap

cal's next lottery candidate (the rock is still alive)#:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo
HoopDreams
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[SIZE=5]Ivan Rabb at the NBA Combine[/SIZE]





Shocky1
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congrats young ivee on your 6.8% body fat, your gonna be a real crowd pleaser at the 2017 nba draft day

that's why i work on my yoga/meditation practice 5-6 times a week, nobody wants to be alky looking fat azzs with tummy rolls like lee & paula, that's criminal according to the attorney general




me & ivan are black beetles#:buttkick:
Admin
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tsubamoto2001;842839101 said:

Your logic is sillier than the other poster. Cal Basketball has taken 3 grad transfers. You argue that Ivy League guys like Tarwater and Mullins were given preference by the grad programs and Kerr (a walk-on who barely played, BTW) was given preference for...what exactly? Pure silliness. It's clear that the standards are high. Cool. Whatever. But it's pure BS to think that the grad schools are in some way helping the hoops program.


Dial it down or a timeout's coming.
HoopDreams
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did the undisputed leader of this cal basketball team just show us the new UA uniforms?

HoopDreams
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[SIZE=5]7 seniors playing in their last home stand today and saturday:

[COLOR="#0000FF"]infielder Kylie Reed, pitcher Katie Sutherland-Finch, outfielder Vanessa Alvarez, catcher Annie Aldrete, pitcher Stephanie Trzcinski, outfielder Khala Taylor and catcher Alleah Laxamana[/COLOR] [/SIZE]

Mealpoints
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HoopDreams;842839171 said:

did the undisputed leader of this cal basketball team just show us the new UA uniforms?




They=haters??
tsubamoto2001
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Admin;842839168 said:

Dial it down or a timeout's coming.


I have no problem with "dialing it down", but the same should apply to everyone here, not just me.
joe amos yaks
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Admin;842839168 said:

Dial it down or a timeout's coming.


Just to prime the pump, I'm dialing it down...whatever that means.
Admin
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tsubamoto2001;842839199 said:

I have no problem with "dialing it down", but the same should apply to everyone here, not just me.


It would if anyone else called someone's logic silly and thoughts "pure bs."
bluesaxe
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I am in complete agreement with this post, and Ursa's post below pretty much sums of the state of things as I see them as well. The business of college sports has become divorced from college to a degree that in many places you might as well just call it minor league professional ball. Which is what it is, but it's not where I want Cal to go.

OaktownBear;842839049 said:

I'm not saying this derisively as you are entitled to your world view, but it is clear that you view the situation from a purely athletic circumstance and look at every NCAA question based on how it impacts athletes and sports teams, when I would say that universities are supposed to be there for education first and athletics second. If this were a professional sports league, I'd have no problem with saying that an athlete fulfills his commitment and can then bounce. I have no problem with the ethics of the athlete in this situation.

However, looking at if from the point of view of the university, yes I have a problem with the rule. Universities should not have to offer up their grad programs to keep a level playing field. It is just one more way that those universities that are willing to sacrifice academic emphasis in order to succeed in sports get an advantage to those that try and hold the line. The thing is with your "real mission is to earn profit" comment is that the rule you champion is the one that most benefits those universities that nakedly pursue profit instead of maintaining any semblance of an academic program. (not to mention the fact that most of these programs don't earn a profit. Cal basketball isn't earning much for the school at all. I'd argue more that the real mission of college revenue sports programs is to make alumni feel an overinflated sense of self importance based on the accomplishments of others).

So, yes, I think it is a problem asking grad schools to accept students who have zero intent of fulfilling the program. I think they were nave if they thought Webb was really going to do so. That will probably be the last time they fall for that. There is a difference between someone who goes to college, gets a great job offer, and leaves early and someone who never intends to actually fulfill the program at all.

Frankly, I'd be happier if the NCAA would just say, "you know what? Universities can offer a major in basketball. And a grad program too if they want. It is just as valid as any other vocational type of major." Let them earn credits in their field and make them take the general requirements that any other student has to take. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than going through a charade that requires taking a spot away from someone that actually wants to study in a field that the athlete doesn't give a damn about.

If Cal wants to take grad players for the sake of getting football/basketball players, the athletic department should work with the PE department to build some 1 year grad program for them. Academic grad programs should not be required to participate unwillingly.
bluesaxe
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Joe Cool Guy isn't in grad school.

89Bear;842839000 said:

How about departments just working together to help each other out some? I mean, Davis Webb was ONE guy. Can't the grad departments help the athletic program a tiny bit??? Look at the APR numbers. The coaches and staff must be working their butts off to get guys to class, study etc... To be true students as well as athletes. Joe Cool Guy in some frat probably has worse attendance, grades, etc...while partying the nights away. One basketball grad transfer would ruin the school???? Please!
bluesaxe
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I don't think I've ever seen anything that said Kerr got any push from the basketball program when he was admitted. I do believe that the basketball program did work with the School of Public Health regarding the other two. Who knows whether they get in without that. There's no way to find out unless you're in the department. But the basketball program was involved in the discussion. That suggests to me that they had some influence.

tsubamoto2001;842839101 said:

Your logic is sillier than the other poster. Cal Basketball has taken 3 grad transfers. You argue that Ivy League guys like Tarwater and Mullins were given preference by the grad programs and Kerr (a walk-on who barely played, BTW) was given preference for...what exactly? Pure silliness. It's clear that the standards are high. Cool. Whatever. But it's pure BS to think that the grad schools are in some way helping the hoops program.
Shocky1
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after official visits to berkeley, san diego, spokane & tucson, chase jeter is tripping to westwood with a final decision likely next week
socaltownie
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bluesaxe;842839256 said:

I don't think I've ever seen anything that said Kerr got any push from the basketball program when he was admitted. I do believe that the basketball program did work with the School of Public Health regarding the other two. Who knows whether they get in without that. There's no way to find out unless you're in the department. But the basketball program was involved in the discussion. That suggests to me that they had some influence.


What is interesting is that the School of PH now offers an on-line MA. My dad who taught there has long passed away and I don't have any more contacts to explore more fully. The key is that on-line programs are GENERALLY scalable - and if that is the route the grad transfers took it isn't necessarily the case that they "took" a slot from someone.

I think the bigger issue is that the grad transfer rule is an NCAA joke. If a kid wants to transfer, let them. 4 years of scholarship. Whatever they want to do. No sitting out. Think about it - if you transfer from X to Cal no one is making you "sit out a year".
HoopDreams
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SRBear
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Potatoe
Shocky1
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haas pavillion is all torn up right now, it's time for the original floor since the 1999 renovation of the palace to be replaced

it's not true that "under armour is footing the bill for the new floor" but they are giving money to rebrand the cal facilities & the floor is part of that projects...the marks of the new floor at the palace will be more "timeless" than the nike rebrand

do you got your season tix(s) to your palace for this november?




the timeless palace (the magic of cal basketball)#
HoopDreams
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graduate.

Shocky1
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yeah both jordan brown & elijah hardy are monster cal prospects that are also connected with taylor thru social media, they not dumb azzs...i dunno maybe they both wanna learn more about makeup tutorial videos & **** like that

[video=youtube;pEscO8aZiRE][/video]


not gonna ride in red mercedes#:bigpuke:
Shocky1
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them california golden bears are gonna have a mother's day surprise (or two) next week



left to right, tamarik "the scholar" rabb, tami "moms of the year" rabb & ivan "diamonds are forever" rabb

my favorite dragon in the universe#:bravo
oskidunker
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Please tell me that awful bear logo will be gone.
MoragaBear
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Staff
No bear logo anymore.

Jeter didn't take his trip to UCLA. Will likely be between Cal, Arizona and Gonzaga, which each offer different positives. And the decision should be soon.
NYCGOBEARS
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MoragaBear;842839467 said:

No bear logo anymore.

Jeter didn't take his trip to UCLA. Will likely be between Cal, Arizona and Gonzaga, which each offer different positives. And the decision should be soon.


That's great news all around.
oskidunker
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NYCGOBEARS;842839470 said:

That's great news all around.


Maybe an In To The Canyon. Photo of strawberry canyon? Bring bavk Oski dribbling the basketball.
👅
Shocky1
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Steam67;842839473 said:

Don't forget Bubba Paris, who is 6'6", has the body to clog the middle (think MSF+), and had good grades.


bad idea


socaliganbear
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Can't wait to see that big beautiful script back out there.
Shocky1
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oskidunker;842839462 said:

Please tell me that awful bear logo will be gone.


another monster exclusive announcement: check out the new ua floor design that is being installed right now in consultation with shocky/taylor & a final sign off by mike williams




best floor in the nation#:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy
Shocky1
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what up, chase?

did the donut boy tell you how's he's gonna try to recruit over you at the 4 for 2018 with marvin bagley jr?

you got a 3.86 gpa in high school, your not a dumb azz with minimal academic ambition that just wants to engage in underage drinking in tucson until you enter the ******* real world with a global economy that favors the well educated & discards those without meaningful skills

the university of california, berkeley=#1 ranked public (#3 overall) university in the world (with 35+ mpg guaranteed)

Shocky1;842838097 said:

chance comanche & his overly involved moms melissa have signed with an agent, he got recruited over at the 4 by the donut boy of tuscon




a player's program (young dumb & broke)#:nono::nono:
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