Chronicle story on basketball team makeover

GoCal80
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https://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Cal-head-coach-Wyking-Jones-gives-basketball-team-12952873.php

Jones seems to accept that you can't please everyone. I hope it works out for all involved.
joe amos yaks
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Just keep it positive, Coach.
Big C
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A half-way balanced article. A reader could see the title and read the first few paragraphs w/o ever getting into the Chauca/Winston/McCullough situation.

For true balance, if Chauca is going to "reach out" to the Chronicle, then maybe the article should also mention his transgressions that contributed to his situation and how Jones took the high road with those..
socaliganbear
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Big C said:

A half-way balanced article. A reader could see the title and read the first few paragraphs w/o ever getting into the Chauca/Winston/McCullough situation.

For true balance, if Chauca is going to "reach out" to the Chronicle, then maybe the article should also mention his transgressions that contributed to his situation and how Jones took the high road with those..

My guess is this isn't legal. And it's also just poor form.
Big C
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socaliganbear said:

Big C said:

A half-way balanced article. A reader could see the title and read the first few paragraphs w/o ever getting into the Chauca/Winston/McCullough situation.

For true balance, if Chauca is going to "reach out" to the Chronicle, then maybe the article should also mention his transgressions that contributed to his situation and how Jones took the high road with those..

My guess is this isn't legal. And it's also just poor form.
Ah, you're probably right. Chauca's showing the "poor form" right now, but, yeah, two wrongs don't make a right. Taking the high road at this point probably means ignoring him.
4thGenCal
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Big C said:

socaliganbear said:

Big C said:

A half-way balanced article. A reader could see the title and read the first few paragraphs w/o ever getting into the Chauca/Winston/McCullough situation.

For true balance, if Chauca is going to "reach out" to the Chronicle, then maybe the article should also mention his transgressions that contributed to his situation and how Jones took the high road with those..

My guess is this isn't legal. And it's also just poor form.
Ah, you're probably right. Chauca's showing the "poor form" right now, but, yeah, two wrongs don't make a right. Taking the high road at this point probably means ignoring him.
Coach Jones has certainly taken the high road considering the number of transgressions that Chauca committed. While I won't detail them, its outrageous that he reached out to the Chronicle to lambast our coach. Very easily, his scholarship aid could have been revoked. I will be at the games this season supporting the program and hope that we shall see substantial progress in competitiveness and conference wins.
concordtom
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Though they won't be allowed to practice with the team, Jones has promised to honor the legally binding scholarships given to McCullough and Winston if they choose to stay at Cal. He said he has even worked with his video department to create highlight reels and talked to coaches of lower-level programs in an effort to find transfer possibilities.

Cal could funnel payment to some other program to pay for taking them, freeing up our scholarship roster spot. (Cynic)
concordtom
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4thGenCal said:



Coach Jones has certainly taken the high road considering the number of transgressions that Chauca committed. While I won't detail them,
I don't know about Chauca, but what type of transgressions, if any, did McCullough and Winston commit?
concordtom
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The chronicle article leaves much info out of the story, leaves existing questions unanswered.
In other words, useless reporting, no?
fat_slice
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Meanwhile, both players contemplating leaving Nevada for the nba are returning next year. Along with some new recruit named Jordan brown.
helltopay1
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Dear Concord: If you give me a choice between having a serial killer who can play and a boy scout who can't play, I'm going with the serial killer. after all, as nancy Pelosi said, " we're all Gods children and we need to exercise some mercy and patience.""She actually said that.
concordtom
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Apologist comment.
Civil Bear
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concordtom said:

Though they won't be allowed to practice with the team, Jones has promised to honor the legally binding scholarships given to McCullough and Winston if they choose to stay at Cal. He said he has even worked with his video department to create highlight reels and talked to coaches of lower-level programs in an effort to find transfer possibilities.
What other choice would he have? I would hope he is doing what he can to entice them to leave.
Big C
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concordtom said:

4thGenCal said:



Coach Jones has certainly taken the high road considering the number of transgressions that Chauca committed. While I won't detail them,
I don't know about Chauca, but what type of transgressions, if any, did McCullough and Winston commit?
None that we know of. You're familiar with the whole story: What's your point?

I brought up Chauca and his transgressions because he has come forward to the media to talk about "his truth", but the entire truth paints him in a less flattering light.
Big C
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concordtom said:

The chronicle article leaves much info out of the story, leaves existing questions unanswered.
In other words, useless reporting, no?
The main point of the article was that Wyking Jones is, out of necessity, remaking pretty much his entire roster over the course of a two-year span.

It was not meant to be an in-depth investigative report on "ChaucaWinstonMcCulloughGate". And the fact that it is not indicates the level of interest and importance that this story has for the average sports fan in Northern California.
UrsaMajor
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Big C said:

concordtom said:

The chronicle article leaves much info out of the story, leaves existing questions unanswered.
In other words, useless reporting, no?
The main point of the article was that Wyking Jones is, out of necessity, remaking pretty much his entire roster over the course of a two-year span.

It was not meant to be an in-depth investigative report on "ChaucaWinstonMcCulloughGate". And the fact that it is not indicates the level of interest and importance that this story has for the average sports fan in Northern California.
It's amazing enough that the Comical even had an article on Cal (the only one in several weeks other than the Lindsay Gottlieb/SWA kerfluffle).

Winston and McCullogh didn't do anything other than play inferior basketball. Jones had every right (and some might say duty to the program) to let them know that there was no longer a place on the team for them. As for honoring the scholarships, yes he was required to, but my understanding is that he went a step further in assuring them that he wouldn't try to force them out of Cal (no matter what the idiots at CGB write).

Given his transgressions, it is amazing that Chauca would say anything at all...to anyone. Again, Jones is taking the high road.
socaltownie
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I LOL at the idea that the families were going to the REGENTS. Flip side - with the increasing number of hacks appointed it wouldn't surprise me to see some idiot on the board get involved.
oskidunker
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I can understand why they would do that.
The Bear will not Quit. The Bear will not die but Bart will continue to lie.
concordtom
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Civil Bear said:

concordtom said:

Though they won't be allowed to practice with the team, Jones has promised to honor the legally binding scholarships given to McCullough and Winston if they choose to stay at Cal. He said he has even worked with his video department to create highlight reels and talked to coaches of lower-level programs in an effort to find transfer possibilities.
What other choice would he have? I would hope he is doing what he can to entice them to leave.
The article does admit that that Jones created the situation by hastily recruiting two guys who were not ready for D1. But he also created it by trying to force them from the team the way he did.
He created the whole situation, the whole mess here, not them!

Of course he has no other choice but to honor.
concordtom
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Big C said:

concordtom said:

4thGenCal said:



Coach Jones has certainly taken the high road considering the number of transgressions that Chauca committed. While I won't detail them,
I don't know about Chauca, but what type of transgressions, if any, did McCullough and Winston commit?
None that we know of. You're familiar with the whole story: What's your point?

I brought up Chauca and his transgressions because he has come forward to the media to talk about "his truth", but the entire truth paints him in a less flattering light.
My point is that McCullough and Winston committed no transgressions.so why should they be run off?

How about this. If Jones were not in with other recruits like Brown, needing their slots, he would NOT have asked M&W to leave. But he was, and he did. And when they said "no, we are staying" then the narrative is that he maligned them and tried to make their lives hell, hell enough to leave, by saying, "okay then, you're not going to play, practice, or get any other benefits associated with being part of the team. You are a wart upon the team and banished." That's the way I see it played out, and that's f'd up, man!

So, Jones' errors:

1. Recruited Committed (per conference rules) 4 year slots to borderline guys.
2. Recruited Committed (per conference rules) 4 year slots to borderline talent who he thought he could easily excuse and replace if they were borderline, or if he could catch better fish.
3. Getting caught up in a bad PR position by playing his cards to excuse them in a way where he looks like the bad guy.

Now his rep is hurt and so is the team. He'd better hope the remaining guys can win big and save his fanny so that this gets forgotten. Otherwise, fatal errors.
concordtom
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Big C said:

concordtom said:

The chronicle article leaves much info out of the story, leaves existing questions unanswered.
In other words, useless reporting, no?
The main point of the article was that Wyking Jones is, out of necessity, remaking pretty much his entire roster over the course of a two-year span.

It was not meant to be an in-depth investigative report on "ChaucaWinstonMcCulloughGate". And the fact that it is not indicates the level of interest and importance that this story has for the average sports fan in Northern California.
Correct. As a run of the mill "oh, Cal basketball for first time in months in 200 words or less...", it was fine.
My apologies to the author.
Chapman_is_Gone
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concordtom said:

Civil Bear said:

concordtom said:

Though they won't be allowed to practice with the team, Jones has promised to honor the legally binding scholarships given to McCullough and Winston if they choose to stay at Cal. He said he has even worked with his video department to create highlight reels and talked to coaches of lower-level programs in an effort to find transfer possibilities.
What other choice would he have? I would hope he is doing what he can to entice them to leave.
The article does admit that that Jones created the situation by hastily recruiting two guys who were not ready for D1. But he also created it by trying to force them from the team the way he did.
He created the whole situation, the whole mess here, not them!

Of course he has no other choice but to honor.


All the outcome of a completely unqualified coach being hired by Mike Williams. And all entirely predictable.
Bear19
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Chapman_is_Gone said:

All the outcome of a completely unqualified coach being hired by [unqualified, Bear19 insert] Mike Williams. And all entirely predictable.
Chapman is spot on. At least Jones knows that drastic changes must be made and is not afraid to act on the hard choices. Regardless, if significant progress is not made this next season, Knowlton will have no choice but to replace Jones.
bearister
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helltopay1 said:

Dear Concord: If you give me a choice between having a serial killer who can play and a boy scout who can't play, I'm going with the serial killer. after all, as nancy Pelosi said, " we're all Gods children and we need to exercise some mercy and patience.""She actually said that.

Did you hear about the dead guy they found in a motel in Bakersfield in the bathtub with Lucky Charms and a sliced banana? The cops figure the cereal killer is good for it.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oskidunker
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The only question is what does the new AD think of all of this and how much more does he need to see before deciding a change is warranted.
The Bear will not Quit. The Bear will not die but Bart will continue to lie.
socaltownie
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oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
oskidunker
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concordtom said:

Big C said:

concordtom said:

4thGenCal said:



Coach Jones has certainly taken the high road considering the number of transgressions that Chauca committed. While I won't detail them,
I don't know about Chauca, but what type of transgressions, if any, did McCullough and Winston commit?
None that we know of. You're familiar with the whole story: What's your point?

I brought up Chauca and his transgressions because he has come forward to the media to talk about "his truth", but the entire truth paints him in a less flattering light.
My point is that McCullough and Winston committed no transgressions.so why should they be run off?

How about this. If Jones were not in with other recruits like Brown, needing their slots, he would NOT have asked M&W to leave. But he was, and he did. And when they said "no, we are staying" then the narrative is that he maligned them and tried to make their lives hell, hell enough to leave, by saying, "okay then, you're not going to play, practice, or get any other benefits associated with being part of the team. You are a wart upon the team and banished." That's the way I see it played out, and that's f'd up, man!

So, Jones' errors:

1. Recruited Committed (per conference rules) 4 year slots to borderline guys.
2. Recruited Committed (per conference rules) 4 year slots to borderline talent who he thought he could easily excuse and replace if they were borderline, or if he could catch better fish.
3. Getting caught up in a bad PR position by playing his cards to excuse them in a way where he looks like the bad guy.

Now his rep is hurt and so is the team. He'd better hope the remaining guys can win big and save his fanny so that this gets forgotten. Otherwise, fatal errors.
Great Post. I really enjoyed it. Puts everything in perspective and brings forth the reality of the situation
The Bear will not Quit. The Bear will not die but Bart will continue to lie.
oskidunker
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socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
If I am one of the parents and a lame duck AD or a temporary AD dont care, then I go up the chain of command. Obviously The Chancellor was of no help.Friends have emails to her continue to go in a black hole. Would be curious if she met with the parents and what transpired. She obviously supported the way Jones handeled this.

Its their right to pursue this to whatever level they feel appropriate

I suppose we could just say Go Bears and dissparage the parents and the players for not walking the company
Line. It is just possible that their education is more important than rolling over to support a coach who,s only goal is to win games.

Its not just one player. Its three, maybe four.
The Bear will not Quit. The Bear will not die but Bart will continue to lie.
UrsaMajor
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oskidunker said:

socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
If I am one of the parents and a lame duck AD or a temporary AD dont care, then I go up the chain of command. Obviously The Chancellor was of no help.Friends have emails to her continue to go in a black hole. Would be curious if she met with the parents and what transpired. She obviously supported the way Jones handeled this.

Its their right to pursue this to whatever level they feel appropriate

I suppose we could just say Go Bears and dissparage the parents and the players for not walking the company
Line. It is just possible that their education is more important than rolling over to support a coach who,s only goal is to win games.

Its not just one player. Its three, maybe four.
I am assuming that you and Concordtom have been in the conversations between Jones and the two players as well as had lengthy conversations with the Chancellor so that you can speak authoritatively about what WJ did or did not say and do. Other than the hacks at CGB, I have heard nothing that suggests that Jones is "making their lives hell." My understanding from those who are much closer to the department than I'm guessing you are is that Jones has been clear that he will NOT try to force the players out, but will try to help them find another program if they choose to go that route. Unfortunately, Deshon's father's public statements are making that harder for him.
socaltownie
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oskidunker said:

socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
If I am one of the parents and a lame duck AD or a temporary AD dont care, then I go up the chain of command. Obviously The Chancellor was of no help.Friends have emails to her continue to go in a black hole. Would be curious if she met with the parents and what transpired. She obviously supported the way Jones handeled this.

Its their right to pursue this to whatever level they feel appropriate

I suppose we could just say Go Bears and dissparage the parents and the players for not walking the company
Line. It is just possible that their education is more important than rolling over to support a coach who,s only goal is to win games.

Its not just one player. Its three, maybe four.
Sure it is there right but this is ABSOLUTELY what you don't want the regents to do. Slipperly slope - what about a parent going to the regents after an "unfair test" which could keep buffy out of Harvard Med cause she got a "B".

And yeah - it is about the same. Jones has been clear he is going to honor the scholarship if the kids want to stay. But playing BB is not a right, it is a privilege.

Now understand, I am NOT a Jones fan. We will be a single win team next year and then, thank god, changes will be made. But you have to let a coach make these sorts of decisions. The alternative will be much much worse.
UrsaMajor
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socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
If I am one of the parents and a lame duck AD or a temporary AD dont care, then I go up the chain of command. Obviously The Chancellor was of no help.Friends have emails to her continue to go in a black hole. Would be curious if she met with the parents and what transpired. She obviously supported the way Jones handeled this.

Its their right to pursue this to whatever level they feel appropriate

I suppose we could just say Go Bears and dissparage the parents and the players for not walking the company
Line. It is just possible that their education is more important than rolling over to support a coach who,s only goal is to win games.

Its not just one player. Its three, maybe four.
Sure it is there right but this is ABSOLUTELY what you don't want the regents to do. Slipperly slope - what about a parent going to the regents after an "unfair test" which could keep buffy out of Harvard Med cause she got a "B".

And yeah - it is about the same. Jones has been clear he is going to honor the scholarship if the kids want to stay. But playing BB is not a right, it is a privilege.

Now understand, I am NOT a Jones fan. We will be a single win team next year and then, thank god, changes will be made. But you have to let a coach make these sorts of decisions. The alternative will be much much worse.
SCT:

I assume you meant single DIGIT win team. If you genuinely believe we will go 1-31 next year, I am willing to bet you any amount of money including my house.
OaktownBear
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oskidunker said:

socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
If I am one of the parents and a lame duck AD or a temporary AD dont care, then I go up the chain of command. Obviously The Chancellor was of no help.Friends have emails to her continue to go in a black hole. Would be curious if she met with the parents and what transpired. She obviously supported the way Jones handeled this.

Its their right to pursue this to whatever level they feel appropriate

I suppose we could just say Go Bears and dissparage the parents and the players for not walking the company
Line. It is just possible that their education is more important than rolling over to support a coach who,s only goal is to win games.

Its not just one player. Its three, maybe four.


So if my kid doesn't make the high school team, I should take it to the school board. Got it.
oskidunker
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They made the team and were given 4 year scholarships. To answer your question, no.
The Bear will not Quit. The Bear will not die but Bart will continue to lie.
OaktownBear
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UrsaMajor said:

oskidunker said:

socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
If I am one of the parents and a lame duck AD or a temporary AD dont care, then I go up the chain of command. Obviously The Chancellor was of no help.Friends have emails to her continue to go in a black hole. Would be curious if she met with the parents and what transpired. She obviously supported the way Jones handeled this.

Its their right to pursue this to whatever level they feel appropriate

I suppose we could just say Go Bears and dissparage the parents and the players for not walking the company
Line. It is just possible that their education is more important than rolling over to support a coach who,s only goal is to win games.

Its not just one player. Its three, maybe four.
I am assuming that you and Concordtom have been in the conversations between Jones and the two players as well as had lengthy conversations with the Chancellor so that you can speak authoritatively about what WJ did or did not say and do. Other than the hacks at CGB, I have heard nothing that suggests that Jones is "making their lives hell." My understanding from those who are much closer to the department than I'm guessing you are is that Jones has been clear that he will NOT try to force the players out, but will try to help them find another program if they choose to go that route. Unfortunately, Deshon's father's public statements are making that harder for him.


CT thinks they have a 4 year right to play on the team, so not letting them play on a team they are not qualified for is putting them through hell.

I'm not happy that Jones missed this badly on recruiting 2 guys, but that is a competency issue, not an ethical one. If there is any evidence he is humiliating them or trying to make their lives miserable, I'd like to know because I'd want him fired immediately. Selecting his roster based on ability is not that. They are either Cal students in which case they take an awesome scholarship that they now get with no further work, or they are basketball players and they go somewhere else. It's a choice. Cal has lived up to its bargain whether it is the what these two hoped for or not.
SFCityBear
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UrsaMajor said:

socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

socaltownie said:

oskidunker said:

I can understand why they would do that.
I can't. The regents RARELY involve themselve in that kind of minutia and it is a damm good thing.
If I am one of the parents and a lame duck AD or a temporary AD dont care, then I go up the chain of command. Obviously The Chancellor was of no help.Friends have emails to her continue to go in a black hole. Would be curious if she met with the parents and what transpired. She obviously supported the way Jones handeled this.

Its their right to pursue this to whatever level they feel appropriate

I suppose we could just say Go Bears and dissparage the parents and the players for not walking the company
Line. It is just possible that their education is more important than rolling over to support a coach who,s only goal is to win games.

Its not just one player. Its three, maybe four.
Sure it is there right but this is ABSOLUTELY what you don't want the regents to do. Slipperly slope - what about a parent going to the regents after an "unfair test" which could keep buffy out of Harvard Med cause she got a "B".

And yeah - it is about the same. Jones has been clear he is going to honor the scholarship if the kids want to stay. But playing BB is not a right, it is a privilege.

Now understand, I am NOT a Jones fan. We will be a single win team next year and then, thank god, changes will be made. But you have to let a coach make these sorts of decisions. The alternative will be much much worse.
SCT:

I assume you meant single DIGIT win team. If you genuinely believe we will go 1-31 next year, I am willing to bet you any amount of money including my house.
Ursa,

I urge you to be more careful in betting your house on a Cal basketball team, or any college basketball team, winning more than one game in a season.

All that has to happen is a Cal coach or over-zealous booster getting caught slipping some cash to a player or some similar scenario, and the NCAA can forfeit or vacate any or all of Cal's wins, and you've lost your bet and your domicile.

And it has happened to us. In 1995 Cal finished 13-14 and the NCAA forfeited all our wins, leaving Cal with an 0-27 record. In 1996, Cal finished 17-11, but after the NCAA was through with us, we ended up 2-25. Since the early 1970s, when the NCAA began this form of punishment for certain recruiting violations, about 100 such penalties have been handed down, and over 30 of these penalties resulted in the guilty school ending up with a record for that season of only one win or no wins at all.

Maybe you can get SCT to agree to stipulate that the bet would be on final record before any NCAA penalty is imposed, but I doubt he would do that. I wouldn't. NCAA penalties are part of basketball.

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