Pitino was just fired.

I read it on reddit so take this with a grain of salt..apparently there was a bidding war with Brian Bowen that Louisville had won..the bidding war was with a Nike school.....Oregon.

MinotStateBeav said:

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I read it on reddit so take this with a grain of salt..apparently there was a bidding war with Brian Bowen that Louisville had won..the bidding war was with a Nike school.....Oregon.

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That is implied in the federal complaint against the adidas guy, which mentions that adidas, on behalf of University-6 (Louisville) was bidding on Bowen against another company and team. People are just making a good guess that the 2nd shoe company is Nike and the 2nd school is Oregon, probably because Bowen made late recruiting visits to Oregon and Louisville after having neither team on the list of teams he had been considering for about a year.

The big question for me is what will happen with the shoe companies? Answer: probably nothing. At a minimum, I'd like to see the AAU ban shoe company sponsorship of the youth leagues. That's really where the rot begins for these kids.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Pretty pathetic by Pitino to play the "I had no idea" card. I would say it's extremely rare for an assistant coach to do anything without the head guys approval. Same goes for Sean Miller at Zona.

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So you expected him to cop to a felony charge? If I were his attorney I would tell him to shut the f up and don't say boo to anyone about it, but a public denial is next on the list of "least incriminating things I could say today" in response.

uA Coach Miller talks WEAK. u of A, u of A . . . how much did u of A pay today? WEAK.
$uSC Coach Enfield no talk . . . WEAK.
Come with cash Coach Pitino WEAK. Cardinals WEAK. Get WEAKER . . . disappear?
Au, uA, uLouie, $uSC, OkStu hoops smell STRONG like old Adidas shoe. WEAK.

Recruits walk. Take money . . . run. Maybe STRONG; maybe WEAK.

BearSD said:

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Attn: Andy Enfield, Sean Miller, Cuonzo Martin, other Nike head coaches


[url=https://twitter.com/DarrenHeitner][/url]

Quote:

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Darren Heitner
@DarrenHeitner

Sources: Employees of Nike's EYBL grassroots division, along with documents, have been subpoenaed by FBI in furtherance of investigation

10:40 AM - 27 Sep 2017

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And Under Armour will be next. All 3 shoe companies are represented in this case. They are all in direct competition for the better AAU programs and players. I am sure they are looking for the money trail.

well you dont want to outright ban the shoe companies off the AAU circuit. I dont think that there would be any AAU without the shoe companies and overall AAU has really helped kids get exposure, especially kids where it would otherwise be much harder to get them exposure. Think that there has to be some sort of middle ground. It shouldnt be as dirty as it has been, but preserve the good that it was doing also.

UCBerkGrad said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Pitino gone at Louisville. How long before this takes out our own coach? I hope to hell that's why he left. i.e. didn't want any part of it.

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Coincidently, Wyking was on my flight to Portland this morning. I wanted to ask him about it but didn't think it was appropriate. Did give him a "Go Bears!" though.

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What?
You blew it!!!
That's definitely ask worthy!!

Chicken!

gobears725 said:

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well you dont want to outright ban the shoe companies off the AAU circuit. I dont think that there would be any AAU without the shoe companies and overall AAU has really helped kids get exposure, especially kids where it would otherwise be much harder to get them exposure. Think that there has to be some sort of middle ground. It shouldnt be as dirty as it has been, but preserve the good that it was doing also.

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I do not think you want to ban the shoe companies. You want them to be responsible partners. But with the money they have invested in these clubs and colleges they expect a return on investment. However they can. Of course the participants of the AAU programs have a role. A big role. But they also have their hands out as well.

This investigation will scare some folks into following the rules. But college recruiting has been burdened by paying for players long before the shoe companies. So it will continue.

Cal89 said:

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Wow, just wow.

From someone who does investigations for my employer, and has for 15 or so years, I am quite happy to hear this news. I often pitch the schemes I uncover to the FBI, and then work closely with them over many months and years to get closure. I'm batting 1,000 as they have taken every case I've presented. Everything changes when the feds get involved. Whole new ballgame folks...

The Special Agents I've worked with are damn smart, thorough and have some serious authority of course. I've been in on search warrants with them, in interviews and proffer sessions, and when at the table with these guys, others get ratted-out and fast, grown men cry.

The NCAA? They likely don't know for a damn good reason. My guess is that they are on the radar too, if not already, for being complicit. Either way, they are the mouse watching the cheese and as we know, it's not always in their best interest to crack-down on such shenanigans.

Really curious where this goes...

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As much as we like to laugh about government workers hamming it up, and punching clock for a pension, federal attorneys don't **** around. They by and large come from top schools or are laterals from top firms, turn down far more lucrative careers purely for the chance to take on cases like this, have reach and resources second to none. If these coaches are as dirty as we think they are, this is going to be huge.

From Twitter:

The biggest question right now is "what federal laws were broken." If this just ends up being a violation of NCAA rules, this investigation is gonna go nowhere fast. I would assume that the FBI wouldn't be on board unless they had an ironclad case here, but I'm unsure as to what laws have actually been broken.

Yogi Bear said:

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The biggest question right now is "what federal laws were broken." If this just ends up being a violation of NCAA rules, this investigation is gonna go nowhere fast. I would assume that the FBI wouldn't be on board unless they had an ironclad case here, but I'm unsure as to what laws have actually been broken.

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You think Uncle Sam was getting his cut of the taxes, income, etc ....?

Yogi Bear said:

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The biggest question right now is "what federal laws were broken." If this just ends up being a violation of NCAA rules, this investigation is gonna go nowhere fast. I would assume that the FBI wouldn't be on board unless they had an ironclad case here, but I'm unsure as to what laws have actually been broken.

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Read the charging statement. It tells you what laws were broken. That is not the biggest question. The biggest question is how many other programs will be ensnared.

Read the indictment: http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2017/0926/fbincaacoaches_r.pdf?appsrc=sc

Roll Tide!

Everyone here seems to be missing the point. Was the Louisville women's team on the take in 2013 when they beat the lady golden bears in the final four? THAT is what matters.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20841877/until-ncaa-solves-money-problem-pays-athletes-problems-continue

To me the answer has long been to socialize the gains. Conferences essentially become a scheduling and coordinating office (akin to the regional CIF). TV and sponsorship money ALL get thrown into a pot., Since you don't/can't spread that $$$ throughout all of higher education you find a mechanism to control entry into the group - possibly around non-profit status, minimum enrollment and minimum institutional support for scholarships/grants to their regular undergraduate student body.

The reason for all off that is that it dramatically reduces the financial upside/downside for winning and losing - a goal which Higher education institutions with students as athletes are ill-equipped to do across the board in an ethical way.

Chuck Connors Person,? The rifleman would be shocked. Not the same ethics

Wow, Pitino. Just wow. This guy must have some serious stones to make the comments he did about how shocked he was when the allegations came out. Plus, the doozies coming out of his mouth after they signed Bowen are pretty classic too in retrospect. So too the comments about keeping the $100K payment on the down-low because they were already on probation. Amazing stuff. I just assumed that Coach-2 was an assistant. The relationship between University-6 and Adidas was obviously way way cozy if Pitino has that kind of pull at the top levels of Adidas to pay players. Not surprisingly, the daughter of the University-6 AD got a nice job at Adidas too.

Louisville is really in a world of hurt.

TheSouseFamily said:

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Wow, Pitino. Just wow. This guy must have some serious stones to make the comments he did about how shocked he was when the allegations came out. Plus, the doozies coming out of his mouth after they signed Bowen are pretty classic too in retrospect. So too the comments about keeping the $100K payment on the down-low because they were already on probation. Amazing stuff. I just assumed that Coach-2 was an assistant. The relationship between University-6 and Adidas was obviously way way cozy if Pitino has that kind of pull at the top levels of Adidas to pay players. Not surprisingly, the daughter of the University-6 AD got a nice job at Adidas too.

Louisville is really in a world of hurt.

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Arizona is said to be the competing school with Miami for the unmentioned player to receive $150K. The speculation revolves around Nassir Little by some accounts. Many believe they may have a player already on campus that has received money. 6 figure money to attend and of course this does not account for the 2018 recruit Quinnerly that apparently has already received or been promised some money.

Assistants may be able to form side deals with agents, shoe companies to funnel players to them when the player goes pro without the HC knowing, but six figure payouts no way. Book may have been the conduit to the shoe company and agents but no way big money exchanges hands without Miller being aware. Arizona has been dirty for forever. Love the nickname Book. How absolutely perfect.

While USC is involved in this scandal it looks like they were small potatoes compared to Arizona. But dirty is dirty. Oregon is said to be the competing school with Louisville for Bowen by some. Do not know but would not surprise me. The key will be which person currently under indictment decides to roll over. My guess is that the money guys are most likely. The coaches can find work in the pro's as scouts or the G league or something. The other guys likely are done. Selling a book may be their only source of revenue once this gets done.

Miller is in big trouble at Arizona IMO. They know he is dirty, but the boosters are likely working behind the scenes to see if they can keep Book quiet and silence the players. Louisville is in trouble but their quick dispatching of Jurich and Pitino will help them. It will be interesting to see how USC, Arizona, Oklahoma St, Auburn and Miami react in the coming days.

Alabama just had a staffer resign amid a University generated review of the program. Many other schools will be doing the same. Very interesting times indeed.

6956bear said:

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Miller is in big trouble at Arizona IMO. They know he is dirty, but the boosters are likely working behind the scenes to see if they can keep Book quiet and silence the players. Louisville is in trouble but their quick dispatching of Jurich and Pitino will help them. It will be interesting to see how USC, Arizona, Oklahoma St, Auburn and Miami react in the coming days.

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It will be interesting if the DA can threaten hard time it will be hard to keep some of these guys quiet. Serve jail time or talk? It's not like this is the mafia, why go to jail over freaking basketball?

ClayK - The problem with the "paying players" argument in this context is that none of the incidents we're talking about now would have been affected by such a change. If there's a payment arms race between schools for a recruit, that's gonna continue because it's about who offers more. A player is always gonna want x + y. And in the case of the payments by agents based on an expectation of future cash flow in The League, that won't change either. I don't think any of these players would have thought "You know what? The school's payment is sufficient. I don't need all this extra $$ I'm being offered by a potential manager." Paying players seems like it would do nothing to stanch the flow of dirty money.

Quote:

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The key will be which person currently under indictment decides to roll over.

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At Book Richardson's bail hearing, the prosecutors noted that on the current charges he faces up to 60 years in federal prison.

If "Book" has a choice between (a) spending most of his life in prison, or (b) getting a few months' home confinement plus giving the feds info on Sean Miller and others, then my money is on Book choosing option (b).

When ambitious prosecutors launch a major case like this, they're not looking to lock up assistant coaches and shoe company bag men. They're looking to topple company presidents and famous head coaches. Have to believe that these head coaches and the top execs at adidas and Nike already know this and have lawyered up.

6956bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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Wow, Pitino. Just wow. This guy must have some serious stones to make the comments he did about how shocked he was when the allegations came out. Plus, the doozies coming out of his mouth after they signed Bowen are pretty classic too in retrospect. So too the comments about keeping the $100K payment on the down-low because they were already on probation. Amazing stuff. I just assumed that Coach-2 was an assistant. The relationship between University-6 and Adidas was obviously way way cozy if Pitino has that kind of pull at the top levels of Adidas to pay players. Not surprisingly, the daughter of the University-6 AD got a nice job at Adidas too.

Louisville is really in a world of hurt.

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Arizona is said to be the competing school with Miami for the unmentioned player to receive $150K. The speculation revolves around Nassir Little by some accounts. Many believe they may have a player already on campus that has received money. 6 figure money to attend and of course this does not account for the 2018 recruit Quinnerly that apparently has already received or been promised some money.

Assistants may be able to form side deals with agents, shoe companies to funnel players to them when the player goes pro without the HC knowing, but six figure payouts no way. Book may have been the conduit to the shoe company and agents but no way big money exchanges hands without Miller being aware. Arizona has been dirty for forever. Love the nickname Book. How absolutely perfect.

While USC is involved in this scandal it looks like they were small potatoes compared to Arizona. But dirty is dirty. Oregon is said to be the competing school with Louisville for Bowen by some. Do not know but would not surprise me. The key will be which person currently under indictment decides to roll over. My guess is that the money guys are most likely. The coaches can find work in the pro's as scouts or the G league or something. The other guys likely are done. Selling a book may be their only source of revenue once this gets done.

Miller is in big trouble at Arizona IMO. They know he is dirty, but the boosters are likely working behind the scenes to see if they can keep Book quiet and silence the players. Louisville is in trouble but their quick dispatching of Jurich and Pitino will help them. It will be interesting to see how USC, Arizona, Oklahoma St, Auburn and Miami react in the coming days.

Alabama just had a staffer resign amid a University generated review of the program. Many other schools will be doing the same. Very interesting times indeed.

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If I'm Alabama, I throw the basketball program under the bus quickly, less anyone get the idea to actually penalize the entire athletic program (e.g., football). Way too much revenue for the school (beyond athletics) from football to even consider allowing basketball to F it up.

Is it a coincidence that the Alabama AD, Greg Byrne, was the AD at Arizona until January of this year?

I'm going to stick with my suggestion to get shoe companies out of summer basketball. Asking them to follow the rules is like saying you have no problem with the Mafia controlling liquor as long as they follow the law. Ain't gonna happen.

As for the argument that these leagues are great ways for kids to be noticed, I think it is more about making it easier for coaches--go to one tournament and see lots of 3-5 star kids. The players can still be seen, just more leg work.

I do agree with the notion that the one-and-done rule is a sham that needs to go. As for paying players, I'm not opposed at all philosophically, I just don't see an easy system that isn't wildly unfair or further decouples athletics from the academic side of things. Already there are proposals out there for alternate "college" associations that would do away with outdated rules such as having to take classes or having a minimal gpa.

That's why you haven't heard anything from the head coaches associated with the assistants.... crickets.... talk, you're screwed.... quiet.. you're more than likely complicit... either way... they're in trouble.

If you go to an Arizona's site.. it says the Arizona coach had a small discussion when the news broke out with his brother Archie... I'm sure they're afraid of wire taps and all that ... maybe they're sending smoke signals to each other...

BearSD said:

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From Twitter:

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Beautiful. That made my day


Might have to plagiarize for the Arizona game, with "U of Pay" on the back.

I took a look at a the message boards for three schools last night

Louisville. Desperation. Fired their HOF coach. They are praying that the NCAA does not give Louisville the death penalty.

Arizona. State of denial. Wildcat Fan thinks Sean Miller was not involved. No thoughts that their school may face penalties. Talking about the hottest coach they can find, just in case Miller leaves.

U$C. Aggressive. They feel they were unfairly treated with the Carroll/Reggie Bush scholarship penalties. Most concerned that BBall issue might spill over to football. They want to fight back, legally. Many feel that Pat Haden laid down for the NCAA. Some fans want go after the FBI and protect the sacred Trojan.

RJABear said:

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I took a look at a the message boards for three schools last night

Louisville. Desperation. Fired their HOF coach. They are praying that the NCAA does not give Louisville the death penalty.

Arizona. State of denial. Wildcat Fan thinks Sean Miller was not involved. No thoughts that their school may face penalties. Talking about the hottest coach they can find, just in case Miller leaves.

U$C. Aggressive. They feel they were unfairly treated with the Carroll/Reggie Bush scholarship penalties. Most concerned that BBall issue might spill over to football. They want to fight back, legally. Many feel that Pat Haden laid down for the NCAA. Some fans want go after the FBI and protect the sacred Trojan.

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Fright on,
Flight on,
and
Fight on.

RJABear said:

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I took a look at a the message boards for three schools last night

Louisville. Desperation. Fired their HOF coach. They are praying that the NCAA does not give Louisville the death penalty.

Arizona. State of denial. Wildcat Fan thinks Sean Miller was not involved. No thoughts that their school may face penalties. Talking about the hottest coach they can find, just in case Miller leaves.

U$C. Aggressive. They feel they were unfairly treated with the Carroll/Reggie Bush scholarship penalties. Most concerned that BBall issue might spill over to football. They want to fight back, legally. Many feel that Pat Haden laid down for the NCAA. Some fans want go after the FBI and protect the sacred Trojan.

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What I saw in the Desert Storm comments was a lot of just fire Miller now and move forward remarks, moderated by others wanting to see it play out. From my perspective, Miller should be toast just to have had it happen on his watch, so firing him now makes sense. But that might require a buy out of his contract, as opposed to waiting for facts to come in to allow termination for cause and a kick in the ass out the door.

I just about fell out of my chair laughing at the comments in an SC forum where someone called it a "witch hunt." Uh huh. Sure. The FBI got the coach on tape and all, but we didn't do nutten.

joe yaks said:

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RJABear said:

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I took a look at a the message boards for three schools last night

Louisville. Desperation. Fired their HOF coach. They are praying that the NCAA does not give Louisville the death penalty.

Arizona. State of denial. Wildcat Fan thinks Sean Miller was not involved. No thoughts that their school may face penalties. Talking about the hottest coach they can find, just in case Miller leaves.

U$C. Aggressive. They feel they were unfairly treated with the Carroll/Reggie Bush scholarship penalties. Most concerned that BBall issue might spill over to football. They want to fight back, legally. Many feel that Pat Haden laid down for the NCAA. Some fans want go after the FBI and protect the sacred Trojan.

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Fright on,
Flight on,
and
Fight on.

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We have a winner!!!!!!

joe yaks said:

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RJABear said:

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I took a look at a the message boards for three schools last night

Louisville. Desperation. Fired their HOF coach. They are praying that the NCAA does not give Louisville the death penalty.

Arizona. State of denial. Wildcat Fan thinks Sean Miller was not involved. No thoughts that their school may face penalties. Talking about the hottest coach they can find, just in case Miller leaves.

U$C. Aggressive. They feel they were unfairly treated with the Carroll/Reggie Bush scholarship penalties. Most concerned that BBall issue might spill over to football. They want to fight back, legally. Many feel that Pat Haden laid down for the NCAA. Some fans want go after the FBI and protect the sacred Trojan.

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Fright on,
Flight on,
and
Fight on.

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Made me spit beer out my nose laughing so hard. Damm you - a nice Stone IPA.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/26/pulitzer-winner-george-dohrmann-on-the-scandal-no-real-consequences-to-breaking-ncaa-rules-with-fbi-involved-this-is-a-deterrent/

"George Dohrmann, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who uncovered academic fraud at Minnesota and wrote a book."

Dohrmann: "Every head coach or assistant coach who has ever funneled money or had knowledge of money being funneled is thinking, 'Now we have to worry about the feds?'
"If all they had to worry about was the NCAA, the risk was worth it. Louisville was running a prostitution ring and the head coach didn't get fired. The message is that any penalties are so soft if you get busted, you can get back into coaching the next year.
"There were no real consequences to breaking NCAA rules. But with the FBI involved, those (four assistants) won't work again. This is a real deterrent.

Dohrmann: The same way BALCO didn't rid (baseball) of doping, I don't think this will rid college basketball of its transactions, of brokering players. The cheaters will get better at it, and the feds will turn their attention to something else.
"In the short term, the honest coaches maybe will have a little edge. For one or two years, the top recruits won't be procured. The decisions will be based on best school, best fit.
"But that will only be a short-term correction. It's not like sports agents are going away. And it's not like the NCAA has been a smart, dedicated, enforcement apparatus.
"It evens the playing field for a awhile, but then it creeps back to where it was."