Civil Bear said:

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evanluck said:

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It's not so much that we are less talented than these teams but we are waaaay younger. The freshman are rattled and there is no one on the court to settle them down.

The announcers pointed out that we returned the fewest players in all of college basketball. These teams that we have been losing to have solid lineups filled with upper classmen. When they smell our fear on the court, they push us around and we don't have anyone to push back.

Hard to watch.

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I'm of the mind now that is precisely the reason to not hire a first-year coach.

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Yogi Bear said:

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fat_slice said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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right now I'm too depressed to type. I will say that central Arkansas was superbly coached. The 103 points they scored against UCLA was not an aberration. it may be way too early to tell, but there is a good possibility that Wyking was a buddy hire by Williams. Also, the five year guaranteed deal at one million per seemed too extravagant at the time given that Wyking would have settled for a smaller amount. after all, he had no leverage. This is what happens when you hire an AD without either football or basketball experience. my prayer is that our young, talented players do not bail after the season if we continue to go south. By the way, I haven';t seen AD Williams at any games so far. Is this because my eyesight is failing, or is AD Williams at home watching wrestling on TV???

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You want to know the worst part that will really make you depressed?

He has a $4M buyout.

Why a first-time head coach has a $4M buyout I can't explain other than that Cal AD's consistently **** up contracts.

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If this is true (and given that this is cal athletics, it is highly believable), I am speechless. I just in good conscience cannot support giving him 4 million dollars and adding him to my "those laughing at cal" list. We will just have to ride him out.

Men's basketball was what helped me get through the dec-mar period of no college football. Now I have to wait the full cycle.

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I should caveat this. I think representing it as a buyout is incorrect.

https://247sports.com/college/california/Article/Contract-details-for-Cal-mens-basketball-coach-Wyking-Jones-rele-74910174

He is entitled to the rest of his contract if he is terminated without cause. If that's done this year, he'd get the remaining of this year's $1M salary, plus $1M for each of the next four years of the contract.

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bigcocoon007 said:

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Coach we should have hired beat us on Saturday. Randy Bennet

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HoopDreams said:

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just got back from game
stayed till the end. a fire alarm went off after the game so that's why WK didn't go to the press conference

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BearSD said:

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OTOH... Ben Braun had a bare cupboard his last two seasons at Rice, after a skeezy assistant coach tried to force the administration to give him Braun's job and then left and induced every decent player to transfer out. With no decent players left, Braun's last two teams were 1-15 and 2-14 in a basketball conference that is far weaker than the Pac-12. So Braun floundered with teams that were out-talented in every game even though he had 25 years' experience as a head coach.

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calbear80 said:

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bigcocoon007 said:

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Coach we should have hired beat us on Saturday. Randy Bennet

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+1

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Yogi Bear said:

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He is entitled to the rest of his contract if he is terminated without cause. If that's done this year, he'd get the remaining of this year's $1M salary, plus $1M for each of the next four years of the contract.

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concordtom said:

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calbear80 said:

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bigcocoon007 said:

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Coach we should have hired beat us on Saturday. Randy Bennet

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+1

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1. It's not clear Bennett was ever offered.
2. It's not clear Bennett would accept, leaving St. Mary's.

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concordtom said:

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...I'll add that if jones were to produce wins, there'd be nothing stopping him from bolting elsewhere....

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MSaviolives said:

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This all happened after the narcissist, brunette yoga girl, and rescue dog, loving booster walked off in a huff. Just saying....

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Yogi Bear said:

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concordtom said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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calgo430 said:

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coach k could not due much with this group.

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Coach K went 7-22 in conference and won 10 and 11 games overall those years before he got Duke established. You can't do anything without talent. The guys who are starting would be bench players on a real team and the guys behind our current starters wouldn't even be on the team. That's the formula for a really bad year.

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Mike Montgomery would be able to make them play well.
We have enough players to be decent.
MM was also a bit of a magician.

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In 1992-93, Montgomery went 7-23 and 2-16 in conference.

In basketball, much more than any other sport, you CANNOT win without talent. We have very few shooters and the ones that we have range somewhere between adequate to poor. Our ballhandling is not great and one of our "best" ballhandlers regularly takes the ball to trouble. Our bigs aren't bad, but you can't run an offense through them. The bench has nothing. A walkon gets regular minutes for us.

Our talent, combined with our extreme lack of experience, is a situation that no coach could get a lot of wins with. Would a better coach have beaten Riverside and Chaminade? Probably. The game tonight I think we got beat by a team that was definitely more experienced and probably more talented than us too. Small schools all over manage to find guards that can shoot and dribble.

I'm not trying to say Wyking is doing a good job. I think he's doing a very poor job. But there's not much that can be done about it right now. Play out the season, see what the talent level of the team is going to be for next year, and then decide what you're going to do.

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UrsaMajor said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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concordtom said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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calgo430 said:

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coach k could not due much with this group.

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Coach K went 7-22 in conference and won 10 and 11 games overall those years before he got Duke established. You can't do anything without talent. The guys who are starting would be bench players on a real team and the guys behind our current starters wouldn't even be on the team. That's the formula for a really bad year.

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Mike Montgomery would be able to make them play well.
We have enough players to be decent.
MM was also a bit of a magician.

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In 1992-93, Montgomery went 7-23 and 2-16 in conference.

In basketball, much more than any other sport, you CANNOT win without talent. We have very few shooters and the ones that we have range somewhere between adequate to poor. Our ballhandling is not great and one of our "best" ballhandlers regularly takes the ball to trouble. Our bigs aren't bad, but you can't run an offense through them. The bench has nothing. A walkon gets regular minutes for us.

Our talent, combined with our extreme lack of experience, is a situation that no coach could get a lot of wins with. Would a better coach have beaten Riverside and Chaminade? Probably. The game tonight I think we got beat by a team that was definitely more experienced and probably more talented than us too. Small schools all over manage to find guards that can shoot and dribble.

I'm not trying to say Wyking is doing a good job. I think he's doing a very poor job. But there's not much that can be done about it right now. Play out the season, see what the talent level of the team is going to be for next year, and then decide what you're going to do.

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i agree that this team isn't very talented, but I think you overstate the case somewhat. McNeill is better than an "adequate" shooter (somewhere around 40% from 3); I have faith that Sueing will be as well. Also, UCA may be a somewhat decent team that put over 100 up at UCLA, but they were 4-5 coming in, so a lot of teams have beaten them.
Bottom line: we don't have the talent to compete yet, but it's not like there is no one who can play.

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KoreAmBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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concordtom said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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calgo430 said:

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coach k could not due much with this group.

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Coach K went 7-22 in conference and won 10 and 11 games overall those years before he got Duke established. You can't do anything without talent. The guys who are starting would be bench players on a real team and the guys behind our current starters wouldn't even be on the team. That's the formula for a really bad year.

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Mike Montgomery would be able to make them play well.
We have enough players to be decent.
MM was also a bit of a magician.

---

In 1992-93, Montgomery went 7-23 and 2-16 in conference.

In basketball, much more than any other sport, you CANNOT win without talent. We have very few shooters and the ones that we have range somewhere between adequate to poor. Our ballhandling is not great and one of our "best" ballhandlers regularly takes the ball to trouble. Our bigs aren't bad, but you can't run an offense through them. The bench has nothing. A walkon gets regular minutes for us.

Our talent, combined with our extreme lack of experience, is a situation that no coach could get a lot of wins with. Would a better coach have beaten Riverside and Chaminade? Probably. The game tonight I think we got beat by a team that was definitely more experienced and probably more talented than us too. Small schools all over manage to find guards that can shoot and dribble.

I'm not trying to say Wyking is doing a good job. I think he's doing a very poor job. But there's not much that can be done about it right now. Play out the season, see what the talent level of the team is going to be for next year, and then decide what you're going to do.

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i agree that this team isn't very talented, but I think you overstate the case somewhat. McNeill is better than an "adequate" shooter (somewhere around 40% from 3); I have faith that Sueing will be as well. Also, UCA may be a somewhat decent team that put over 100 up at UCLA, but they were 4-5 coming in, so a lot of teams have beaten them.
Bottom line: we don't have the talent to compete yet, but it's not like there is no one who can play.

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Sueing actually has a sweet lefty shot. Yes McNeill looks like he can shoot. Coleman I believe has a good outside shot when he's not foaming at the mouth going horizontal trying to go to the rack. We need structure though. It's inexperienced coaching + inexperienced players + some but not enough talent. I don't know if pulling the plug is even an option. We're going to have to soldier on for a bit. We're in a bad place with the revenue sports, but there will be better days. Right?

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calgo430 said:

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coach k could not due much with this group.

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UrsaMajor said:

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So far, there is no evidence that would suggest that Jones is a capable coach. I say this reluctantly, because I am fond of him personally, and I think he's a decent, stand-up guy who is a credit to the university.

HOWEVER, calling for him to be fired now is silly because no one EVER fires a new coach after 1/3 of a season. We all know this isn't going to happen, just as calling Kim Jong-un to give up his nukes RIGHT NOW or John Fisher to sell the A's RIGHT NOW aren't going to happen either. If it makes some posters feel empowered, great, but FACT: Wyking Jones is the Cal basketball coach and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

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oskidunker said:

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Great now all we need is for Wyking to overturm a training table and use some bad lamguage.

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KoreAmBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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So far, there is no evidence that would suggest that Jones is a capable coach. I say this reluctantly, because I am fond of him personally, and I think he's a decent, stand-up guy who is a credit to the university.

HOWEVER, calling for him to be fired now is silly because no one EVER fires a new coach after 1/3 of a season. We all know this isn't going to happen, just as calling Kim Jong-un to give up his nukes RIGHT NOW or John Fisher to sell the A's RIGHT NOW aren't going to happen either. If it makes some posters feel empowered, great, but FACT: Wyking Jones is the Cal basketball coach and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

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When did we fire Lou?

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Yogi Bear said:

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Big C said:

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To the larger point, though, the powers that be (if we have any right now) do need to start wondering -- if they have not already -- if this program can be salvaged over the next couple of years.

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The powers that be are coasting to the end of a tenure that never should have occurred. Somehow despite it all, we ended up with Justin Wilcox. I don't know how we pulled that rabbit out of the hat.

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ColoradoBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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So far, there is no evidence that would suggest that Jones is a capable coach. I say this reluctantly, because I am fond of him personally, and I think he's a decent, stand-up guy who is a credit to the university.

HOWEVER, calling for him to be fired now is silly because no one EVER fires a new coach after 1/3 of a season. We all know this isn't going to happen, just as calling Kim Jong-un to give up his nukes RIGHT NOW or John Fisher to sell the A's RIGHT NOW aren't going to happen either. If it makes some posters feel empowered, great, but FACT: Wyking Jones is the Cal basketball coach and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

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When did we fire Lou?

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Uh, in his 8th season.

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KoreAmBear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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So far, there is no evidence that would suggest that Jones is a capable coach. I say this reluctantly, because I am fond of him personally, and I think he's a decent, stand-up guy who is a credit to the university.

HOWEVER, calling for him to be fired now is silly because no one EVER fires a new coach after 1/3 of a season. We all know this isn't going to happen, just as calling Kim Jong-un to give up his nukes RIGHT NOW or John Fisher to sell the A's RIGHT NOW aren't going to happen either. If it makes some posters feel empowered, great, but FACT: Wyking Jones is the Cal basketball coach and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

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When did we fire Lou?

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Uh, in his 8th season.

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In-season.

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KoreAmBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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So far, there is no evidence that would suggest that Jones is a capable coach. I say this reluctantly, because I am fond of him personally, and I think he's a decent, stand-up guy who is a credit to the university.

HOWEVER, calling for him to be fired now is silly because no one EVER fires a new coach after 1/3 of a season. We all know this isn't going to happen, just as calling Kim Jong-un to give up his nukes RIGHT NOW or John Fisher to sell the A's RIGHT NOW aren't going to happen either. If it makes some posters feel empowered, great, but FACT: Wyking Jones is the Cal basketball coach and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

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When did we fire Lou?

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KoreAmBear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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So far, there is no evidence that would suggest that Jones is a capable coach. I say this reluctantly, because I am fond of him personally, and I think he's a decent, stand-up guy who is a credit to the university.

HOWEVER, calling for him to be fired now is silly because no one EVER fires a new coach after 1/3 of a season. We all know this isn't going to happen, just as calling Kim Jong-un to give up his nukes RIGHT NOW or John Fisher to sell the A's RIGHT NOW aren't going to happen either. If it makes some posters feel empowered, great, but FACT: Wyking Jones is the Cal basketball coach and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

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When did we fire Lou?

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Uh, in his 8th season.

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In-season.

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bipolarbear said:

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Jones should do the honorable thing and walk like Gary Anderson.

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