maybe I'm hopelessly naive, but would Harris accept a 'preferred walk-on offer if no scholarship were available??I understand he prefers Cal over all the other offers. Then, the following year we could give him a full ride. Does this fall into the "hopelessly naive category"??Also, does he still plan on coming on May 11th??
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preferred walk-on
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Last: 5 yr ago by SFCityBear
Given his list of offers (I counted 17), I would think it highly unlikely. Also, keep in mind, he's out of state, meaning he'd need to come up with out of state tuition.helltopay1 said:
maybe I'm hopelessly naive, but would Harris accept a 'preferred walk-on offer if no scholarship were available??I understand he prefers Cal over all the other offers. Then, the following year we could give him a full ride. Does this fall into the "hopelessly naive category"??Also, does he still plan on coming on May 11th??
Who's Harris?
calfanz said:
Who's Harris?
2 star recruit with a long offer list at this late date. Reading the tea leaves, it's presumed that one of the schollies WJ tried to open up may have been for him.
Not true. 24/7, rivals, and ESPN all list him as a high 3*Civil Bear said:calfanz said:
Who's Harris?
2 star recruit with a long offer list at this late date. Reading the tea leaves, it's presumed that one of the schollies WJ tried to open up may have been for him.
dear Civil: Not may have been for him. WAS for him. Ideal back-up PG for the next two years. Nobody wins without a quality back-up PG. So---is he still coming on May 11th??
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Well said. A true point guard, even if he was a back up, would have helped Cal last season. Winston was a point guard, I think, but not skilled enough to get much playing time. Don Nelson used to say PGs are a dime a dozen. I don't think it is true any more. Most guard recruits nowadays are the combo variety (which means they are probably not good enough at either position to be listed that way only), and good point guards are hard to find. Cal hasn't had one since Randle, IMO, and even he morphed into more of a scorer.helltopay1 said:
dear Civil: Not may have been for him. WAS for him. Ideal back-up PG for the next two years. Nobody wins without a quality back-up PG. So---is he still coming on May 11th??
Well, gosh, I'll take that.SFCityBear said:
good point guards are hard to find. Cal hasn't had one since Randle, IMO, and even he morphed into more of a scorer.
The "morphed" PG Randle led Cal to the Conference Championship, earning him POY along the way.
How can you tell the Diff between a HIGH and LOW 3-star?UrsaMajor said:
Not true. 24/7, rivals, and ESPN all list him as a high 3*
Dear CT: A high 3 star is flirting with elite territory while a low 3 star is flirting g with d2 territory.
Thx, but what I meant was
On the sites, they don't give grades of 3+ or 3-, they just say 3.
So where are you reading high and low?
On the sites, they don't give grades of 3+ or 3-, they just say 3.
So where are you reading high and low?
From ursa Major.
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On 247/Scout, if you're above .85 and less than .90, you're a high 3 star. Harris is .863. On ESPN, 77-79 is a high 3 star. He's a 77 there.concordtom said:
Thx, but what I meant was
On the sites, they don't give grades of 3+ or 3-, they just say 3.
So where are you reading high and low?
Rivals breaks it down further on football recruits but not hoops. He's 3 stars there.
If you count Randle as a good point guard (which I also do), then wouldn't you consider Justin Cobbs (who came after Randle) as a good point guard?SFCityBear said:Well said. A true point guard, even if he was a back up, would have helped Cal last season. Winston was a point guard, I think, but not skilled enough to get much playing time. Don Nelson used to say PGs are a dime a dozen. I don't think it is true any more. Most guard recruits nowadays are the combo variety (which means they are probably not good enough at either position to be listed that way only), and good point guards are hard to find. Cal hasn't had one since Randle, IMO, and even he morphed into more of a scorer.helltopay1 said:
dear Civil: Not may have been for him. WAS for him. Ideal back-up PG for the next two years. Nobody wins without a quality back-up PG. So---is he still coming on May 11th??
The guy averaged well over 5 assists a game over his 3 years at Cal and had a better than 2:1 assist/TO ratio. Sure like Randle, Cobbs became more of a scorer too later in his career, but his senior year was also his best assist year (5.8 apg, higher than Randle had any of his years).
OneKeg said:If you count Randle as a point guard (which I also do), then wouldn't you consider Justin Cobbs (who came after Randle) as a point guard? The guy averaged well over 5 assists a game during his 3 years at Cal and had a better than 2:1 assist/TO ratio. Sure like Randle, Cobbs became more of a scorer too later in his career, but his senior year was also his best assist year (5.8 apg, higher than Randle had any of his years).SFCityBear said:Well said. A true point guard, even if he was a back up, would have helped Cal last season. Winston was a point guard, I think, but not skilled enough to get much playing time. Don Nelson used to say PGs are a dime a dozen. I don't think it is true any more. Most guard recruits nowadays are the combo variety (which means they are probably not good enough at either position to be listed that way only), and good point guards are hard to find. Cal hasn't had one since Randle, IMO, and even he morphed into more of a scorer.helltopay1 said:
dear Civil: Not may have been for him. WAS for him. Ideal back-up PG for the next two years. Nobody wins without a quality back-up PG. So---is he still coming on May 11th??
Yes, Cobbs counts. Would have loved to have him at the point last year.
I'm sorry, but did someone say "Justin Cobbs"?
Man, just watching this... it's been a long time since we had such cheer on this website.
Good times are just around the corner (he says).
Good times are just around the corner (he says).
I can't disagree with what you say. We all have our favorites. Cobbs is certainly in that conversation. My main point was that there are fewer good point guards around today. In comparing Randle and Cobbs, it is not all in the statistics. I think Cobbs had better big men to get the ball to him, and rebound his misses in Solomon, Kravish and Kamp. He had better scorers to dish the ball to in Crabbe, and later Wallace, Mathews and Bird. He was not quick enough to defend the point well, and that job often fell to Jorge. Randle had Boykin and later MSF to get him the ball, and he had PC and Theo to dish to, primarily outside scorers. Randle's last two years, Cal averaged 76 points, while Cobbs three Cal teams averaged 70 points. I think Randle made his teammates better, slightly more often than Cobbs did. it was just an impression. Cobbs was a good shot, but Randle shot the ball better than Cobbs from three and from the free throw line. I wished that Randle had been the same point guard at Cal that he showed in his high school videos, just a collection of wonderful dishes on the run in a fast break. D1 defenses take that away from you most of the time. But he changed and adapted, and became a scorer with an eye out for someone who had a better chance to score. His teams won something, a PAC10 championship, which means a lot to me and to that Cal team. I liked Cobbs a lot, but I never fully warmed up to him. He usually had to have the ball to be successful. I have this vision of him in the last seconds of a game, taking the inbounds pass and driving coast to coast for a shot. We all remember the great shots he made, and forget the misses. It's not his fault. I realize all coaches do this now, give the ball in the last seconds to their fastest and best athlete and let him do his thing. It is very primitive basketball, and low-percentage. However, a player like him could have turned Cal's season around last year and given Wyking Jones a lot less to worry about. Right now, if Cal had that chance again, I'd take Cobbs in a New York minute.OneKeg said:If you count Randle as a good point guard (which I also do), then wouldn't you consider Justin Cobbs (who came after Randle) as a good point guard?SFCityBear said:Well said. A true point guard, even if he was a back up, would have helped Cal last season. Winston was a point guard, I think, but not skilled enough to get much playing time. Don Nelson used to say PGs are a dime a dozen. I don't think it is true any more. Most guard recruits nowadays are the combo variety (which means they are probably not good enough at either position to be listed that way only), and good point guards are hard to find. Cal hasn't had one since Randle, IMO, and even he morphed into more of a scorer.helltopay1 said:
dear Civil: Not may have been for him. WAS for him. Ideal back-up PG for the next two years. Nobody wins without a quality back-up PG. So---is he still coming on May 11th??
The guy averaged well over 5 assists a game over his 3 years at Cal and had a better than 2:1 assist/TO ratio. Sure like Randle, Cobbs became more of a scorer too later in his career, but his senior year was also his best assist year (5.8 apg, higher than Randle had any of his years).
Thanks for the analysis.SFCityBear said:I can't disagree with what you say. We all have our favorites. Cobbs is certainly in that conversation. My main point was that there are fewer good point guards around today. In comparing Randle and Cobbs, it is not all in the statistics. I think Cobbs had better big men to get the ball to him, and rebound his misses in Solomon, Kravish and Kamp. He had better scorers to dish the ball to in Crabbe, and later Wallace, Mathews and Bird. He was not quick enough to defend the point well, and that job often fell to Jorge. Randle had Boykin and later MSF to get him the ball, and he had PC and Theo to dish to, primarily outside scorers. Randle's last two years, Cal averaged 76 points, while Cobbs three Cal teams averaged 70 points. I think Randle made his teammates better, slightly more often than Cobbs did. it was just an impression. Cobbs was a good shot, but Randle shot the ball better than Cobbs from three and from the free throw line. I wished that Randle had been the same point guard at Cal that he showed in his high school videos, just a collection of wonderful dishes on the run in a fast break. D1 defenses take that away from you most of the time. But he changed and adapted, and became a scorer with an eye out for someone who had a better chance to score. His teams won something, a PAC10 championship, which means a lot to me and to that Cal team. I liked Cobbs a lot, but I never fully warmed up to him. He usually had to have the ball to be successful. I have this vision of him in the last seconds of a game, taking the inbounds pass and driving coast to coast for a shot. We all remember the great shots he made, and forget the misses. It's not his fault. I realize all coaches do this now, give the ball in the last seconds to their fastest and best athlete and let him do his thing. It is very primitive basketball, and low-percentage. However, a player like him could have turned Cal's season around last year and given Wyking Jones a lot less to worry about. Right now, if Cal had that chance again, I'd take Cobbs in a New York minute.OneKeg said:If you count Randle as a good point guard (which I also do), then wouldn't you consider Justin Cobbs (who came after Randle) as a good point guard?SFCityBear said:Well said. A true point guard, even if he was a back up, would have helped Cal last season. Winston was a point guard, I think, but not skilled enough to get much playing time. Don Nelson used to say PGs are a dime a dozen. I don't think it is true any more. Most guard recruits nowadays are the combo variety (which means they are probably not good enough at either position to be listed that way only), and good point guards are hard to find. Cal hasn't had one since Randle, IMO, and even he morphed into more of a scorer.helltopay1 said:
dear Civil: Not may have been for him. WAS for him. Ideal back-up PG for the next two years. Nobody wins without a quality back-up PG. So---is he still coming on May 11th??
The guy averaged well over 5 assists a game over his 3 years at Cal and had a better than 2:1 assist/TO ratio. Sure like Randle, Cobbs became more of a scorer too later in his career, but his senior year was also his best assist year (5.8 apg, higher than Randle had any of his years).
To be clear, I wasn't implying that Cobbs was better than Randle. Only that he was a legitimate point guard - in reaction to your statement that we haven't had one since Randle. Sounds like we're on the same page on that one now. I liked them both, but I agree Randle was better, mostly because he developed into an unbelievable shooter, a bit like a poor man's college version of what Steph Curry has been for the Warriors the last few years.
Understood. Thanks. And I should have chosen my words more carefully. Both were fine Cal players.OneKeg said:Thanks for the analysis.SFCityBear said:I can't disagree with what you say. We all have our favorites. Cobbs is certainly in that conversation. My main point was that there are fewer good point guards around today. In comparing Randle and Cobbs, it is not all in the statistics. I think Cobbs had better big men to get the ball to him, and rebound his misses in Solomon, Kravish and Kamp. He had better scorers to dish the ball to in Crabbe, and later Wallace, Mathews and Bird. He was not quick enough to defend the point well, and that job often fell to Jorge. Randle had Boykin and later MSF to get him the ball, and he had PC and Theo to dish to, primarily outside scorers. Randle's last two years, Cal averaged 76 points, while Cobbs three Cal teams averaged 70 points. I think Randle made his teammates better, slightly more often than Cobbs did. it was just an impression. Cobbs was a good shot, but Randle shot the ball better than Cobbs from three and from the free throw line. I wished that Randle had been the same point guard at Cal that he showed in his high school videos, just a collection of wonderful dishes on the run in a fast break. D1 defenses take that away from you most of the time. But he changed and adapted, and became a scorer with an eye out for someone who had a better chance to score. His teams won something, a PAC10 championship, which means a lot to me and to that Cal team. I liked Cobbs a lot, but I never fully warmed up to him. He usually had to have the ball to be successful. I have this vision of him in the last seconds of a game, taking the inbounds pass and driving coast to coast for a shot. We all remember the great shots he made, and forget the misses. It's not his fault. I realize all coaches do this now, give the ball in the last seconds to their fastest and best athlete and let him do his thing. It is very primitive basketball, and low-percentage. However, a player like him could have turned Cal's season around last year and given Wyking Jones a lot less to worry about. Right now, if Cal had that chance again, I'd take Cobbs in a New York minute.OneKeg said:If you count Randle as a good point guard (which I also do), then wouldn't you consider Justin Cobbs (who came after Randle) as a good point guard?SFCityBear said:Well said. A true point guard, even if he was a back up, would have helped Cal last season. Winston was a point guard, I think, but not skilled enough to get much playing time. Don Nelson used to say PGs are a dime a dozen. I don't think it is true any more. Most guard recruits nowadays are the combo variety (which means they are probably not good enough at either position to be listed that way only), and good point guards are hard to find. Cal hasn't had one since Randle, IMO, and even he morphed into more of a scorer.helltopay1 said:
dear Civil: Not may have been for him. WAS for him. Ideal back-up PG for the next two years. Nobody wins without a quality back-up PG. So---is he still coming on May 11th??
The guy averaged well over 5 assists a game over his 3 years at Cal and had a better than 2:1 assist/TO ratio. Sure like Randle, Cobbs became more of a scorer too later in his career, but his senior year was also his best assist year (5.8 apg, higher than Randle had any of his years).
To be clear, I wasn't implying that Cobbs was better than Randle. Only that he was a legitimate point guard - in reaction to your statement that we haven't had one since Randle. Sounds like we're on the same page on that one now. I liked them both, but I agree Randle was better, mostly because he developed into an unbelievable shooter, a bit like a poor man's college version of what Steph Curry has been for the Warriors the last few years.
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