...but who cares. Hoops I sent back and this team has improved. Exhibition, take it with a grain of salt but the improvement was obvious.

Paris: a much more natural PG, with handle and leadership qualities that showed tonite. Upgrade. His presence alone allows the other players to play in more natural roles.

Bradley: standout of the evening. Showed a physicalness and a blend of inside and outside game that was impressive. He is strong enough to play right now. All the things we like about Harris-Dyson but with more strength and refined offensive skill.

Kelly: this kid could be good. If he continues to grow, he showed good instinct and toughness in the paint.

Justice: best player on the floor. Looks stronger this year, hope we see his game grow as well.

Shawn Bradley: wait, that wasn't Shawn Bradley?!


Defensive rotations and communication needs to improve and I expect that it will with the athletes this team has. Last year was bad, this team is better than last year by 7 wins.

This team can win 15 games.

Wow! We heard it here first.

Ghosts of Bozeman said:

---

...but who cares. Hoops I sent back and this team has improved. Exhibition, take it with a grain of salt but the improvement was obvious.

Paris: a much more natural PG, with handle and leadership qualities that showed tonite. Upgrade. His presence alone allows the other players to play in more natural roles.

Bradley: standout of the evening. Showed a physicalness and a blend of inside and outside game that was impressive. He is strong enough to play right now. All the things we like about Harris-Dyson but with more strength and refined offensive skill.

Kelly: this kid could be good. If he continues to grow, he showed good instinct and toughness in the paint.

Justice: best player on the floor. Looks stronger this year, hope we see his game grow as well.

Shawn Bradley: wait, that wasn't Shawn Bradley?!


Defensive rotations and communication needs to improve and I expect that it will with the athletes this team has. Last year was bad, this team is better than last year by 7 wins.

This team can win 15 games.

---

I agree with most of your analysis of the new players. Austin is definitely the most important player on this team. He definitely has size limitations and will struggle once he gets into the paint, but the entire team moves the ball infinitely better when he's on the floor. He is definitely the floor general they desperately need

And yes the defense looks bad, we had trouble communicating, knowing where to be, etc.

But that doesn't bother me too much, since this team is young and (in theory) should improve with experience.

What really bothered me was that there was a 3-4 min stretch with about 6 mins to play in the game where we gave 50% effort on defense, at best. We weren't hustling back, we weren't moving, we flat out weren't trying. We gave up about three open layups and a couple threes during this time, and it had nothing to do with being young. It was all effort

I know it was just an exhibition game, but this team hasn't earned the right to give half ass effort. Not against CSU east bay, not against anyone.

If this team is going to be even mildly successful, they are going to have to simply play harder than their opponents. Simple as that. They are going to constantly be outsized and outmanned. The only advantage they have is their speed. They are going to need to sprint back on defense, out hustle opponents for every loose ball and speed up the game as much as they can. If they don't give 100% effort, they have zero chance.

Fire Jones

Ghosts of Bozeman said:

---

...but who cares. Hoops I sent back and this team has improved. Exhibition, take it with a grain of salt but the improvement was obvious.

Paris: a much more natural PG, with handle and leadership qualities that showed tonite. Upgrade. His presence alone allows the other players to play in more natural roles.

Bradley: standout of the evening. Showed a physicalness and a blend of inside and outside game that was impressive. He is strong enough to play right now. All the things we like about Harris-Dyson but with more strength and refined offensive skill.

Kelly: this kid could be good. If he continues to grow, he showed good instinct and toughness in the paint.

Justice: best player on the floor. Looks stronger this year, hope we see his game grow as well.

Shawn Bradley: wait, that wasn't Shawn Bradley?!


Defensive rotations and communication needs to improve and I expect that it will with the athletes this team has. Last year was bad, this team is better than last year by 7 wins.

This team can win 15 games.

---

I liked some of the same things you liked, but am not nearly as optimistic overall. Defense may be worse than last season's poor defense with no Okoroh/Lee rim protection. Rebounding probably worse though maybe Kelly and Gordon can help.

Last year's team was *lucky* to win 8 games. Some very close wins including 2 against better opponents who were looking past us (which I loved, result-wise). Tons of massive blowout losses, including to bad teams.

As far as I can see, this season's squad has a chance of winning 15 games the same way, say, that the Utah Jazz have a chance of winning the NBA championship. Not impossible but probably not happening. 10 wins seems much more likely. And even that is not a sure thing.

OneKeg said:

---

Ghosts of Bozeman said:

---

...but who cares. Hoops I sent back and this team has improved. Exhibition, take it with a grain of salt but the improvement was obvious.

Paris: a much more natural PG, with handle and leadership qualities that showed tonite. Upgrade. His presence alone allows the other players to play in more natural roles.

Bradley: standout of the evening. Showed a physicalness and a blend of inside and outside game that was impressive. He is strong enough to play right now. All the things we like about Harris-Dyson but with more strength and refined offensive skill.

Kelly: this kid could be good. If he continues to grow, he showed good instinct and toughness in the paint.

Justice: best player on the floor. Looks stronger this year, hope we see his game grow as well.

Shawn Bradley: wait, that wasn't Shawn Bradley?!


Defensive rotations and communication needs to improve and I expect that it will with the athletes this team has. Last year was bad, this team is better than last year by 7 wins.

This team can win 15 games.

---

I liked some of the same things you liked, but am not nearly as optimistic overall. Defense may be worse than last season's poor defense with no Okoroh/Lee rim protection. Rebounding probably worse though maybe Kelly and Gordon can help.

Last year's team was *lucky* to win 8 games. Some very close wins including 2 against better opponents who were looking past us (which I loved, result-wise). Tons of massive blowout losses, including to bad teams.

As far as I can see, this season's squad has a chance of winning 15 games the same way, say, that the Utah Jazz have a chance of winning the NBA championship. Not impossible but probably not happening. 10 wins seems much more likely. And even that is not a sure thing.

---

Good point about the Jazz. They were overachievers because of defense and then a star in Donovan Mitchell. But I really didn't like our defensive effort yesterday. I mean it's just the one game, the first game. But we had all off-season to think about the joke of a season we had last year. I would think we would come out like gang busters, at least with effort. Looks like they weren't committed. I really hope that was an aberration. But it's been kind of the norm under Wyking, unfortunately.

Ghosts of Bozeman said:

---

...but who cares. Hoops I sent back and this team has improved. Exhibition, take it with a grain of salt but the improvement was obvious.

Paris: a much more natural PG, with handle and leadership qualities that showed tonite. Upgrade. His presence alone allows the other players to play in more natural roles.

Bradley: standout of the evening. Showed a physicalness and a blend of inside and outside game that was impressive. He is strong enough to play right now. All the things we like about Harris-Dyson but with more strength and refined offensive skill.

Kelly: this kid could be good. If he continues to grow, he showed good instinct and toughness in the paint.

Justice: best player on the floor. Looks stronger this year, hope we see his game grow as well.

Shawn Bradley: wait, that wasn't Shawn Bradley?!


Defensive rotations and communication needs to improve and I expect that it will with the athletes this team has. Last year was bad, this team is better than last year by 7 wins.

This team can win 15 games.

---

Agree that Paris is an upgrade at point, but his shooting form looked God awful. I'm not sure his playmaking abilities will make up for his shooting deficiencies.

I liked Bradley quite a bit too, but we'll have to see how bull rushing the basket works out against DI forwards.

Interior defense is going to be a real issue this year, which is probably why we saw so much zone last night. That's going to need to shore up in hurry if the Bears are to have any success this season.

KoreAmBear said:

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..... But I really didn't like our defensive effort yesterday. I mean it's just the one game, the first game. But we had all off-season to think about the joke of a season we had last year. I would think we would come out like gang busters, at least with effort. Looks like they weren't committed. I really hope that was an aberration. But it's been kind of the norm under Wyking, unfortunately.

---

KAB beat me to the punch! This is pretty much how I feel as well.

I was EXPECTING to see a hungry aggressive blowout, but limited impact from the freshman. I guess I'm pleasantly surprised that the Frosh are superior to D2 competition (which wasn't the case with half of last years class). However, I think I'm more disappointed by the lukewarm intensity.

There seems to be a huge difference in the amount of "buy in" from wilcox's team to wyking's team

ducky23 said:

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There seems to be a huge difference in the amount of "buy in" from wilcox's team to wyking's team

---

Maybe Wilcox can be convinced to come down to the gym, bring along Kunascyk, Weaver, and Laird, and they can give the basketball Bears a pep talk.

UCLA and Arizona seemed to intimidate Wilcox's team, so there that parallel.

BeachedBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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..... But I really didn't like our defensive effort yesterday. I mean it's just the one game, the first game. But we had all off-season to think about the joke of a season we had last year. I would think we would come out like gang busters, at least with effort. Looks like they weren't committed. I really hope that was an aberration. But it's been kind of the norm under Wyking, unfortunately.

---

KAB beat me to the punch! This is pretty much how I feel as well.

I was EXPECTING to see a hungry aggressive blowout, but limited impact from the freshman. I guess I'm pleasantly surprised that the Frosh are superior to D2 competition (which wasn't the case with half of last years class). However, I think I'm more disappointed by the lukewarm intensity.

---

I'm thinking our "defensive intensive" guys are Austin, Bradley and Harris-Dyson (DNP)

Average might be Sueing and McNeill

Not so much (for whatever reason, including recovery from injury): Anticevich, Kelly, Vanover, Gordon. That's four of our five bigger players. Ouch. Maybe Roman Davis comes in later and plays like his hair is on fire.

Looking forward to Smith IV and especially Thorpe... but that's a year away. Also then, Gordon will be more dynamic and Vanover will have stolen 20 lbs from Kelly.

One caution: let's not over-interpret one exhibition game. Could be a trend, or it could mean zilch. Look: we did better last night that Furd, who struggled against Sonoma State.

The guy next to me wondered if all the Hayward State players had the same last name. Evidently Woods is battling Cancer and they all have his name on their warm up jerseys

UrsaMajor said:

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One caution: let's not over-interpret one exhibition game. Could be a trend, or it could mean zilch. Look: we did better last night that Furd, who struggled against Sonoma State.

---

Amen to that.

UrsaMajor said:

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One caution: let's not over-interpret one exhibition game. Could be a trend, or it could mean zilch. Look: we did better last night that Furd, who struggled against Sonoma State.

---

I could really care less about the results of an exhibition game. It's the effort that bothered me.

If it's kentucky or duke or a more accomplished team. Whatever. They can do what they want in an exhibition game.

But a team that won 8 games the year before, to be giving such poor effort, is astonishing to me.

I've never seen duke play an exhibition game, but I would bet you would see more effort from those 5 star recruits than from our players last night. It's about coaching and respect. And the fact the there's no way someone like coach k would accept that level of effort, even in a meaningless exhibition game.

The players don't respect Jones. Lack of effort is the manifestation of that.

KenBurnski said:

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The players don't respect Jones. Lack of effort is the manifestation of that.

---

I'd be interested to hear how you know that. If they really "don't respect" him, why have they been so positive about the team atmosphere with recruits?

Because they know enough to not outwardly express displeasure?

Appreciate the analysis. I was also there. Good eye contact and engagement between players and coaches indicating to me that this young team has an established rapport with the staff. No lack of respect indicated on any fronts.

I'm going to root for this team out of love and respect for Cal hoops. The hopes that they fail and Wyking gets canned and the ghosts of the prior administration can be proven wrong doesn't sit with me.

I agree that this is a better team than last year.

Exhibition or not, a game is a game. And Haas is a beautiful place to be. Stoked the season is here.

Thanks Balizlyf - Surprising that people can be relatively negative toward the staff and team after the first exhibition game. Yes there were some lapses (defensive transition, and late close outs) but this is the first practice game, patience should be a given.
This staff is now very good and cohesive. I can absolutely say with observation (practices/social events) that there is mutual respect amongst the staff. This is an three year process and then (and only then) can an objective and time tested critique be fairly given.
To say that other coaches would have won 4+ more last year with the same players/staff is simply a huge stretch - for all the reasons covered earlier (no pg, youth, late recruiting hurdle with late hiring of HC etc).
This team will be over matched this season, but will compete and lack of effort will not be the reason. Its still woefully young, undersized and short 2 needed scholarships. Am I convinced we will be a top 5 team in our conf next season? no- but it is possible, but I do believe this staff next season, will be on equal footing with our other conf teams and our future is improving.
The recruits who have verbally committed are solid and hopefully our supporters exhibit reasonable patience. Go Bears!

Burnski, Have you taken a poll of the players? How many players do you know? This sounds like an opinion which is not supported by any facts. It sounds like you were influenced by the left wing media. Just make up a story.

I think this was an Exhibition game. You play a lot of guys . More than you would in a regular season game. You see what certain guys can do. Austin had 15 pts and 8 assists, a good line for a PG. Bradley needs plenty of minutes. He is qualified to be the starting SG, ahead of both McNeil and Dyson. Sueing is just as goood as last year. That is 3/5 of your starting lineup. This was expected to be a wing oriented team. And that is exacty what it is.

Nah. I look at the results. Glad our recruiting is "solid". Jones is a terrible head coach and Cal is paying him to learn on the job. I hope he goes back to the relentless full court press. That was at least entertaining to watch. It was funny seeing how few passes opponents needed to defeat it and then dunk. Enjoy the "growth" this season.

4thGenCal said:

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Thanks Balizlyf - Surprising that people can be relatively negative toward the staff and team after the first exhibition game. Yes there were some lapses (defensive transition, and late close outs) but this is the first practice game, patience should be a given.
This staff is now very good and cohesive. I can absolutely say with observation (practices/social events) that there is mutual respect amongst the staff. This is an three year process and then (and only then) can an objective and time tested critique be fairly given.
To say that other coaches would have won 4+ more last year with the same players/staff is simply a huge stretch - for all the reasons covered earlier (no pg, youth, late recruiting hurdle with late hiring of HC etc).
This team will be over matched this season, but will compete and lack of effort will not be the reason. Its still woefully young, undersized and short 2 needed scholarships. Am I convinced we will be a top 5 team in our conf next season? no- but it is possible, but I do believe this staff next season, will be on equal footing with our other conf teams and our future is improving.
The recruits who have verbally committed are solid and hopefully our supporters exhibit reasonable patience. Go Bears!

---

Overall, I was pleased (not negative), but I will re-iterate one CRITIQUE of the exhibition (along with a caveat). The fire/desire/intensity was lacking in a game where it should have been easy. At this point it is only one game (an exhibition at that), but it was something SOOOOO simple to demonstrate.

Caveat: Since it was an exhibition, I'm sure more emphasis was given to spreading around minutes to players such as Vanover, who will probably not get as many minutes during the season. I get it, that affects offensive flow and even defensive cohesion and rebounding.

Patience is warranted, but for the lapses you mentioned - not intensity. One thing this team lacked last season was intensity - it was young and lacked leadership. I'm HOPING that I will see more of it during games. It doesn't require practice or time, just desire and fire.

Right now my only WORRY with this program is complacency. And that worry won't go away because of assurances from behind the curtain. We all need to see it on the court during games. From my experience this can be very contagious if a couple of players set the bar high on intensity. I HOPE that the staff is making this point very clear.

KenBurnski said:

---

Nah. I look at the results. Glad our recruiting is "solid". Jones is a terrible head coach and Cal is paying him to learn on the job. I hope he goes back to the relentless full court press. That was at least entertaining to watch. It was funny seeing how few passes opponents needed to defeat it and then dunk. Enjoy the "growth" this season.

---

Hey Burnski. Your analysis is so "solid". I don't see much "growth" in your ability to follow Cal basketball. I really think you would be much happier do something else this winter.

Lol. Sure bud. I'll check back in around February to huff some more of the gas on this board.

BeachedBear said:

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4thGenCal said:

---

Thanks Balizlyf - Surprising that people can be relatively negative toward the staff and team after the first exhibition game. Yes there were some lapses (defensive transition, and late close outs) but this is the first practice game, patience should be a given.
This staff is now very good and cohesive. I can absolutely say with observation (practices/social events) that there is mutual respect amongst the staff. This is an three year process and then (and only then) can an objective and time tested critique be fairly given.
To say that other coaches would have won 4+ more last year with the same players/staff is simply a huge stretch - for all the reasons covered earlier (no pg, youth, late recruiting hurdle with late hiring of HC etc).
This team will be over matched this season, but will compete and lack of effort will not be the reason. Its still woefully young, undersized and short 2 needed scholarships. Am I convinced we will be a top 5 team in our conf next season? no- but it is possible, but I do believe this staff next season, will be on equal footing with our other conf teams and our future is improving.
The recruits who have verbally committed are solid and hopefully our supporters exhibit reasonable patience. Go Bears!

---

Overall, I was pleased (not negative), but I will re-iterate one CRITIQUE of the exhibition (along with a caveat). The fire/desire/intensity was lacking in a game where it should have been easy. At this point it is only one game (an exhibition at that), but it was something SOOOOO simple to demonstrate.

Caveat: Since it was an exhibition, I'm sure more emphasis was given to spreading around minutes to players such as Vanover, who will probably not get as many minutes during the season. I get it, that affects offensive flow and even defensive cohesion and rebounding.

Patience is warranted, but for the lapses you mentioned - not intensity. One thing this team lacked last season was intensity - it was young and lacked leadership. I'm HOPING that I will see more of it during games. It doesn't require practice or time, just desire and fire.

Right now my only WORRY with this program is complacency. And that worry won't go away because of assurances from behind the curtain. We all need to see it on the court during games. From my experience this can be very contagious if a couple of players set the bar high on intensity. I HOPE that the staff is making this point very clear.

---

Ironically the one guy that was intense last year, we wanted to give him de-caf - our man Don. Actually JHD is intense as well. He is the Jorge of this team.

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

Thanks Balizlyf - Surprising that people can be relatively negative toward the staff and team after the first exhibition game. Yes there were some lapses (defensive transition, and late close outs) but this is the first practice game, patience should be a given.
This staff is now very good and cohesive. I can absolutely say with observation (practices/social events) that there is mutual respect amongst the staff. This is an three year process and then (and only then) can an objective and time tested critique be fairly given.
To say that other coaches would have won 4+ more last year with the same players/staff is simply a huge stretch - for all the reasons covered earlier (no pg, youth, late recruiting hurdle with late hiring of HC etc).
This team will be over matched this season, but will compete and lack of effort will not be the reason. Its still woefully young, undersized and short 2 needed scholarships. Am I convinced we will be a top 5 team in our conf next season? no- but it is possible, but I do believe this staff next season, will be on equal footing with our other conf teams and our future is improving.
The recruits who have verbally committed are solid and hopefully our supporters exhibit reasonable patience. Go Bears!

---

Overall, I was pleased (not negative), but I will re-iterate one CRITIQUE of the exhibition (along with a caveat). The fire/desire/intensity was lacking in a game where it should have been easy. At this point it is only one game (an exhibition at that), but it was something SOOOOO simple to demonstrate.

Caveat: Since it was an exhibition, I'm sure more emphasis was given to spreading around minutes to players such as Vanover, who will probably not get as many minutes during the season. I get it, that affects offensive flow and even defensive cohesion and rebounding.

Patience is warranted, but for the lapses you mentioned - not intensity. One thing this team lacked last season was intensity - it was young and lacked leadership. I'm HOPING that I will see more of it during games. It doesn't require practice or time, just desire and fire.

Right now my only WORRY with this program is complacency. And that worry won't go away because of assurances from behind the curtain. We all need to see it on the court during games. From my experience this can be very contagious if a couple of players set the bar high on intensity. I HOPE that the staff is making this point very clear.

---

Ironically the one guy that was intense last year, we wanted to give him de-caf - our man Don. Actually JHD is intense as well. He is the Jorge of this team.

---

I hope you are right. Jorge the freshman was over-aggressive, leading to unnecessary fouls, and limiting his minutes. He got a whole lot better over the next three years at both ends of the floor. I didn't think JHD the freshman was in freshman Jorge's class, but he wasn't in game shape until near the end of the season, due to his illness at the start of the season. He looks more athletic than Jorge, and I expect him to be a lot better tjhis season. Much of it will depend on Wyking Jones putting him in situations where he can be successful and help the team. He needs to cut down on turnovers as well.

"lack of effort?" Funny---I was there--I never saw a lack of effort--If you play for 40 minutes at a fast pace, you will have moments where one or two players are caught napping or are caught out of position, but no player wants to tank on his home floor. The tape will catch you and you are in danger of losing playing time. don't confuse being out of position with tanking.

helltopay1 said:

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"lack of effort?" Funny---I was there--I never saw a lack of effort--If you play for 40 minutes at a fast pace, you will have moments where one or two players are caught napping or are caught out of position, but no player wants to tank on his home floor. The tape will catch you and you are in danger of losing playing time. don't confuse being out of position with tanking.

---

You may very well be right. I was out of town, so watched the arena feed online. I actually enjoyed the fact that there were no commercials or commentators. But it may also have affected my interpretation of the players. But my concern is more with intensity (emotional desire) then effort (physical exertion). Again - real hard to determine unless you can see it in their eyes (and some players are just more laid back).

Also, the intensity issue was a big negative for me last season - so this may just be a hangover.

Ghosts of Bozeman said:

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This team can win 15 games.

---

Only if it learns how to play defense with limited bigs.

KoreAmBear said:

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Ironically the one guy that was intense last year, we wanted to give him de-caf - our man Don. Actually JHD is intense as well. He is the Jorge of this team.

---

There are no Jorges other than Jorge. Harris-Dyson isn't close to being that type of player.

Yet Moraga bet me a dozen top dogs that we c ou uld win double digits. Ain't happening no ing. I say 2 games in confernce......maybe

What if Vanover plays like Thomas Welch?