helltopay1 said:

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I've said this before, and, I will say it again. No definitive conclusions about WJ can be made until we see what transpires this spring. If all goes well then we need to see how WJ and his team perform next year. As the late Hampton poole said, " you ALWAYS find out about players and coaches in their second year. Patience, lads, patience!!!

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Yeah but, twenty-four years ago, it was that quote that led me to think that Keith Gilbertson was a good football coach.

SFCityBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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fat_slice said:

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calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

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All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

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JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

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I wish we had brought in a JC sharpshooter this year. Would have filled a huge need and helped balance out the classes.

SFCityBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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fat_slice said:

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calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

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So we build a team by landing the juco national player of the year? That's the winning recipe. I get you land one when a good one is available and interested, but schools struggle when juco is a priority.

calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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fat_slice said:

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calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

---

I wish we had brought in a JC sharpshooter this year. Would have filled a huge need and helped balance out the classes.

---

Even a JC transfer like Sanders-Frison would have provided badly a badly needed backup for Lee and Okoroh.

fat_slice said:

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Ed gray, Prentice McGruder, Geno Carlisle, Michel Gill, Thomas Kilgore, Sanders Frison... I'm sure I'm missing other impact transfers I guess technically all of these aren't JC transfers.

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So 5 of 6 not difference makers. We are better off taking our lumps with the young guys for a ew years.

ayetee11 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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fat_slice said:

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calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

---

So we build a team by landing the juco national player of the year? That's the winning recipe. I get you land one when a good one is available and interested, but schools struggle when juco is a priority.

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I agree that we don't necessarily build a team around a JC transfer. Oregon did not build their team around Boucher, and Arizona did not build their team around Allen. But they were awfully nice pieces to have, critical to their teams' success. But when you have very little quality depth on the roster at several positions, as was the case this season, it would have been nice to try and fill a couple of those spots with an experienced JC player. Next year with Okoroh, Lee, Hamilton, and Welle graduating, and with the players we have committed for next season, we will have even less depth, especially up front. We look to be a little better on the perimeter, but much weaker inside, both in terms of experience and depth.

SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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fat_slice said:

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calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

---

I wish we had brought in a JC sharpshooter this year. Would have filled a huge need and helped balance out the classes.

---

Even a JC transfer like Sanders-Frison would have provided badly a badly needed backup for Lee and Okoroh.

---

what do you mean "Even"
Bro was unstoppable. He'd back players down and hit them with a lethal hook

He was also one of the best leaders we've had on the basketball team
I been hoping he would return as a coach someday

SFCityBear said:

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But when you have very little quality depth on the roster at several positions, as was the case this season, it would have been nice to try and fill a couple of those spots with an experienced JC player.

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It isn't easy to find good juco players who meet Cal's academic standards.

SFCityBear said:

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ayetee11 said:

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fat_slice said:

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calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

---

And I'd bet a dollar neither of them could get into Cal. Probably as is the case for a massive percentage of JC POY's. Not to mention the fact the average kid with grades poor enough to not qualify at any D1 school and who is also that good at hoops doesn't exactly profile as a Cal student athlete, even if they could get admitted.

The reality is unless we can land a Raab or J.Brown again we are going need to build the program from the bottom up. That probably means a few lean years on the court while the staff brings in multiple classes and they migrate through / mature. I see this as being less about our current HC and more about the dangers of having a program that relies on one and done type players but doesn't have the gravitas to reload with those players every year.

HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

fat_slice said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

---

I wish we had brought in a JC sharpshooter this year. Would have filled a huge need and helped balance out the classes.

---

Even a JC transfer like Sanders-Frison would have provided badly a badly needed backup for Lee and Okoroh.

---

what do you mean "Even"
Bro was unstoppable. He'd back players down and hit them with a lethal hook

He was also one of the best leaders we've had on the basketball team
I been hoping he would return as a coach someday

---

I agree, He was a stud. Could easily have started for Cal this season. When wrote "even" I could have phrased it better, but I meant to imply MSF was not a national JUCO Player of the Year or an All-American, but still was a very good player.

SFCityBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

fat_slice said:

---

calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

---

I wish we had brought in a JC sharpshooter this year. Would have filled a huge need and helped balance out the classes.

---

Even a JC transfer like Sanders-Frison would have provided badly a badly needed backup for Lee and Okoroh.

---

what do you mean "Even"
Bro was unstoppable. He'd back players down and hit them with a lethal hook

He was also one of the best leaders we've had on the basketball team
I been hoping he would return as a coach someday

---

I agree, He was a stud. Could easily have started for Cal this season. When I wrote "even," I could have phrased it better, but I meant to imply MSF was not a national JUCO Player of the Year or an All-American, but still was a very good player who transitioned easily into DI and the PAC10.

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We need a "where are they now" segment for guys like MSF....Someone like CalHoopFan could do the interview!

SmellinRoses said:

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We need a "where are they now" segment for guys like MSF....Someone like CalHoopFan could do the interview!

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or Eric

tequila4kapp said:

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SFCityBear said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

fat_slice said:

---

calgo430 said:

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you cannot win when you cant put the rock in the hole. we have no shooters/scorers. wait till next year.

---

All we get next year are more freshman that will need yet another year to get acclimated. We need to get some JC recruits or it's going to be 2020 before we can start watching cal basketball without being disgusted.

---

JC recruits don't impact college basketball like football. We start recruiting Jucos and you might as well fire Jones now.

---

Kadeem Allen:

National JC Player of the Year at Hutchinson CC, 2014

Arizona Wildcat in 2015 and 2016

2nd team All-PAC12, and PAC12 All-Defensive team.



Chris Boucher:

National JC Player of the Year at Northwest College in Wyoming, 2015

Oregon Duck in 2016 and 2017

Two-time PAC12 All-Defensive Team

189 shot blocks, 2nd in Oregon history.

0.532 FG% (4th in Oregon history)


There are still good JC players around. Just as with the other types of recruits, Cal does not get many of them.

---

And I'd bet a dollar neither of them could get into Cal. Probably as is the case for a massive percentage of JC POY's. Not to mention the fact the average kid with grades poor enough to not qualify at any D1 school and who is also that good at hoops doesn't exactly profile as a Cal student athlete, even if they could get admitted.

The reality is unless we can land a Raab or J.Brown again we are going need to build the program from the bottom up. That probably means a few lean years on the court while the staff brings in multiple classes and they migrate through / mature. I see this as being less about our current HC and more about the dangers of having a program that relies on one and done type players but doesn't have the gravitas to reload with those players every year.

---

California JCs are designed for transferring to UC, so as long as the kid takes the right classes, goes to class and does the work they are likely to be a full qualifier. Cal's JC transfers (both athletes and non-athletes) graduate at a higher rate than high school entrants. Freshman year at Cal is no joke. I graduated with honors, but was on academic probation after my first quarter and I was not playing a D1 sport. There is a huge advantage to come in as an upper-class man.

The point is Cal should keep an eye out for the best (especially California) JC talent. Now, I will say, this applies to football more than basketball since there are so many schools at all levels a kid can play basketball, and with AAU and tournaments fewer kids fall through the cracks as in football, but again, we should keep an eye out.

stu said:

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It isn't easy to find good juco players who meet Cal's academic standards.

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I am not sure you are right about that. The minimum is a 2.4 GPA at the JC. That is not all that hard to manage...

Cal may want more, may not. Does anybody actually know?

Go!Bears said:

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stu said:

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It isn't easy to find good juco players who meet Cal's academic standards.

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I am not sure you are right about that. The minimum is a 2.4 GPA at the JC. That is not all that hard to manage...

Cal may want more, may not. Does anybody actually know?

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Good question. That minimum JC GPA is far below our self imposed GPA requirement. Maybe someone with knowledge can share if the mandate applies to all athletes or freshman only.

SmellinRoses said:

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We need a "where are they now" segment for guys like MSF....Someone like CalHoopFan could do the interview!

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MSF is apparently alive and well, playing in the Japanese B League for the Iwate Big Bulls

https://www.bigbulls.jp/roster/markhuri_sanders_frison.html

I doubt we take silver bullets on high school gpas below 3.0 and look the other way on a 2.4 jc GPA. That doesn't make sense.

oski003 said:

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I doubt we take silver bullets on high school gpas below 3.0 and look the other way on a 2.4 jc GPA. That doesn't make sense.

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yes, it does make sense because theoretically college is harder than high school academically. The goal of the 3.0 requirement is to ensure that student-athletes can make appropriate progress and graduate. Those with a 2.4 at JC have demonstrated that they can do college work (assuming they have taken the appropriate courses) at a level that leads to graduation. Granted, Berkeley City College is likely not to be as hard as UC, but probably harder than Podunk High School.

SmellinRoses said:

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We need a "where are they now" segment for guys like MSF....Someone like CalHoopFan could do the interview!

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I miss CalHoopFan. Did shocky drive him away?

ColoradoBear said:

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SmellinRoses said:

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We need a "where are they now" segment for guys like MSF....Someone like CalHoopFan could do the interview!

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I miss CalHoopFan. Did shocky drive him away?

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Quite the opposite, CB. He's running the asylum these days. He just goes by CalGreg now.

UrsaMajor said:

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theoretically college is harder than high school academically.

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FWIW I spent 4 years as a student at a "good" public high school and 1 year at a "good" JC. Overall the JC was no more challenging than the high school and my JC grades were actually better. Also at the JC the variation in standards between different classes and different professors was enormous. Based on what I've heard about other JCs from many of their teachers I'd say a 2.4 GPA in easy classes at a mediocre JC would qualify the student for high school, not for Cal.

UrsaMajor said:

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oski003 said:

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I doubt we take silver bullets on high school gpas below 3.0 and look the other way on a 2.4 jc GPA. That doesn't make sense.

---

yes, it does make sense because theoretically college is harder than high school academically. The goal of the 3.0 requirement is to ensure that student-athletes can make appropriate progress and graduate. Those with a 2.4 at JC have demonstrated that they can do college work (assuming they have taken the appropriate courses) at a level that leads to graduation. Granted, Berkeley City College is likely not to be as hard as UC, but probably harder than Podunk High School.

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Berkeley CC is pretty solid, with (as one would imagine just from its location) inspiring professors and really bright and competitive students.

EricBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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SmellinRoses said:

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We need a "where are they now" segment for guys like MSF....Someone like CalHoopFan could do the interview!

---

or Eric

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Uh, I've done interviews with Denny Fitzpatrick and Bob Dalton of the '59 championship team; Ryan Drew, now an executIve with Under Armour; and with current pros Jaylen Brown, Ty Wallace and Jabari Bird. Have a few others in the pipeline. Getting there.

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Yeah, keep up the good work! I'd love to hear what some of your former Cal team mates are up to. Even if they were some of the less well-known ones, I'm pretty sure I'd remember them.

Go Bears!

Is Wyking open to another Alumni game? We really enjoyed the last one. Might be able to get Kidd to come.

EricBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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SmellinRoses said:

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We need a "where are they now" segment for guys like MSF....Someone like CalHoopFan could do the interview!

---

or Eric

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Yeah, and I appreciate every one of them

Not a complaint, just a request.... and maybe they don't have to be an elaborate interview... just a 'what are they doing now' mini-interview/story

Uh, I've done interviews with Denny Fitzpatrick and Bob Dalton of the '59 championship team; Ryan Drew, now an executIve with Under Armour; and with current pros Jaylen Brown, Ty Wallace and Jabari Bird. Have a few others in the pipeline. Getting there.

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oskidunker said:

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Is Wyking open to another Alumni game? We really enjoyed the last one. Might be able to get Kidd to come.

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I second that idea. I have a basketball autographed by the participants, and graduating seniors since then.

UrsaMajor said:

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oski003 said:

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I doubt we take silver bullets on high school gpas below 3.0 and look the other way on a 2.4 jc GPA. That doesn't make sense.

---

yes, it does make sense because theoretically college is harder than high school academically. The goal of the 3.0 requirement is to ensure that student-athletes can make appropriate progress and graduate. Those with a 2.4 at JC have demonstrated that they can do college work (assuming they have taken the appropriate courses) at a level that leads to graduation. Granted, Berkeley City College is likely not to be as hard as UC, but probably harder than Podunk High School.

---

Huh, I know first hand of a 4.4, good SAT, top 5 in her graduating class white woman denied admission to Cal two years ago. Maybe two parents who had gone to a UC school. Maybe her being white. Maybe a need for more out of state's to balance Brown's budget (haha). Maybe, maybe, maybe...And you tell me you want to accept a 2.4 from a good CC like Cabrillo where she got straight As in classes her HS did not offer. Give me a break.

OdontoBear66 said:

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UrsaMajor said:

---

oski003 said:

---

I doubt we take silver bullets on high school gpas below 3.0 and look the other way on a 2.4 jc GPA. That doesn't make sense.

---

yes, it does make sense because theoretically college is harder than high school academically. The goal of the 3.0 requirement is to ensure that student-athletes can make appropriate progress and graduate. Those with a 2.4 at JC have demonstrated that they can do college work (assuming they have taken the appropriate courses) at a level that leads to graduation. Granted, Berkeley City College is likely not to be as hard as UC, but probably harder than Podunk High School.

---

Huh, I know first hand of a 4.4, good SAT, top 5 in her graduating class white woman denied admission to Cal two years ago. Maybe two parents who had gone to a UC school. Maybe her being white. Maybe a need for more out of state's to balance Brown's budget (haha). Maybe, maybe, maybe...And you tell me you want to accept a 2.4 from a good CC like Cabrillo where she got straight As in classes her HS did not offer. Give me a break.

---

I'm pretty sure we are talking athletic special admits here. With the point being a 2.4 at a JC is better than a higher GPA in HS. Is a 2.4 the equivalent of a 3.0 is which is the cutoff? I don't know. But neither gets you in without a really special talent.

ColoradoBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

UrsaMajor said:

---

oski003 said:

---

I doubt we take silver bullets on high school gpas below 3.0 and look the other way on a 2.4 jc GPA. That doesn't make sense.

---

yes, it does make sense because theoretically college is harder than high school academically. The goal of the 3.0 requirement is to ensure that student-athletes can make appropriate progress and graduate. Those with a 2.4 at JC have demonstrated that they can do college work (assuming they have taken the appropriate courses) at a level that leads to graduation. Granted, Berkeley City College is likely not to be as hard as UC, but probably harder than Podunk High School.

---

Huh, I know first hand of a 4.4, good SAT, top 5 in her graduating class white woman denied admission to Cal two years ago. Maybe two parents who had gone to a UC school. Maybe her being white. Maybe a need for more out of state's to balance Brown's budget (haha). Maybe, maybe, maybe...And you tell me you want to accept a 2.4 from a good CC like Cabrillo where she got straight As in classes her HS did not offer. Give me a break.

---

I'm pretty sure we are talking athletic special admits here. With the point being a 2.4 at a JC is better than a higher GPA in HS. Is a 2.4 the equivalent of a 3.0 is which is the cutoff? I don't know. But neither gets you in without a really special talent.

---

Cal is still Cal.....2.4? I don't think so.

Bobodeluxe said:

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It's tough being white. People just don't understand.

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Cute, but also a bit arseholic. So cool thrusting anti white these days as if so many of current day whites have something to do with the society's problems at hand. I see but civility and feelings of diversity and compassion, unless one wants to equate all whites with the ugliest bigoted whites which are reduced in numbers significantly from the day of yore. That in itself is a good thing, but in that it exists taints and poisons the water. Don't get it.

OdontoBear66 said:

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Bobodeluxe said:

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It's tough being white. People just don't understand.

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Cute, but also a bit arseholic. So cool thrusting anti white these days as if so many of current day whites have something to do with the society's problems at hand. I see but civility and feelings of diversity and compassion, unless one wants to equate all whites with the ugliest bigoted whites which are reduced in numbers significantly from the day of yore. That in itself is a good thing, but in that it exists taints and poisons the water. Don't get it.

---

I think you have the burdens reversed.

It is 100% meaningless/false to assert disadvantage due to being white.

That is one of the worst things about the right wing white supremacists - that they believe they are the defenders of the "white race" against (whatever bad danger they happen to claim exists), and they assert this justifies whatever horrible means they choose to avoid Armageddon [means, by the way, that are unjustifiable even in the hands of people who ARE actually disadvantaged due to whatever immutable characteristic that qualifies them for being oppressed due to their identity].

The central point in this nexus is that the central sin of whatever ism it happens to be (i.e., racisim, sexism, religious intolerance, etc.) is that the victim has to be actually vulnerable due to membership in a group he or she cannot choose out of.

So, in that sense, the only times one is really disadvantaged in this society on account of being "white", are those extreme minority of cases where a "white" person is in a particular neighborhood (physical or otherwise) in which they are subject to opprobrium on that account, AND in a significant enough minority (and without access to the majority status they enjoy everywhere else in the country) that they are in actual danger from which they cannot escape at that moment; and there is just NO generally applicable societal circumstance in which that could be said to apply in any general way.