This is on reddit r/cbb. That's gonna leave a mark....

No bueno.

tequila4kapp said:

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No bueno.

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Not the end of the world either. We're not gonna build the program with OAD guys like this but with 50-150 ranked 3-4 year players. I never thought Brown would end up at Cal but I am admittedly a little surprised he ended up at Nevada. As a program built on older transfers, he's gonna be a very young guy on that team playing with much older dudes. And given that many of their transfers have designs on the NBA and are running out of time and eligibility to show their skill, he may not be getting the touches and stats he wants playing with older, more dominant egos. Odd decision and odd process to get there. But good luck to him. I'm not shedding any tears personally.

TheSouseFamily said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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No bueno.

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Not the end of the world either. We're not gonna build the program with OAD guys like this but with 50-150 ranked 3-4 year players. I never thought Brown would end up at Cal but I am admittedly a little surprised he ended up at Nevada. As a program built on older transfers, he's gonna be a very young guy on that team playing with much older dudes. And given that many of their transfers have designs on the NBA and are running out of time and eligibility to show their skill, he may not be getting the touches and stats he wants playing with older, more dominant egos. Odd decision and odd process to get there. But good luck to him. I'm not shedding any tears personally.

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I am of a like mind, mostly. I don't think you can ever dismiss the value in getting talent though. Nevada...decisions like that makes ya wonder if a kid had the brain power to make it at Cal anyway (joking about him ... but serious about Nevada)

Insider board is probably taking this well lol

It's pretty quiet this morning, actually.

Surprisingly this one doesn't sting as much.

The sting will arrive later if we don't land Grand Transfer Mystery Man. If the GTMM's impact is as significant as purported then we will perhaps be in better shape. A more experienced, physically mature D-1 power forward is perhaps preferably to Jordan Brown---at least on the court. Brown is slight and probably can't create his own shot yet. I'm sure GTMM will bring better offense to the table, One downside however is the attention that Brown would have brought to the program and that he would have been the 5th NBA product for us in the past 3 years.

We HAVE to get GTMM or this one is gonna be painful.

There were lots of folks who wanted Jones gone during and after last year's record.

I'm now with that group. Or at least much further toward that camp. Not because of of last year, but because of his handling of this situation, which began with recruits and handling of players.

I can't have it both ways, I know. But this wasn't just a case of losing out on a recruit to another program.
He'd have been Cal, I'm now convinced. Meanwhile, we'll be playing 2 scholarship players down next year.
Or, we'll in-fill with like replacements, only to repeat again in a year or two with the same debacle.

Bummer - I wish Brown good luck at Nevada.

I said some time ago Brown was headed to Nevada. Since I live in Reno I was viewed as a "homer". Nevada checked off the most boxes. Tournament team, close proximity, Musselman is an ex NBS coach who convinced the Browns could get him NBA ready. This is probably the most important factor. Since academics was not a factor NV will be easier

socaltownie said:

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Whatever. It would have simply delayed the necessary choice. Getting rid of Jones and getting a new coach in place ASAP. A 12-13 win season, which Brown probably gets us to, would likely have meant year #3. The silver lining here is another single digit win season and the opportunity to see our new AD in action.

Lets face it, we are currently a football school and the prospects on the gridiron look relatively good.

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I'm not quite as ready to pull Jones as you are SCT, but he is still under scrutiny. I think the timing of the JUDGMENT on Jones has much more to do with structural issues within the Athletic Department and much less to do with W/Ls and Recruiting as you suggest.

Now that we HAVE an Athletic Director (THAT really needed to happen first, before entertaining your 'cut him now' narrative), he can use the next season to:

• See How Jones handles the games. We need to see marked improvement in X's & O's and getting players to play for at least 38, if not 40 minutes.
• See How Jones handles the program. Are the staff and players doing all they need to do off the court as well as on. How is recruiting and roster management over all. What is the PR and fan/donor response like.
• See if there is a better candidate ready to step in (just in case) and not break the bank. No point in terminating Jones just to replace him with another unknown or experiment.

FWIW, I think Jones has experienced TOO MANY learning mistakes. None of them, on their own are huge. But taken as a whole are problematic. Therefore, IMHO - Jones REALLY needs to demonstrate more than minimal progression in Year 2. For me, that means 20 wins, some upsets, very few blowouts and the players playing well with enthusiasm.

I disagree that Brown is the catalyst to get us to 12-13 wins. Or, that 13 wins is even close to enough to grant him a third year.

Finally, not at all surprised Brown is at Nevada. I think, without the noise around Arizona, he would have ended up there. Maybe in cleaner years, Cal has a better shot - but it was obvious that the Brown's weren't buying what Cal has to offer (particularly by choosing Nevada).

UCBerkGrad said:

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Apathy has clearly set in. No one is upset that Cal loses a 5-star recruit.....to Nevada of all schools??

After last year's debacle (worst in my 40+ year lifetime), I wanted Cal to cut our losses and move on to a different coach. There were many on this board saying "but if he can land Brown". Well, he lost Brown to a guy Cal probably should have hired in the first place.

There is a huge cloud over the program. Everything from the catastrophe of a season (in a down year for the conference), the Theo dissolution, the transfers, the yanking of scholarships, the reports of demeaning behavior toward players, etc. Just add losing Brown on to the list of what is now officially a dumpster fire.

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I've been quiet on expressing my take on WJ, but that cloud you reference, the apathy that has settled-in, players leaving for various reasons, our worst season in like forever, reminds me very much of our football program a couple years back...

I don't know if WJ can right the ship. After one season, I have serious doubts, as I did with SD in football. Delivering historically poor performance does that I suppose.

If WJ is not the guy, here's to hoping we make a JW-like hire. Just realized WJ (hoops), and JW (football)...

Cal89 said:

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UCBerkGrad said:

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Apathy has clearly set in. No one is upset that Cal loses a 5-star recruit.....to Nevada of all schools??

After last year's debacle (worst in my 40+ year lifetime), I wanted Cal to cut our losses and move on to a different coach. There were many on this board saying "but if he can land Brown". Well, he lost Brown to a guy Cal probably should have hired in the first place.

There is a huge cloud over the program. Everything from the catastrophe of a season (in a down year for the conference), the Theo dissolution, the transfers, the yanking of scholarships, the reports of demeaning behavior toward players, etc. Just add losing Brown on to the list of what is now officially a dumpster fire.

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If WJ is not the guy, here's to hoping we make a JW-like hire. Just realized WJ (hoops), and JW (football)...

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I'm pretty you sure you just landed on the key metric Williams used in the job search!

75bear said:

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Bummer - I wish Brown good luck at Nevada.

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Ditto!

UCBerkGrad said:

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Apathy has clearly set in. No one is upset that Cal loses a 5-star recruit.....to Nevada of all schools??

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Actually, I'm pretty psyched.... that he didn't go to Arizona (or any other conference school)!

I'll now root for Nevada as a side look.
What conference are they in? Who do they play?

UCBerkGrad said:

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There is a huge cloud over the program. Everything from the catastrophe of a season (in a down year for the conference), the Theo dissolution, the transfers, the yanking of scholarships, the reports of demeaning behavior toward players, etc. Just add losing Brown on to the list of what is now officially a dumpster fire.

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Well, not everything is bad.
We'll see if Bradley, Gordon, Kelly, Vanover can be a Phx rising from the ashes.
Hope springs eternal.

But getting paid a million a year for this job performance that you list? Geez!!!

These celebration vids by the Nv coaches was kinda fun.
Good for them.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/nevada-coaches-are-pumped-after-landing-commitment-from-five-star-jordan-brown/

FWIW
Pack, not Pac:

11/10/17
Idaho
W 88-64
(1-0)

11/13/17
Rhode Island
W 88-81
(2-0)

11/15/17
@ Santa Clara
W 93-63
(3-0)

11/18/17
@ Pacific
W 89-74
(4-0)

11/21/17
Davidson
W 81-68
(5-0)

11/24/17
@ Hawaii
W 67-54
(6-0)

11/29/17
Illinois State
W 98-68
(7-0)

12/02/17
@ UC Irvine
W 76-65
(8-0)

12/05/17
@ Texas Tech
L 82-76
(8-1)

12/08/17
@ TCU
L 84-80
(8-2)

12/17/17
Radford
W 77-62
(9-2)

12/19/17
UC Davis
W 88-73
(10-2)

12/22/17
Southern Ill.
W 86-64
(11-2)

12/23/17
@ San Francisco
L 66-64
(11-3)

12/27/17
@ Fresno State
W 80-65
(12-3)

12/30/17
New Mexico
W 77-74
(13-3)

01/03/18
Wyoming
W 92-83
(14-3)

01/06/18
@ Air Force
W 86-75
(15-3)

01/13/18
Utah State
W 83-57
(16-3)

01/17/18
@ San Jose State
W 71-54
(17-3)

01/20/18
Boise State
W 74-68
(18-3)

01/24/18
@ Wyoming
L 104-103
(18-4)

01/31/18
Fresno State
W 102-92
(19-4)

02/03/18
@ Colorado State
W 76-67
(20-4)

02/07/18
UNLV
L 86-78
(20-5)

02/10/18
San Diego State
W 83-58
(21-5)

02/14/18
@ Boise State
W 77-72
(22-5)

02/17/18
@ Utah State
W 93-87
(23-5)

02/21/18
San Jose State
W 80-67
(24-5)

02/25/18
Colorado State
W 92-83
(25-5)

02/28/18
@ UNLV
W 101-75
(26-5)

03/03/18
@ San Diego State
L 79-74
(26-6)

03/08/18
@ UNLV
W 79-74
(27-6)

03/09/18
San Diego State
L 90-73
(27-7)

03/16/18
Texas
W 87-83
(28-7)

03/18/18
@ Cincinnati
W 75-73
(29-7)

03/22/18
Loyola Chicago
L 69-68
(29-8)

concordtom said:

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UCBerkGrad said:

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Apathy has clearly set in. No one is upset that Cal loses a 5-star recruit.....to Nevada of all schools??

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Actually, I'm pretty psyched.... that he didn't go to Arizona (or any other conference school)!

I'll now root for Nevada as a side look.
What conference are they in? Who do they play?

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Unfortunately, Tom, you'll have to basically just check the box scores since Nevada is almost never on television.

Opened up my twitter and the first post was Jordan's announcement. Explitives followed.

Good Luck Jordan.

I don't know how much stock to put on GTMM, but an older stronger body will help cus we really need to shore up the 4/5.

Hopefully some of these 4* stick around after Wyking is fired so the new guy doesnt have to start from zero. Tho that'll be about the number if fans at Hass.

TheSouseFamily said:

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Unfortunately, Tom, you'll have to basically just check the box scores since Nevada is almost never on television.

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Actually, I'll forget about Jordan Brown in about 2 weeks.
...And remember him on March 1st when brackets are announced on Selection Sunday and I go to fill out my own.
Zzzzzzz

BearSD said:

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The best argument for hiring WJ in the first place was something like, "He's an ace recruiter and that's what matters, even if it will take him some time to grow into the rest of the job."

If WJ doesn't land elite recruits, what is the argument in favor of him being the Cal head coach?

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Wyking has 2018-2019 to prove that he can coach with a semi-decent roster (perhaps even a solid roster with the secret grad transfer big). Perhaps he proves that in 2017-2018, no one could have coached that team to wins. Or he shows that he is still in over his head.

TheSouseFamily said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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No bueno.

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Not the end of the world either. We're not gonna build the program with OAD guys like this but with 50-150 ranked 3-4 year players. I never thought Brown would end up at Cal but I am admittedly a little surprised he ended up at Nevada. As a program built on older transfers, he's gonna be a very young guy on that team playing with much older dudes. And given that many of their transfers have designs on the NBA and are running out of time and eligibility to show their skill, he may not be getting the touches and stats he wants playing with older, more dominant egos. Odd decision and odd process to get there. But good luck to him. I'm not shedding any tears personally.

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To bite Oaktownbear's argument from yesterday, this is a strawman argument. Who is going to take the spot we held for Brown in this class? Anyone? If the scholarship stays vacant all year, or goes to a walk-on as a reward, then this is a huge miss because we would be in the same spot next year if Brown leaves after one year. If it goes to a recruit this year, we won't know whether this is a huge miss for 3-4 years, when we can evaluate that recruit's career against Brown's. More, if it goes to another recruit this year, is there anyone out there worth a damn?

I actually agree with you, GMP. You're making the very practical point about the actual state of the roster and implications for next year. I'm not suggesting that, at this point in the cycle, there was a better option to using that slot. My point was more oriented around a mid-term/long-term recruiting philosophy. The impact of the OAD on a program's trajectory is usually minor and I'd rather build in the mold of other programs (like USC until that went sideways) of solid 3-4 year players. Too late for that obviously in this cycle with the remaining spot(s) though.

As an aside, I don't see Cal as an attractive option for OADs unless you're a unique character like Jaylen Brown. If you're a surefire NBA player and focused on that, the one year in school is a nuisance for the most part and a rigorous place like Cal is even a bigger nuisance. Makes all the sense in the world for someone like Jordan Brown to go to a 202nd ranked university with an 84% acceptance rate and spend all his free time focusing on getting ready for his career in the nba.

Best wishes to Jordan Brown. Sort of...

Congrats to a mediocre school like Nevada for landing a "big fish". Kind of...

As for the Golden Bears, I think some of you are being a bit too negative. If we get this grad transfer, that plugs the most glaring weakness on the roster. Him, plus Bradley, Gordon, Kelly and Vanover would make for a very good recruiting class. Throw in Paris Austin, who will be stepping onto the court for us, and it adds up to a significant influx of talent at all positions, joining a young core of McNeill, Sueing, Harris-Dyson and Anticevich. That's ten players who can play... and maybe Roman Davis takes another step forward.

Not bad, WAY better than last season. We double our win total, showing us to be a "program on the rise". After that, we will still need to progress, but the foundation will be laid.

I'm probably sounding a little TOO optimistic, all things considered (and we still need to succeed with that grad transfer), but maybe we need a little balance right now.

Not confident the big men coming in will be better than those we had last year.

Sure will be interesting to see how long we eat those two scholarships.
We've already lost out because of them.
Recruiting cycle #1 just got messed up.
Next year would be 2, then a third year recruiting cycle.
Wow, good going, to all (Jones, Watkins, Winston, McCullough). Lame situation!

oskidunker said:

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Not confident the big men coming in will be better than those we had last year.

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The new guys might not be better, but our most significant loss from last year was Lee/Okoroh. If we can approximately replace their contributions -- give or take -- we should still be a lot better, as we will have far more talent, experience and depth at the 1-3 positions.

I just wonder how Mussleman is going to handle his 15 scholarship players issue. That just a merely 2 over the allowed limit...

NVGolfingBear said:

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I just wonder how Mussleman is going to handle his 15 scholarship players issue. That just a merely 2 over the allowed limit...

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The Martin twins probably stay in the draft. Getting combine invites was huge for them and 90% of guys getting combine invites ultimately stay in the draft. But we'll see.

Doesn't bode well for UCLA either with Hands and Wilkes more likely to stay in the draft now too.