Coleman

bross
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
Once again out of control tonight and forcing too many bad shots. Wyking needs to take him out when he starts going 1 on 5.

EDIT: I should clarify - I don't mean take him out for the entire game, or even for an extended period. I just mean when he makes a couple of bad decisions in a row, take him out for 2 or 3 minutes and remind him to play within the offense.
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/benrosssports
KoreAmBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
L
True but he's not a factor why we are going to lose this game. I'm just glad Don is not volume shooting anymore.

Our defense and rebounding are still very poor.

Plus freshmen made a ton of unforced errors.

Glad to see Marcus doing his thing though.

It's going to be a rough year, but we have some pieces for the future.



OneKeg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
KoreAmBear said:

True but he's not a factor why we are going to lose this game.



Not a factor in why we lost? No way KAB. The net effect of Coleman's crazy drives was probably at least a -6 in points this game. If so, that's pretty significant in an 11 point game.

Not the only reason we lost? Absolutely right. One of several reasons.
TheSouseFamily
How long do you want to ignore this user?
H
KoreAmBear said:

True but he's not a factor why we are going to lose this game. I'm just glad Don is not volume shooting anymore.




He was 3-16 (and 0-3 from 3) which counts as volume shooting for me. If he (or someone else on the team) went 50% on those shots/possessions, it's a dead even game despite all the other issues you raise (which i agree with). But he's totally out of control. Regardless of the number of the shots, the quality of shots is just really, really poor. Hard to fathom that a coach even puts up with it.
NYCGOBEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
L
TheSouseFamily said:

KoreAmBear said:

True but he's not a factor why we are going to lose this game. I'm just glad Don is not volume shooting anymore.




He was 3-16 (and 0-3 from 3) which counts as volume shooting for me. If he (or someone else on the team) went 50% on those shots/possessions, it's a dead even game despite all the other issues you raise (which i agree with). But he's totally out of control. Hard to fathom that a coach even puts up with it.

Totally agree. He's a liability.
KoreAmBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
L
NYCGOBEARS said:

TheSouseFamily said:

KoreAmBear said:

True but he's not a factor why we are going to lose this game. I'm just glad Don is not volume shooting anymore.




He was 3-16 (and 0-3 from 3) which counts as volume shooting for me. If he (or someone else on the team) went 50% on those shots/possessions, it's a dead even game despite all the other issues you raise (which i agree with). But he's totally out of control. Hard to fathom that a coach even puts up with it.

Totally agree. He's a liability.
Understood, but we weren't going to win this game whether he was efficient or not. Our #1 problem is how bad our defensive rotations still are. St. Mary's pretty much could get a bucket anytime it wanted.
Yogi Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
TheSouseFamily said:

KoreAmBear said:

True but he's not a factor why we are going to lose this game. I'm just glad Don is not volume shooting anymore.
He was 3-16 (and 0-3 from 3) which counts as volume shooting for me. If he (or someone else on the team) went 50% on those shots/possessions, it's a dead even game despite all the other issues you raise (which i agree with). But he's totally out of control. Regardless of the number of the shots, the quality of shots is just really, really poor. Hard to fathom that a coach even puts up with it.
This team doesn't have a lot of other options for scoring, which is why we put up with it.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
L
Yes.

My thoughts this half have been: "He's a good basketball players in many regards. Can drive with abandon. Can shoot from deep. Can score a ton of points in a hurry...."
However, he's a bad player for your team, and not the kind of cohesive team player that you want to join your squad. Seldom assists. Always rushing shots outside of the flow of offense, often early in the shot clock which does nothing to help teammates get in any kind of groove. Moody. Fouls after making mistakes. Does not let the game come to him, but forces the issue and when it doesn't go his way, disaster looms. Even when he's making shots, it comes off hero ball and so the teammates don't get going and the team flow is not aided.

As a nice contrast, Hamilton's points tonight were almost the exact opposite. They came off assists by teammates because he was cutting and moving without the ball. This HELPS teammates because it forces defenses to move and adjust, which opens up the guy with the ball, or others.

Don had an engaging smile and greeting when I met him, so I don't mean to bash on a nice guy. I'd be interesting in hearing what he thinks about such criticism. I see that many times he's cut down on his attempts, almost to the point of disappearing. What does he think about how he can be more of a team facilitator, screener, or get open without the ball, rather than an either ON or OFF attacking player?

TrueBlue42
How long do you want to ignore this user?
V
I hate to say this but as long as this trend continues unchecked, the more it looks like a potential coaching concern. I've watched Randy Bennett coach for many years; he would never allow a player to run and gun like this stretch of play we've seen so far this year. At the end of the day, game minutes should be a reward for players who work within a system and value ball possession and overall efficiency. We shall see going forward. Quality minutes from Hamilton could help solve this problem.
Yogi Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
TrueBlue42 said:

Quality minutes from Hamilton could help solve this problem.
I don't want to harsh on your buzz, but tonight was a unicorn.
KoreAmBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
L
Don as a person seems great. Just like Stephen Domingo. Just like Sam Singer. Great scholar athletes and reps of our school. That they struggle with hoops at the highest level is not shameful at all. But yah if he can't learn to play within our structure then he can't play.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
L
KoreAmBear said:

Understood, but we weren't going to win this game whether he was efficient or not. Our #1 problem is how bad our defensive rotations still are. St. Mary's pretty much could get a bucket anytime it wanted.
Yeah, our collective defense (individual and help) is our biggest hinderance to winning.
TrueBlue42
How long do you want to ignore this user?
V
Yogi Bear said:

TrueBlue42 said:

Quality minutes from Hamilton could help solve this problem.
I don't want to harsh on your buzz, but tonight was a unicorn.
I'm not talking about scoring, I'm talking about him taking 1/3 of Coleman's minutes and hence gifting 7-8 additional shot attempts to our better players.
bross
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
I don't mean take him out for the entire game, or even for an extended period. I just mean when he makes a couple of bad decisions in a row, take him out for 2 or 3 minutes and remind him to play within the offense.
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/benrosssports
ducky23
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
Yogi Bear said:

TrueBlue42 said:

Quality minutes from Hamilton could help solve this problem.
I don't want to harsh on your buzz, but tonight was a unicorn.


Why do you say that so definitively? Sure he's not going to score double digits maybe ever again this season. But that's not what he needs to do to be a productive player on this team.

He's by far the best perimeter defender. It's not even close.
Earlier in the season, he was tentative on offense, making dumb turnovers and not even looking to shoot.

But let's remember, he's kinda like a freshman too. This is his first time getting meaningful minutes. It's not out of the question that he's improving and the game is starting to slow down for him. There's no reason he can't improve.

Look he just needs to not be a liability on offense. Which means, make the occasional open three, keep cutting and don't make turnovers. That's it. If he can do that, he will be an important rotation player this year because god knows we need someone who can play some defense on the perimeter.

McCullough on the other hand.......let's just say that kid needs at least another offseason to improve his body. He could be productive in the future, but defensively he's not close to ready.
Yogi Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
ducky23 said:

Yogi Bear said:

TrueBlue42 said:

Quality minutes from Hamilton could help solve this problem.
I don't want to harsh on your buzz, but tonight was a unicorn.
Why do you say that so definitively?
Because it's the truth.
south bender
How long do you want to ignore this user?
H
I agree with Ducky. Let's be patient with Hamilton. Good chance he'll improve throughout this season.

Great to see the energy he puts into defending.
Californication
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
I would argue that Hamilton's performance was not a unicorn from the perspective of playing within the offense, acting like part of the team, being responsible with the ball and hustling on D. These are all the things that Dee Cee needs to work on. From a scoring perspective, yes, perhaps we rarely see Hamilton do this well and that's why Dee Cee should play more than Nick.

But Nick should serve as a perfect replacement player whenever Dee Cee goes off the rails and puts himself before the team game. Then you yank him for a team player, talk to him, and get him back in there a couple of minutes later. Don has played well at times this season and did play more of a controlled game in the games when we did well like versus CSUN.

Reminds me of how I felt about Ty Wallace. The fewer the shots and the more assists, the better Cal did.
bluesaxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
H
KoreAmBear said:

True but he's not a factor why we are going to lose this game. I'm just glad Don is not volume shooting anymore.

Our defense and rebounding are still very poor.

Plus freshmen made a ton of unforced errors.

Glad to see Marcus doing his thing though.

It's going to be a rough year, but we have some pieces for the future.




3-16 seems like volume shooting to me.
BeachedBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
bross said:

I don't mean take him out for the entire game, or even for an extended period. I just mean when he makes a couple of bad decisions in a row, take him out for 2 or 3 minutes and remind him to play within the offense.
Coleman.

For me, it's not the stats, it's his eyes. He gets this look in his eyes, where it is obvious to EVERYONE (me, his teammates and the opposing defense) that he is going all-in, all-alone, all-the-way to the hoop. If he doesn't get the and-1, it's a morale blast for his teammates.

As bross suggests, he just needs to sit for a spell and reset.
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
I'd agree with most of what was said here about Coleman, but we left out one positive: Coleman led the team in assists with four. Without those 4 passes, Cal loses by 20.

The team's other positives were Lee's offensive career game, and the emergence of Hamilton, who had his career game. We did share the ball a little better with 15 assists.

This was a team loss. Our starting guards, Coleman and McNeill were badly outplayed by the much shorter but much more savvy Ford and Naar. Harris-Dyson played poorly, and Sueing was little better. The team rebounded poorly, as usual. Turned the ball over too much. Played defense poorly, as usual. Shot free throws at little more than 50%. We keep taking shots when closely guarded while the opponents keep finding holes in our defense from which to take wide open shots.




calgo430
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
don was not the only reason we got beat by st. marys. they can shoot 3's and outside of lee we were not competitive. we are a work in progress.
gobears
How long do you want to ignore this user?
kingpindonuts
How long do you want to ignore this user?
V
A lot of Coleman's reckless drives seemed to come inside of 6 minutes left and down double digits. Seems like he doesn't trust his teammates, the system, or doesn't understand the game situation and instead just starts panicking into thinking he needs to score as quick as possible. This is as much on DC as it is on the coaching staff imo for not preparing the guys on how to play in those situations.
gobears
How long do you want to ignore this user?
V
I did not mind Don's game vs St M... The fact he took 16 shots, I was ok with... he is the leading scorer on team...... thus, he will take his share of shots each game.. I am not saying he had a great game... 3 of 16 is 3 of 16.


He had 4 A and 0 TO's... which showed he was more in control than earlier in season.

Jordan Ford (Oakland Soldier), had a good game... (cannot recall if Cal went after him in HS).. 17 points on 7 of 14 from floor....

goBears





kingpindonuts
How long do you want to ignore this user?
V
No, DC was not in control last night. Just because he throws up a wild shot rather than throwing it away doesn't mean he played under control.
SmellinRoses
How long do you want to ignore this user?
H
Coleman is a ball hog period - and he's not a good shooter. He isn't even remotely looking to pass to any open man his wild driving creates.

Was good to see Lee play well.
UrsaMajor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
L
SmellinRoses said:

Coleman is a ball hog period - and he's not a good shooter. He isn't even remotely looking to pass to any open man his wild driving creates.
Nice declarative statement. Not necessarily accurate, but then who needs accuracy. Coleman does get out of control often and doesn't take full advantage of his penetration. OTOH, he's shooting 35+% from 3--that's not great, but not that bad (McCullough, who's supposed to be a good shooter is 0-5), and he's 2nd on the team in assists (first in the SMC game). Could he play more in control and within the scheme? Definitely. Is a a bad shooting ball hog who never passes? Only in an alternative universe.
ducky23
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
For us to beat a team like St Mary's, Coleman is going to have to score a bunch of points. Not sure what else to tell you all. I wish we had a bunch of scorers on the team, but we don't. I wish we were a better team, but we aren't. Like it or not, we are all going to have to live with what we have.
roqmoq
How long do you want to ignore this user?
V
Is DC the type of player who is necessary for the team to win, but will also be partially responsible for some losses? In other words, "can't win without him and can lose because of him".
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
SmellinRoses said:

Coleman is a ball hog period - and he's not a good shooter. He isn't even remotely looking to pass to any open man his wild driving creates.

Was good to see Lee play well.
Just my opinion, but I don't think Coleman is a ball hog. He has an uncanny ability to finish at the rim, but that depends first of all on him generating great speed. He is also a pretty good passer who sometimes creates baskets with assists. I think he has a one-track mind, in that when he gets the ball, he quickly makes a decision to pass or shoot, and 80-90% of the time, he decides to drive and shoot or to shoot a perimeter shot. When he decides to pass, it will usually be an assist. The problem is that once he decides, his mind locks in on that plan, and he is almost unable to change his mind on the fly. If he decides to drive, he immediately begins to accelerate tremendously, and he can not stop until he puts up a shot. He can not even slow down and veer off to the side and bring the ball back out, or pass it back out.

The best guards, when they drive, are able to think on the fly as the play develops. Jason Kidd could do all of that, often changing his mind at the last second, on what he would do, shoot, pass, or dribble away from the defenders and restart the offense. A player like Justin Cobbs or Ty Wallace were good guards, but not great, and could change their minds during a drive, but usually made their decision to shoot or pass much earlier in the drive than Kidd would do, and they more often chose to take the shot. Kidd's last second decisions were usually to not take the shot if it was not a good look, and make the pass. If neither option was good, he would not give up the ball like Coleman does, but he would make another decision to back off an restart the offense in hopes of getting a better shot for himself or a teammate. While speed is Coleman's great asset, it is also his problem, because once he gets up to speed, he is going so fast, he no longer can change his mind not to take the shot, if it is a bad look, or if a teammate is more wide open. Kidd, Cobbs, and Wallace all played slower (by different degrees) than Coleman on the drive.




bearmanpg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
V
gobears said:

I did not mind Don's game vs St M... The fact he took 16 shots, I was ok with... he is the leading scorer on team...... thus, he will take his share of shots each game.. I am not saying he had a great game... 3 of 16 is 3 of 16.


He had 4 A and 0 TO's... which showed he was more in control than earlier in season.

Jordan Ford (Oakland Soldier), had a good game... (cannot recall if Cal went after him in HS).. 17 points on 7 of 14 from floor....

goBears






We could of had Jordan Ford but Cuonzo didn't think he was strong enough.... I always thought Ford could overcome any physical shortcomings with his BB IQ....he always made good decisions for his team....another reason to dis Cuonzo....
TheSouseFamily
How long do you want to ignore this user?
H
Well, Coleman's efficiency numbers and advanced stats are not good but especially the case on defense.

He's fifth on the team in OBPM (offensive box plus minus which is an estimate of the offensive points per 100 possessions a player contributes versus average) and 13th on the team in DBPM (defensive box plus minus). Overall BPM is 7th on the team. Marcus Lee is #1 followed by Sueing, Hamilton and McNeil.
MoragaBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
3-16 will skew numbers significantly in just 8 games played.

What were Coleman's numbers after 7 games?
joe yaks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A
bearmanpg said:

gobears said:

>" . . . Jordan Ford (Oakland Soldier), had a good game... (cannot recall if Cal went after him in HS).. 17 points on 7 of 14 from floor . . . "<
Well, not to grouse about Coach Martin (beating the dead horse) or his lack of offensive acumen, but he made a lot of poor decisions (uA game at Berktown) and some conspicuous non-decisions (dazzling display in the first round of the 2016 tourney}. He was "pissed" and had one sneaker out the door on hi way to uMO. Not securing Ford was his farewell gift to Coach Bennett and to StMCol.


Page 1 of 2
×
Verify your student status
See Membership Benefits >