Praise the lord and pass the ammunition. Was Counzo an ordained baptiste minister?

UCBerkGrad said:

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I really hope the Chancellor and/or the AD have reached out to Kidd to gauge interest in coming to Cal to be our coach. If he is receptive they should immediately fire WJ and bring JKidd back home.

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I'd like to remind you that in 1955, Pete Newell's first year at Cal, his Cal team had only one conference win, finishing 1-11 in the conference and 9-16 over all. It would be Newell's worst year at Cal, and the worst year he ever had in a 14 year career as a head coach in D1 at USF, Michigan State, and Cal. Even though Cal had 9 wins overall that season, compared to 8 wins for Wyking Jones' 2018 Cal team, I'd say Newell's season was worse than Jones's season last year, for the simple fact that Jones had very little talent on the roster, comparatively. In 1955, previous 2nd-team All-American Bob McKeen started at center, and future 1st team All-American Larry Friend started at forward. Cal had no players last season of that caliber, no All-Americans, no All-Conference players.

At the end of the 1955 season, some in the press and plenty of fans were calling for Newell to be fired. Fortunately for Cal and Cal fans, cooler heads prevailed, and there was no search conducted for another coach, and nothing from the administration to indicate that they were considering letting Newell go. The results over the next 5 seasons were 4 conference championships, and in the NCAA, two elite 8s, one NCAA championship, and one NCAA runner up finish. How many basketball trophies from the last 70 years do you think Cal would have in their trophy case, if they had fired Newell in 1955? The answer is one Montgomery's 2010 PAC-10 championship.

I have a lot of questions and a good deal of skepticism about Wyking Jones. I did not like what I saw last season. But to fire him now is ridiculous, and not smart, as Helltopay1 has already pointed out. He needs to have at least two seasons entirely with his own recruits, to be fairly judged, IMO.

I have a lot of questions about Jason Kidd as well. A great player, no doubt, but great players don't often make good coaches. Usually it is a player who was good, but not great, or one who sat mostly on the bench, and studied the game and the methods of the great coaches. If I was looking for a coach, I'd be looking for one who had some results as a head coach, and some results developing players as an assistant coach. Finally, because of Kidd's record of off-court anti-social behavior in a few incidents, he would have to demonstrate a lot of maturity for Cal to take a chance on that not happening while he was Cal coach. Cal has spent a lot of years since Campanelli and Bozeman, by hiring Braun, Montgomery, Martin, and Jones trying to maintain a squeaky-clean basketball program and resurrect Cal's reputation, and I'd expect that if they were to consider hiring Kidd, they would really look carefully into his behavior over the last 10 years or so.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Mr. Cohen: My assertion doesn't have one ounce of poetry. it is the synthesis of 81 years of playing and observing sports. when we were in the second grade, everyone could tell who were the athletes and who were thge stiffs. Spoiler alert: The athletes in the second grade were still athletes later in life and the stiffs were still stiffs . My assertion still stands. 5 % nurture. ( the mean, medium and the mode not withstanding)

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Dear Mr Helltopay,

You come on a bit strong and condescending with your rather unproven assertions.

concordtom said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Dear Mr. cohen: 'skills can be learned over a long period of time." I was a not a math major, but sustained success is roughly 95% nature and 5% nurture. ( nature includes pure athletic skills but also personality & character which are also largely acquired through DNA. Good coaching and a good support system make up the 5% nurture.

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I disagree with this exact characterization of nature vs nurture, particularly when it comes to character.
Ever see siblings who were very different from one another? Same genes, roughly.

There's more than goes into it than we understand!

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Siblings share 50% of their genes on average, so not really the same genes, roughly. Still I believe nurture is more impressive than some on this board do.

Dear Big C: I am continuously amazed and chagrined by the tendency of many posters who insist on reading things in posts which are simply not there. Read the post carefully. At no time did I suggest or even attempt to suggest anything derogatory about our sterling running back. i am pleased as punch that young Mr. Laird will be sporting the blue & Gold this year, or, for that matter, any other year. what I said was obvious. laird was underrated coming out of an area which was not heavily scouted, and, I implied that he probably would have gotten hopelessly lost on the depth charts if he had gone to schools which usually recruit 4 and 5 star running backs out of high school. In the Pac 12 alone, please see Washington, Oregon, USC, UCLA, Stanford, and to a slightly lesser degree all the other schools in the Pac 12. Read posts for what they actually say and not for what you think they say. Man, oh man, recent educational standards as they relate to reading comprehension , logic and informed analysis have deteriorated to levels which would have been unrecognizable in my day. Or, as Freud would say, " sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Translation : Stop looking for things which are not there. Thank you.

Dear Bear Prof: I know I read somewhere ( a long time ago in Psych class) that by the time a child is two years old, his/her personality/character, innate intellectual reasoning ability is pretty much baked into the cake, as it were. have psychologists changed their minds??I admit this is a possibility. My reading habits over the last few decades have pretty much excluded child development. So, if the consensus has changed more heavily in favor of nurture rather than nature, then, of course, I bow to recent developments in child development. my own experience has me leaning far more heavily toward nature in this eternal debate. 95/5 may have been too harsh.Perhaps 90/10??

Dear Ducky: Don't know how I missed mr. Lairds first name. I do apologize. "Screaming at the clouds"? Hint: Personal ad hominem attacks are usually a poor substitute for civil and reasonable debate and/or conversation. They are usually intended to halt rather than to augment a dialogue. As the English would say, "poor form."

Dear Bear Prof: At my tender age, it's becoming harder and harder for me to suffer fools gladly. if I sometimes overreact and appear too snarky I am always willing to apologize and re-enter the the skirmish on a more genial note. Perhaps sometimes I am too eager to make a point, and, in so doing, have a tendency to be more dogmatic when more nuance would serve better. Having said that, I also understand intolerance and impertinence ( especially among the younger members of this board) and will never be reticent in pointing that out. The older you become, being intimidated is simply not part of the equation. I read a poem once and the upshot was that an older man kicked a young brat down the stairs with a well-placed foot for being impertinent. The older you become, the easier it is to spot airs which younger folks sometimes bring to the conversation. There is no known cure for this malady. When Mark Twain was 14 he said that his Dad was a complete idiot. when Twain reached 21 he said he was amazed ' at how much the old man had learned in 7 years." Time for a night cap . Go Bears.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Bear Prof: At my tender age, it's becoming harder and harder for me to suffer fools gladly.

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I couldn't agree more.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Big C: I am continuously amazed and chagrined by the tendency of many posters who insist on reading things in posts which are simply not there. Read the post carefully. At no time did I suggest or even attempt to suggest anything derogatory about our sterling running back. i am pleased as punch that young Mr. Laird will be sporting the blue & Gold this year, or, for that matter, any other year. what I said was obvious. laird was underrated coming out of an area which was not heavily scouted, and, I implied that he probably would have gotten hopelessly lost on the depth charts if he had gone to schools which usually recruit 4 and 5 star running backs out of high school. In the Pac 12 alone, please see Washington, Oregon, USC, UCLA, Stanford, and to a slightly lesser degree all the other schools in the Pac 12. Read posts for what they actually say and not for what you think they say. Man, oh man, recent educational standards as they relate to reading comprehension , logic and informed analysis have deteriorated to levels which would have been unrecognizable in my day. Or, as Freud would say, " sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Translation : Stop looking for things which are not there. Thank you.

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Dear helltopay1: If you had read my post a bit more slowly and then gone back and read YOUR post to which I was responding, at some point it might have dawned on you that Mr. Laird's first name is Patrick, not Scott, and that I was being sarcastic (in a loving, fraternal way, of course) and you wouldn't have made insinuations about my reading comprehension that actually reflected on yours. Again, my Cal brother, note that it is with love that I gently chide you. Go Bears!

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Berkeley: you only gauge interest publicly when you are convinced that the current HC simply cannot function effectively either in the present or near future. Cal has not reached that point. Please fast-forward two years or so into the future. Reaching out now totally undermines staff and player confidence. In addition, it would totally destroy recruiting efforts as long as the uncertainty exists. There is a time and place for everything. Jumping ship before taking on water is usually not a good idea.

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LOL....yes, let's not disrupt the momentum of the program. Worst season I've witnessed in 40 years from a coach that was part of the previous regime who put us in this position.

Jason Kidd is a BIG name and would be a huge coup if we landed him (just as it was when we landed him as a player).

Hall of fame player, head coach at the highest levels of basketball, had winning record in 4 of his 5 seasons as HC (at Milwaukee of all places), there's not a recruit in the country that wouldn't take a meeting with him....oh yeah, and a Cal alum.

WJ hasn't earned the right to feel secure in his job. If the AD office wasn't lining up potential replacements they are not doing their job. Don't want your boss to undermine you? Don't suck at your job. If any of us were sh*ting the bed at work, you don't think your boss would be looking for a better choice?

Only question is does Kidd want to be a college coach and is he willing to entertain coaching at Cal. All it takes is a phone call to find out.

oskidunker said:

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Praise the lord and pass the ammunition. Was Counzo an ordained baptiste minister?

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I think that administration believed CM was a hire character person when he was hired.

Bearprof said:

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concordtom said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Dear Mr. cohen: 'skills can be learned over a long period of time." I was a not a math major, but sustained success is roughly 95% nature and 5% nurture. ( nature includes pure athletic skills but also personality & character which are also largely acquired through DNA. Good coaching and a good support system make up the 5% nurture.

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I disagree with this exact characterization of nature vs nurture, particularly when it comes to character.
Ever see siblings who were very different from one another? Same genes, roughly.

There's more than goes into it than we understand!

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Siblings share 50% of their genes on average, so not really the same genes, roughly. Still I believe nurture is more impressive than some on this board do.

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The way I look at it is that nature (genes, nutrition in utero and as an infant and young child) sets the range of possibility. Then nurture and inborn personality traits take over and determine how far the individual will go toward reaching their potential. If Einstein was confined to a white room with no stimulation or Marshawn Lynch was forced to sit on a couch and eat pizza all day as a child and teenager, neither would have reached their potential.

As far as getting 50% of your genes from each of your parents, that is true. However, there is huge potential for genetic variation between siblings. Its much more interesting and complex than the genetic makeup being 50:50 from each parent. The complexity comes from there being 20,000 human genes, which are present in two different copies in each of us. Our offspring randomly inherit one of these two copies from each parent, so the combinatorial effect is enormous - there is huge genetic variation between siblings except identical twins, which explains why siblings can look so different and have such physical characteristics.

UrsaMajor said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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Do you think Kidd would attract high level to turn the program around by coaching them up to the way he played? Or do you think the gpa requirement would be a stumbling block?

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I don't think players can be coached up to play the way Jason Kidd played, unless you start at a very young age. Court vision, intuition, leadership, aggression, along with unselfishness are possessed by the extraordinarily gifted, and most of those talents usually appears at a young age, perhaps 10 years old or younger. A great point guard can see all nine other players at once, and act accordingly, utilizing his teammates to break down the defenders and create easy shots for his team. Some of those talents can be improved upon by coaching perhaps, but most of them the player is born with. There have been great point guards, but Jason may have been one of a kind. All just my opinion.

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Good point, SFCity. As you said, a great point guard can see all 9 other players, but a Jason Kidd level point guard goes one step further: he knows where all 9 other players are and where they are going without seeing them. I recall a presser of his where he explained how he was able to make a no look pass to Murray who was trailing him on a break without seeing Lamond--something to the effect that since he saw where two defenders were, he knew that Lamond had to be trailing on his right about 10 feet behind him.

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Jason was sooo adept at seeing how a play would develop that Ryan Jamison (Jamo) would often be surprised by passes to him from Jason that would have led to an easy layup (or dunk). Unfortunately, many of these hit him in the face, since he wasn't expecting such a good pass. Finally, Jamo learned to almost always keep his hands up and ready to receive a pass.

Funny story. Quote heard from a guy who sat next to Ryan Jamison's HS coach or Father (can't recall) at a game when this development finally sunk in. . . "I've been trying to teach Ryan to do that for years. Kidd did it with just a few face passes".

Correction, BearProf: siblings share 25% of their genes on average (children share 50% on average with each parent).

UrsaMajor said:

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Correction, BearProf: siblings share 25% of their genes on average (children share 50% on average with each parent).

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For demonstration purposes, I recommend taking one of the ancestry DNA tests for yourself and your child and either one of your siblings or one of their siblings. Although the ancestry genes are only a very minuscule selection of genes, it reinforces Ursa's point as well as GoCal80's combinatorial impact.

As for HTP's advanced statistical analysis, I would hazard a guess that most (if not all) agree that both nature and nurture have a significant impact. I would also hazard a guess that he is probably alone in his assertion that the 95/5 distribution has any validity. But it is fun signing on Monday morning and reading his Dear BIer responses.

BeachedBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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Do you think Kidd would attract high level to turn the program around by coaching them up to the way he played? Or do you think the gpa requirement would be a stumbling block?

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I don't think players can be coached up to play the way Jason Kidd played, unless you start at a very young age. Court vision, intuition, leadership, aggression, along with unselfishness are possessed by the extraordinarily gifted, and most of those talents usually appears at a young age, perhaps 10 years old or younger. A great point guard can see all nine other players at once, and act accordingly, utilizing his teammates to break down the defenders and create easy shots for his team. Some of those talents can be improved upon by coaching perhaps, but most of them the player is born with. There have been great point guards, but Jason may have been one of a kind. All just my opinion.

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Good point, SFCity. As you said, a great point guard can see all 9 other players, but a Jason Kidd level point guard goes one step further: he knows where all 9 other players are and where they are going without seeing them. I recall a presser of his where he explained how he was able to make a no look pass to Murray who was trailing him on a break without seeing Lamond--something to the effect that since he saw where two defenders were, he knew that Lamond had to be trailing on his right about 10 feet behind him.

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Jason was sooo adept at seeing how a play would develop that Ryan Jamison (Jamo) would often be surprised by passes to him from Jason that would have led to an easy layup (or dunk). Unfortunately, many of these hit him in the face, since he wasn't expecting such a good pass. Finally, Jamo learned to almost always keep his hands up and ready to receive a pass.

Funny story. Quote heard from a guy who sat next to Ryan Jamison's HS coach or Father (can't recall) at a game when this development finally sunk in. . . "I've been trying to teach Ryan to do that for years. Kidd did it with just a few face passes".

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I remember when I was a sophomore in high school, a new kid from West Covina transferred to our school. He played point guard, and later made All-City for us. In our first scrimmage, I got open, but I thought he didn't see me, and didn't pay enough attention to him, and all of a sudden he hit me with a pass, and I never saw it coming until the last second, and I lost the ball. He pulled me aside and said, "If I'm looking at you, I'm probably not going to pass you the ball. But if I'm not looking at you, be alert, because I'm probably going to pass you the ball."

Years later, I bought a video of Pete Maravich in action, which included interviews with his teammates, and a couple of them said the same thing, that if the Pistol was not looking at you, he was probably going to pass you the ball.

Nowadays, in college, it seems that if you are open and the point guard is not looking at you, he is probably going to shoot the ball himself.

The No Look Pass. Whatever happened to it, in college at least? The great ones all used it, Jason Kidd, Bob Cousy, Magic Johnson and many more. There are so few great point guards coming out of high school now, or so it seems.

My only concussion in sports was in a scrimmage at Harmon when I didn't see a pass coming and it hit me in the side of the head.

My funny story: I have a high school teammate, Hiroshi, who played for many years after college in the Asian Recreation Leagues. One day, when he was about 50, he was in a game, and got open. A pass hit him in the face and broke his nose. When he returned home, his wife said to him, "Hiroshi, if you can't see a pass coming, it is time to retire." Which he did.

GoCal80 said:

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Kidd will never coach at Cal. Anyone who thinks that this is a possibility does not understand the premium that the administration puts on hiring coaches who have unambiguously clean character histories and high promise for promoting academic excellence.

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Anyone who actually wants this job will make that a priority. Look at what Dykes did while he was here on the academic side. Surely his mediocre APR results at LaTech or his stints at Texas Tech and Arizona didn't sell his academic cred. Academic excellence at Cal flops or succeeds when the administration makes it a priority and a requirement. As it relates to the HC, it mostly matters in that he either is willing to stick around and put up with it, or he isn't. In this case, I would imagine Kidd would stick around given he wants to coach in the Bay and we're Cal.

>"...One day, when . . . he was in a game, and got open. A pass hit him in the face and broke his nose. When he returned home, his wife said to him, '. . . if you can't see a pass coming, it is time to retire.' Which he did..."<

My name is joe amos yaks, and this is why I "retired" from adult (legends league) basketball 10 years ago. I never saw the ball coming.

The downside is that the episode destroyed my glasses.

The upside is that it didn't break my nose though it generated a lot of laughter on the sidelines.

Dearbig C: I am overcome with your 'gentle love." I can now meet my maker with easy mind and pure heart.

Dear SF City Bear: I, too, have tales of balls hitting you in the face or head. Cappy Lavin, of USF fame and Steve Lavins' Dad, was the playground director at my grammar school in the City. (San Francisco, of course) If he didn't feel that you were playing well or were not responding to his passes, he would hurl the ball at full speed to the back of your head, or simply, your back. Not exactly a pleasant guy. Brilliant? Of course: He taught English at Marin Catholic for many years before he retired.

Dear SF City Bear: What was the name of the transfer from West Covina? Did he eventually play 130's or varsity?

helltopay1 said:

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Dear SF City Bear: What was the name of the transfer from West Covina? Did he eventually play 130's or varsity?

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His name was Johnny Garber. He was All-City on Lowell's 112s, and then jumped to 130s, and played his last year starting for the varsity. He was not a great shot, and he got his pleasure just from setting other people up for easy baskets. He was a really good athlete. As a soph, the Lowell tennis coach invited him to come out for the tennis team, and he said he had never played before. Now, Lowell under this coach had won the City High School tennis championship every year and won state titles as well. The coach gave Johnny a racquet, and a star was born. he climbed up the tennis ladder to become our number one, and since he was too small to play basketball after high school, he became a tennis pro, and played on the pro tennis tour for many years.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear SF City Bear: I, too, have tales of balls hitting you in the face or head. Cappy Lavin, of USF fame and Steve Lavins' Dad, was the playground director at my grammar school in the City. (San Francisco, of course) If he didn't feel that you were playing well or were not responding to his passes, he would hurl the ball at full speed to the back of your head, or simply, your back. Not exactly a pleasant guy. Brilliant? Of course: He taught English at Marin Catholic for many years before he retired.

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not terribly relevant, but in the interest of keeping the record straight:

Pretty sure Lavin finished up his career as an English teacher at Sir Frances Drake High School. If he ever taught at Marin Catholic it was likely earlier.

mikecohen said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Dear Mr. cohen: 'skills can be learned over a long period of time." I was a not a math major, but sustained success is roughly 95% nature and 5% nurture. ( nature includes pure athletic skills but also personality & character which are also largely acquired through DNA. Good coaching and a good support system make up the 5% nurture.

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There are an awful lot of examples of guys who, in the pros, advanced from acceptable to All Star quality through improving skills they didn't have when they started, and without which they (like a lot of other guys) would not have stayed in the league for very long; and the same with guys in college who started out on the bench and wound up AA. One could say that such folks are examples of people whose high character is in their DNA; but, until the science gets to the point where such a statement could be backed up empirically, I would say that it deserves no more "provable truth" credit than any other poetically felt assertion.

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I understand some of your point, but most, or nearly all players do not start in the first year that they play in high school, college or the NBA. They sit on the bench. Mike Montgomery started only six freshmen in six years at Cal, by my count. Cuonzo Martin started 3 freshmen in 3 years. In Pete Newell's day, freshmen were not permitted to play varsity, but Newell only started four sophomores in his six year career at Cal. In Newell's first season, his worst at Cal, he started two sophs, Larry Friend and Mike Diaz. In Newell's second season, his second worst season, he started one soph, Earl Robinson. In the next four years, where Cal went to two elite 8s, won one NCAA title, and one runner-up finish, the only soph who started some games, was Bill McClintock, who shared the starting forward job with senior Jack Grout, who began the 1958-59 season as the starter. And McClintock was a 24-year old sophomore.

There are a few reasons players do not start in their first year. The biggest ones are youth and inexperience at the level of their new team. When player arrives at Cal as a freshman, he has never played D1 ball before, and there are usually some experienced older players who have played a year or two or more for this coach. A good coach, maybe most coaches, will start the older player, until he sees what the young player can do in practice and coming off the bench in cameos, before he will give the freshman a shot. Usually the main reason a coach will start a freshman is that there is an opening, like the opening which permitted Allen Crabbe to start. He had no competition. Monty started Gary Franklin (a mistake in retrospect) because the only other choice was Brandon Smith. Last year, Cal had holes at the wings and the point, and two freshmen started. Another reason a freshman might not start is the relationship he has with his coach. Many coaches will start a player just because he is tall, and some coaches value height over ability, leaving the shorter, better athlete on the bench. If he has an adversary relationship, like Montgomery may have had with Seeley, then it might affect the decision to start him or not. And there are occasions when some lesser coaches may not be able to recognize talent when they see it, and they leave a player on the bench who might be good enough to start and should be starting. The point is that it is often not that big a leap from sitting on the bench as a freshman to becoming a really good player.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear SF City Bear: I, too, have tales of balls hitting you in the face or head. Cappy Lavin, of USF fame and Steve Lavins' Dad, was the playground director at my grammar school in the City. (San Francisco, of course) If he didn't feel that you were playing well or were not responding to his passes, he would hurl the ball at full speed to the back of your head, or simply, your back. Not exactly a pleasant guy. Brilliant? Of course: He taught English at Marin Catholic for many years before he retired.

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Dear helltopay1,

I don't know about you, but we both played for Benny Neff, and I sure got hit with a lot of balls and whistles thrown at me in practices (none at the head, mostly at my back) along with a lot of well-chosen, colorful words to make his point. One day, as a freshman, we were running pivoting drills, and I pivoted on the wrong foot. I received a swift kick in the butt that sent me sprawling on the floor. I was in a state of surprise and shock, scared stiff about what was coming next. Ben came over and extended his hand, pulled me up off the floor. He turned and walked away, leaving me shaking. Then he turned around with this big grin on his face, and we all began to laugh. I never pivoted on the wrong foot again.

SFCB

I don't suppose you threw the ball at Coach Neff's head when he walked away?

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Mr. Cohen: My assertion doesn't have one ounce of poetry. it is the synthesis of 81 years of playing and observing sports. when we were in the second grade, everyone could tell who were the athletes and who were thge stiffs. Spoiler alert: The athletes in the second grade were still athletes later in life and the stiffs were still stiffs . My assertion still stands. 5 % nurture. ( the mean, medium and the mode not withstanding)

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I don't disagree with this, but I think I would modify it a little bit, by trying to define "stiff". Most players, great athletes or stiffs, and all those in between can improve with coaching. If you look at Mike Montgomery's players, most of them improved a little each year and were better as seniors than they were as freshmen. Look at Ben Braun's players, some improved, but most did not, IMO.

For example, Bak Bak was a stiff as a freshman. He improved ever so slightly each year. By his senior year he had developed and mastered a jump shot from the left side, along the endline, about 10-12 feet from the basket. He had learned how to get open for it, catch the pass, and he made that shot most of the time. And I remember the game against WSU that year, where player of the year candidate, Brock Motum, was unstoppable in the first half, no matter who Montgomery had guarding him. Then Monty put Bak into the game to guard Motum, and Bak shut Motum down for the rest of the game, and Cal came back to win. So Bak, who could not guard anyone as a freshman, now had gotten much better at defense. The other players on the team had improved as well, and Bak was still a stiff compared to his teammates. Bak Bak was still a stiff, but he was a better stiff than 4 years before.

Jerome Randle was another example. He had been a very good high school player. He was no stiff, but he did not play very well in his first two seasons under Ben Braun. He committed too many turnovers, couldn't defend very well, and didn't shoot very well either. With Montgomery's coaching, he improved in all three areas, and became a real star over his final two seasons at Cal.

I think coaching can make a difference in helping players to maximize their potential, whether they are a star or a stiff when they arrive.

joe amos yaks said:

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I don't suppose you threw the ball at Coach Neff's head when he walked away?

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Uh, no. He would have been ready for it. My dad had played for Ben Neff 25 years before. One day at practice, so the story goes, Ben Neff got angry and called my father a name which I can not repeat here, based on BI rules. My father knocked Neff flat on the floor with one punch. The next day, my father looks at the bulletin board, and he sees that Ben has promoted him to first string, and he started for the rest of his high school career. Maybe if I had socked Neff, I'd have been promoted too, and become a better player, but alas, it never happened.

I did learn, however, sometimes you have to hit a mule across the forehead with a two by four, in order to get its attention.

SFCityBear said:

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joe amos yaks said:

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I don't suppose you threw the ball at Coach Neff's head when he walked away?

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Uh, no. He would have been ready for it. My dad had played for Ben Neff 25 years before. One day at practice, so the story goes, Ben Neff got angry and called my father a name which I can not repeat here, based on BI rules. My father knocked Neff flat on the floor with one punch. The next day, my father looks at the bulletin board, and he sees that Ben has promoted him to first string, and he started for the rest of his high school career. Maybe if I had socked Neff, I'd have been promoted too, and become a better player, but alas, it never happened.

I did learn, however, sometimes you have to hit a mule across the forehead with a two by four, in order to get its attention.
__

I worked cattle and other livestock several summers on my uncles' UT farm and ID ranch when I was a kid. It gets their attention and causes them to focus and redirect.

You have to pick the appropriate stick. It does not always work with livestock or kids.

I nearly got trampled on a foggy slope in Spain when a couple of belled cattle got scared about my presence. A friend's border collie redirected them.

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Dear SFCB: Pretty impressive when you consider that Neff was on the boxing team at Cal.

dear Californium: I stand corrected.

Dear SFCB: when I was a senior, one day Neff yelled at me non-stop during practice. I walked off thge floor. I stayed away from practice for one full week while waiting for him to apologize. when I realized he had no intention of apologizing, I suited up and returned to practice. No one said a word. He never yelled at me again. Neff coached against my Dad so maybe he had a soft spot for me. years later when he saw me on the street, he forgot my name. I understand. The other day, I forgot the name of the girl I was dating. That was our last date.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear SFCB: Pretty impressive when you consider that Neff was on the boxing team at Cal.

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So was my dad. Years later, of course.